Pathankot AirForce base under attack

[UlanBatori]

News on the NSG LTC's martyrdom:

A senior officer of the National Security Guard (NSG) was killed in an accidental explosion during combing operations at Pathankot air base on Sunday pushing the number of casualties among security forces to seven. The officer has been identified as Lt Col Niranjan.

Defence ministry officials said that it was an Improvised Explosive Device (IED) which went off during combing operations in the morning which killed Lt Col Niranjan and likely injuring few others.

Deccan Herald says:

Lt Col Niranjan, a member of the NSG's Bomb Disposal Squad, was killed while he was defusing the grenade at the scene of the terror attack as part of the combing operations that continued through the night. Four other security men were also injured in the blast.

Defence sources said Niranjan, a resident of Kerala, was killed while trying to retrieve the grenade from the body of a dead terrorist.

which is horribly close to the "repeated trick" diagnosis that bothered me, above. This is an old, old trick, used many times by the Pakis.

Anyway, how does one "defuse" a grenade after the pin has been pulled out?

[VikramS]

Dear Mongol:

IIRC even during 26/11 Major Unnikrishnan's body was booby trapped.

You need small robots to do this work. Bomb disposal robots cost less than $5000.

Should be easy to manufacture in India in numbers.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articl ... obots.html

http://www.themachinelab.com/Custom/MMP ... 0Specs.pdf

[VishalJ]

[jagga]

Punjabis have been saying for long that Punjab Police is hopelessly corrupt and complicit in drugs smuggling and wasting away youth of entire state. In return we called them khalistanis and answered their complaints with 'KPS Gill zindabad'.

Absolutely, there is so much anger in peoples mind , many Sikhs believe that GOI intentionally is not stopping the drug problem. They believe It's the nexus of GOI + BSF + Corrupt Local Politicians and their end game is to destroy Sikh youth and few think also to destroy religion. I have personally tried many times to explain GOI is not involved, they ask me back, then who is controlling BSF? Lots of finger pointing and paranoia. I can understand their sentiments, when they see kids becoming "zinda laash", families after families getting destroyed.
DRUG PROBLEM IS HUGE.

[nirav]

The 6th harami should be taken alive.
Cretin can give direct Intel ... Encounter him post interrogation ...

[Sridhar K]

Per TV the 6th vermin has been killed. 20% of the area is still to be sanitized.

[deejay]

The 6th harami should be taken alive.
Cretin can give direct Intel ... Encounter him post interrogation ...

How?

[Karan M]

Dear Mongol:

IIRC even during 26/11 Major Unnikrishnan's body was booby trapped.

You need small robots to do this work. Bomb disposal robots cost less than $5000.

Should be easy to manufacture in India in numbers.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articl ... obots.html

http://www.themachinelab.com/Custom/MMP ... 0Specs.pdf

We have bomb disposal robots in India, both imported and local (http://indianexpress.com/article/cities ... mechanism/).

Plus we dont know details, was the man gripping a grenade? Was it placed beside him triggered by some switch if you move the body..? We just don't know.

[VikramS]

Dear Mongol:

IIRC even during 26/11 Major Unnikrishnan's body was booby trapped.

You need small robots to do this work. Bomb disposal robots cost less than $5000.

Should be easy to manufacture in India in numbers.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articl ... obots.html

http://www.themachinelab.com/Custom/MMP ... 0Specs.pdf

We have bomb disposal robots in India, both imported and local (http://indianexpress.com/article/cities ... mechanism/).

Plus we dont know details, was the man gripping a grenade? Was it placed beside him triggered by some switch if you move the body..? We just don't know.

My point is that slain pigs too should be treated as a bomb. Let the robot disarm the jehadi; why does the HEAD of the bomb-disposal squad, a Lt. Col. no less have to go and disarm a dead jehadi?

[deejay]

^^^Read Thakur B's post on INSAS on the small arms thread where he writes down notes from conversation with ex soldiers.

