Pathankot AirForce base under attack

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Murugan » 03 Jan 2016 19:37

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor 3h3 hours ago
One of the DSC jawans at #Pathankot base chased a terrorist, caught and killed him with the terrorist's own weapon, then succumbed to fire.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor 31m31 minutes ago
Hero was Sepoy Jagdish Chand. Wrestled one terrorist at Pathankot, killed him with his own rifle before dying. No real words for such acts.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby fanne » 03 Jan 2016 19:38

Can we please focus this thread to Pathankot....

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Murugan » 03 Jan 2016 19:40

Deleted
Last edited by Murugan on 03 Jan 2016 19:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Avinash R » 03 Jan 2016 19:44

^speak in specifics rather than speaking in anecdotes and pulling up the i-know-someone-important card.

manjgu wrote:the babus are taking this country down alongwith the netas


That is a wild allegation to make without any evidence backing it up.

manjgu wrote:this is not the place to explain all..


This is exactly the place to explain your claim that babus are somehow to be held responsible for the repeated terrorist attacks.

manjgu wrote:all of us know the truth


No we dont, please explain.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Supratik » 03 Jan 2016 19:45

If one of the bodies was booby trapped with IED which led to the death of one NSG personnel where is that.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Avinash R » 03 Jan 2016 19:46

@Murugan the pic is from an old terror attack in J&K from last year

source https://u4uvoice.com/picture-of-a-kille ... -gunfight/
SEPTEMBER 3, 2015

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby A_Gupta » 03 Jan 2016 19:47

deejay wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Is 1:1 casualties in an attack on your base with supposedly no element of surprise a good outcome, militarily speaking?


A Gupta ji, all mil evaluation / benchmarks fail in case of fidayeen / suicide attacks. Generally speaking there is no casualty standard for measurement of success but to gain conventional superiority in conflcit a 3:1 ratio is felt sufficient in terms of troops deployed not in terms of losses. In terms of suicide attacks these calculations do not hold.


Well, then in terms of Pakistani assets and people expended versus Indian losses - objectively speaking, in this one engagement, who has lost more?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby manjgu » 03 Jan 2016 19:49

i gave u an example...talk to me on my email id..and i will tell u the person with pictures. BR is not the place i will disclose name of the officer.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Avinash R » 03 Jan 2016 19:52

^ok i will learn clairvoyance to deduce your email id and then you can show me those *secret* pictures.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Gyan » 03 Jan 2016 19:54

So manjugoo, you are a kid, whose pop had a friend who was an army officer, giving lectures to other arm chair warriors that they know nothing, without knowing their identity using his own waste err Vast experience. While being Ready to send non publically available material on email to unknown person. Did you say you don't talk with yr arse? Thinking with it are you?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Vayutuvan » 03 Jan 2016 19:56

VikramS wrote:
My point is that slain pigs too should be treated as a bomb. Let the robot disarm the jehadi; why does the HEAD of the bomb-disposal squad, a Lt. Col. no less have to go and disarm a dead jehadi?

Possible to use a long pole and move the body somewhat? Or is the objective to keep the body intact so that papers/GPS/phone can be recovered for forensics?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 19:57

A_Gupta wrote:
deejay wrote:
A Gupta ji, all mil evaluation / benchmarks fail in case of fidayeen / suicide attacks. Generally speaking there is no casualty standard for measurement of success but to gain conventional superiority in conflcit a 3:1 ratio is felt sufficient in terms of troops deployed not in terms of losses. In terms of suicide attacks these calculations do not hold.


Well, then in terms of Pakistani assets and people expended versus Indian losses - objectively speaking, in this one engagement, who has lost more?

Let me butt in

There is an element of psychology here. It will be promoted as a victory by the Pakis because the ratio of deaths is "unfavourable"

However what must be done is to use the yardstick of what was sought to be achieved. 7 men were sent equipped to destroy an airbase or at least take out some aircraft. They got nowhere near.

