Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

[Philip]

News X has a short clip of the sub leaving harbour when it was on its sea trials. It should be on U-toob.

[Varoon Shekhar]

Yes, I should have known not to bring that up- but I was puzzled and a little irritated by the Zee article. I looked back into BR under this thread, and there was an informative discussion with Karan, T.Sarkar, Philip and others. The on board reactor is indeed Indian, but Russians helped on fitting it into the submarine, and consulted generally on the whole submarine.

[Rakesh]

News X has a short clip of the sub leaving harbour when it was on its sea trials. It should be on U-toob.

This is the video Philip was talking about...has a video grab + the video itself...

TV Station Gets 1st Video Images Of India's Arihant SSBN
http://rpdefense.over-blog.com/2014/12/ ... -ssbn.html

This is a nice silhouette of the Arihant...

[naruto]

Gurus, the nuclear reactor of Arihant, is it 83 MWTh or 83 MWe ?

[Paul]

Next they will have to bite the bullet of stop applying polish to the nukes and actually mate them with the missile.

Then ready a base Karwar, Vishakhapatnam etc. enhance security, drive out civilians from nearby airport.

Launch codes, procedures, re-write SOPs etc...no end to it. Sigh!

[prasannasimha]

83 MW (111,305 hp) as per Wikipedia so must be 83 MWe ie ouput if I am right

[prasannasimha]

Next they will have to bite the bullet of stop applying polish to the nukes and actually mate them with the missile.

Then ready a base Karwar, Vishakhapatnam etc. enhance security, drive out civilians from nearby airport.

Launch codes, procedures, re-write SOPs etc...no end to it. Sigh!

The very fact that we have a VLF station and a boomer means we have mated our war heads

[prashanth]

Next they will have to bite the bullet of stop applying polish to the nukes and actually mate them with the missile.

Then ready a base Karwar, Vishakhapatnam etc. enhance security, drive out civilians from nearby airport.

Launch codes, procedures, re-write SOPs etc...no end to it. Sigh!

When a ssbn sub is 'deployed' for offensive patrol, it means the wheads are mated and active. Firing plans and target coordinates for each weapon is decided before it leaves the base.The sub has to lurk under water and be ready to fire when asked to, or when they determine that the contact base is destroyed by enemy attack. No question of movie scenes in which the president reads lengthy codes from a paper chit into a shiny black mouthpiece.
That said, we are not sure if our sub was actually 'deployed' after commissioning. It shouldn't take long though.

PS: Note the timing of revelation, immediately after China's support to pak in BRICS meet.

[vina]

83 MW (111,305 hp) as per Wikipedia so must be 83 MWe ie ouput if I am right

No. It's 80 MW t --> approx 20 MWe . The ultra large crude carriers (dwt of 250,000 tons and above) that cruise at 15 knots have an engine that is rated at 120,000 bhp (tops). There is no way you will put a similar hp engine into a 6000 ton boat with a top speed of max 30 knots.

[Austin]

RuNAVY BSF salvor "Epron" provided safety during INS "Arihat" sea trials. Rus will participate in tests of all INS nuc/ subs v

https://twitter.com/RSS_40/status/788665224840802304

[Austin]

Russia will take part in the tests of the Indian SSBN

http://vpk-news.ru/news/33071

The Russian military will take an active part in ensuring the testing and acceptance into service of the Indian nuclear submarines equipped with ballistic missiles (SSBNs)," - said the publication.

According to the interlocutor of "Izvestia" , the Indian side has provided the Russian technique of tests of nuclear submarines.

"As part of the recently achieved intergovernmental agreement, we will send their experts and composition of the ship to assist in the testing of the Indian nuclear submarines, - said the source publication. - Previously, the Russian Navy participated in the organization of rescue and hydrographic support testing SSBN "Arihant". appropriate forces and resources, including search and rescue ships To this end, in the waters of the Indian Ocean were sent. This experience was positive, and it was decided to continue the cooperation. "

"Izvestia", citing a source familiar with the situation, informed that the rescue ship of the Black Sea Fleet "Epron" from September 2015 to March 2016 was based in Visakhapatnam, providing sea and deep test Indian boats, because India is not a rescue ship with modern equipment.

