Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby kit » 12 Dec 2019 21:12

*deleted

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Cybaru » 13 Dec 2019 05:59

I haven't seen this before. Has this been released before? Is this Arihant?

Image

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-indias-arihant-class-missile-submarine-serious-problem-china-104232

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Aarvee » 13 Dec 2019 06:10

Cybaru wrote:I haven't seen this before. Has this been released before? Is this Arihant?

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-indias-arihant-class-missile-submarine-serious-problem-china-104232


Kalvari class sub, possibly INS_Karanj. You can also see "md" logo of Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders. Arihant class on the other hand are built in Vizag.

Added later: National interest is as bad if not worse than IDRW. Hopeless, badly written tabloid like articles.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Cybaru » 13 Dec 2019 06:36

Ah makes sense! Will skip national interest next time.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby tsarkar » 13 Dec 2019 12:36

The above photo gives a good indication of the sonar apertures of the Scorpene

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Vips » 13 Dec 2019 23:30

News on defence AV;
Chakra 3 will be used s a test bed for developing India's 6 new Nuclear Subs(S5 Class).
All Trials are over for S3 INS Arighat and to enter service next year.
S4 and S4 * will be heavier then S3 by 1000 tons
Russia to help develop 190 MW pressurized heavy water reactor for the S5 Class submarines.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby ShauryaT » 14 Dec 2019 12:05

Vips wrote:News on defence AV;
Chakra 3 will be used s a test bed for developing India's 6 new Nuclear Subs(S5 Class).
All Trials are over for S3 INS Arighat and to enter service next year.
S4 and S4 * will be heavier then S3 by 1000 tons
Russia to help develop 190 MW pressurized heavy water reactor for the S5 Class submarines.
correlation is not causation but the correlation is stark. The Akula also uses a 190MWt reactor.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Philip » 14 Dec 2019 18:03

Help would probably be indigenising the design to be built at home. Having the same reactor as the Akulas would be pragmatic from all angles, training,operating,maintaining, nuclear fuel and supporting- cost effective too. One Q, wasn't " S-5" earlier supposed to be a full sized SSBN carrying around 16 ICBMs?

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Vips » 14 Dec 2019 21:16

Yes the AV did mention that S5 will be a nuclear attack submarine. Not sure what that means.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Barath » 15 Dec 2019 07:42

Is it possible that the defence AV just got it wrong and these are SSBNs ?

Or that the same design would be basis for both SSBN/SSN ?

A report from a couple of years ago talked about S5 as 13500 ton sub

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Yagnasri » 15 Dec 2019 18:20

No public news on 6 SSNs being planned.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby abhik » 15 Dec 2019 20:42

Who/What is Defense AV? Is it one of the entities that regurgitate 2nd hand news/speculation on YouTube?

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Ankit Desai » 16 Dec 2019 00:51

Yagnasri wrote:No public news on 6 SSNs being planned.


Work begins on India’s next gen nuclear-powered submarines

Work has started on the Rs 1 lakh crore project to produce next generation nuclear-powered submarines for the Indian Navy, with a defence public sector unit working on a special alloy for the hull. A scale model is likely to be tested soon as part of the design process.

The project to build advanced nuclear submarines designed for longrange underwater patrols and armed with conventional weapons has been granted over Rs 100 crore seed money by the government for the initial phase with officials predicting a development period that is expected to stretch beyond 2025. The plan to build six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) kicked off in 2015 when the NDA government gave a go ahead to a long-pending project for the Indian Navy. Then Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba confirmed in 2017 that the project is underway.

Sources said considerable progress has been made in the design phase of the new boats with a scale model likely to be fabricated and tested shortly.
.........


-Ankit

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby SSridhar » 16 Dec 2019 06:56

Barath wrote:A report from a couple of years ago talked about S5 as 13500 ton sub

If you listen to the RS Security Scan, S3 (Arighat) is already 12 to 13K Tonnes with a complement of 8 K4s.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby ShauryaT » 16 Dec 2019 08:47

SSridhar wrote:
Barath wrote:A report from a couple of years ago talked about S5 as 13500 ton sub

If you listen to the RS Security Scan, S3 (Arighat) is already 12 to 13K Tonnes with a complement of 8 K4s.
Cannot be that size, S3 is a clone of S2 - Arihant. Where is the reactor to power a 13K ton sub?

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby kit » 16 Dec 2019 10:06

Ankit Desai wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:No public news on 6 SSNs being planned.


