Pathankot AirForce base under attack

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby sum » 05 Jan 2016 12:02

^^ Sir, any reason why any other countries people should care for our lives and why should we even expect it? If we were actually thinking that, we deserve to be whacked a 1000 times more! :(

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shaun » 05 Jan 2016 12:06

so more details coming out .......i will stick to the technical aspect

"Imaging equipment on an IAF reconnaissance helicopter, a source familiar with the operation said, first detected possible terrorist movement at around 4 am on Saturday to the north-west of the runway."

“In many other countries,” an NSG officer said, “this is a task that would be done by robots, or personnel using highly specialised bomb-disposal equipment. That kind of equipment was not available with us.”

"Even though terrorists have successfully attacked several Pakistan Air Force bases in recent years, taking advantage of poor perimeter security, Pathankot had not installed electronic perimeter surveillance systems, further complicating the task of watching out for an intrusion."

DDM but he is not that thorough with technicalities http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pathankot-attack-govt-orders-probe-as-questions-surface/#sthash.qG7jTGvN.dpuf
Last edited by shaun on 05 Jan 2016 12:16, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby kenop » 05 Jan 2016 12:07

^^ link ?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 05 Jan 2016 12:09

rkhanna wrote:Irrespective of what you think of the Man, he makes Valid Points.


The points made by him are more to pin blame on NSA/BJP/NM that genuine analysis.

Yet, it was a close run thing. Had the terrorists inflicted mass casualties in the family lines, or entered the technical area and blown up some fighter aircraft, India’s forbearance would have been seriously strained.


This is like 'if my aunt had a dick....' argument. The fact of the matter is that they could not manage all this is because someone thought about being proactive and not wait for piglets to hit first and then react.


By good luck India’s intelligence agencies were forewarned on Friday, the day before the attack, by telephone calls the terrorists foolishly made to Pakistan. This intelligence, which went straight up to the NSA, provided precious hours to beef up security at potential terrorist targets — a list headed by the Pathankot Air Base.


Where is the good luck part of it? The alert about militants being loose went out in the evening of 2nd January by 3:00 -4:00 pm. And all the installations in the area, which is home to a very large concentration of troops and has defense installations scattered all along, were put on heightened alert.

The means for this were readily available from the nearby Pathankot cantonment, India’s biggest, which houses two infantry divisions and two armoured brigades (over 50,000 troops). Yet, when the NSA met the army chief on Friday, he asked for only two columns of soldiers (some 50 troops). Intent on directly controlling what he anticipated would be a walk in the park, and without anticipating that there might be more than one group of terrorists, Mr Doval led with his trump card — he ordered 150-160 National Security Guard (NSG) troopers to be flown down immediately from New Delhi. The army was placed on the side-lines.


Either he does not know the chain of events or is deliberately obfuscating the facts.

Red this article: http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/intel-igent-call-nsg-commandos-were-rushed-to-pathankot-before-attack/story-FQ8mvoEyxeBIRGEUE6NrxI.html

The NSG was rushed to Pathankot AS A PREVENTIVE measure when security agencies realized that 5-6 terrorists were on the loose in the area. Think of it as this way: a crack HR Team was placed in advance in the area to tackle ANY situation which might arise; the terrorists could've hit army installations or some government or civilian target. The NSG was put in place to tackle any of these possible scenarios. A Gurdaspur like situation would not have been allowed to develop.

A case can be made as to why Army SF (located in Udhampur and Nahan) were not summoned. Well, when you've a crack force created specifically to handle such scenarios in place, why would you need to pull in Army SF?

And it seems NSG was pre-positioned at both the AFS and Army cantonment which is a few kilometers away.

The two column of the army were asked for protection of technical area of the base - Now, there is a question that I also have: Why did NSA or powers-that-be ask for an infantry battalion to guard the whole base till the militants were nabbed/killed? This is a question which no one has asked or answered.

