Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

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bodhi
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby bodhi » 10 Feb 2016 17:17

Singha wrote:one missile door open. I dont think this was posted earlier
Image


The hatch looks to be behind the bulge. Could it be a hatch for personnel/stores rather than the missile door?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Sid » 10 Feb 2016 17:47

^^^
Singh Saab, those are folks standing in a row. There are few standing in front as well.

I am sure no one will have silo so close to reactor.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby vina » 10 Feb 2016 18:32

Singha wrote:Image


Sweet!

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Karan M » 10 Feb 2016 21:02

Thats the water shower ceremony Arihant had when it first went in..

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Kartik » 11 Feb 2016 04:27

Awesome ! :D

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby sohamn » 11 Feb 2016 05:28

I don't think that is a missile door, as it seems to be behind the hump. May be it is a replenishment / supply door.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby pragnya » 11 Feb 2016 09:00

sohamn wrote:I don't think that is a missile door, as it seems to be behind the hump. May be it is a replenishment / supply door.


no. as sid correctly noted, it is a group of people standing together. like here.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Cybaru » 11 Feb 2016 12:05

Singha wrote:it also has a black and white spots pattern on the masts usually seen in subs that operate in arctic conditions for unknown reasons. the akula and no other indian sub has it.
Image

like this 688 sub

Image


They may have used a russian supplier for the mast.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 11 Feb 2016 12:08

I have not seen any russian subs including the barents sea ones use this mast pattern. have only seen in US SSNs and german U-boat comics of ww2 era.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby member_28108 » 11 Feb 2016 17:32

It is a form of ship camouflage

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 11 Feb 2016 20:14

I have a spider feel Arihant is going to release K4 and K15 very soon

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Aditya G » 15 Feb 2016 23:58

Arihant model @ IFR?

Image

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby SaiK » 16 Feb 2016 00:03

something for us to watch out in the near future
if darpa can do it...

http://gizmodo.com/darpa-s-new-autonomo ... 1758778455

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 16 Feb 2016 06:43

that model looks like a bunch of schoolkids were asked to do.
Borei class sail + delta class hump != Arihant

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Nitesh » 16 Feb 2016 06:53

Singha wrote:I have a spider feel Arihant is going to release K4 and K15 very soon

GD, already done
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 935508.cms

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby shiv » 16 Feb 2016 08:22

Singha wrote:that model looks like a bunch of schoolkids were asked to do.
Borei class sail + delta class hump != Arihant

True. But it is a thousand times easier for the uninitiated novice to relate to what is inside a submarine from that model than any of these:

http://www.rocketfin.com/blogpics-2009/ ... ington.jpg
http://americanhistory.si.edu/subs/cons ... utaway.jpg
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/export/i ... utaway.gif

The biggest fault is in not having a disclaimer with the model that explains to the sensitive, informed and sophisticated viewer that this model is "Stylized and not to scale"

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby JE Menon » 16 Feb 2016 14:33

Singha wrote:that model looks like a bunch of schoolkids were asked to do.
Borei class sail + delta class hump != Arihant


The quality of our exhibits at the IFR exhibition was atrocious, to put it mildly. There was one naval gun model, damned thing like an upturned cooking vessel (dented at that). Paper labels that were stuck on on exhibits were peeling off. Bloody mess.

These are marketing events, and if we can't sort this elementary shit out, it won't inspire any confidence in any outside buyer for any of the bits and pieces we manufacture. Shameful displays, except for a few. And the cost for a proper one is peanuts.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Karan M » 16 Feb 2016 18:54

Were you there JEM? Any pics of infoboards etc. Apart from the displays anything of note or interest?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby JE Menon » 16 Feb 2016 21:09

Nope wasn't there KM.

I saw it in a link of photos - lots of them. Not sure where it was posted anymore, but it's on BRF. Someone's blog. Toe-curling stuff. Quality is a mindset we need to cultivate. I'm not talking about having fancy stuff, but what we have should be at least well maintained and orderly...