It is anyone's choice to take either view, I think making the right choice for oneself is necessary.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 19:59

Was this posted?
Exclusive: Pathankot terror witness' leads ignored, tortured instead
It was nearly midnight and they were on a isolated stretch when the uniformed men stopped them.

"Mr. Verma was driving the SUV with Mr. Singh sitting next to him while I was in the middle passenger seat. In a flash, we were overpowered with Mr. Verma being the first one to be forcefully evicted and stuffed inside the boot," said Mr. Gopal.

"They dragged Mr. Singh out of the car and sandwiched him between the front and middle seats, something they did to me as well. Two of them sat on us after tying up our limbs, taping our eyes and gagging our mouths," he added.

Two of the attackers then sat over the duo. Mr. Gopal recalled the attackers talking to each other but is fairly certain that the language used by most of them "wasn't Punjabi".

"Only one of them uttered few words in broken Punjabi, which is why I could not comprehend much. The other familiar words I heard were Asalam Alaikum. From the voices, I could sense they were young men," said Mr. Gopal.

Neither Mr. Gopal nor Mr. Singh (in his purported disclosure to the police) could remember the routes they were driven on in the hijacked car but it was a dense forest close to the base where they were eventually dumped. The assailants drove away with Mr. Verma still inside the boot.

Mr. Gopal then heard his senior's voice: "Madan let's try and get out of this forest." It was Mr. Singh who managed to free himself first and he freed Mr. Gopal.

"The darkness, dense bushes and tall grasses made it extremely difficult for us to navigate out of the forest. When we eventually did, after walking for two hours and even encountering a canal, we were in a village," said Mr. Gopal.

Villagers helped Mr. Singh to contact his seniors. "He called up Gurdaspur SSP Gurpreet Singh and told him that those who had kidnapped us could be militants," recounted Mr. Gopal.

He added that his hope of police rushing him to safety was immediately dashed when they were taken to the Sadar police station in Pathankot.

"I was repeatedly assaulted even as I kept insisting that whatever I had told them was true. My fears were proved right when the base was attacked but the local police as well as some intelligence officers kept torturing me even after the gun battle started. This is all I get after serving this force for 40 years," said Mr. Gopal, a Class IV staff of Punjab Police, who got an extension after retiring last year.

Punjab DGP and SSP Pathankot were unavailable for comment, despite repeated attempts by The Hindu.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby neeraj » 03 Jan 2016 20:00

Hopefully the NDA govt will not be as impotent as UPA. There needs to be a response.
Not all responses need to be military. Start with getting out of TPI gas pipeline and unilaterally abrogating the Indus Water Treaty.

Make textiles 0 tax - hit them where it hurts.

Old article but still relevant
India can hurt paki economy
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SwamyG » 03 Jan 2016 20:01

Again I ask how were they able to ingress? Why isn't the outer perimeter not able to push back 7 or 8 terrorists?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ShauryaT » 03 Jan 2016 20:02

shiv wrote:
There is an element of psychology here. It will be promoted as a victory by the Pakis because the ratio of deaths is "unfavourable"

However what must be done is to use the yardstick of what was sought to be achieved. 7 men were sent equipped to destroy an airbase or at least take out some aircraft. They got nowhere near.

It is anyone's choice to take either view, I think making the right choice for oneself is necessary.
For psychological purposes only. We did better than the attacks made on PAF based, where they lost Orions or better than the Americans, where they lost Harriers in Afghanistan in an attack on Camp Bastion.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 03 Jan 2016 20:03

^^^It seems the Punjab Police tried best to suppress the evidence of their involvement. The moment they picked up those terrorists, they knew their game was up. And concocted the story. And then local police tried best to suppress the story. They did not want it to come out.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby chetak » 03 Jan 2016 20:03

vayu tuvan wrote:
VikramS wrote:
My point is that slain pigs too should be treated as a bomb. Let the robot disarm the jehadi; why does the HEAD of the bomb-disposal squad, a Lt. Col. no less have to go and disarm a dead jehadi?