In effect, knowing that armed terrorists were prowling the vicinity, the NSA left the Pathankot Air Base in the hands of Defence Security Corps (DSC) jawans; a handful of air force Garud commandos; and the NSG contingent. The DSC, composed of retired military veterans well past their prime, can hardly repulse a well-equipped and motivated terrorist suicide squad. The NSG is not a first responder, and is neither trained nor equipped to protect sprawling air bases; it is meant for pinpoint operations like hostage rescue or flushing out terrorists holed up in a house. As for the Garuds, even the air force has not been able to adequately clarify what they are meant for.


Again, all the accounts tell of DSC casualties happened not because they were the first line of defense but because of sheer bad-luck. By all accounts, the first contact happened with Garud Commandos and subsequent firefight had NSG in lead. All those other remarks about NSG are flippant at best, and sheer lack of knowledge at worst! What does he, or other such experts, feel the NSG is?

The army, which flushes militants out of large forests every day in Jammu & Kashmir, was given a peripheral role. Only when things started going wrong was the army asked for more troops. Although six army columns (150 soldiers) were eventually deployed, it was never in command of the operations.


This is the crucial part - why was more IA not deployed from word go. But for the 'army does flushing out regularly' - hello, where are those NSG commandos from? The same army! And most, if not all, would've already served in CI Ops across the country.

It is revealing that not a single Pathankot casualty is from the army. The hapless DSC jawans took most of the casualties. The NSG took unacceptable losses, including an officer killed from a booby-trapped terrorist body. The army knows this ploy well and approaches terrorist bodies in J&K with caution, knowing the jihadi’s dying act could have been to activate a grenade and lie on it.


Someone needs to ask him what he means by 'no army casualty' - two men injured in the operation are from JAK Rif which was deployed for securing the technical area. That aside, whether IA suffers casualty or not depends on whether they're leading the ops, no?

As for the booby-trap and 'IA knows this and that' - the deceased officers was from Corps of Engineers, for god's sake! And heading the bomb-disposal team of NSG. If this team does not know about booby-traps or un-exploded ammunition, no one does. He's casting aspersion on professional competence of NSG to simply put the NSA in bad light.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby habal » 05 Jan 2016 12:10

So I am learning from a pakistan news channel that Salwinder Singh was transferred because of his involvement in a sexual harassment case involving lady officer.
Around 29:00 mins

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby KLNMurthy » 05 Jan 2016 12:15

shiv wrote:...
Austin this attack received more publicity than others, but army camps and BSF/security forces buses have been attacked on a regular basis. We have had no public response to any of those. Also there are constant reports of infiltration and dozens of Pakis killed at the LoC. Each and every one of these incidents is a more serious attack that has been prevented at the border. This attack was not stopped at the border, that's all.

Either we have no way of responding
or
There are responses that we do not know about
or
There is a deliberate policy not to respond

I heave reason to believe that all three are true to some extent, although I would prefer a fourth option "Visible vicious retribution"


I can only hope that the paki whining about India-supported terrorist activities in their country are not total BS and has some basis in fact.

I still think the pathankot attack is a knee-jerk action by pakis who interpreted the GOI moves for talks as weakness and surrender, requiring an attack to confirm.

The reason I think this is that just holding pakis to agreed modality and agenda of interaction was seen as belligerence and sulking, both by the pakis (who can't get beyond projection) and their Indian chelas, as well as by jingo-types who were craving belligerence. Its obverse, the move to hold talks, again following previously-declared modalities, has been perforce viewed as a surrender or reversal because, it is said, the presumed policy of belligerence and sulking was "a failure."

So, pakis are vicious bullies, while our own DIE-led public tends to be intellectually soft-headed, with a vastly diminished capacity to glean facts and work with them. Thus we end up with a fake story about a dynamic of futile aggression alternating with surrender. Even BRF has not been immune to this fake narrative.