[TSJones]

Anyway, how does one "defuse" a grenade after the pin has been pulled out?

by putting the pin back in, if you have it. otherwise a similar sized piece of wire that fits into the pin hole would work.

Sea stories for the Mongol.....

for most grenades. a two step process is used.

a. grasp the grande by wrapping your hand around the trigger handle.

b. while grasping the grenade and handle firmly, pull the pin.

c. make a decision that could change your life forever:

1. go ahead and throw the grenade releasing your grip on the handle at the same time. about seven seconds later the grenade should explode.

2. before you throw the grenade release the handle. wait about three seconds, then throw the grenade. the grenade *should* explode about four seconds later.

if you are a wily coyote or a terrorist, you pull the pin and keep the handle depressed (not released) and stick the grenade under a body so that pressure is still maintained on the handle. the grenade will not become activated until someone disturbs the body releasing the pressure on the handle, thus activating the grenade for the seven second count down to explosion.

I would point out that once the grenade countdown is activated there is no stopping it. replacing the pin or handle will not work.

I have never had to hold on to a grenade for three seconds before throwing it in practice. nor would I ever want to. that is a lot of trust to place on a low bidder, minimum wage, assembly line worker. in practice I've always played it safe and pitched the grenade and released the handle at same time.

I still almost got nailed because the sh*t bird next to me threw his grenade at the same time .........and dropped it at his feet. This being a practice range, we standing in a special fox hole that had a sloping floor and containment hole so that the grenade rolled safely into the secure hole and harmlessly exploded. I wanted to kill the SOB but my ears were ringing too badly.

[rkhanna]

Shadow lines: the drugs and terror track in Punjab

http://www.catchnews.com/india-news/sha ... 97725.html

There is a dark nexus between traffickers, cops and politicians in Punjab
Jagdish Singh Bhola, an ex-cop and drug trader, named Punjab minister BS Majithia as one of the masterminds of the trade
Not much action has been taken on this
Majithia's sister is Union minister Harsimrat Kaur Badal, daughter-in-law of Punjab CM Parkash Singh Badal
Badal said terror is a national problem, not a state one
He blames security forces for the porous border. Border Security Force troopers have indeed been caught dealing in drugs
But the smuggling of Af-Pak heroin is allowed to flourish in his state unchecked
This could well become a shadow route for smuggling in weapons as well

[Karan M]

My point is that slain pigs too should be treated as a bomb. Let the robot disarm the jehadi; why does the HEAD of the bomb-disposal squad, a Lt. Col. no less have to go and disarm a dead jehadi?

We dont know what happened. How do we know what the head did or did not do??

Did someone else make a mistake?
Was there a SOP issue?
Was a grenade kept in such a manner that a robot could not access it?
Was this a calculated risk?

We simply do not know enough to draw conclusions about robots and what not.

[VikramS]

My point is that slain pigs too should be treated as a bomb. Let the robot disarm the jehadi; why does the HEAD of the bomb-disposal squad, a Lt. Col. no less have to go and disarm a dead jehadi?

We dont know what happened. How do we know what the head did or did not do??.

From http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/pat ... tml?src=fb

Defence sources said Niranjan, a resident of Kerala, was killed while trying to retrieve the grenade from the body of a dead terrorist.

Something very easily done by a robot. In fact the robot could easily be programmed to put the pin back also (if that works...)

[nirav]

The 6th harami should be taken alive.
Cretin can give direct Intel ... Encounter him post interrogation ...

How?

Gas him if he's cornered ?

We'll no doubt find out the who when how of the attacks. That process would have been shortened had the pig got captured alive ..

[Karan M]

That's a media report. And quoting "sources". As reliable as the PA talking about its bravery and what not.
Just check news reports of 26/11 and later more reliable accounts. Huge mistakes in media accounts.

Something very easily done by a robot. In fact the robot could easily be programmed to put the pin back also (if that works...)

I'd sure like to see the robot with a gripper sensitive enough to pry a grenade from a hand and whilst keeping the handle depressed put the pin back in. Theres a reason people like this are still around. (http://www.firstdefense.com/html/imagePPU.JPG)

That even accounting for whether the story is true.