Work begins on India’s next gen nuclear-powered submarines

Work has started on the Rs 1 lakh crore project to produce next generation nuclear-powered submarines for the Indian Navy, with a defence public sector unit working on a special alloy for the hull. A scale model is likely to be tested soon as part of the design process.

The project to build advanced nuclear submarines designed for longrange underwater patrols and armed with conventional weapons has been granted over Rs 100 crore seed money by the government for the initial phase with officials predicting a development period that is expected to stretch beyond 2025. The plan to build six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) kicked off in 2015 when the NDA government gave a go ahead to a long-pending project for the Indian Navy. Then Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba confirmed in 2017 that the project is underway.

Sources said considerable progress has been made in the design phase of the new boats with a scale model likely to be fabricated and tested shortly.
.........


-Ankit


This project started a while back if i remember right, under direct supervision of PMO

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby kit » 16 Dec 2019 10:09

SSridhar wrote:
Barath wrote:A report from a couple of years ago talked about S5 as 13500 ton sub

If you listen to the RS Security Scan, S3 (Arighat) is already 12 to 13K Tonnes with a complement of 8 K4s.


Sandeep s IT article mentions the S5 as a full-blown SSBN on par with the Triumphant . That article was the first mention of the S series.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Karthik S » 16 Dec 2019 16:21

I hope the 13k tonne vessels we build should be able to accommodate K6 SLBMs, we'll have credible deterrence only when we have a 6000 km range SLBM in our subs at the very least.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Karthik S » 18 Dec 2019 20:27

SSridhar wrote:
Barath wrote:A report from a couple of years ago talked about S5 as 13500 ton sub

If you listen to the RS Security Scan, S3 (Arighat) is already 12 to 13K Tonnes with a complement of 8 K4s.


Is 13500 surfaced or submerged displacement? If it's submerged, then the surfaced will be around 11000 T.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Supratik » 18 Dec 2019 22:52

It is 1000 tonnes more than Arihant to fit in 4 additional tubes. 13000 tonnes will be from S5.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Rakesh » 03 Jan 2020 05:33

Just read the thread....too long to post every tweet....

https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 9582671872

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Karthik S » 03 Jan 2020 12:46

It will come when the current akula has to go back. We'll operate only 1 akula at a given time.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby kit » 03 Jan 2020 14:25

Image

Sandeep's original article

Sandeep Unnithan. Exec Editor, India Today who was first broke stories on development of INS Arihant and development of K-15 and K-4 Submarine Launched Ballistic missile has revealed, more about India’s Nuclear Submarine Plans and has confirmed that INS Aridhaman which will be India’s Second Ballistic Missile Submarine will be stretched Arihant Class ship which has double the Missile carrying capabilities and is unlikely to be called Arihant sister ship rather will be known as Aridhaman lead ship of a new SSBN Class .

Sister ship of Aridhaman which will be similar to the lead ship Aridhaman currently is designated as S4 and another follow on Sister Class dubbed as S4* (Plus) will make up Three Aridhaman Ballistic Missile Class Submarine fleet of Indian Navy.

Unnithan also confirms that India Navy already has started working on the successor of Aridhaman Ballistic Missile Class Submarine at least a decade ago and new larger Ballistic Missile Class which will be designated as S5 and will be as big as Ohio class nuclear-powered submarines currently used by the United States Navy. It is unclear how many S5 sister class ships will be developed at this point in time but the construction of the new class of SSBN is yet to commence and it is likely will go on the floor for nearly a decade from now.



India will be having a fleet of following numbers of Nuclear Submarines in near future :
1 SSBN’s of Arihant Class +3 SSBN’s of Aridhaman Class + S5 SSBN’s apart from 6 new SSN’s + INS Chakra and 1 more to be leased from Russia.

Last year Indian Navy was given go head to start design work on the development of Six new Nuclear attack Class Submarines which will be developed in parallel to the Ballistic Missile Class Submarine Fleet so that work on both the projects will continue independently.

Unnamed Six Nuclear attack Class Submarines SSN are required to be much stealthier to do sneak attack and surveillance roles and it is reported that construction of Scorpene class Diesel attack submarines in India has helped Naval Design Bureau a lot in obtaining technical know how to better understand and develop stealthier hull.

The SSN are designed to track down and defeat both, the SSBN and the enemy aggression. These submarines are used in the attack of particular targets on land by the launch of the fast missiles by use of the torpedo tubes.