This fake story is an ideal stimulus for the vicious bully that is pakistan.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SidSom » 05 Jan 2016 12:21

It would have been a wonderful sight to see a full battalion of Infantry being called in full gear for combing, MPV and APC and what not. The pigs would have just given up......mentally at least. Sigh, I guess prudence is better than theatrics...

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby KLNMurthy » 05 Jan 2016 12:24

shiv wrote:
Shaun wrote:with due respect sir , what have hiking and mountaineering have do with an operational air base !!!

That question is exactly what I mean. If you knew you would not ask. If you ask you do not know.

If you are a techie, you should know why BSF security cameras stop working. They should work like my laptop no. No failures

In any case, we have only ToiLet's word that the camera was not working.

Now, which is more likely? (A) ToiLet reporter meticulously verified /confirmed / fact-checked that the device was not working, that too in the middle of an ongoing operation or (B) ToiLet reporter and his editor just casually printed as bland fact (not as "it is said...") something that someone said sometime to someone else about the device not working.

We on BRF should know better than to jump up and down at media reports by crews whose quality of work would embarrass a pack of unruly monkeys.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SidSom » 05 Jan 2016 12:26

Shaun wrote:so more details coming out .......i will stick to the technical aspect
“In many other countries,” an NSG officer said, “this is a task that would be done by robots, or personnel using highly specialised bomb-disposal equipment. That kind of equipment was not available with us.”

DDM but he is not that thorough with technicalities http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pathankot-attack-govt-orders-probe-as-questions-surface/#sthash.qG7jTGvN.dpuf


This is not expected from NSG.... Not available .... why. Seriously this seems basic. Does this mean

1. NSG does not have these in its inventory... Deemed not required.
2. We have ordered but not got
3. Did not bring it along due to baggage constraints...

Either way. Not acceptable
Last edited by SidSom on 05 Jan 2016 12:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby prahaar » 05 Jan 2016 12:27

KLNMurthyji, can you please elaborate the following:

I still think the pathankot attack is a knee-jerk action by pakis who interpreted the GOI moves for talks as weakness and surrender, requiring an attack to confirm.


Is this assertion based on how PA theology works or some specific action by GOI which suggests this?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shaun » 05 Jan 2016 12:33

SidSom wrote:
Shaun wrote:so more details coming out .......i will stick to the technical aspect
“In many other countries,” an NSG officer said, “this is a task that would be done by robots, or personnel using highly specialised bomb-disposal equipment. That kind of equipment was not available with us.”

DDM but he is not that thorough with technicalities http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/pathankot-attack-govt-orders-probe-as-questions-surface/#sthash.qG7jTGvN.dpuf


This is not expected from NSG.... Not available .... why. Seriously this seems basic. Does this mean

1. NSG does not have these in its inventory... Deemed not required.
2. We have ordered but not got
3. Did not bring it along due to baggage constraints...

Either way. Not acceptable


yeah , BPJ , Helmets , NVGs , assault rifles, hand held imagers all are basics.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby VikramS » 05 Jan 2016 12:37

anjan wrote:
This advocacy for some super duper perimeter security everywhere is just flat out stupid from any perspective: manpower or financial. You can stop the casual low cost attacks. Pakistan throws proper well trained soldiers at us.


What exactly is your definition of super-duper?

A $5K robot which can be used to :
  • break doors (explosive or mechanic means)?
  • dispense stun grenades or chilli bombs to smoke out jehadis without putting men in harm?
  • provide visuals/IR images to the good guys?
  • poke a dead jehadi and turn him over a few times and drag him away?

For less than $100 I can jerry-rig an Rasberry-PI-2, a NoIR camera, and a wide angle IR floodlight and run image processing software to detect motion and raise an alarm.

