Pathankot AirForce base under attack

[Karan M]

Karan all the ICU injured appear to have dangerous wounds - or wounds in areas where there may be risk to life.

Yesterday I saw a report that 5 DSC and 1 Garud were killed right away and none were lost after that. Until today's grenade blast of course.

Sorry to hear that Shiv. I was hoping you would contradict me. These injuries will put these men in such turmoil for such a long time. India's chalta hain attitude has literally failed these men.

[Rishi]

TV pics of the 4 dead pigs show 1 RPG launcher along with AKs

[Kashi]

Wow 2 Garuds and 1 NSG among 14 dead so far. These jihadis knew what they were doing. They probably weren't SSG either. Pakistan isn't going to sacrifice its precious specialists just yet. Our whole security apparatus needs a revamp including special forces training. This is simply unacceptable given that alert was issued, IB monitoring, and base security had taken up a defensive position.

14 dead?

The security apparatus and the military-political leadership need to take a long hard look at themselves and so should some of the posters on BRF.

[Raja Bose]

Folks, can we stop putting our own spin on casualties and keep it within verified info. 1 NSG is KIA during IED defusing, 1 NSG in hospital probably from same incident (he is a K9 handler so probably was the handler for a bomb sniffing dog), 1 Garud KIA during initial QRT contact and rest of the KIA are DSC. If there are confirmed reports of a 2nd Garud KIA, please post it here otherwise stop speculating on half baked info.

[Karan M]

The nature of the Gun-Shot Wounds might hold a clue to what happened in the initial contact:

All the injuries suffered by DSC men are in the upper torso - Chest and Shoulders; IMO, these wounds were suffered as the terrorists fired at an unsuspecting security detail after initial break-in or when DSC+Garud rushed towards the initial contact point. The second scenario would mean what I had said earlier - after an initial group made contact, the second group lay waiting for QRT to respond and ambushed them.

The second round of casualties would be more from CQB.

IMHO, they just caught the DSC folks by surprise & ambushed them. QRT would have been IA SF or the IA army unit. Not the 50 year old DSC veterans (God bless them & their service).

[Karan M]

Folks, can we stop putting our own spin on casualties and keep it within verified info. 1 NSG is KIA during IED defusing, 1 NSG in hospital probably from same incident (he is a K9 handler so probably was the handler for a bomb sniffing dog), 1 Garud KIA during initial QRT contact and rest of the KIA are DSC. If there are confirmed reports of a 2nd Garud KIA, please post it here otherwise stop speculating on half baked info.

Yes, the 2nd NSG casualty is also mentioned as a splinter injury not GSW.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4ZSik ... dNaTg/view

The majority of casualties are the DSC folks.

[nits]

Wathing NDTV... As per Punjab DIG ( Vijay Pratap Singh) - 2 more terrorist are still in base and firing going between them and forces

[nirav]

Wathing NDTV... As per Punjab DIG ( Vijay Pratap Singh) - 2 more terrorist are still in base and firing going between them and forces

That puts the count at 6 pakis.

Earlier reports indicated 4 dead and 5 involved in the police officer kidnapping incident.

The 6th could be a sleeper.

[RoyG]

Changed to 10. We won't really know until its all finally over. We won't be able to counter the challenge posed by the Pakistan Army and its ISI arm unless we formulate some comprehensive national identity and strategy. Look at the speed at which Afghanistan is falling and how beautifully the ISI was able to take the fight to the Americans. We are clearly going up against a very powerful force and I think Modi got carried away. If he doesn't hit back he's going to be seen as a weakling. Kashmir is essentially a fortress but the rest of the states are sitting ducks.

[RoyG]

Wathing NDTV... As per Punjab DIG ( Vijay Pratap Singh) - 2 more terrorist are still in base and firing going between them and forces

That puts the count at 6 pakis.

Earlier reports indicated 4 dead and 5 involved in the police officer kidnapping incident.