[schinnas]

I still almost got nailed because the sh*t bird next to me threw his grenade at the same time .........and dropped it at his feet. This being a practice range, we standing in a special fox hole that had a sloping floor and containment hole so that the grenade rolled safely into the secure hole and harmlessly exploded. I wanted to kill the SOB but my ears were ringing too badly.

Whoa!. Gotta be thankful for such precautions such as the sloping hole and containment hole. Are the grenades used for training low intensity ones by any chance.

[UlanBatori]

I would point out that once the grenade countdown is activated there is no stopping it. replacing the pin or handle will not work.

That's what I thought. As for the fun of training.. Soapy Sunder (R.I.P.) while prone and firing a 0.303 at a target a hundred meters away from an embankment, managed instead to hit the 0.5 inch of exposed cement wall, 1 foot from the end of the rifle barrel. Escaped with just a few cuts under the eye from concrete fragments. This crowned a career of marching with left arm and foot out at the same time, turning left when everyone else turned right, etc. Truly a special soul, a very nice and peaceful and harmless person - but made life interesting for the rest his squad (i.e., us incl. moi). Did wonders for the disposition of the Sergeant... and many hours of laughter after the yelling was suffered and over.

News reports still say that Lt.Col Niranjan Kumar (Malloostani!!) was defusing explosives recovered from the sh1ts.

BTW, they still think 2 sh1ts have escaped to Dilli.

[Karan M]

I still almost got nailed because the sh*t bird next to me threw his grenade at the same time .........and dropped it at his feet. This being a practice range, we standing in a special fox hole that had a sloping floor and containment hole so that the grenade rolled safely into the secure hole and harmlessly exploded. I wanted to kill the SOB but my ears were ringing too badly.

Whoa!. Gotta be thankful for such precautions such as the sloping hole and containment hole. Are the grenades used for training low intensity ones by any chance.

Another design
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12 ... -practice/

[UlanBatori]

Bottom line: Aerial detection of IR/motion saved the Base. And once they were detected, the Base forces reacted very very fast, so that the Pakis were cornered in a building.

Overall, another flunked terrorist attack, like Gurdaspur.

Now for the Befitting Reply (holding breath)

1. A quartet of Brahmos hitting Muzzafarabad?
2. A Prithvi razing J-e-M HQ?
3. A TNW leveling Muridke L-e-T HQ?
4. A strongly-worded demarche handed to the Ambassador-e-terroristan over stronger Assam chai and biscoot?

[TSJones]

I still almost got nailed because the sh*t bird next to me threw his grenade at the same time .........and dropped it at his feet. This being a practice range, we standing in a special fox hole that had a sloping floor and containment hole so that the grenade rolled safely into the secure hole and harmlessly exploded. I wanted to kill the SOB but my ears were ringing too badly.

Whoa!. Gotta be thankful for such precautions such as the sloping hole and containment hole. Are the grenades used for training low intensity ones by any chance.

there are training grenades that merely make a loud pop, but we were using real grenades at the time.

[nits]

Chief Secretary of India doing Press Conference

Hilights

• Air force have lost 6 Personnel and 8 injured including DSC ( 5) and Garuda ( 1)
  NSG lost 1 and 12 injured
  Overall 7 personnel Martyred and 20 injured so far
  No Damage to any Air Force Asset
  Western Air Command Chief supervising whole operation
  They had clear Intel that pathankot IAF Base is target
  4 were neutralized till yesterday evening and operation was slowed down in night
  Combing operation started in morning and then they received fire from remaining two; 2 Terrorist still inside as per him and operation going on. There can be more then 2 as firing is coming from 2 directions

[Karan M]

Meanwhile people have started asking questions which the MSM wont (unless its anti present GOI).

https://twitter.com/sushantsareen

How can a SP afford a XUV500? Is it a govt vehicle or his pvt car? how much does he earn? Does narco eco have a role to play in #pathankot

[Bihanga]

Ironically, just now I have seen on NDTV, NSG Commando's in Black Uniform and Helmet were sitting in Yellow colour School transport bus used for small Kids on their way towards Airbase gate. Additional security forces of some other Units were on their way towards airbase in Private Bus. Seriously we have long way to go in terms of raw security of our soldiers

Anyway, airbase attacks seems to have fast gaining currency post Syrian Conflict.

