Pathankot AirForce base under attack

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habal
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby habal » 02 Jan 2016 21:09

One very easy way to retaliate is to increase presence in Afghanistan each time a terror attack on India occurs. Humiliating TSPA before its admiring pakjabi citizenry is best option but this comes close next one would presume. Air strike on Masood Azhar's compound could also be done but it is better to strike Masood Azhar's godfathers sitting in Aabpara rather than that porky fatso.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rsingh » 02 Jan 2016 21:11

habal wrote:you have to investigate role of SP of border district in drugs smuggling and facilitation. As is known drugs come in via pakistan and drugs route is used by terrorists as well.
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Why to kill driver? May be he knew too much.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya G » 02 Jan 2016 21:16

For a change media and GOI PR machinery has been very restrained. Not too many pics around.

C-130J was shown orbiting the location. Probably using its Saffire EO pods for recce.

These boys seems to be AF Police:

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PP SWAT. Sorry but these guys look like regular thullas with BPJ and imported guns.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Picklu » 02 Jan 2016 21:24

For those who can read bengali, more details here

Looks like SP and friend were not identified and hence got out alive. The pigs probably did not want to raise alert early and hence gave impression of carjacking.

The driver could have alerted authorities near the final place of attack and hence killed before the main operation.

The pigs carjacked another innova before from J&K and reached Punjab using the same. The unfortunate owner of the innova were also killed and left near the abandoned SUV of the SP before the final operation .
Last edited by Picklu on 02 Jan 2016 21:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya G » 02 Jan 2016 21:28

Pics from the Indian Express:

The Hind seems to be equipped with gun pods. Note the protected gun mount on the Casspir.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby sunilUpa » 02 Jan 2016 21:31

nitin ghokhale confirms ; 5 DSC personnel martyred, with 3 succumbing to injuries.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jan 2016 21:32

^^^One can make out a C-130 in the Mi-35 pic in the background.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Picklu » 02 Jan 2016 21:32

One of the motive could be to attack & destroy the Mi35 - 4 of which have been given to Afg by India recently. The pigs are high on symbol.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby sunilUpa » 02 Jan 2016 21:36

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 0968721408
Stories of bravery emerging from Pathankot:1DSC man ran after a terrorists, caught & killed him with his own gun before being shot by others

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 6242660352

The martyred Garud(IAF commando), is being talked about as the main saviour. His unspecified bravery saved a major disaster apparently

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya G » 02 Jan 2016 21:43

rohitvats wrote:^^^One can make out a C-130 in the Mi-35 pic in the background.


On news it seemed that the C-130 was orbiting the site.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby sunilUpa » 02 Jan 2016 21:44

Pathankot terror attack: Pre-positioned Crack counter militant troops, NSG minimized damage
By Manu Pubby,


NEW DELHI: Crack counter militant troops and a NSG team prepositioned at the Pathankot air base in anticipation of an attack contained the terror strike, minimizing damage to the installation as well as preventing them from entering the technical area that houses fighter aircraft and choppers.

Sources monitoring the operations at Pathankot have told ET that troops from the 11 JAK RIF regiment were moved in to the airbase on Friday night, hours before the fidayeen attack took place. These troops, who were accompanied by NSG commandoes flown in specially after intelligence inputs of a terror attack, were instrumental in containing the damage.

While details are yet to come in, valiant accounts have been received of at least six soldiers - three from the Army and NSG each - who received grenade splinter injuries but went right back to combing operations after minimal first aid on the spot.