Possible to use a long pole and move the body somewhat? Or is the objective to keep the body intact so that papers/GPS/phone can be recovered for forensics?


don't they wear a bomb suit for this kind of jobs or was it an unexpectedly(??) booby trapped body that caught them by surprise??

surely, there are SOP's for this kind of a thing.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 20:07

SwamyG wrote:Again I ask how were they able to ingress? Why isn't the outer perimeter not able to push back 7 or 8 terrorists?

Please take a look at the terrain around the airbase on Google earth and you get an idea of its overall defensibility. The base occupies 25 square km and has rivers and nullahs across the outer perimeter. I repeat - imagine yourself playing hide and seek in that terrain at night.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby manjgu » 03 Jan 2016 20:10

gyan bhai..dont lose ur shirt so fast !! enuf said.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Y. Kanan » 03 Jan 2016 20:16

ShauryaT wrote:
shiv wrote:
There is an element of psychology here. It will be promoted as a victory by the Pakis because the ratio of deaths is "unfavourable"

However what must be done is to use the yardstick of what was sought to be achieved. 7 men were sent equipped to destroy an airbase or at least take out some aircraft. They got nowhere near.

It is anyone's choice to take either view, I think making the right choice for oneself is necessary.
For psychological purposes only. We did better than the attacks made on PAF based, where they lost Orions or better than the Americans, where they lost Harriers in Afghanistan in an attack on Camp Bastion.


Agreed; it's something of a minor miracle and credit to our forces that we've never had a successful jihadi raid on our air assets.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby d_berwal » 03 Jan 2016 20:19

shiv wrote:Was this posted?
Exclusive: Pathankot terror witness' leads ignored, tortured instead

Punjab DGP and SSP Pathankot were unavailable for comment, despite repeated attempts by The Hindu.[/size][/color][/b]


the game has already started... !!! and mark my words India MEDIA is with THEM!!!

I fail to understand how can a bunch of terrorist tie 2 MEN to GET free in less than an Hour or so?

And the same bunch can withhold NSG for 36+ hrs?

Plus we have media reports supporting the SP whose conduct is the most suspicious!!!

Our Media (news )is our biggest enemy.

RIP brothers for saving the country where you were betrayed by your own Media (NEWS).....

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SRoy » 03 Jan 2016 20:20

Gyan wrote:Manjgu is arguing that DSC has cook division which only cooks even as fighting goes on right in front of them. I wonder if the rest of DSC also has squads who only sleeps, rests, plays chess and will only fight if required in their assigned shift under proper service conditions. He his unable to accept the concept of All Hands on the Deck.


Bhai, have ever been to any Air Force Station? Do you know who constitute the DSC ranks?

Your post is quite condescending.

FYI, the DSC ranks are filled from ex-Army soldiers. Quite possibly (if you are young) they might be of your father's age and despite being fit they are physically no match for a well trained 20 something. Sentry duties and patrolling is okay (that too something they do in tandem with the Air Force Police), don't expect more.

Off duty guards don't carry weapons.

What the DSC guard did was beyond his call of duty.

Of BTW, if antecedents are important for you, I have spent better part of my life up in Air Force Stations.
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby jagga » 03 Jan 2016 20:20

Martyred Garud Commando Gursevak Singh

Image

Martyred Lieutenant Colonel NSG, Niranjan Kumar,

Image

Martyred Subedar Fateh Singh

Image
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Singha » 03 Jan 2016 20:21

data point.

ltte once entered Colombo airport apron through a unguarded drain and blew up some six air Lanka planes.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby A_Gupta » 03 Jan 2016 20:22

http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/exc ... 061330.ece
I was repeatedly assaulted even as I kept insisting that whatever I had told them was true," said Madan Gopal (inset), one of the three abducted by terrorists.