According to Indian media, the planned construction of a series of 4-6 type "Arihant" boats until 2020. Head boat project was launched back in 2009, but further refinement and testing of the submarine took nearly seven years. The boat can carry up to four ballistic missile K-4 Indian design, with a range up to 3500 km. Currently, there is a high degree of readiness SSBN "Aridhaman", which is to be launched this year.

[kit]

Arihant and it's sister subs are directly under PMO not the navy .. the airforce also has some equivalent *Few* squadrons on the strategic role ..all primed for immediate and full scale retaliation. Mated warheads with all coordinates in .

[Singbhai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRaS1Wsk4xk

6:46 to 6:50 covers Arihant. Glimpses of CAD drawings.

[suryag]

http://idrw.org/sub-par-power-yield-lea ... ore-112620

[Bheeshma]

The idrw article is clear farticle. No prestitute will ever see the sub let alone be told any operational detail. Its already been in commission for 3 months.

[Varoon Shekhar]

Agree sounds false, trumped up or way out of date

[shiv]

Multiple articles with conflicting information about the Arihant sound like deliberate obfuscation. Not complaining but jingos are left to defend Indian maal against rona-dhona everwhere about national incompetence.

[malushahi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRaS1Wsk4xk

6:46 to 6:50 covers Arihant. Glimpses of CAD drawings.

nice catch.

gurus, what are the two prop-bearing appendages below the water line adjacent to the conning tower on the cad rendition (6:48-6:49)?

[vina]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRaS1Wsk4xk

6:46 to 6:50 covers Arihant. Glimpses of CAD drawings.

. The CAD / Virtual reality walk thru has two Underwater Autonomous vehicles / mini subs hitched to the side! .Very very Shakinah!

Now Cheenis will run and copy paste similar CAD drawings and show off as their latest J-XX ding dong underwater vehicle .

[tsarkar]

^^ before everyone gets carried away, the graphics were of DCNS SMX-21 / SMX-23 / Ocean concepts that DCNS offered to co-build with Indian Yards including L&T.

Even the submarine shown sailing is Swedish Kockums DE submarine.

[Khalsa]

Arihant and it's sister subs are directly under PMO not the navy .. the airforce also has some equivalent *Few* squadrons on the strategic role ..all primed for immediate and full scale retaliation. Mated warheads with all coordinates in .

Your sentence implies that the rest of Air Force and Navy is not under the command of PMO but report only to their master chiefs.
Sir .... I am not taking a swing at you but explaining to the remaining readers what it actually means.

It means that a few operational squadrons of the Air Force and Arihant of the Navy are tasked only for deterrence and strategic strike.
They are still manned by the same men as the remaining force, report to the same masters.

And above all Naval and Air Force Men report to the Indian Prime Minister.

What you suggest and trying to bring to fore can be restated as the PMO and Vayu Sena HQ and Nau Sena HQ have removed a certain %age of their force from the conventional war ORBAT register and permanently assigned them to the Nuclear Options ORBAT register.

[Aditya G]

.....
What you suggest and trying to bring to fore can be restated as the PMO and Vayu Sena HQ and Nau Sena HQ have removed a certain %age of their force from the conventional war ORBAT register and permanently assigned them to the Nuclear Options ORBAT register.

Not sure what the original poster meant but this is what seems to be the case. This is from the little we know about nuclear C&C in India.

Service chiefs are not in control of nuclear assets. We need CDS for that

[tsarkar]

^^

Only the ATV project to acquire the capability to build nuclear submarines and SLBMs is under PMO. The three agencies driving ATV project are Indian Navy (lead agency and program director is always a Navy Commodore/Rear Admiral), BARC and DRDO.

The reason its under PMO is because of the 1. expense 2. Technology to be developed 3. Sensitive Technologies to be acquired from friendly foreign governments.