The 6th could be a sleeper.

Insider helped coordinate attacks? Interesting angle.

[Raja Bose]

7 pakis, 5 halal'ed already.

[partha]

Wathing NDTV... As per Punjab DIG ( Vijay Pratap Singh) - 2 more terrorist are still in base and firing going between them and forces

That puts the count at 6 pakis.

Earlier reports indicated 4 dead and 5 involved in the police officer kidnapping incident.

The 6th could be a sleeper.

IB warning before the attack was about infiltration of 15-20 terrorists into Punjab. So in the worst case there could be more than 10 still at large. There was a report today about the possibility of 1 or 2 terrorists having entered Delhi.

[nirav]

News reports coming in of 1 paku being cornered.

I really hope he's caught alive and not halalled. Need to extricate as much Intel as possible from him.

[nits]

Sleeper will not be inside the base...they were 6 or more from start; i think they split up and choose to fire when forces thought they have killed all....

They have clear instructions to lengthen the whole thing so that they can get more publicity...

Seriously will all warnings; Intel; NSG; Garuds the # of Casualty we have suffered is painful... RIP

[member_28990]

All TV channels shouting that we want to catch the terrorists alive. Truly the fifth column in this country. No understanding, no restraint, puts our boy's lives in risk.

[Shanmukh]

All TV channels shouting that we want to catch the terrorists alive. Truly the fifth column in this country. No understanding, no restraint, puts our boy's lives in risk.

Who is saying they want to catch the terrorists alive? Names, please?

[nits]

and handlers wlll hear this and ask him to kill himself rather then getting caught alive... we seriously need some restrictions on this

[nits]

quick question... cant we use air assets for thermal imaging of whole base for combing operation and then target precisely or its not effective in day time ?

[Karan M]

Nits, they will be using everything they have, that you can be sure of.

[nits]

Nits, they will be using everything they have, that you can be sure of.

Sure sir; just want to understand is thermal imaging of use during day time ?

[deejay]

If RV is right and the attack is on the South side of AFS Pathankot, then they hit the Technical area and not the Residential Area. AFS are always split in two parts - Technical and Residential unless it is like AFS Jodhpur where there is no clearly demarcated Residential area.

Google Earth clearly shows south side is all Technical and nothing residential. Also, at the SE corner of the airfield is the Pathankot Civil Airport. On the South West side is the spread out 'penns' for parking aircraft. These parking areas continue on the West side till the northern side of the airfield. Residential areas of AFS Pathankot and MH are on the East & NE side of the airfield clearly seen on Google Earth.

Next, many buildings can be called Administrative building. It is too generic a term to deduce what type of building was exactly hit.

Finally, body count should not matter. IMO, a place in India, a place like any other Indian place, was attacked by the enemies of India. These attacks have been going on for many decades now. We did not react when the body count was 300 (appox) in 1993 or 167 in 2008. We just do not react whatever the body count. We have become too sullen, too comfortable and too enamoured to our cozy little worlds to even allow military options as part of a non GOI forum. I guess, the reactions in GOI and its offices will be more muted. They have the hand of history on their shoulders.

If there is an economic cost to war that has to be considered, then there is an economic cost of not fighting a war that must be considered. If in 1965 we had taken Lahore, if 1971 we had not handed over the POWs, if in 1948 we had retaken whole of Kashmir, if in 1999 we had gone the full distance...

Every day, every passing year the cost for fighting the war escalates and becomes more and more unacceptable. I am not advocating war but advocating a response which takes the fight into Pakistani Soil. As long as we fight on Indian soil Pakistanis do not feel the negative fallouts of killing Indians.

[Karan M]

Lt Col Niranjan Kumar (NSG) - MSM says he was from Kerala

[Karan M]

Nits, they will be using everything they have, that you can be sure of.

Sure sir; just want to understand is thermal imaging of use during day time ?

No sir please for me..