Part List:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T2U ... bw_g147_i1 $38 Quad Core A7 Raspberry Pi-2
http://www.amazon.com/Raspberry-Pi-Came ... B00G76YEU8 $26 1080p capable IR camera
http://www.amazon.com/CMVision-IR30-Wid ... B001P2E4U4 $12 IR floodlight with 50 ft range.


Here is an example of someone detecting coyotes (how appropriate) with the older version; this 2 version has 6x the compute power..

Yes I do understand this is not military grade hardware; the point is you can spend a few million and get a lot of bang for the buck when it comes to increasing your capability to detect & protect.

There is absolutely nothing super-duper about it; even hobbyists are doing the basic versions.


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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby KLNMurthy » 05 Jan 2016 12:40

SidSom wrote:It would have been a wonderful sight to see a full battalion of Infantry being called in full gear for combing, MPV and APC and what not. The pigs would have just given up......mentally at least. Sigh, I guess prudence is better than theatrics...

If the attackers are highly-trained, motivated and prepared to die, why would they just give up, upon seeing troops and equipment?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby KLNMurthy » 05 Jan 2016 12:42

prahaar wrote:KLNMurthyji, can you please elaborate the following:

I still think the pathankot attack is a knee-jerk action by pakis who interpreted the GOI moves for talks as weakness and surrender, requiring an attack to confirm.


Is this assertion based on how PA theology works or some specific action by GOI which suggests this?

It is my conjecture based on years of reading articles by paki military types and by DDM/DIS.

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough: I don't think the GOI did or omitted to do something that gave reasonable cause for the pakis to legitimately believe that GOI has "surrendered ". My point is that there is something screwy about the minds of the pakis (and their Indian chelas) that makes them interpret more or less exact adherence to stated policy by GOI as either belligerence or surrender.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 05 Jan 2016 12:46, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby VikramS » 05 Jan 2016 12:42

The forces had to use FLIR equipment on attack choppers to detect the jehadis; enough said.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Singha » 05 Jan 2016 12:47

using them is a hobby in the backyard is a bit different from field use - working conditions are tougher, rain, dust , snow..tolerance for failure is less...the hobbyist does not care for 99% uptime and will just throw it away and get a new one when he needs to - for a institutional purchase of great size apart from far higher toughness and specs, the OEM will need to be around or appoint service centers to keep all this kit operational year after year. procedures will be slower than whipping out a credit card and one click ordering. functions have to be tested and justified.

that is why even the US armed forces with all such convenient hobby kits at its disposal pays a lot more to the likes of textron or lockheed or whoever for solid high grade kit. the only hobby kit US soldiers use is stuff like hydration bags, knee guards and so on...not their optics and mission eqpt. Hajji armour for hummers was another emergency field innovation not involving electronics.

one can only defend ones house from bears and thieves with such kits cobbled together and totally self-supported from 3 different OEMs all based in china probably.

costs would be 10-100x for a military grade contract with AMC and on-call support.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shaun » 05 Jan 2016 12:57

Singha saab that hobby quote was used just to show the effectiveness of such equipments ,certainly a Mil grade stuff is the requirement. Balloons with integrated IO and FLIR pod can too be used for perimeter watch for such a sprawling campus. See there are different technologies for different terrain and purposes . Our premier bases seems to have none. Saying so , such equipments are available but not at unit level and when the need arises , its difficult to source one . why is such robots like DAKSH are being made for if they don't see operational use ( at least in this one )

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby VikramS » 05 Jan 2016 13:03

Singha:

The point was that you can use standard off the shelf components to create effective systems without being "super-duper", "star wars" ityadi. Nor do you need a lot of man-power.

DRDO/BEL et al have enough experience ruggedizing equipment. Quite frankly, its not that hard.