"All the fatal casualties occurred at the entry point when the terrorists fired while getting in. DSC guards and a Garud commando at the point were killed in the initial firing. One of the terrorists also died during entry. The remaining three were killed in subsequent army and NSG operations," a senior official told ET.
Last edited by sunilUpa on 02 Jan 2016 21:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SwamyG » 02 Jan 2016 21:48

shiv wrote:From TV news:

Possible Punjab Police cock up leading to some delay but security forces were alerted

1. Yesterday 9 AM a police SP was abducted by 5 men in army uniforms. Later released
2. By 10 AM the driver of a second car (taxi) was killed by 5 men. Civilians alleged terror attack. Police denied
3. 11 AM driver body found. Civilians start protest demanding that a terror alert be instituted.
4. Belatedly a terror alert goes out and security beefed up in Pathankot region
5. 3 AM today Air Base attack starts - 16 -17 hours after death of taxi driver and 5 men having been seens
6. By 9 AM - 4 attackers dead. Search continues for 5th based on reports of 5 men
7. Modus operandi same as Gurdaspur


If security was increased, how did the terrorists get into the base? Were all the phone intercepts after they got into the base?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Gyan » 02 Jan 2016 21:59

habal wrote:you have to investigate role of SP of border district in drugs smuggling and facilitation. As is known drugs come in via pakistan and drugs route is used by terrorists as well.
Image


The lessons that should be learnt would be drowned in orchestrated chorus of support for the nation. We no doubt support our soldiers but will the politicos/babus/Jarnails learn from mistakes?

It seems 300 NSG personnel and 400 Para commandoes plus heavy deployment of infantry, police, DSC, Garuds and still the attack went ahead and we lost 5 persons.

There seems to be Serious lack of night domination equipment and SP story is very very odd. He practically escorted/gave his car for transportation to IAF base. The issue of drug business should be examined carefully.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby sudeepj » 02 Jan 2016 22:00

52mm mortar is a small mortar, with a range of about 500 meters. The terrorists probably wanted to use the mortar on any planes they found parked in the open. As soon as they got a visible on the planes within 500 meters, they would have started using the mortar.

Any open retaliation by India is ruled out because of economic repercussions. Any hidden retaliation by India will by its nature remain hidden. And for diplomatic reasons, some level of contact between GoI and Pak is also necessary. Even if its just to reassure the foreign investors that we are not entering into a war situation.

If retaining 'nak' was a concern and we wanted to pay back Pak blow for blow, I would say, the only way out is to arm and prop up MQM and or nationalist Pashtoon in FATA. The Baloch have been reduced to a minority in their own land and any armed movement there will be visiting a massacre on them. Very tough decisions..

Its fine to fulminate and be brave on a forum, but very difficult to move when you feel the hand of history on your shoulder.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby sunilUpa » 02 Jan 2016 22:05

The NSG and JAK RIF were guarding the technical area, perimeter being taken care by DSC and Garud. All casualties happened at at the entry point.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Amber G. » 02 Jan 2016 22:12

From theHindu
Following are some of the terror—related incidents that have taken place in Punjab between 2001 and 2016 (these do not include seizure of arms and ammunition during the period).

1 March 1, 2001: A 135—yard underground tunnel detected across India—Pakistan border in Punjab’s Gurdaspur district.
2 Jan 1, 2002: Three Army personnel killed and five others injured when a group of unidentified terrorists attacks them at a firing range in Damtal, close to Punjab’s border with Himachal Pradesh.
3 Jan 31, 2002: Two persons killed and 12 others injured in explosion in a Punjab Roadways bus at Patrana in Hoshiarpur district.
4 March 31, 2002: Two people are killed and 28 others injured in a bomb blast on Ferozepur—Dhanbad express train at Daroha, about 20km from Ludhiana.
5 Apr 28, 2006: At least eight persons are wounded in a bomb blast on a bus carrying 45 passengers at Jalandhar bus terminus.
6 Oct 14, 2007: Seven persons, including a 10—year old child, are killed and 40 others injured in a bomb blast in a cinema hall in Ludhiana.
7 July 27, 2015: Seven people, including a Punjab Police Superintendent, killed when three terrorists carry out a strike on a police station in Gurdaspur district. All three militants also killed.
8 Jan 2, 2016: Four terrorists and three security personnel killed when militants storm IAF base in Pathankot.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya G » 02 Jan 2016 22:16

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/com ... ngyDM.html

Former International rifle shooter Subedar Major (Retd) Fateh Singh, who won a gold and silver for India at the 1st Commonwealth Shooting Championship in the capital back in 1995, was killed on Saturday while fighting terrorists in Pathankot.