The Submersible Ship Nuclear carries the cruise missile with explosives which are used to attack the assailants within the shores. The other purpose of the submarine ship is to conduct surveillance, perform and complete intelligence missions, so they can offer aid in highly classified operations. The size of this ship is moderately big. The SSN is used to make attacks to assailants in the nearby distance. It is considered war prone and looks for enemy ships to destroy them

INS Aridhaman

INS Aridhaman is the second Arihant-class submarine.She is the second nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine being built by India. She is being built under the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project to build nuclear submarines at the Ship Building Centre in Visakhapatnam. This submarine will have double the number of missile hatches than its predecessor INS

Arihant giving it the ability to carry more missiles. This will have a more powerful reactor than its predecessor.

What makes INS Aridhaman more deadlier than its predecessor INS Arihant :::

INS Aridhaman is the second nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine being built by India. She is being built under the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project to build nuclear submarines at the Ship Building Centre in Visakhapatnam. Even though the same class as INS Arihant, she will feature 8 launch tubes instead of the 4 giving her double the firepower of Arihant. Thus she could carry 24 K-15 Sagarika short range SLBMs or 8 K-4 long range SLBMs.

She will also feature more powerful reactor than her predecessor.

The boat will have a seven-blade propeller powered by a pressurised water reactor. She can achieve a maximum speed of 12–15 knots (22–28 km/h) on water surface and 24 knots (44 km/h) underwater.

The submarine has eight launch tubes in its hump. She can carry up to 24 K-15 Sagarika missiles (each with a range of 750 km or 470 mi), or 8 of the under-development K-4 missiles (with a range of 3,500 km or 2,200 mi).

INS Aridhaman will be fitted with the sonar ISS (Integrated Sonar Suite), state-of-the-art sonar developed by NPOL DRDO. It is a unified submarine sonar and tactical control system, which includes all types of sonar (passive, surveillance, ranging, intercept, obstacle avoidance and active). It also features an underwater communications system. The hull features twin flank-array sonars and Rafael broadband expendable anti-torpedo countermeasures.

To accommodate this expanding fleet, work is underway on a new naval base on India’s Eastern Coast at Rambilli in the state of Andhra Pradesh, called INS Varsha. The new base is specifically designed to host nuclear submarines, both SSBNs and SSNs, and is only 50 km away from the port city of Vishakhapatnam that is home to the Shipbuilding Centre (SBC) that integrates India’s nuclear submarines. This base will likely feature de-gaussing facilities as well as underground submarine pens linked to open water by access tunnels. The onset of a deep diving nuclear submarine fleet has also played a role in

India’s Cabinet Committee of Security according final approval to a long pending proposal for the procurement of two deep submergence rescue vessels (DSRVs). The two new DSRVs cleared for procurement from a U.K.-based firm will be hosted by two new submarine tender ships currently under construction at a public shipyard. India last operated a DSRV in 1989 called INS Nistar when it had just started operating its first nuclear boat, a Charlie class SSN leased from the Soviet Union.

Like China’s massive nuclear submarine base at Hainan Island, the depth of water at Rambilli will allow submarines to use the base without being detected by satellites. This secrecy is crucial for SSBNs, which must remain undetected when they leave for months long patrols, carrying nuclear tipped ballistic missiles.

For years, the ministry of defence (MoD) has refused to acknowledge the existence of the base.

While the Arihant will naturally serve as a training platform for crews that will man its successor boats, just as the Chakra has been used to train the Arihant’s crew, like the latter it too will perform direct security missions. The Arihant’s reactor could be considered to be similar to late second generation VM series submarine reactors given acknowledged Russian assistance in this sphere. Such reactors needed refueling every 7-10 years at normal power consumption levels and the core lifetimes are sufficient for up to 5000 hours of journeying. This would be adequate for limited deterrence missions in potential patrol areas. Indeed, as the then IN Chief of Staff, Nirmal Verma stated in 2010, “India’s nuclear triad is there when it is commissioned,” indicating clear intent to mount deterrence patrols using the Arihant.