The uneventful drive back from a religious shrine on Friday evening didn’t take much time to turn into a nightmare for Madan Gopal, one of the three abducted by the terrorists who stormed the Pathankot air base on Saturday morning.

Mr. Gopal, the cook of former Gurdaspur Superintendent of Police Salvinder Singh, spoke to The Hindu at his residence on Sunday morning as fighting continued a few kilometres away between the security forces and terrorists, almost 35 hours after the terrorists stormed the forward base of the Indian Air Force.

Mr. Gopal, Mr. Singh and the latter's jeweller friend, Rajesh Verma, were abducted on Thursday late night. And on Friday early morning, at around 2 a.m., Mr. Gopal and Mr. Singh were freed.

Mr. Gopal alleged that not only was the vital information he shared with the police immediately after he was freed ignored but also he was brutally tortured by the Punjab Police.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby krisna » 03 Jan 2016 20:22

posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=1958927

viewtopic.php?p=1959082#p1959082

seeing the 2 posts, one striking thing I see is

from Aditya post
List of attacks on IAF Airbases or civvie airports in India:

1. 1994 Jan: HM kills 9 IAF personnel on an attack on radar installation in Zadoora, near Srinagar.

2. 2001 Jan: Six fidayeen attack Srinagar airport. 11 dead.

3. 2001 Oct: Four fidayeen attack Awantipora airbase. 6 dead.

4. 2004 Nov: Ulfa militants exploded an IED near an IAF base in Jorhat district damaging an ubused signal tower.

5. 2016 Jan: Pathankot


from Amber G post
1 March 1, 2001: A 135—yard underground tunnel detected across India—Pakistan border in Punjab’s Gurdaspur district.
2 Jan 1, 2002: Three Army personnel killed and five others injured when a group of unidentified terrorists attacks them at a firing range in Damtal, close to Punjab’s border with Himachal Pradesh.
3 Jan 31, 2002: Two persons killed and 12 others injured in explosion in a Punjab Roadways bus at Patrana in Hoshiarpur district.
4 March 31, 2002: Two people are killed and 28 others injured in a bomb blast on Ferozepur—Dhanbad express train at Daroha, about 20km from Ludhiana.
5 Apr 28, 2006: At least eight persons are wounded in a bomb blast on a bus carrying 45 passengers at Jalandhar bus terminus.
6 Oct 14, 2007: Seven persons, including a 10—year old child, are killed and 40 others injured in a bomb blast in a cinema hall in Ludhiana.

7 July 27, 2015: Seven people, including a Punjab Police Superintendent, killed when three terrorists carry out a strike on a police station in Gurdaspur district. All three militants also killed.
8 Jan 2, 2016: Four terrorists and three security personnel killed when militants storm IAF base in Pathankot.


bolded ones during MMS regime. rest with NDA ones.

why so much less attacks compared to NDA. any relation or it is something else.


more aman ki tamasha less terrorists attacks.
More corruption less attacks.
less development less terorrists atacks
less defence preparations less attacks.

May be I am not getting the right answers.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 20:23

chetak wrote:CNN IBN is repeatedly broadcasting that the pigs were INSIDE the airbase for 12 hours before the first contact took place and the security forces were unaware of this fact.

er what were they doing for 12 hours? I mean I know they were phoning their mummies an all, but how come not a single aircraft or radar touched by so much as a fart?