Nuclear weapons (warhead) and delivery systems (free fall bombs, missiles) are under the command of Tri-Services Strategic Forces Command, headed in rotation by a Lt Gen or equivalent ranked officer from each service.

SFC operationalizes directives of the Nuclear Command Authority, headed by the Prime Minister

The Delivery Platforms - INS Subhadra, Mirage 2000 - are under the respective services.

For example, INS Subhadra is under IN but the Dhanush missile carried by it is under SFC. The missile launch and targeting will be done by SFC personnel (on deputation from Navy) while navigation and operational deployment of the ship is IN responsibility.

Similarly, Su-30 MKI & Mirage 2000 are IAF assets with mission planning done by IAF. Where the bombs will be dropped is decided by SFC. Arming of the bombs will be done by SFC personnel (on deputation from IAF)

There was a horribly misleading article saying 42 Su-30MKI being purchased for SFC. SFC does not own any delivery asset.

This segregation between two agencies also ensures safety (no one agency can do it on its own)

[Aditya_V]

What about the Agnis and Prithvi's, does SFC not conttrol these completly.

[JTull]

Firing plans and target coordinates for each weapon is decided before it leaves the base.

I am reluctant to believe that each missile on Arihant has a pre-assigned target. My guess would that there are hundreds of targets that are pre-determined but any order to launch would include a code for one of these targets.

[ShauryaT]

What about the Agnis and Prithvi's, does SFC not conttrol these completly.

The IA platforms at this point are ready for a second strike with the warhead and missile stored close together but not mated. The mating process itself is done by three entities the SFC, DRDO and DAE and this process is nailed down to a few hours as of now. As we move to canisters a part of the force will be ready for launch after attack within minutes and removing the scientists from the picture. But with the Arihant, the capability now shifts to a launch under attack posture and could move towards launch on warning eventually. These new postures will remove the scientists from the chain of command. SFC personnel of IA, will be responsible for this launch. The SFC commander is a military man, who has a dotted line to the COSC.

At a command level, the NCA is a troika of the executive, the bureaucracy and services. Thanks to Brajesh Mishra, he has put the NSA as the intermediary of the decision architecture, compounding the software pieces of the NCA. The SFC is still viewed as the "executing" arm only and there is much reliance on non-military personnel for planning & strategy.

[Lisa]

When a ssbn sub is 'deployed' for offensive patrol, it means the wheads are mated and active. Firing plans and target coordinates for each weapon is decided before it leaves the base.The sub has to lurk under water and be ready to fire when asked to, or when they determine that the contact base is destroyed by enemy attack. No question of movie scenes in which the president reads lengthy codes from a paper chit into a shiny black mouthpiece.
That said, we are not sure if our sub was actually 'deployed' after commissioning. It shouldn't take long though.

PS: Note the timing of revelation, immediately after China's support to pak in BRICS meet.

The bolded part, not possible. Of all missiles loaded some will be prone to technical faults and failure. In the case of such a failure alternate planning must permit onsite targeting of a second missile as a replacement shot. All systems but have Robust Redundancy Contingency.

[prashanth]

All systems but have Robust Redundancy Contingency.

Definitely.They will have plan-B, C etc with redundancies built in. But with so much money invested on design, manufacturing, quality control and testing, there has to be a plan-A that assumes 100 percent success, isn't it?

[Singha]

Till date i think russia has unloaded a full ssbn salvo in tests only once under operation begemot. The americans maybe never in real test. But slbm failures seem to be more than land based icbm from casual observation.

[tsarkar]

What about the Agnis and Prithvi's, does SFC not conttrol these completly.

Agni 1 TEL and Rail Launchers are operated by Indian Army 334 Missile Group while Agni 2 TEL and Rail Launchers are operated by IA 335 Missile Group. The missiles and warheads are operated by SFC personnel on deputation from IA but the overall unit is operationally under Indian Army. Prithvi Groups 333, 444 and 555 are part of each Artillery Division. For example, 333 was part of 40th Artillery Division.