Will try to find and post it again here.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby hanumadu » 23 Feb 2016 06:34

India’s first nuclear submarine INS Arihant ready for operations, passes deep sea tests

Multiple officials closely associated with the project to operationalize the INS Arihant nuclear missile submarine have confirmed to ET that the indigenously-built boat is now fully-operational and over the past few months, several weapon tests have taken place in secrecy that have proven the capabilities of the vessel.


The Arihant, which is the first of five nuclear missile submarines or SSBNs planned for induction, has also undergone deep sea dives off Vishakhapatnam where it was build. A Russian diving support ship —the RFS Epron that arrived on October 1 — has been accompanying the Arihant on its deep sea dives and launch tests, officials told ET.


The Navy has managed to keep under wraps several weapon launch tests from the Arihant over the past five months. The submarine is to be equipped with K 15 (or BO-5) shortrange missiles with a range of over 700 km and the K 4 ballistic missile with a range of 3,500 km. "It has passed all tests and in many things has surpassed our expectations.

Technically the submarine can now be commissioned at any time," a senior official said. Sources told ETthat the commissioning date could be asearly as next month if the Modi government desires. A communication facility to interact with the submarine has already been commissioned into the Navy.


The Navy's Submarine Design Bureau is also presently working on a new class of nuclear powered attack submarines (SSNs) that it hopes to induct within the next 15 years. The plan is to build at least six SSNs in India, with financial sanction given last year for the project that could cost upwards of Rs 90,000 crore.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby srai » 23 Feb 2016 06:56

Arihant would be a good size for future SSN design. It would be able to carry 12 Nirbhay SLCM for land attack roles.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Cain Marko » 23 Feb 2016 07:00

Fab news this...now for the lca sps to be handed over

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Yagnasri » 23 Feb 2016 07:42

But there is no new reactor-related news. The 15 year time frame for SSN may include devlopment of the new reactor also. In any even we do not know most of the facts relating to Arihant anyway. So there may not a any need for a new reactor design also.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby ShauryaT » 23 Feb 2016 07:48

srai wrote:Arihant would be a good size for future SSN design. It would be able to carry 12 Nirbhay SLCM for land attack roles.
Land attack would only be a secondary role and can be fulfilled by a slow moving sub carrying long range SLCM, such as the Arihant. The primary idea of the SSN is to be fast, to be able to intercept other subs and surface assets. Sustained speeds in excess of 30+ knots is a must. It is all about propulsion. BTW: The US converted two of their SSBN to SLCM carrying subs, instead of building new SSN's to cater to the land attack roles. For our SSN's the thing to watch out for is propulsion, where, who, how and when.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 23 Feb 2016 07:57

>> A Russian diving support ship —the RFS Epron that arrived on October 1 — has been accompanying the Arihant on its deep sea dives and launch tests, officials told ET.

that explains the presence of this ship to represent Russia in the IFR. it is homeported in vizag :mrgreen:

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby sum » 23 Feb 2016 08:23

^^ Any info on the IN plan on this front ( DSV) ?

Surely, we cant depend on the Russians as more and more of our babies come online

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Austin » 23 Feb 2016 08:30


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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby raghava » 23 Feb 2016 08:34

RFS Epron departing for India for unspecified "international military cooperation" was reported in September 2015 itself. Somehow missed it in spite of google alerts.

Some good details about Russian DSRVs in the link below

http://7fbtk.blogspot.in/2015/09/musical-submarine-rescue-ships.html

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Feb 2016 09:25

India’s first nuclear submarine INS Arihant ready for operations, passes deep sea tests

Multiple officials closely associated with the project to operationalize the INS Arihant nuclear missile submarine have confirmed to ET that the indigenously-built boat is now fully-operational and over the past few months, several weapon tests have taken place in secrecy that have proven the capabilities of the vessel.
.
:rotfl: :D :lol:

Should it be both torpedos for self defense, some K-15 and hopefully K-4

The Navy has managed to keep under wraps several weapon launch tests from the Arihant over the past five months. The submarine is to be equipped with K 15 (or BO-5) shortrange missiles with a range of over 700 km and the K 4 ballistic missile with a range of 3,500 km. "It has passed all tests and in many things has surpassed our expectations.
.