Most recent Airbase happened in Afganistan just a week back on 23rd Dec 2015 on Bagram Airforce base in which 6 US airman lost their life during Joint Patrolling with Afgan soldiers outside Main security gate when Taliban fidayeen attackers rammed explosive ridden bike. Hence my first paragrapgh is seriously implying that atleast during combing operations we must ferry reinforcement in Armoured Carriers.

Secondly, Pak attackers replicated exact template of Sept-15 Peshawar Airbase attack, whereby 13 attackers splits into two groups and sloughterd 16 PAF Servicemen in adjoining Mosque Prayer room. Even that time also Pak intelligence intercepted Mobile calls signifying the upcoming attack. In total 23 PAF, 4 PA serviceman and 3 civilians lost their life fighting. Even then attackers were cornered into techical area.

[rohitvats]

ALERT: Press conference by Home Secretary and IAF senior personnel.

As per IAF person, the first contact happened when a patrol was investigating a lead basis aerial surveillance. Kind of reconfirms my assessment that first set of casualties happened because some security detail was ambushed. I'm also veering towards the thought this contact OUTSIDE the base as the patrol was out investigating the lead. Awaiting further details.

[nits]

Some more points from conference

NSG only moved in after base was attacked; they were on standby near pathankot
Horrible comment from Chief Sec - when asked s it lapse that despite intel we have casualty - he said kuch to nuksan hamari taraf hoga hi... Shame man

[SriKumar]

Some random notes:

1 The person who's throat was slit is recovering in a hospital. He is Rajesh Verma, a friend of the SP who was hijacked. Hindustan Times interviewed him and it has some interesting details. He talks of 4 people in army uniform, and also that they were aware of the location of a base. 'Dawn' has an article with a lot more details on this interview.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/pat ... G5G3O.html

2 Here is a newspaper article published on the day that the SP kidnapping/driver murder was detected but well before the attack on IAF base had taken place. It talks of a terror alert being issued, but 'situation was being monitored'. The entire tone was one of heightened awareness and alertness rather than alarm bells going off. Probably they were trying to piece together the situation and trying to figure out how serious was this.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... abduction/

[Gyan]

IAS babu err Home Secretary seemed petulant and rude. The babu (not IAF) sitting next to him was not even shaved. I apologize for disturbing their Sunday afternoon. Not even pretense of human concern inspite of 30 casualities on our side, only an air of arrogance.

[shiv]

ALERT: Press conference by Home Secretary and IAF senior personnel.

As per IAF person, the first contact happened when a patrol was investigating a lead basis aerial surveillance. Kind of reconfirms my assessment that first set of casualties happened because some security detail was ambushed. I'm also veering towards the thought this contact OUTSIDE the base as the patrol was out investigating the lead. Awaiting further details.

Looking at Google Earth images of the air base and connecting with TV reports - the base has some real wild country to the south and east, and the total area covered by the base is about 25 square km - 6000 acres (150 golf courses or 90,000 plots of land for Bengaluru government people to sell and make money and buy Mahindra SUVs) . Reports say there is tall elephant grass outside the inner perimeter that makes going tough.

There is a river running on the east and south of the runway and there are probably multiple nullahs

[UlanBatori]

They may have been up for 36 hours straight, Gyanji. The Babu I saw seemed to have difficulty focusing, maybe because he was crying. We don't know the inside details. They sure seemed serious and in shock.
Very different from the sharp but 400% insincere types I've seen delivering polished lies in certain other places...

OTOH, the fellows seemed grossly unfamiliar with the situation and reading from notes that they had not even looked at before. Couldn't figure out the name of the village.. I half expected him to hold up the paper and turn it through 360 deg. But it may have been stress, not callousness.