Singh was 51-years-old and was part of the Defence Security Corps (DSC). He was posted with the Dogra regiment.

National Rifle Association of India (NRAI) has condoled Singh’s death who lost his life while fighting for his motherland.

“Subedar Fateh Singh sacrificed his life while fighting for his motherland at Air Base Pathankot today during an attack of militants. Subedar Fateh Singh was a legendary Big Bore shooter. He won Gold and a Silver medal during 1st Commonwealth Shooting Championship held at New Delhi in 1995,” the release stated.

NRAI president Raninder Singh said: “ The country has lost its beloved son and a sharp shooter. May Almighty grant peace to the Great Soldier.

The Shooting fraternity pray for the departed soul and hope the Almighty give strength to the family of this great soldier to bear with their irreparable loss.”

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby NRao » 02 Jan 2016 22:23

There are multiple crimes here and one attack. They all need to be answered.

1. Kidnapping a SP (of police)
2. Stealing his official vehicle
3. Killing an Indian national, by sliting his throat
4. Attacking a base
5. Killing and injuring service personal

6. Cost of operations

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby NRao » 02 Jan 2016 22:33

The response has to be painful, with various parties told to keep out. Not their quarell.

ISI needs to feel the pain.

Not sure if people have observed, paki head of state General Raheel Sharif (no relation to the PM), HAS ISSUED "Ww will get rid of terrorists in 2016". Insha Allah!!!!! And there in lies the problem. Either the memo does not reach that Allha or that Allah likes terrorists. Fortunately this problem is fixable.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Satya_anveshi » 02 Jan 2016 22:33

As always just our existence itself is motivation enough for some rabid fundamentalists (which is basically a large section of Pukistan) to come and plunder. This penchant to plunder increases from left to right below

Our continued existence << Our relative Prosperity << Our relative Happiness << Our relative situational control;

Different demographics within Pukistan react differently to these Indian situations.

- Aam abdul in Pak just need our continued existence to be motivated for attack

- Middle class in Pak will become more rabid when they see us prosper (because class is relative; the more we prosper on relative basis, their middle class resembles low class)

- Elite/Intellectual class in Pak will not mind giving open calls for India to pay the price of 'imbalance' if we are seen as happy (similar to above, if we are happy and prosperous on relative basis, their intellectual class has failed and proved incompetent so will go back to roots of being aam abduls)

- Finally, their military and their sponsors will not want us to be in control.

The last was the case when Modi dictated the situation with his unscheduled visit to Pakistan to attend the marriage of PM Nawaz Sharif's daughter.

I believe this has more to do with paki military and its sponsors who are not ready for any such thaw in relationship, let alone loss of control forget about reconciliation. So, the reaction needed to be swift. If this suggestion has any weight, then pakjab will face a much bigger attack in the coming weeks so as to undo any such damage to the balance of the situation.

Land is the only thing permanent; Loss of leadership among the formal or informal forces is second best. For every such attack on India, Pak must lose one or both of the two on continuous basis.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_20453 » 02 Jan 2016 22:36

The lessons that should be learnt would be drowned in orchestrated chorus of support for the nation. We no doubt support our soldiers but will the politicos/babus/Jarnails learn from mistakes?

It seems 300 NSG personnel and 400 Para commandoes plus heavy deployment of infantry, police, DSC, Garuds and still the attack went ahead and we lost 5 persons.

