Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Cybaru » 16 Jan 2017 22:31

Kindle price is 9.99$ instantly available the Anil Anand book.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Austin » 08 Apr 2017 15:28

No New Nuclear Submarines for the Indian Navy

https://www.yovizag.com/nuclear-submari ... ders-navy/
While the Indian Navy is in need of nuclear submarines to bolster its strength underwater and to replace its ailing fleet, no builders have shown interest in the project so far. The Union Government had previously announced that six nuclear ones would be built after a clearance given by the Cabinet committee on security.

The project that was estimated to cost Rs 50,000 crore would’ve provided a much-needed boost to the shipyard. The submarines were to be designed by the Directorate of Naval Design and touted to be built at Hindustan Shipyard. But Hindustan Shipyard has clearly stated that it will not be building them in its yard. “We will not build any nuclear submarine for the Indian Navy,” stated the Chairman and Managing Director of Hindustan Shipyard Limited, retired Rear Admiral LV Sharatbabu.

He has reportedly refused to elaborate further on the topic and even Reliance Defence and Engineering hasn’t come forward to build them at their shipyard in Rambilli village in Visakhapatnam district. The company has gone back on the MoU it signed with the state government in the city during the CII Partnership Summit in 2016. They had signed a MoU stating and agreeing to build nuclear submarines and much-needed aircraft carriers for the Indian Navy in collaboration with Russian companies. Even though they yet to even come forward for taking up the project, the state government has already issued a GO for the allotment of land citing the MoU as the reason.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 08 Apr 2017 15:31

i had read the article but refrained from posting it. it sounds garbled and ... reliance has not built a harbour tug yet let alone a SSN.
I believe SBC which is building the A-class and follow ons is a separate entity under PMO control from HSL which is a regular PSU. HSL has upgraded 1 kilo and is doing another now but I do not think other than sharing the same location & some infra they are part of SBC which is a walled garden

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Prasad » 09 Apr 2017 00:57

Nothing on L&T's shipyard either which aims to build subs apart from other things.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Karthik S » 27 Apr 2017 10:04

Livefist‏ @livefist
Some tremendously promising new info on India's indigenous nuclear submarine build program around the corner. Details soon. Stay tuned.


Would it be about Aridhaman.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Philip » 27 Apr 2017 14:11

I suggest that L&T be earmrked for constructing the 6 SSNs.Not too long ago,the Russians evaluated all Indian yards and found its yard the best,esp. as it has the specialised skilled workforce for the same. L&T are already assisting greatly in the ATV/SSBN project and would not find it difficult to expand its capabilities further. Moreover,Kalpakkam is nearby and many of the other specialised DPSUs connected with our missile dev. are located in the south.This way,wewould have MDL on the west coast,HSL and L&T on the east coats able to build subs.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 27 Apr 2017 14:26

L&T shipyard in hazira, Guj are said to have made the arihant hull sections and floated it by sea barge to SBC. so they are already in the game. maybe the reverse can be tried to scale up as in SBC does the reactor and power section and taken by ship to hazira where L&T does the rest.

so far no speculative drawings of the SSBN and SSNs are out though. a new higher power reactor will be needed with longer refuel cycle. steam plant can be sourced from russis...but we really need to make our own reactor as such strategic products may be restricted or sanctioned later by treaties or if we have a falling out with the russias. pindigenize as much as possible even if behind leading edge.

L&T shipyard https://www.google.co.in/maps/@21.15884 ... a=!3m1!1e3

ABG shipyard across the tapi river https://www.google.co.in/maps/place/A+B ... 72.7411353
one of them could be a warship or CG

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby RKumar » 27 Apr 2017 17:20

Or how about Sub based long range missile successful test launch from Ar*

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Nitesh » 24 Aug 2017 17:54

http://theprint.in/2017/08/24/exclusive ... dy-launch/

Sources have told ThePrint that the submarine – larger, more powerful and better equipped than India’s first nuclear sub INS Arihant – has undergone all work required at the dry dock and will shortly be launched into water for further outfitting.


Not only is the boat larger and equipped to carry more of the K-15 submarine launched missiles, it will also have a more powerful reactor than the 83 MW one on board the Arihant. More importantly, Indian shipbuilders have drastically cut down construction time on the boat.