[Lisa]

All systems but have Robust Redundancy Contingency.

Definitely.They will have plan-B, C etc with redundancies built in. But with so much money invested on design, manufacturing, quality control and testing, there has to be a plan-A that assumes 100 percent success, isn't it?

Prashanthji,

One would not normally hard code something that requires operational flexibility of use, agreed?. Just think of a scenario where you have 3 operational submarines, if one is lost how do the other 2 respond vis-a-vis targeting list? IMHO, same rules would apply to a single submarine and its need of operational flexibility. However, I am also prone to failure and would gladly hear of a alternate opinion.

[Bheeshma]

Still no videos or grainy pics of the K-4 launches. I guess we have to wait a while before they are released.

[prashanth]

Prashanthji,

One would not normally hard code something that requires operational flexibility of use, agreed?. Just think of a scenario where you have 3 operational submarines, if one is lost how do the other 2 respond vis-a-vis targeting list? IMHO, same rules would apply to a single submarine and its need of operational flexibility. However, I am also prone to failure and would gladly hear of a alternate opinion.

No 'ji' please . Even I come here to learn something, and my own opinions may not be accurate.

[Manish_Sharma]

Till date i think russia has unloaded a full ssbn salvo in tests only once under operation begemot. The americans maybe never in real test. But slbm failures seem to be more than land based icbm from casual observation.

[Austin]

Birth Of A Boomer: How India Built Its Nuclear Submarine

During the 1971 War, as India’s armoured columns crashed through the Pakistan Army’s defences and thundered down the road to Lahore, the US and British navies made a threatening pincer against India. While the US Seventh Fleet sailed menacingly towards Kolkata, a British flotilla from Madagascar steamed towards Mumbai. It was the timely arrival of the Russian Pacific Fleet – comprising warships and nuclear submarines – that prevented a joint American-British attack on India.

Because of the West’s interference in the war, India could not achieve a key aim – the destruction of Pakistani armour on the western front. The incident impressed upon the Indian political leadership the need for a nuclear submarine fleet to ward of future gunboat diplomacy. As noted by Eric Arnett, a researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, “The history and implications of (nuclear powered submarines) for Indian maritime strategy suggest that the US presence in the Indian Ocean was a stronger motivation for the programme.”

Completing the triad

Almost 45 years after those dramatic December days, the Indian Navy’s indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant has been declared ready for operations. India is now only one step away from acquiring a second strike capability in the event of a nuclear exchange. The final phase involves the arming of the Arihant’s torpedo tubes with either the 700 km range K-15 submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) or the 3500 km K-4. After nuclear warheads are mated to these missiles, India will finally be able to complete its nuclear triad, giving the country’s war planners multiple options if it comes to a nuclear confrontation.

A nuclear triad refers to the three components of atomic weapons delivery: strategic bombers, intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) and SLBMs. The third leg of this triad is of great significance to India. If a first strike cripples the nuclear missile force as well as the air force, then the INS Arihant can launch retaliatory strikes that will render the attacking country unfit for human life.

Submarines of this class are known as sub-surface ballistic nuclear or SSBNs – aka boomers in the parlance of sailors – and are the best guarantor that a sneak nuclear attack will not destroy the country’s ability to strike back. Lurking in the valleys and ridges at the bottom of the ocean and constantly moving, a single SSBN is enough to sow doubt in the enemy’s mind that some strategic missiles will be launched in retaliation.

According to Richard Sharpe of Jane's Fighting Ships, a nuclear submarine will give India a "colossal advantage" over its neighbours. “Facing a nuclear submarine is a nightmare; it has unlimited endurance and mobility and there's no place for a surface ship to hide,” he writes.

Race begins

India initiated work on a nuclear powered submarine in 1974 – three years after the 1971 War. However, typical of Indian defence projects, the project never quite achieved traction. Although the navy was involved, the project was from the start under the thumb of the civilian Department of Atomic Energy (DAE). Way over its head in a project it couldn’t begin to fathom, the DAE failed to come up with a nuclear reactor that could operate on the rough seas.