At the time of the Arihant’s launch in 2009, the outgoing Russian ambassador to India, Vyacheslav Trubinikov, noted that its design was based on the Akula class boats. Now if this were a reference to the Arihant’s level of quietening, it could mean that the boat was quieter than both China’s Shang Class SSNs as well as its Jin Class SSBN’s, if one were to go by the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence’s 2009 rankings about the degree of stealth exhibited by these boats. In any event, active noise cancellation technologies are likely to find their way into the Arihant’s successors, making them more difficult to detect

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby LakshmanPST » 03 Jan 2020 21:58

^^^Isn't INS Arighat the 2nd SSBN in Arihant class and is currently undergoing trails...??? But there is no mention of it in the article...

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Philip » 04 Jan 2020 09:27

A "leak" in an Ru media clip has given an insight into Russia's next SSN class being called the " Laika" class. Smaller and less costly than the Severodvinsk/Yasen.Features reportedly conformal sonars,Kalibir,Yakhont and Zircon (hyper) missiles,etc. This design could be a model for our planned SSN designs which are yet to surface.

Our planned SSNs will carry BMos variants,Nirbhay LRCMs and also in future BMos-H. Perhaps Kalibir too may be on offer.A smaller sub than the Akula class is needed with more automation,smaller crew and new sub-tech inputs. The reactor could be the same as late model Arihant class SSBNs.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Vivek K » 04 Jan 2020 10:14

Philip wrote:A "leak" in an Ru media clip has given an insight into Russia's next SSN class being called the " Laika" class. Smaller and less costly than the Severodvinsk/Yasen.Features reportedly conformal sonars,Kalibir,Yakhont and Zircon (hyper) missiles,etc. This design could be a model for our planned SSN designs which are yet to surface.

Our planned SSNs will carry BMos variants,Nirbhay LRCMs and also in future BMos-H. Perhaps Kalibir too may be on offer.A smaller sub than the Akula class is needed with more automation,smaller crew and new sub-tech inputs. The reactor could be the same as late model Arihant class SSBNs.

Can this be moved to the relevant thread please? Russian Tech thread or international navies thread?

The Arighat had appeared out of nowhere so can it be the SSN class? It was always speculated that S4 - Aridhaman was in the water but it was being called the Arighat. Part of the smokescreens perhaps?

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Philip » 04 Jan 2020 15:06

Arighat can't for several reasons.Philosophy of design quite different. SSNs need to be faster and equipped with a variety of weaponry to take out multiple targets, plus have room for spl. forces and their eqpt. They also require extra sensors for detection of enemy subs.SSBNs on the other hand need to quietly hide in z bastion or somd remote UW area of the ocean

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby nachiket » 07 Feb 2020 01:09

Philip, move your post about the Russian nuke sub to the Russian weapons thread or I will delete it. This thread is about Indian Nuclear Submarines.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby wig » 21 Feb 2020 13:02

India’s Rs 1.2 lakh crore nuclear submarine project closer to realisation
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 234776.cms
21 Feb 2020

The plan to build six advanced attack submarines — to be nuclear powered but armed with conventional missiles and torpedoes — is being monitored closely and the first of the boats could roll out in a decade if things go as per plan.

and
The timing of the critical clearances coincides with the pace of current work at the Ship Building Centre (SBC) in Visakhapatnam, where the Arihant class of nucleararmed submarines are being built. Major structural work on the fourth of the class is nearing completion and the centre would be able to take on work for the next generation of vessels as early as next year, if need be. Though this is unlikely as the developmental phase will take longer.

Sources said the second of the Arihant class — the slightly bigger and better-armed INS Arighat — is expected to be commissioned this year, adding teeth to India’s nuclear deterrence. Two follow-on boats after that are likely to enter service before 2024.

This would leave SBC with adequate space and resources to commence building the next generation of nuclear-attack submarines. While the Arihant project took over two decades to fructify, the next generation submarines are likely to progress at half the given time as adequate experience is now available, both in terms of design and construction of nuclear submarines.

As reported by ET, work on the submarine project gained pace last year with a defence public sector unit working on a special metal alloy for the hull and testing of a scale model as part of the design process. The plan to build six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) kicked off in 2015 when the NDA government gave a go ahead to a long-pending project for the Indian Navy.

India and Russia have also signed a $3 billion deal to lease an advanced nuclear attack submarine that will be fitted with indigenous communication systems and sensors. This submarine will fill in the gap and will be used for crew training before the indigenous boats are pressed into service.
Nuclear attack submarines — powered by a nuclear reactor but armed with conventional weapons — will give India a significant strike

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2020 22:55

Twitter thread on follow on Akula lease. Click on link below....

https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 33573?s=20 ----> Russia and India have agreed to lease an Akula class sub to the Indian Navy for 10 years to be inducted as Chakra III possibly from 2025 onwards to replace the Chakra II submarine already in service with Indian Navy from 2012. K-322 Kashalot which was commissioned in the pacific....