Work on the Aridaman started in earnest after the Arihant was launched in 2009. While the Arihant took 11 years to reach the launch stage, Aridaman has got there within eight. The Indian Navy is hopeful that the time to induction will also be cut. Faced with technological challenges, it took the Arihant seven years to go from launch to induction – a quiet commissioning was done last year – but the Navy is believed to be looking at an ambitious two-year target for the Aridaman.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Pratyush » 24 Aug 2017 18:00

I was under the impression that aridaman was a repeat of arihant. With the following boats to be larger.

No matter i am happy to have been wrong and happy that she is about to hit the water.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Karthik S » 24 Aug 2017 18:05

8+2=10 years, that's long too.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Yagnasri » 24 Aug 2017 18:13

We can only say it is better than SSKs we are making which are none except french ones.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 24 Aug 2017 18:18

unlike a ship where a lot of fitting out can be done after floating out by keeping open sections of deck to lower equipment in, a sub I think has to be nearly fully fitted out when its floated out. maybe some sensors on the sail can be fitted but the hull is sealed.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Yagnasri » 24 Aug 2017 18:22

Don't they fit sonar over the surface? I am mango here but from what I read ( Tom Clancy etc. forgive me please) sonar dome will be fitted on the surface na?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby hanumadu » 24 Aug 2017 18:58

It is a recurring theme India makes one or just a few of any kind of indigenous product and moves on to a bigger, better next iteration. One nuclear submarine, one air craft carrier, a few AEWCS before moving on to bigger AWACS, 20 lca mk1s, 80 odd lca mk1as before mk2 or AMCA, 124 Arjun mk1, another hundred odd Arjun mk2s before the next version.

Perhaps it does not cost much in terms of R&D in India as compared to other countries, hence why waste money on smaller, inadequate versions when you can quickly move on to a more capable version.

While it may be a good idea for products where there is no foreign alternative, but in cases where there is a foreign alternative like Arjun, it is killing indigenous defence industry. Of course, the reasons for quick turn around might be entirely different for carrier, awacs, ssbns compared to Arjun and LCA.

I still hope we build a couple more vikrant class carriers, a couple more arihant class subs and a few more aewcs. If we manage to develop newer versions quickly, these can always be sold to friendly countries, perhaps at a discount. Maintenance and repair of these items should make up for any discounts.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 24 Aug 2017 19:46

r&d is cheap , production @ scale is expensive and also hard as nothing can be hand built by scientists anymore but must be done in factory by normal workers, so a whole new ballgame.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby SaiK » 25 Aug 2017 01:12

https://theprint.in/2017/08/24/exclusiv ... dy-launch/

Exclusive: ‘Aridaman’, India’s second nuclear-armed submarine, is ready for launch

Not only is the boat larger and equipped to carry more of the K-15 submarine launched missiles, it will also have a more powerful reactor than the 83 MW one on board the Arihant. More importantly, Indian shipbuilders have drastically cut down construction time on the boat.

India has also cleared a project to construct a new line of nuclear-powered but conventionally-armed submarines (SSNs). The mammoth plan, expected to cost over $12 billion, is for six modern vessels to be made in India.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Karthik S » 25 Aug 2017 09:09

A guy in DFI claims that the sub was launched x months back, and that K-5 ejection test is also completed. I always wondered, being deterrent platforms, why are we so secret about the program? Every other country we know the exact number of subs both SSN and SSBNs operational, construction timelines etc. Isn't it necessary to show your deterrence to your enemy to avoid conflict in the first place?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby yensoy » 25 Aug 2017 09:40

SaiK wrote:https://theprint.in/2017/08/24/exclusive-aridaman-indias-second-nuclear-armed-submarine-ready-launch/

Not only is the boat larger and equipped to carry more of the K-15 submarine launched missiles, it will also have a more powerful reactor than the 83 MW one on board the Arihant.


Is it larger like with more central sections added on to make it a "stretched" Arihant? Much like what Boeing and Airbus do with their planes?