Further we are not talking Siachin here; most of the high value bases of the armed forces are not in an area which takes in snow. Not every piece of equipment in India needs to operate between -50 to 75. In most of the country 0 to 60 should be good enough.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_22539 » 05 Jan 2016 13:14

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 4m4 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
I once tweeted a video from joint exercises with the US, where it was revealed that Indian soldiers liked US gun optics but not body kit.
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Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 8m8 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
Which is why DRDO has been desperately trying to develop new lightweight body armour. Lighter than what is internationally available.
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Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 8m8 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
Indian soldiers themselves don't want to wear heavy body armour in situations that'll impair mobility.
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Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 9m9 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
Ghatak units in the valley got British ceramic plates imported for themselves. Heavy BPJs are available in the Army.
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Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 11m11 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
Mini Remotely operated vehicles were bought for the NSG right after 2008. What stopped them from getting some bigger bomb disposal robots?
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Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 13m13 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
In fact NSG closely tracks IED and bomb trends. Moreover bomb disposal robots are available with the Indian Army.
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Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 14m14 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
NSG also maintains a bomb museum/laboratory in Manesar. There is no way they wouldn't know about dead bodies being booby trapped etc.
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Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 15m15 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
And if anybody has been following NSG mock drills, you'll see that their general kit is much more enhanced from what it was in 2008.
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Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 16m16 minutes ago New Delhi, Delhi
Handheld thermal imagers and NVGs are available to many units on the LoC. NSG definitely has those.
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 05 Jan 2016 13:18

Shaun wrote:there can be N number of reasons for a camera going kaput but two simultaneously that too in a " peaceful " border talks volume of the lethargy that goes in up keeping them.

Some pigs intruded into the base , only time will tell how such intrusion could have been avoided if we had better surveillance equipment and sensors . We now know how good those sensors in remote hilly snow clad terrain of LOC have helped local commanders to detect intrusions . A sprawling and strategic AFB should have multiple layer of such surveillance equipment to detect intrusion.

and to nay Sayers , first let this gadgets get installed than speak about their deficiencies


Let me make the connection between hostile terrain and failed cameras or surveillance equipment. That equipment is supposed to maintain vigil in areas that humans find it difficult to reach through hostile weather 24x7, unattended. In other words that equipment is supposed to keep working where humans will fail.

Now I see your list of reasons why the equipment fails. And guess how the equipment has to be installed or kept in working order? By humans of course, in terrain that is difficult to reach where equipment also is difficult to reach and maintain. And you are saying that the equipment is allowed to fail due to "N number of reasons " but humans are lazy? Why does this sound contrived and unconvincing to me? You have simply taken a roundabout route to try and justify an unfair accusation that you made in the first place and are not graceful enough to withdraw.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 05 Jan 2016 13:31

A_Gupta wrote:How much water do these terrorists carry on them? I assume that unless there are ponds and streams in the area, that is what limits how long they can hide.

Arun a well trained special ops soldier could survive in a jungle for many days simply using available resources - even dew for water.

I think one thing that is under-appreciated is that the Pakis are now sending in terrorists trained to the level of their special forces - the SSG - and the SSG are the Pakistani equivalent of the US Marines (of "Let's send in the marines" fame)

These men can navigate silently at night, crawl through narrow ravines, climb near vertical obstacles and are trained and equipped with means to cut through fencing; they can kill silently or lie in wait for days on end, These jihadis are not ordinary gun toting goons. they are the cream of the cream of motivated jihadis. Pakistan no doubt spends much effort on their training but are cheap (no maintenance) because they are sent as Fidayeen - Islam tells them that they are supposed to die (contrary to the dog-turd blabla info that suicide is not allowed in Islam.

However the real number of motivated and trained people cannot be as high as the ordinary cannon fodder jihadis - but we must appreciate and understand that these men are dangerous SF-like soldiers out of uniform. That is why they were so good and gave our undoubtedly brave and competent security forces a run for our money. We must be thankful that the terrorists were not allowed to do much more damage

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya G » 05 Jan 2016 13:36

Account by Subedar Major (Hony. Captain) Fateh Singh's daughter

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... -daughter/

...“Papa left around 2 am as his duty was to start at 3 am {Attack was timed accordingly}. After we heard the shots we got up and came out and started looking for Papa,” said Madhu, a postgraduate in English working as a teacher. '

“An Air Force personnel asked us to go inside as the firing was very close to our room and told us that some terrorists have entered the air base. We went inside and hid under the bed… Not knowing that Papa had already fallen to terrorists’ bullets, we kept calling on his cellphone but got no reply,” she told The Indian Express from Mhow, where the family has returned

....