See Tippu Sultan post .. These Babus are our First Line of Defense. Sleep in peace. They do.

[rohitvats]

Press briefing by Pathankot Station Commander:

- The first contact happened with Garud Commandos. A Garud Commando was martyred and injured during this contact. It was estimated that there were 4 terrorists in this group.

- The terrorists ran from this contact and during this disengagement, they fired randomly inside the buildings in on the way. During this period, they came across cook house of DSC troops with some DSC jawans cooking breakfast. Terrorists fired on this group and this is where most casualties happened.

- One DSC jawan ran after the terrorists, got hold of the last one in the group, snatched his rifle and killed him. He was martyred as others fired back on him.

- All of the terrorists from this group were neutralized as of yesterday night.

- The second group was discovered as combing operations were underway this morning. While the Station Commander did not say this, it is being surmised that there were two groups who attacked. And total number could be seven.

This two groups being used to attack follows the pattern used in Uri attack on bde HQ.

[rohitvats]

<SNIP>There is a river running on the east and south of the runway and there are probably multiple nullahs

The river that you see running to east of the base is Chakki River! And the river inside the base is a canal which branches of from a major canal originating in headwords of Ravi river in Madhopur. The whole area is undulating with thick vegetation. Has both wild growth as well as farms. Interestingly, the canal inside the base meant the movement of terrorists was restricted to one zone.

[Gyan]

Re Rohit, This information- News item sounds logical about unarmed DSC being shot. What was happening from the time/distance of first contact getting fired upon to terrorists entering the mess? No guard outside, nobody pursuing? Breakfast being cooked in unguarded building by DSC rather than DSC doing their primary duty of re-enforcing guards? Knowing Punjab the whole town stops cooking and rushes to incident, place of firing. Breakfast being cooked for brass?

[deejay]

RV, thanks for the brief.

If the DSC cook house kind of place was hit then it was inside the AFB and if it was from south then it was in the Technical area. In a way, while our air assets were exposed but because they are more dispersed, comparatively safer. Hate to think of the case if residential areas had been hit.

Hats off to the DSC guard who ran after the terrorists alone. Gallant to the last drop. I am reminded of Constable Tukaram Omble from Mumbai 2008.

[nirav]

- One DSC jawan ran after the terrorists, got hold of the last one in the group, snatched his rifle and killed him. He was martyred as others fired back on him.

This is incredible. Amazing presence of mind and display of valour.

Salutations to the fine soldier.

[manjgu]

Gyan ji.. duty of DSC cook and staff is is to cook... do u have any sense?

[fanne]

I think Ramana Sir should reissue his statement on not being Monday Quaterback

[Gyan]

Gyan ji.. duty of DSC cook and staff is is to cook... do u have any sense?

Don't pick a sentence out of context. Read the whole post. Are you claiming that they went on cooking while firing was going on outside. You seem to have all the sense in the world it seems. After reading my post in full read the following Deejay post. Put 2 and 2 together.

A possible explanation is that IAF Command not only lost track but were not prepared for second group which seperately infiltrated technical area and attacked unarmed and unaware DSC staff.


While first group of terrorists was separately keeping forces busy in densely forested area of the base.

[Bihanga]

Gyan ji.. duty of DSC cook and staff is is to cook... do u have any sense?

It seems you have certainly lost measure of own sense


If unarmed DSC personel manage to pin fully armed attacker and shown him the sky single handedly, that should be regarded Rambo like.

One thing for sure, People of his native will construct a monument in his rememberance to pay him ultimate Homage, rather then worrying about his duties.

[nirav]

I think Ramana Sir should reissue his statement on not being Monday Quaterback

One gets to see a wholesale demonstration of "freedom of speech" and non sense questions of Rahul babaesque quality.

Ex. why were DSC guys cooking breakfast instead of doing their primary duty of reinforcing guards...

The glee at rushing to point fingers and apportion blame on someone somehow by asking such questions is bewildering..