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Philip » 25 Aug 2017 13:14

The sub is probably fitted with another VLS module,doubling the missile capacity of the first boat (Arihant).It could theoretically have 8 3,500km-5,000km BMs ,or a combo of 4 K-4 with 3 MIRVs (non-stop to China) and 12 K-15s (some ,non-stop to Pak). The reactor could be the same type,or modified of that on the Chakra/Akula,which would make support/operations/trg.,etc.easier tx to commonality.WE need to see whether the sail is the same shape as in SSBN-1,or more flared as in the Akula ,meaning higher speeds.One would expect at least 3 subs of this improved boat to be built before a larger boat with 16 silos for ICBMs arrives post 2025.

This leaves the problem as to who is going to build the 6 attack boats? Not HSL which will be fully engaged in building the SSBNs. Ideal yard,L&T's Katupalli at Chennai,close to Kalpakkam and the N-complex there.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2017 18:29

Karthik S wrote:A guy in DFI claims that the sub was launched x months back, and that K-5 ejection test is also completed. I always wondered, being deterrent platforms, why are we so secret about the program? Every other country we know the exact number of subs both SSN and SSBNs operational, construction timelines etc. Isn't it necessary to show your deterrence to your enemy to avoid conflict in the first place?


only if you are really strong. until that point covert ambiguous deterrence is used to throw doubts.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2017 18:31

imo Mazgaon can become a specialized sub building yard and hive off the DDG line to other players.
they atleast have the manpower trained in building subs. some of the infra and techniques will be common.
one line for P75I, one for SSN
being co-located with navy HQ and sub base they can closely work with the navys submarine forces.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Philip » 25 Aug 2017 18:55

The problem is that MDL and Bombay is too near Pakiland and vulnerable to attack. While MDL could continue to build conv. subs,building N-subs would be better done elsewhere,as it is being done in Vizag and perhaps in the future at L&T's Madras facility.WE need 3-4 sub-building/rep[air facilities.Some time ago there wa a report that the Pip yard had signed an agreement with Rubin of Ru for maintenance/support for Kilo subs. I envisage two lines of N-subs (SSBNs and SSNs)and two lines of conv./AIP boats reqd. in the future.This way ,we could have around 2 new subs entering service in the IN every year,with at least one N-sub every alt. yr.,which will enable the In to both replace old subs as well as augment its number to around 36-40+ reqd. to deal with both Pak and China.

First outside news that a Sea Hake torpedo was tested from the Kalvari earlier this yr.If true,then this is most probably the "fish" that we will procure even though there are reports of 5 firang firms approached for heavyweight fish for the iN.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201708 ... does-navy/
The first of the Scorpene class submarine built by India — INS Kalavvari is expected to be inducted in the Indian Navy by end of August. It has successfully undergone a series of weapons trials including the test firing of a German SeaHake heavyweight torpedo and the launch of a French-made Exocet SM39 anti-ship missile, already in use by the Indian forces. The second Scorpene class submarine christened INS-Khanderi is also on the final stages of sea trial and is expected to be formally inducted in the Indian Navy by the end of this year.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2017 19:09

>>The problem is that MDL and Bombay is too near Pakiland and vulnerable to attack

if we cannot protect our largest city from all threats ... mumbai has trombay too on other side and its not going away

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Karthik S » 25 Aug 2017 19:10

Need to develop L&T Kattupalli exclusively for SSN and SSBN.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2017 19:16

mazgaon will be 5x easier than a greenfield startup. its like IBM doing new databases

let them be the lead and final integrator and L&T could perhaps build some modular sections fully fitted up and barge them to mumbai.

even airbuses and boeings are made in many sites nowadays...its a test of project mgmt and training and engineering but doable.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Gagan » 25 Aug 2017 19:22

Conventional subs at Mazgaon is a good plan
SBC will probably continue to build the SSNs and SSBNs. L&T instead of using Hazira, might shift building its sections in Kattupalli.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2017 19:35

does L&T have any exp in warship building and system integration?
afaik they have only fabricated and welded bare bones hull sections for N subs in hazira so far. thats just one aspect of it.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Gagan » 25 Aug 2017 19:52

Reliance has the lead on surface warship building at Pipavav - Reliance Defense Industries LTD
They are building those NOPVs for the Navy and CG

L&T builds interceptors for the Coast Guard, has build the two floating drydocks for the IN.
One of the docks - the smaller one is in Port Blair, the other was just launched.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby ShauryaT » 25 Aug 2017 20:20

10 days to fueling the Aridhaman

I think it is time to rename the thread. India's SSBN force!