Yes it is useful in day time but depends on the context - if you don't have sufficient contrast (relative temperature gradients between target and surrounding) or there are obscurants or materials in between (eg glass) it is no longer as effective.

[Karan M]

If RV is right and the attack is on the South side of AFS Pathankot, then they hit the Technical area and not the Residential Area. AFS are always split in two parts - Technical and Residential unless it is like AFS Jodhpur where there is no clearly demarcated Residential area.

Google Earth clearly shows south side is all Technical and nothing residential. Also, at the SE corner of the airfield is the Pathankot Civil Airport. On the South West side is the spread out 'penns' for parking aircraft. These parking areas continue on the West side till the northern side of the airfield. Residential areas of AFS Pathankot and MH are on the East & NE side of the airfield clearly seen on Google Earth.

Next, many buildings can be called Administrative building. It is too generic a term to deduce what type of building was exactly hit.

Finally, body count should not matter. IMO, a place in India, a place like any other Indian place, was attacked by the enemies of India. These attacks have been going on for many decades now. We did not react when the body count was 300 (appox) in 1993 or 167 in 2008. We just do not react whatever the body count. We have become too sullen, too comfortable and too enamoured to our cozy little worlds to even allow military options as part of a non GOI forum. I guess, the reactions in GOI and its offices will be more muted. They have the hand of history on their shoulders.

If there is an economic cost to war that has to be considered, then there is an economic cost of not fighting a war that must be considered. If in 1965 we had taken Lahore, if 1971 we had not handed over the POWs, if in 1948 we had retaken whole of Kashmir, if in 1999 we had gone the full distance...

Every day, every passing year the cost for fighting the war escalates and becomes more and more unacceptable. I am not advocating war but advocating a response which takes the fight into Pakistani Soil. As long as we fight on Indian soil Pakistanis do not feel the negative fallouts of killing Indians.

Valid points as always.

The real question is do we have the kind of overwhelming dominance required to prosecute a war on our terms?

If not, how long do you perceive would it take to achieve it or a reasonable approximation.

[UlanBatori]

Tried to hold back posting on this but failed. I had to disagree with Spinster garu.

Pls to note:

Sources said it was possible that had the vehicle not suffered a tyre burst near Tajpur, the terrorists would travelled farther, and could have reached an ammunition dump a few kilometres from Dera Baba Nanak.

So what's the probability of that?

So tyres were not maintained, or they had sold the original tyres and put inferior retreads on. The main roads in Poonjab were so bad that a tyre burst at a critical time. Maybe a few broken bottles liberally spread on the main road. THESE have always been India's last line of dephenj.

Tippu Sultan's all-destroying sweep into Malloostan ended when he broke his leg negotiating the roads in Trissur. Q.E.D. British never conquered Malloostan for same reason: A few trips on Kozhikode roads with a few Close Encounters Of the Third Kind with KSRTC buses, and they decided to go back to Brixton and face the Pakis instead.

Sorry I know it is O.T., but so are most of the posts here now.... No offence, Karanji, but let me just frame your question to admire it:

real question is whether v have overwhelming dominance and how long it would take to prosecute such a war.

[member_28990]

the problem is endemic cowardice among our politicians and bureaucrats. rest all are excuses. really disappointed in NaMo

[deejay]

KaranM, we can do it today. We have sufficient conventional disparity to wage cross border action. Covert strike capability exists. Options of destablizing Pakistan in Balochistan, Sindh, NWFP or Gilgit Baltistan exist and are ripe for the taking.

Will to take it across is the only thing lacking and just the posts on the forum will show that it not limited to the political leadership.

[Tamang]

Why do we allow crowd to gather near such places. Why not impose curfew in surrounding areas, sanitize it to allow smooth movement of security personnel.

[Karan M]

Deejay, fair points. We tend to go by all the negative reportage of this missing, that not ideal.