There seems to be Serious lack of night domination equipment and SP story is very very odd. He practically escorted/gave his car for transportation to IAF base. The issue of drug business should be examined carefully.[/quote]

Where do you get the info that 300 NSG and 400 Paras were around, no way this is the case, 400 paras equals 1/2 a battallion, no way such a huge troop concentration was there. Same goes for NSG. I would say all in all a couple of NSG platoons and around a company of infantry at best.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby RoyG » 02 Jan 2016 22:46

Sounds like we have some serious issues if after fortifying the base, they still managed to get through and pick off our guys. It's possible that they could have exited the hijacked SP vehicle some distance outside the base and managed to get close enough with the help of army fatigues and blitzed the base with grenades and automatic fire. Do we have some sort of identity validation protocol in times like this?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Karan M » 02 Jan 2016 22:51

Most of our bases have army folks standing in either flimsy posts or with minimal protection. We really need to invest in enhanced security features for the base personnel standing at guard.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby deejay » 02 Jan 2016 22:56

sudeepj wrote:52mm mortar is a small mortar, with a range of about 500 meters. The terrorists probably wanted to use the mortar on any planes they found parked in the open. As soon as they got a visible on the planes within 500 meters, they would have started using the mortar.

Any open retaliation by India is ruled out because of economic repercussions. Any hidden retaliation by India will by its nature remain hidden. And for diplomatic reasons, some level of contact between GoI and Pak is also necessary. Even if its just to reassure the foreign investors that we are not entering into a war situation.

If retaining 'nak' was a concern and we wanted to pay back Pak blow for blow, I would say, the only way out is to arm and prop up MQM and or nationalist Pashtoon in FATA. The Baloch have been reduced to a minority in their own land and any armed movement there will be visiting a massacre on them. Very tough decisions..

Its fine to fulminate and be brave on a forum, but very difficult to move when you feel the hand of history on your shoulder.


Excellent points.

Economic considerations are very important.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Karan M » 02 Jan 2016 23:01

Covert and not so covert ops to make the same thing occur 10x in TSP land are the only way to make the sh!ts from ISI and its jihadis see sense.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jan 2016 23:05

It is likely that Army SF personnel and NSG were moved to Pathankot AF station as central node to respond quickly to attack in general area. The actual security beef up of AF station was the two infantry platoons deployed for securing technical area. There is a whole infantry division worth of troops in Pathankot. IAF/IA could've moved a whole infantry battalion for securing the perimeter as well. I don't know why that was not done.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Virupaksha » 02 Jan 2016 23:06

Karan M wrote:Most of our bases have army folks standing in either flimsy posts or with minimal protection. We really need to invest in enhanced security features for the base personnel standing at guard.

There will always be too many nodes/posts/centres to protect. THat is a band aid

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Gyan » 02 Jan 2016 23:08

I think we have learnt from 1999, 2001-2, 2006, 2008 etc that we have no action plan for conventional military retaliation. I think Politicians have probably given up asking Jarnails to retaliate. Typewriter would have already started klicking in Service HQs typing lists for Gold plated imports.

The actual and real but limited retaliation will take place by local Army commanders ie Brigadier level and below.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SSundar » 02 Jan 2016 23:10

So far, Modi and the GoI have reacted well - keeping the focus on the bravery of our soldiers and clearly tagging the attackers as terrorists. There has been no mention of Pakistan, retaliation, the peace process or India's 'patience should not be taken for granted'. This is a good start. Isloo will now be sure that there will be retaliation. They may be optimistic that a retaliation will happen soon and be prepared to kick our butts and deal a double whammy. Knowing Modi, Rajnath and Doval, we can rest easy that the retaliation will be well thought out and well timed.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Picklu » 02 Jan 2016 23:11

rohitvats wrote: IAF/IA could've moved a whole infantry battalion for securing the perimeter as well. I don't know why that was not done.


The expendable light infantry is always vanguard for the same reason. smart money.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jan 2016 23:13

^^^ couldn't get you?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Picklu » 02 Jan 2016 23:16

I think we are missing the forest for the trees. When Mushy came, Kargil happened. When Kiya nahi came, 26/11 happened. Raheel has come for sometime and no major attack has happened. Should not compare Gurdaspur and Pathankot with those earlier proclaimations of virility! These are not even at kaluchak level.