According to journalist Praful Bidwai, the DAE’s original design of 1975 proved totally unviable and had to be abandoned after about Rs 100 crore was spent on it.

“The DAE learnt no lessons from this disaster,” Bidwai says. “Indeed, when a critic with a reactor engineering doctorate, then navy Captain B.K. Subba Rao, voiced his doubts about its design, he was victimised. He was arrested on his way abroad for an academic conference and charged with espionage – an accusation he successfully disproved after long periods in jail.”

By the mid-1980s the project had soaked up as much as Rs 2500 crore in research and development costs. Bidwai says the project failed because the agencies concerned couldn’t fabricate high-quality components and equipment, plus the constant interference from the civilian bureaucracy certainly took its toll.

Russian tech arrives

The project was re-launched in 1985 under Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) co-ordination, with the codename Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV). With a retired vice admiral in charge, work on a prototype reactor began at the Kalpakkam nuclear power plant near Chennai.

“But the project was still not getting anywhere,” says V. Koithara in the book Managing India’s Nuclear Forces. “India then sought and got much more substantial Russian help than had been envisaged earlier.”

Russia helped with another significant aspect – crew training. Even as ATV development was plodding along, India prepared for operating an SSBN by leasing a Charlie class nuclear-powered submarine, renamed INS Chakra, from Russia in January 1988. However, the pro-American government of Boris Yeltsin refused to extend the lease and the sub returned to Vladivostok in January 1991.

By 1996, when India had spent $285.7 million on the nuclear submarine, work on the project came to a crawl because of pressure from the US. In fact, pressure started coming from the unlikeliest of places. The Federation of American Scientists says ASEAN also wanted India to stop work on the ATV as a condition for entry into the trading group and for India to be invited to future Asia-Europe summits. The European Union was behind the demands put up by ASEAN.

What was happening was that by stopping Moscow from selling key technologies to India, the Americans hoped to starve Russian industry of much needed funds. The other intent of this plan was to curtail India’s ability to develop strategic weapons. This not only had the effect of creating a rift between Russia and India, it also allowed the Americans a foot in the door in India’s huge defence market.

However, with the exit of the pro-American elements in the early 2000s, the Russians came back in full strength. While Russian designers assisted in building the vessel, which is based on the Akula class hunter killer submarine, its nuclear-powered 80MW pressurised water reactor was developed by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre with assistance from a design team from Rubin, the Russian submarine-design bureau.

Although the reactor was “designed, fabricated and executed in India” by Indian industry and under the direction of Indian scientists, the chairman of India’s Atomic Energy Commission, Dr Anil Kakodkar, told the media in 2009: “I would also like to thank our Russian colleagues. They have played a very important role as consultants, they have a lot of experience in this so their consultancy has been of great help so that I think we should acknowledge.”

Birth of the boomer

On July 26, 2009 India began the Arihant’s construction in a purpose built facility in Visakhapatnam. There were no further technical – or more importantly, geopolitical – glitches. On December 15, 2014, the 367 ft vessel was finally launched. It is a measure of how zealously India guards its strategic submarine that when the jet black beauty sailed out of the naval dockyard, the navy and air force deployed their MiG-29K and Su-30 MKI combat jets around the harbour while the Poseidon P-8I maritime surveillance and attack aircraft from the nearby naval base at Arakkonam sanitised the area for any hostile underwater activity. Further, warships from the Eastern Command provided protective cover.

Because boomers are strategic weapons with the power to destroy entire nations, they are closely guarded state secrets. In fact, the exact date when the Arihant first flew the flag is classified. Former admiral Arun Prakash told IANS: “Its mission is to be a nuclear deterrent. Everything to do with the submarine will be a secret. Its movement, position and location will not even be known to the navy. It is not a normal ship. Though we would like to show it off, we cannot.”