I suspect that CNN IBN is doing what media do - getting eyeballs without knowing or showing that there is an inner perimeter which is securely guarded and an outer zone that is a buffer. These men were in that buffer zone . If they were inside the inner perimeter they would have had no trouble creating mayhem because they would then be in the base proper. That inner perimeter is clearly seen on Google earth.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Singha » 03 Jan 2016 20:25

Singha wrote:data point.

ltte once entered Colombo airport apron through a unguarded drain and blew up some six air Lanka planes.


wiki
Around 3:30 am on July 24, 14 members of the LTTE Black Tiger suicide squad infiltrated Katunayake air base, located about 35 km (22 mi) north of Colombo. After destroying electricity transformers to plunge the base in darkness, they cut through the barbed wire surrounding the base to begin their assault. Using rocket-propelled grenades, anti-tank weapons, and assault rifles, the militants attacked air force planes. They were not able to attack the aircraft parked in hangars but did destroy eight military aircraft on the tarmac: three K-8 Karakorum trainer aircraft, one Mil Mi-17 helicopter, one Mil Mi-24 helicopter, two IAI Kfir fighter jets, and a MiG-27. Five K-8s and one MiG-27 were also damaged. A total of 26 aircraft were either damaged or destroyed in the attack.[1] Some of the LTTE members climbed to the top of the air base's control tower, which they used as a vantage point.[1]

Eight Tigers and three air force officers died in the battle at the air base. The six remaining LTTE members then crossed the runway to nearby Bandaranaike Airport. Using their weapons, they began blowing up civilian aircraft, which were all empty. One Airbus A330 was destroyed by an explosive charge, another A330 by the explosion of an oil tank; an A340 was destroyed by a rocket fired from the terminal building. In addition, an A320-200 and an A340-300 were damaged in the assa

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Singha » 03 Jan 2016 20:27

lot of our bases are shared with civilian ops, lot more people, less security at entry points, easy run across the runway to mil aprons....

iaf bases are relatively soft high value asset targets compared to army camps

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby d_berwal » 03 Jan 2016 20:28

A_Gupta wrote:http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/exclusive-police-tortured-key-pathankot-terror-witness/article8061330.ece


tell me what shrine did this person visit? please all of you people let me know what PUNJABI/ SHIK shrine is in that area that is being talked about?

see now how fast the media is saving their masters ASSETS !!!

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_23370 » 03 Jan 2016 20:28

Why are we comparing past attacks in pakistan or sri lanka with this one? What we need is a new one in pakistan. Hopefully right before the talks.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SRoy » 03 Jan 2016 20:31

d_berwal wrote:Plus we have media reports supporting the SP whose conduct is the most suspicious!!!


SP of a border state that cannot identify a genuine Armyman, and despite being a native of the state cannot detect dialect differences.
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby deejay » 03 Jan 2016 20:32

A_Gupta wrote:
deejay wrote:...
A Gupta ji, all mil evaluation / benchmarks fail in case of fidayeen / suicide attacks. Generally speaking there is no casualty standard for measurement of success but to gain conventional superiority in conflcit a 3:1 ratio is felt sufficient in terms of troops deployed not in terms of losses. In terms of suicide attacks these calculations do not hold.


Well, then in terms of Pakistani assets and people expended versus Indian losses - objectively speaking, in this one engagement, who has lost more?


As a guess, the Pakis must have had two (maybe three) objectives with this attack:

a) Get media attention - Successful
b) Destroy air assets - Failed
maybe
c) Vitiate atmosphere / take initiative back from our PM and theirs - Not sure how this will evolve.

I am sure they did not have kill count targets or the attack would have been in working hours at more populated areas. Dead combatants if high on the Indian side speaks of the level of training of the terrorists plus it an indication of tactics used which were good enough to have ambushed people in an alerted base.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby A_Gupta » 03 Jan 2016 20:34

shiv wrote:There is an element of psychology here. It will be promoted as a victory by the Pakis because the ratio of deaths is "unfavourable"

However what must be done is to use the yardstick of what was sought to be achieved. 7 men were sent equipped to destroy an airbase or at least take out some aircraft. They got nowhere near.

It is anyone's choice to take either view, I think making the right choice for oneself is necessary.


Thanks, docji, I don't mean to be sarcastic, but since no terrorist attack has or will achieve Ghazwa-e-Hind, we can all rest easy; isn't that the right choice of view to take?