From above I deduce Fateh Singh was in the party which made the first fire contact.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shaun » 05 Jan 2016 13:42

The equipment you are talking about are thermal imaging cameras and those cameras can be in remote places or at check post used by the sentries. The Toilet report did not explicitly identify those TI cameras being installed at some remote difficult hostile terrain and actually hand held thermal imagers . Two cameras not functioning that too simultaneously at a strategic place is a serious lapse . An equipment may fail for N number of reasons but keeping them in operation is the duty of those in the "loop" who very well know the ability and requirement of such sensors in such weather conditions where naked visibility is restricted to few meters. so the words lethargic ( might not be those sentries but technicians or engineers who upkeep them ) and ill prepared ( certainly those sentries ). This blame can go higher up if there is any investigation and don't know where it will end .
Last edited by shaun on 05 Jan 2016 13:48, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby bahdada » 05 Jan 2016 13:43

However the real number of motivated and trained people cannot be as high as the ordinary cannon fodder jihadis - but we must appreciate and understand that these men are dangerous SF-like soldiers out of uniform. That is why they were so good and gave our undoubtedly brave and competent security forces a run for our money. We must be thankful that the terrorists were not allowed to do much more damage


That's the god damn problem. They have the criminal, deviant and trainable Islamic fodder for training and dispatch against a professional officer led Institution. This should be unacceptable. The equation has to be changed. 1:1 cannot apply. Unikrishan and Niranjan who were trained and developed served for what?

In the next week all will be normal I guess.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby RajeshA » 05 Jan 2016 13:49

SwamyG wrote:Western leaders demonstration of anger is 'manufactured' for the domestic audience. Theatrics have their role in swaying public opinion, and often in the West they have to build public opinion to hit foreign targets.


Perhaps it is a mixture of both - manufactured as well as genuine anger. The genuine anger may even be for pushing them personally into a difficult political situation.

However a calm demeanor does signal that the nation is not rattled by this attack!

And yes, we don't need to muster public opinion behind any response by GoI to Pak. The public opinion is always there in favor of a nice thrashing! In the end the proof is in the pudding.

We have every right to be angry with Pakistan, but it is completely useless to blow hot and cold regarding GoI's response to Pak just as yet! In six months time, we will have a very good idea of how NaMo's government handles Paki terrorism.

As citizens, we want Pakistan to bleed ... profusely, in ways imaginable and as yet unimaginable by us. Sooner or later we will know if NaMo's govt can deliver us this wish!

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 05 Jan 2016 13:50

If you install a camera over a football field, only one camera is enough to keep watch on the entire field for movement. But in dense jungle that is cut up by rivulets the total area that can be seen by one camera might be 20 feet x 20 feet (see the field of view of that camera in the Coyote Video posted by VikramS) Assuming that one camera shows 400 sq ft of terrain, on would need 100 cameras for 1 acre. The Pathankot base is spread over 6000 acres, Even if the rough terrain with forests and nullahs is merely 100 acres one would need 10,000 cameras to cover that area.

Here is that Coyote video again - just see what a minuscule area it covers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... ETSuPw-i18

Does someone seriously think this is a good solution? Or that failure of a few cameras will not be fixed because of laziness?

For an area are large as 100 acres one would need an aerial camera which has foliage penetrating radar and IR. The forces will pick up a villager going for a shit even. But what will they do? Shoot at sight? Send a search party? Now this is where the wisdom of what Maroof Raza said comes out.