Mogambo Kush Hua

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby shiv » 23 Feb 2016 09:37

Cain Marko wrote:Fab news this...now for the lca sps to be handed over

Should I poop on the party and say it was Manu Pubby who wrote that.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby SSridhar » 23 Feb 2016 09:53

Whoever wrote that article, if after nearly 6 months, Arihant was not close to commissioning, that would have been a concern. We must shortly know if the news was accurate or not.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby raghava » 23 Feb 2016 10:05

sum wrote:^^ Any info on the IN plan on this front ( DSV) ?


It appears it is still awaiting clearance from the CCS

As of today, IN has an agreement with the US Navy to fly in a "rescue flyaway kit" within 72 hours. This appears to be a last resort arrangement if IN can't manage on their own with their INS Nireekshak.

2 DSRVs are planned one for the east and west coasts respectively from James Fisher Defence but these are awaiting clearance from CCS.

Meanwhile Telegraph India has this to say on Dec 9th 2015

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1151209/jsp/nation/story_57487.jsp#.VsvbhVt96M8

The Indian Navy has contracted a Nato Submarine Rescue System for its ageing fleet of underwater boats and a Russian deep submergence rescue vessel for its indigenous nuclear submarine, the Arihant, that is being put through trials currently.


The multiple arrangements for rescue are borne of two submarine accidents in August 2013 and February 2014.


The trials of the Arihant, that is planned as the third pillar of the Indian strategic establishment's "nuclear triad", had been rescheduled earlier because of, among other reasons, the absence of the submarine rescue system. It has a crew of 120.

In August-September this year, the navy quietly contracted the Russians, who have been helping in the Arihant project for years, for a rescue system. The system was recently tried, most probably at the "Escape Training School" near the Eastern Naval Command headquarters in Visakhapatnam where the Arihant is based, as is the INS Chakra.


The blog link that I had earlier posted also corroborates the "August-September" date

http://7fbtk.blogspot.in/2015/09/musical-submarine-rescue-ships.html

On August 31, the Russian Ministry of Defense announced that Black Sea Fleet Prut-class submarine rescue ship "EPRON" had departed the Black Sea en route to India for unspecified "international military cooperation" with that country's naval forces.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Vivek K » 23 Feb 2016 10:10

What is the status of the Aridhaman? This would give a tremendous boost to that boat's commissioning.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 23 Feb 2016 10:32

the DSRV thing has been a long running sore on our backs. it was brought up atleast as early as 1999. another hawk kind of deal or perhaps hidden pressure by massa on other vendors to keep our sub fleet down (as in artillery)

US and UK operate the same family of Scorpio ROV, deployed as a C17able module with wire and a control room inside a container. obviously they are willing to help if they can, but not to sell and empower the natives

see pics here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpio_ROV

here is another one from UK, now leased by Aus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LR5

UK seems like a world leader in this, perhaps based off its offshore oil industry work .

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby srai » 23 Feb 2016 10:43

ShauryaT wrote:
srai wrote:Arihant would be a good size for future SSN design. It would be able to carry 12 Nirbhay SLCM for land attack roles.
Land attack would only be a secondary role and can be fulfilled by a slow moving sub carrying long range SLCM, such as the Arihant. The primary idea of the SSN is to be fast, to be able to intercept other subs and surface assets. Sustained speeds in excess of 30+ knots is a must. It is all about propulsion. BTW: The US converted two of their SSBN to SLCM carrying subs, instead of building new SSN's to cater to the land attack roles. For our SSN's the thing to watch out for is propulsion, where, who, how and when.