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby yensoy » 21 Feb 2020 23:43

Kash-a-lot, says a lot about the terms & conditions of the lease!

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Philip » 22 Feb 2020 08:40

Yes,it's a-lot-of-kash! The price may cover other unspecified items as our N-sub programmes are the most secret of all programmes.
There was a media report not too long ago that yet another modified Akula may be leased giving us an interim capability witth at least 3 SSGNs until the next decade when the SSNs arrive.

The SSNs config. can only be speculated about as no hard info. will ever be revealed. However,the latest trends in N-subs could give us a clue. VLS cells for launching various missiles like BMos and BMos-H and Kalibir in the future,LRCMs from the tubes,rocket torpedoes like Shkval.There may be two sizes too for future missile/ torpedo designs. Given the covert ops being carried out by special forces from subs, there may be specialised UW vehicles for the same along with UUVs for surveillance,mine detection , undersea cable tapping,etc. The latest USN's laser weaponry fitted to the optronic masts using the huge power of the N-reactor , the system for use against ASW helos,aircraft,drones,etc.is being fitted aboard all its new SSNs.
This would require an SSN of around 8,000t to carry a payload of between 30 to 40 weapons. The reactor should also give the sub a top speed of 35+ kts. As for sensors, the sub may have a spjerical bow sonar with conformal arrays,requiring an amidships torpedo section as in US subs, or retain the classic config. with a series of external/ conformal arrays,towed array,etc. If Ru assistance is to come,as with our SSBN programme, it's latest Husky SSN being developed ,smaller than an Akula could be a model in some measure for our boat.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2020 08:53

Wig
Until India makes own nuke attack subs it will be a lot of cash out.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Rakesh » 22 Feb 2020 19:54

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/123 ... 97377?s=20 ----> Crucial steps by GoI on SSNs development. The initial design phase for the new boats has progressed successfully and more resources will now be deployed to move to the more complex detailed design and construction to be undertaken by the Directorate of Naval+DRDO.

Image

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Vivek K » 22 Feb 2020 22:12

ramana wrote:Wig
Until India makes own nuke attack subs it will be a lot of cash out.

INS Kashalot ( is the name for real?)

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Rakesh » 22 Feb 2020 22:18

Kashalot is the name of the boat in Russian service. She is an Akula-I Class vessel. If and when the deal concludes, she will have a different name in Indian Navy service. Perhaps as INS Chakra only.

INS Chakra-I was K-43 (Charlie-I Class)

INS Chakra-II is the Nerpa and will stay in service till 2022.

INS Chakra-III will be the Kashalot.

The Kashalot will be an Akula-I only in name though. She will be retrofitted with Russian and Indian systems, much of which is classified. She will be a modern boat well suited for Indian needs. She was originally commissioned in 1988, but lies in reserve.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Philip » 23 Feb 2020 02:40

In 2018 both the Bratsk and Samara,2 Akulas, were moved to the Severodvinsk yard.Both had been inspected by the IN for a choice for the C-3. The deal is reported to have been concluded with some reports saying that we want a third given our SSN delay.
Confucious prevails?

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby dinesha » 06 Apr 2020 16:48

Navy sailor dies in accident onboard under-construction nuclear submarine
https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2020/ ... lear-.html
Four Arihant class nuclear submarines are based at Vizag, while the first submarine INS Arihant was commissioned in August 2016. In 2017, the second boat of the Arihant class—the bigger, improved and better-armed INS Arighat—was launched and presently undergoing sea-trials. Remaining two submarines of the class are under construction. Naval sources expect that all four Arihant class submarines can be commissioned by 2023.

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby dinesh_kimar » 06 Apr 2020 17:53

Whoopie!!!

4 Arihant class subs by 2023!!!

Also, from the Indian SSN studies shown above it has X tail configuration, clean streamlined hull.Looks like Scorpene influence, single hull type.

Easier shape to construct than say double hulled Akula with small pod to hold towed array sonar?

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Re: Indian Nuclear Submarines -3

Postby Indranil » 06 Apr 2020 18:03

This project precedes the Scorpenes by a big margin. It was designed and built with considerable Russian help.


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