By forcing the Indian Armed forces to look after every inch of their own security Pakistan is successfully eroding their morale because huge amounts of time and effort and man hours are spent on things that are not worth that much effort and the true purpose of the armed forces - to fight and defeat the enemy is sidelined.

I would prefer to trust the word and judgement of the armed forces here than forum gossip and blame game

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rkhanna » 05 Jan 2016 14:02

The government will investigate the two apparent lapses made by security forces that seemed to have occurred during the Pathankot terrorist attack: One, the failure to detect the infiltration of the heavily armed terrorist group, most probably members of the Jaish-e-Mohammed, well-trained and ready to die, across the Punjab border and two, their entry into the Pathankot air force station undetected.

At the same time, an internal assessment within the government has appreciated the fact that civilian casualties were fully avoided and so was any damage to the high value air assets like fighter aircraft and helicopters.

At first glance, the casualty figures of seven security personnel killed looks high and unacceptable, but a closer scrutiny shows up that only two security personnel -- a brave, unarmed DSC (Defence Security Corps) soldier and an IAF Garud commando -- were actually martyred in direct combat with the terrorists.

Four other DSC men were unlucky to have been caught out unarmed and unprepared while they were in a cookhouse. The terrorists chanced upon them and killed four of them instantly
.

One of them was so brave that in an act reminiscent of Constable Tukaram Omble's bravery during the 26/11 attacks, chased a terrorist, turned his weapon and killed him before being eliminated by the remaining terrorists. This man -- reports have said it was Jagdish Singh -- deserves the highest award for his gallantry.

And so does Garud Commando Gursewak Singh, who confronted the terrorists at a crucial junction and prevented them from proceeding towards the technical area where the air assets are located before being martyred.


Lieutenant Colonel Niranjan Kumar's death during clearing operations was unfortunate and once again demonstrates that bomb disposal is a highly risky and unpredictable operation even in the most benign circumstances.


http://www.rediff.com/news/column/security-forces-didnt-want-more-casualties/20160105.htm
Last edited by ramana on 05 Jan 2016 21:30, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ramana

shaun
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shaun » 05 Jan 2016 14:05

Sir , those are Hand held Thermal Imagers , so you don't need to fixed it at point and thus the restriction you are talking too goes away with it. Wish those HHTI were with the DSCs too .

What Maroof Raza is saying every one knows , but what we have done about it ?? Now that we can't take the war to the enemy , the only doable thing is to save the vital assets and lives and if it can be enhanced by some gizmos , let it be.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rajanb » 05 Jan 2016 14:42

The info I am getting that we do not have a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP), even after 26/11 to handle such situations. (Shades of Operation Brasstacks and then the emergence of ColdStart)

Please correct me if I am wrong. Been inactive for long.

Also the NSA asked for only 50 soldiers from the Army, and then realized the gravity of the attack and asked for 150 more. Too little too late, for such a big facility with all its assets.

The Op was being handled out of New Delhi. A surprise to me considering Pathankot has battle hardened, counter insurgency troops stationed there. Seems to have been a terrible lot of fumbling.

Hope this has not been posted before. Worth a read.

https://mansolaris.wordpress.com/2016/01/04/the-pathankot-paradox/

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Singha » 05 Jan 2016 15:58

Indian express.

suspected babbar khalsa sympathizer.

...
Delhi Police have questioned three men, including an Army officer, in connection with the attack on the Pathankot airbase. They have been questioned for over two days, sources said.
Last edited by ramana on 05 Jan 2016 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: DP means IB. ramana

vasu raya
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby vasu raya » 05 Jan 2016 16:05

This was good ops overall,

DSC casualties were mostly noncombatant and they could have avoided such by declaring active shooting area on first contact by the Garud squad. At least one doesn't get caught in plain sight.