That is why I didn't phrase the question in terms of objectives. Pakistani objective take out some aircraft; Indian objective to kill or capture all the terrorists, yay, Pakistan did not achieve its objectives; India did better. Clearly that is a meaningless exercise.

The costs on either side are a part of objective reality (no pun intended), unlike the objectives. One could also argue quite convincingly I think, that the Pakistan objective is to simply disrupt the peace, and to impose more costs on India in process than are levied on Pakistan. So that is the question - in the Pathankot terrorist incident, without considering possible future actions, who so far has paid the higher cost?

Also to note: ending terrorism is not a matter of thwarting the terrorists' objectives. Ending terrorism requires imposing more costs on the terrorists' side than they can sustain.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SRoy » 03 Jan 2016 20:35

Singha wrote:lot of our bases are shared with civilian ops, lot more people, less security at entry points, easy run across the runway to mil aprons....

iaf bases are relatively soft high value asset targets compared to army camps


Nah ... cantonments aren't too air tight either.

But AF bases are real problem. Imagine an oil droplet right inside a AFS, that cannot be shifted out due to vote bank politics.
Yeah we have that too. Bloody nest of spies and saboteurs.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby d_berwal » 03 Jan 2016 20:36

so our beloved anti-India-national media was kept out of loop of Modi visit to pak.... PLUS all the others actors were also kept out of loop... some PEOPLE got really pissed and we see the result in Pathankot.

I Just hope DOVEL anticipate this and this was deliberate to flush out the supporters!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby chetak » 03 Jan 2016 20:37

shiv wrote:
chetak wrote:CNN IBN is repeatedly broadcasting that the pigs were INSIDE the airbase for 12 hours before the first contact took place and the security forces were unaware of this fact.

er what were they doing for 12 hours? I mean I know they were phoning their mummies an all, but how come not a single aircraft or radar touched by so much as a fart?

I suspect that CNN IBN is doing what media do - getting eyeballs without knowing or showing that there is an inner perimeter which is securely guarded and an outer zone that is a buffer. These men were in that buffer zone . If they were inside the inner perimeter they would have had no trouble creating mayhem because they would then be in the base proper. That inner perimeter is clearly seen on Google earth.


not a good thing to have these guys chilling on the front porch while the house owner had no clue that they were there.

they may have been waiting for any number of reasons but basically difficult to accept that, inner/ outer perimeter not withstanding, these guys were inside the base, in a place that they had no business being.

family + staff accommodations are outside the inner perimeter and a peshawar school type massacre involving the families would not have been a pretty picture.

if you have a buffer, it is best to know that the buffer has been penetrated as quickly as possible and certainly not after a gap of 12 hours.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 20:39

Bheeshma wrote:Why are we comparing past attacks in pakistan or sri lanka with this one? What we need is a new one in pakistan. Hopefully right before the talks.

I suspect that Pakistani defences are being watched carefully by intel. If they are being beefed up it means they are expecting Indian retaliation. It also means that they expect to be blamed. If they are beefed up then retaliation will not come soon but we will have lost the initiative.

But Modi may play a different game. Let's see.

KLNMurthy
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby KLNMurthy » 03 Jan 2016 20:39

shiv wrote:https://twitter.com/IndianExpress/status/683457767772938240
Pathankot attack: Blue beacon atop SP’s hijacked SUV let terrorists speed past checkposts


The blue beacon atop the Mahindra XUV of Superintendent of Police Salwinder Singh helped the terrorists, who hijacked the vehicle, get past several police checkposts on Friday. It is suspected that the same lot of terrorists entered the Pathankot airbase because the SUV was found abandoned a little over 500 metres away. - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... C8WGa.dpuf


Kejriwal was correct about VIP cars with beacons

In this case isn't the beacon there because it was a police vehicle and not a VIP vehicle? Is a SP a VIP?

They probably needed better inter-departmental communication (between police and base security) about stolen police vehicle.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 03 Jan 2016 20:41, edited 1 time in total.


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