Look up Virginia-class SSN. All SSNs carry a load of SLCM to my knowledge either fired from torpedo tube or in VL launchers (in newer designs like Virginia).
Image

Regarding speed, no SSN will maintain a sustained speed of 30+ knots! Everyone will hear you from miles and miles ;) At most, they will go top speed for short duration. The main advantage of nuclear propulsion is for "infinite" range (but limited in duration by food & supplies available for crew). Most of the time SSN and SSBNs approach their designated patrol areas and then lay there silently at speeds of 5 to 10 knots.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby nits » 23 Feb 2016 11:01

India’s first nuclear submarine INS Arihant ready for operations, passes deep sea tests

India's first nuclear armed submarine is now ready for full fledged operations, having passed several deep sea diving drills as well as weapons launch tests over the past five months and a formal induction into the naval fleet is only a political call away.
Multiple officials closely associated with the project to operationalize the INS Arihant nuclear missile submarine have confirmed to ET that the indigenously-built boat is now fully-operational and over the past few months, several weapon tests have taken place in secrecy that have proven the capabilities of the vessel.
The Arihant, which is the first of five nuclear missile submarines or SSBNs planned for induction, has also undergone deep sea dives off Vishakhapatnam where it was build. A Russian diving support ship —the RFS Epron that arrived on October 1 — has been accompanying the Arihant on its deep sea dives and launch tests, officials told ET.

The Epron — a Prut class submarine rescue vessel — was also the Russian representation for the recently concluded International Fleet Review (IFR) in Vishakhapatnam. India does not currently possess a submarine rescue vessel of this class - a vital requirement during weapon firing tests where all possibilities need to be catered for.

The Arihant incidentally did nottake part in the IFR even though it was ready due to security concerns. The presence of 24 foreign warships, equipped with sensors and equipment that could pick up vital electronic intelligence being the main deterrent.
The Navy has managed to keep under wraps several weapon launch tests from the Arihant over the past five months. The submarine is to be equipped with K 15 (or BO-5) shortrange missiles with a range of over 700 km and the K 4 ballistic missile with a range of 3,500 km. "It has passed all tests and in many things has surpassed our expectations.
Technically the submarine can now be commissioned at any time," a senior official said. Sources told ETthat the commissioning date could be as early as next month if the Modi government desires. A communication facility to interact with the submarine has already been commissioned into the Navy.
At present, work is already in progress on two more Arihant class submarines at the Ship Building Center (SBC) in Vishakhapatnam which will be larger and more advanced than the first boat. The navy is also accelerating work on INS Varsha - a new strategic naval base with underground pens on the Eastern Coast near Kakinada - where the nuclear assets would be based.
The Navy's Submarine Design Bureau is also presently working on a new class of nuclear powered attack submarines (SSNs) that it hopes to induct within the next 15 years. The plan is to build at least six SSNs in India, with financial sanction given last year for the project that could cost upwards of Rs 90,000 crore. At present, the only nuclear powered platform in service is the INS Chakra, a Akula class SSN on lease from Russia.

Last edited by nits on 23 Feb 2016 11:11, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 23 Feb 2016 11:03

well bigger the size of VL + TT weapons bigger the vessel and more reactor power needed.
we are quite far from producing no-refueling 30 yr lifecycle reactors of the virginia.

for us, the gating factor is for a given usable volume constraint, how powerful can be we make the reactor. this puts a bound on the size and top speed of the sub. desired size -> impacts speed -> impacts reactor power <-- impacted by our tech level

I would say arihant size with a more powerful reactor can be used as our SSN also.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Kailash » 23 Feb 2016 11:07

^^^
May be a tested miniaturized reactor is what we should ask from Americans - not an untested EMALS and AC designs.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Philip » 23 Feb 2016 11:46

The Epron was present at the IFR.Spotted as mentioned in that td. If it stays in our waters for a lengthy period,then we may have worked out a deal with Ru ,lease,whatever,as we also operate another ru leased Akula-2. The absence of a dedicated rescue vessel has been a great decision failure of the GOI/MOD/Cong govts.,which this govt. should rectify asap. The British have an excellent sub rescue vessel which if memory serves me right,can be airlifted by a heavy transport too.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Vivek K » 23 Feb 2016 12:37

What is the status of the Aridhaman? This would give a tremendous boost to that boat's commissioning.


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