The second indigenous Arihant-class SSBN, INS Aridhaman, is completely outfitted, all inside of 7 years from the time when its keel was laid at the Vizag special projects facility. It took less time to produce than the Ohio-class SSBN rolling out of the General Dynamics Electric Boat facility at Quonset Point, Rhode Island, and Groton, MA, which complex has by now manufactured over a hundred SSBNs and SSNs for the US Navy.

Aridhaman will be fueled up ten days from today, i.e., around September 5, and the more powerful nuclear reactor in it (than in the Arihant) will be fired up soon thereafter. The vessel will then be ready to undergo harbour trials and conduct shallow dives before the trials take to the open sea.

Not too long ago, the Chinese Navy launched its Laoning-class aircraft carrier with much fanfare. It will take PLAN 15-20 years to integrate the carrier into fleet ops. India’s more strategic riposte with the Aridhaman, especially with the continuing eyeballing situation in the Doklam area of the trijunction, is a perfect reminder to the Central Military Commission headed by the recently anointed “Supreme commander of the people’s army”, Xi Jinping, that it won’t do his regime any good exercising the intimidation techniques of threatening, huffing and puffing, feints, etc. recommended by the ancient Confucian strategist Suntze in lieu of actual action in the hope that a sufficiently cowed adversary will back down. India is not backing down. So Beijing has a choice of losing face — partially or totally.

The Aridhaman, moreover, has 8 tubes to launch the K-4 2,500 km SLBMs — twice the number of tubes as the Arihant, and can carry some 24 land-attack K-15 missiles as well. The twin SSBN set will by end-2018 be able to drop a whopping nuclear load on Shanghai and the coast line to the east and west of that metropolis — the main wealth-generating region of China. Not a bad thing for the 2nd Artillery Strategic Forces to keep hereafter in mind. Meanwhile, with the second Akula-II SSN — the agreement for its lease from Russia is at the stage of crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s — entering IN service, the Laoning will be well advised to stay well east of the Malacca Strait.

There’s, moreover, general relief in ASEAN states and the now Brahmos-armed Vietnam as also in the Far East, particularly Japan, with the recent developments in South Asia. India’s firm handling of the Doklam issue combined which together with the second Indian SSBN soon showily taking to the waters, will increase manifold the confidence of the Asian states on the Chinese periphery in India, and douse the dragon’s fire.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Philip » 25 Aug 2017 20:24

L&T Defence shipbuilding.
http://www.lntshipbuilding.com/products ... pbuilding/

New Construction - Defence Shipbuilding

L&T has undertaken complex mission-critical projects towards Nation Building in all strategic sectors. In the Defence sector, L&T undertakes design and development of equipment and systems as well as platforms.
L&T is proud to have been associated with the Design Engineering and Construction of India’s first nuclear powered submarine, INS Arihant, demonstrating multi-disciplinary capabilities for Engineering and Construction of complex Naval platforms.

L&T’s shipbuilding portfolio includes:
Frontline Warships: Frigates, Destroyers, Corvettes
Submarines
Special Platforms: Landing Platform Dock
Diving, Survey and Research Vessels
Auxiliary Vessels: Offshore Patrol Vessels, Floating Dock
Interceptor Boats, Fast Speed Boats etc.


With a focus on modular design and construction, the major strengths of L&T in Defence shipbuilding are:
In-house Design Centres for Warships and Submarines, equipped with the latest Design tools, including a Virtual Reality Studio
Design and development of platform specific equipment and systems
State-of-the-art yard infrastructure at Kattupalli and Hazira
Trained Manpower
Multi-site Project Management skills and financial strength

Design of Naval ships are undertaken in-house and we have developed basic designs of Interceptor Boats, Offshore Patrol Vessels, Corvettes etc. which can be adapted to customer requirements. 3D Modelling integrated with Product Lifecycle Management and other Design and Analysis software suites enable accuracy, revision control and output aligned with yard infrastructure.