Future SSBN fleet

India still has a long way to go before it can claim to have a true and complete nuclear triad. For foolproof deterrence, one SSBN should be underwater at any given time, which means the Indian Navy requires a minimum of three SSBNs in the fleet. China currently has four SSBNs, and may have eight in service by 2020.

Two other Arihant class boats are currently under construction. The first of these boats is the INS Aridhaman codenamed S-3, with the Arihant being S-2.

The 6000 ton Arihant class submarines are considered babies when compared with the real leviathans of the ocean such as the Russian Borei class boats which measure an incredible 574 ft and can dive to nearly half a kilometre. A single Borei carries 16 ballistic missiles with enough independently targeted warheads to destroy 200 cities.

The next generation of Indian SSBNs, designated S-5, will be launched in the 2020s and will be significantly larger. But it will be decades before India attempts to build boomers that can rival those in the Russian or US fleets.

It is a measure of how seriously India is taking its nuclear triad that it is negotiating the lease of a second nuclear powered attack submarine from Russia. This is reportedly the 8140 ton Kashalot – one of the fastest and deepest diving undersea boats in the world. According to the website RusNavy.com, the submarine achieved a Russian Navy record in the summer of 1991 by trailing foreign submarines for over 14 days without being detected.

India’s attempt to shift its deterrence undersea has faced innumerable difficulties. From the beginning, the US placed every possible roadblock to curb India’s ambitions. But with the thaw in the relationship, Indian scientists routinely use American and Japanese supercomputers for submarine design.

However, some in the West are still holding on to the vestiges of the Cold War. For instance, in 1988 when the Indian Navy got its first Akula sub, one Western military observer said: “India wants to take over the mantle of the British raj.” Three decades later, on March 26, the US condemned India for testing its 3500 km range K4 SLBM. Going back to its old script, the State Department criticised India’s “nuclearisation” of the Indian Ocean.

It’ll take a few more boomers to get the world used to India’s undersea deterrent.

[Rahul M]

quoting praful bidwai as some authority on Indian nuclear program, firing ballistic missiles from torpedo tubes, this chap calls himself a defence journalist ?

swarajya must do better, speaking as a subscriber.

[Austin]

^^ He probably means VLS tube and not TT. He also quotes many known persons on ATV besides Bidwai

[rohitvats]

Agni 1 TEL and Rail Launchers are operated by Indian Army 334 Missile Group while Agni 2 TEL and Rail Launchers are operated by IA 335 Missile Group. The missiles and warheads are operated by SFC personnel on deputation from IA but the overall unit is operationally under Indian Army. Prithvi Groups 333, 444 and 555 are part of each Artillery Division. For example, 333 was part of 40th Artillery Division.

- Apart from 334 and 335 Missile Groups, I've reasons to believe that a third, 336 Missile Group also exists.
- I've yet to come across evidence of Prithvi Missile Groups having been moved under any of the artillery divisions. All the pictures of Prithvi TEL on R-Day parades has formation sign of Army HQ. None of them sport the formation sign of any of the artillery divisions. As compared to them, the Brahmos contingent has formation sigh of their parent artillery division.
- I'm skeptical of 444 Missile Group with Prithvi Missiles having come about. Yes, there was news about IA raising 444 and 555 Missile Groups in addition to 333 Missile Group. But there were reports that IA was not looking beyond 444 Missile Group and was in favor of Agni series of missiles. I'm doubtful whether 444 Missile Group also came about.

[Bart S]

quoting praful bidwai as some authority on Indian nuclear program, firing ballistic missiles from torpedo tubes, this chap calls himself a defence journalist ?

swarajya must do better, speaking as a subscriber.

The author is a well known pro-Russian shill and works for a Russian news outlet as well. Most of his articles are thinly veiled PR/propaganda for Russia. There is virtually no new or useful info in his article, the whole crux of it seems to be that desis are useless and going nowhere, and everything we have is by the grace of Russia.

[Aditya G]

Rohit,

Do we have a list of IA missile regiments inclduing smerch and brahmos?