We need to realize that pakis have a terrible khujli to show defiance and hence would do something or other from time to time - talk or no talk. Hence we need to have talk to gain various benefits but also in the meantime pay back with massive slaps for each perfidy so that the show of defiance becomes pin prick over the time. And looks like that is happening.
Last edited by Picklu on 02 Jan 2016 23:22, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SwamyG » 02 Jan 2016 23:16


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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Picklu » 02 Jan 2016 23:19

rohitvats wrote:^^^ couldn't get you?


Given the nature of the defense & number of targets, it is almost impossible to prevent casualty at the perimeter during initial contact. Hence the cold blooded usage of DSC as (relatively) expendable man power with sprinkling of Garud to stiffen the spine. And holding back the precious targets out of the harms way and manpower at reserve for quick response once the surprise is gone.
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SSundar » 02 Jan 2016 23:25



The Chindu had to use the "militant" word in their graphic, didn't they?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Karan M » 02 Jan 2016 23:31

Virupaksha wrote:
Karan M wrote:Most of our bases have army folks standing in either flimsy posts or with minimal protection. We really need to invest in enhanced security features for the base personnel standing at guard.

There will always be too many nodes/posts/centres to protect. THat is a band aid


You are right that constantly getting attacked by itself opens up issues, but we have to try and reduce the # of casualties at the opening phase. If that means we have HESCO style setups and bunkers at prominent areas, so be it. Might move these jihadis to attack even weaker urban targets, malls etc. The decision not to do so for now, is clearly deliberate. Its meant to provoke, but not all out war.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Karan M » 02 Jan 2016 23:33

Picklu wrote:
rohitvats wrote:^^^ couldn't get you?


Given the nature of the defense & number of targets, it is almost impossible to prevent casualty at the perimeter during initial contact. Hence the cold blooded usage of DSC as (relatively) expendable man power with sprinkling of Garud to stiffen the spine. And holding back the precious targets out of the harms way and manpower at reserve for quick response once the surprise is gone.


I dont think this is a deliberate "cold blooded policy" but just a reflection of times where threat profile was lower. In most airports etc we still see some ad hoc arrangements in some areas. In Mumbai airport, one place merely had a high podium with a few sandbags and an uncomfortable soldier propped on it. The crowd was right next to him and had to periodically step out and force people away. Our population density and lack of any sort of respect for rules and regulations makes security planning a nightmare.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_22733 » 02 Jan 2016 23:34

The terrorist talked to his mom on a call that was intercepted and she asked him to have food before he gets his 72 raisins.

This may sound rather cruel, but I think halaaling his mom and his entire family (like Israel does sometimes) is probably a good deterrent. A terrorist may hate Indians and not care for his life, but he may care about his family back home.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Picklu » 02 Jan 2016 23:45

Karan M wrote:
I dont think this is a deliberate "cold blooded policy" but just a reflection of times where threat profile was lower. In most airports etc we still see some ad hoc arrangements in some areas. In Mumbai airport, one place merely had a high podium with a few sandbags and an uncomfortable soldier propped on it. The crowd was right next to him and had to periodically step out and force people away. Our population density and lack of any sort of respect for rules and regulations makes security planning a nightmare.


Karan, it will not pass cost benefit analysis to splurge on perimeter defense beyond a point in any country in any age in any economy. Need to act smart for greater good. That may sound cold blooded but that is what it is. Triage is done in medical profession in equally cold blooded policy. I used the word vanguard for the same reason; historically it is the rag tag militia taking most risk and getting slaughtered at first contact but getting most of the spoil in loot phase of the campaign.

It is ITBP who protects the perimeter in our consulates in Afghanistan, not army personnel.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya G » 02 Jan 2016 23:56

SwamyG wrote:Courtesy: The Hindu - http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/m ... 058924.ece

]http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/02680/Pathankot_terror_g_2680824a.JPG]


Thanks

This report suggests that the jehadis did not meet any resistance at the perimeter. They scaled the wall and cut the barb wire.

So I will discount this graphic.


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