Currently, L&T is executing several Defence projects including:
Design and construction of 54 high-speed Interceptor Boats and for Indian Coast Guard
Design and construction of 07 Offshore Patrol Vessels for Indian Coast Guard
Design and construction of a Floating Dock for Indian Navy


On the equipment front, the following marine systems have been developed and supplied for different classes of ships:
Marine Engineering: Steering Gear, Stabilisers, Propulsion shafting for Ships and submarines, special heat exchangers, Thrust Blocks, Special Seals, Stern Gear sub-systems, Line shaft Bearings

Weapon Launch Systems: Torpedo Launching systems, Rocket Launchers, Anti-Submarine Rocket Launchers, BrahMos inclined and Vertical Missile launchers. Dhanush weapon system, Fire Control Systems for these launch systems.
Sensor Systems. Revathi Radar stabilised platforms, Winch handling systems for Towed Array Sonars, ATAS, ATDS, etc.
Control Systems: Combat Management System, Integrated Platform Management System, Integrated Bridge System, Automated Power Management System etc.

Electrical systems: Main (AC/DC) switchboards, distribution Boards, Starters, ACOS, Control Panels, Ship Degaussing Systems etc.
Auxiliary systems. Helicopter Landing Gear, Replenishment at Sea (RSA) equipment, blast-proof hanger shutters, Boat Davits, special pressure-proof hatches and doors etc.

Communication Systems: Special Modems, VHF / UHF Linking Equipment, secure quick communication Interface for interfacing with foreign Navies during joint exercises
In addition to Design, Engineering and Construction of warships, L&T offers lifecycle management and mid-life upgrades for warships, submarines and auxiliary vessels. The Navy & Coast Guard therefore secures total solutions from concept design to delivery and in-service maintenance support.

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2017 20:25

It is said p chidambaram during a review meeting made them 2x the tubes of aridaman and #3 for better roi

Wasnt he defence min in upa1

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Manish_Sharma » 25 Aug 2017 20:47

ShauryaT wrote:10 days to fueling the Aridhaman

I think it is time to rename the thread. India's SSBN force!



SSBN are Arihant class, so Arihant it shall remain.

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Re: Indian nuclear submarines -3

Postby prasannasimha » 25 Aug 2017 21:10

Also news of a K5 test has been done ?
Probably all these selective leaks are a part of the warning to China that we are ready. Most of these black box projects were kept covered under a shroud of ambiguity.

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Re: Indian nuclear submarines -3

Postby Philip » 25 Aug 2017 21:20

If the second boat has 3 times the silos,great! Would make more sense,esp. with a reactor much more powerful than the first.3X 12 BMs sufficient for the moment.The next 3 should have a larger silo for a genuine LR ICBM>

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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -3

Postby Karthik S » 25 Aug 2017 21:47

Singha wrote:does L&T have any exp in warship building and system integration?
afaik they have only fabricated and welded bare bones hull sections for N subs in hazira so far. thats just one aspect of it.


Singha ji, nuke subs are something that we'll be building for many decades to come, wouldn't it be prudent to prop up a major player such as L&T? As such they have very good reputation for their engineering.

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Re: Indian nuclear submarines -3

Postby shiv » 25 Aug 2017 22:01

From an unusually cheerful Bharat Karnad...
https://bharatkarnad.com/2017/08/25/10- ... aridhaman/
whoops - repeat post

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Re: Indian nuclear submarines -3

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 25 Aug 2017 22:36

"From an unusually cheerful Bharat Karnad...
https://bharatkarnad.com/2017/08/25/10- ... aridhaman/"

True, he's usually quite sceptical, if not downright sour and negative. Particularly with the first launch of the Agni-5, which he insisted was an IRBM, not an ICBM. And of course with the nuclear tests of 1998.

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Re: Indian nuclear submarines -3

Postby kit » 25 Aug 2017 22:49

looks like 2 separate sub manufacturing lines simultaneously in addition to what is going on currently !! ..one nuclear and one conventional, could mean that one nuke and one or more conventional sub (at least) could join every year 5 years from now

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Re: Indian nuclear submarines -3

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2017 22:51

Must have got a official leak and what he heard has improved his mood about things. A positiv neuj sign imo


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