[Karan M]

The slain scumbags apparently.



http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/path ... 61115.html

[pushkar.bhat]

The slain scumbags apparently.



http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/path ... 61115.html

Is that a large caliber Anti-material Rifle that I see? OMG

[Karan M]

Sorry I know it is O.T., but so are most of the posts here now.... No offence, Karanji, but let me just frame your question to admire it:

real question is whether v have overwhelming dominance and how long it would take to prosecute such a war.

I have no idea what you are trying to disseminate or point score at a time like this. There are serious opinions asking for a broader conflict to settle the issue. If so, there is the question as to whether India can wage it and succeed. Talk of Brahmos strikes and all is fine. But if there is a Kargil, the last thing to hear should be the COAS saying "we will fight with what we have".

My question was serious and addressed to somebody who has an idea of what the relative disparity is & he answered to the point. If you don't know, then that's one thing but lay off the sarcasm if that's what you intended. There are efforts underway, the question is one of relative disparity.

Also, spend some time on the military forum & read up on the efforts current GOI is undertaking to increase the pathetic state the prior Govt left the services kit in and the efforts underway to increase the AF's serviceability levels, IA's warfighting stocks & such basics & then consider. These are serious points, not just some comparison to some bus on some road or whutever.

[deejay]

A look at the picture, assuming they from AFS Pathankot encounter:
Young, less than 25 yrs. All look fairly intact so must have died of gun shots and not grenades. I counted 05 pair of legs though only 04 heads or am I imagining. Dead rat from the top - follow his legs - then another in different colour camo. All had beards no head gear close by, ranks missing - hard to confuse for Army for any kind of policeman.

These type of blankets are also commonly used by rebels and ISIS in Syria / Iraq.

Also, who put the pillow below the first guys head, hain ji?

[Karan M]

^^ Deejay, even I am wondering if India Today used a stock image from some TSP attack.

[UlanBatori]

Why do we allow crowd to gather near such places.

So that the terrorists can either melt into the crowd easier, or use some rubberneckers as hostages to kill more security people. Note that the terrorists NEVER target the likes of darka butt, only some innocents.
Ancient tradition.
There is a reason they call us Third-Worlders - v have to earn our insults every day.

So there are 4 carcasses shown. Was it the 5th that blew up from all the accumulated gas, and killed the Lt. Col? Even I (hu don't spend no time larning on MilForum becoz I get banned by the Serious Postors every time I , Sahib! ) remember enough incidents where soldiers (typically high-ranking aphsars) have been killed when they went on the Ophishial Inspecshun after a battle and kicked a dead Paki and hence removed the pin from a grenade. Sad that such tragedies recur, no disrespect for a heroism of the officer, but some questions about SOP.

How does one carry that huge gun? Surely it takes 2 ppl to do that?

[deejay]

^^ Deejay, even I am wondering if India Today used a stock image from some TSP attack.

If you ask me seriously, this looks like a shot of terrorist sleeping somewhere. Just look how they've opened their footwears and socks close by (all of them) and just look at the number of plastic bottles strewn around. Certainly, doesn't look like AFS Pathankot to me.

Not a single mark of injury on anyone.

[nits]

Just In - 5th Terrorist down as per NDTV; fight going on with 6th

[Karan M]

^^ Deejay, even I am wondering if India Today used a stock image from some TSP attack.

If you ask me seriously, this looks like a shot of terrorist sleeping somewhere. Just look how they've opened their footwears and socks close by (all of them) and just look at the number of plastic bottles strewn around. Certainly, doesn't look like AFS Pathankot to me.

Not a single mark of injury on anyone.

Plus the pillow. I agree, you are right. This is a fake image probably used by the India Today guys as clickbait.

[kvraghav]

There are 5 bodies in the picture. We can see only half body of the first one in the light desert cemo

[वरुण]

The slain scumbags apparently.



http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/path ... 61115.html

Fake. The image is from here:
https://twitter.com/WmedWr/status/615983266223362048

The translation says "liberation fighters resting after operations". Probably from Syria