They were combatants just wasted, Special forces go to any corner of the country they would need to work with local police whose training is a mix, and they are available in larger numbers, a few commandos out of the main force should be tasked to lead such squads and make them effective, maybe learn the universal sign language, supply similar levels of comms and equipment during ops

and to note, Foliage penetrating radars were denied by the US, indigenous ones currenty are still in development by DRDO

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 05 Jan 2016 16:12

rkhanna wrote:
The government will investigate the two apparent lapses

Rediff does not quote the name of the government source that they claim has said this - and that too before the ops are over

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya G » 05 Jan 2016 16:44

vasu raya wrote:...DSC casualties were mostly noncombatant and they could have avoided such by declaring active shooting area on first contact by the Garud squad. At least one doesn't get caught in plain sight....


Out of 5 DSC troops only 2 were 'surprised' by the terrorists. Lt. Col. Niranjan was also in 'combat' in a sense.

I really hope that we will learn the details of how the first 2 contacts played out. Why did we loose men? Everybody has assumed that DSC guys were killed just because they are "in their fifties" and "past their prime" etc plus excuses on equipment etc. But that does not apply to Garuds.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Chinmayanand » 05 Jan 2016 16:54

आज तक (@aajtak) tweeted at 5:39 PM on Tue, Jan 05, 2016:
BREAKING NEWS: बार-बार बयान बदल रहे हैं गुरदासपुर के SP सलविंदर सिंह: DG, NIA #aajtak

https://t.co/9sk8tHNITL
(https://twitter.com/aajtak/status/68434 ... 82880?s=03)

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Jan 2016 16:57

Parikkar quoted on Z
weapons were sourced from Pakistan: Parrikar

One terrorist still has body vest with a grenade, I've ordered it be destroyed where he's lying. We've lost one life due to booby trap: Parrikar

The minister says terrorists had 40-50 kg bullets and huge amount of grenades. Early indications suggest some of the material is made in Pakistan.

Soldiers killed in the attack will get 'battle casualty status' and all its benefits, announces Parrikar.

Combing operations are still on for safety purposes, likely to end by tomorrow: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar

Parrikar says six terrorists have been neutralised at the air base, two bodies have been burnt.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar begins addressing a press conference. The minister says he has visited all the places where the gun battle took place.

Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif calls PM Narendra Modi to assure his support. (Also Read: Nawaz Sharif calls PM Narendra Modi, assures him of action in Pathankot terror attack probe)
Last edited by ramana on 05 Jan 2016 21:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ramana. Look slike Forum advise being implemented!

UlanBatori
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Jan 2016 17:02

Report that someone posted insult against NSG Lt.Col. Niranjan, and now arrested as traitor :eek: :shock:

Kerala Police shown firing into the air in salute. Smoke actually came out of half the rifles.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Karan M » 05 Jan 2016 17:18

This scumbag

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 622_1.html

A police official, attached to the Chevayur Police station, told IANS that Anwar Sadiq, 24, was arrested on Tuesday from his home in Malappuram district.

"He had created a Facebook profile with a fake name and claimed he was a journalist with the Madhyamam Daily. Following a complaint from the Daily and revelation that there was nobody of that name employed with them, police probed and arrested this person," said the official requesting anonymity.

The official said the arrested man has been charged under Sec 124 (A) of the Indian Penal Code as his comments are of an anti-national nature. "He will be produced before a court. He has said that he did not know that it was a crime."


Just shows the complete lack of morality that he did not know being anti national was a crime.. freaking scumbag
Last edited by Karan M on 05 Jan 2016 17:21, edited 1 time in total.

Karan M
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Karan M » 05 Jan 2016 17:20

BTW why the f are we discussing robots again??

This report has already been posted multiple times.

DRDO's Daksh ROV.

http://sakaaltimes.com/NewsDetails.aspx ... bot%20help
http://indianexpress.com/article/cities ... mechanism/

Long story short Army has Daksh. It has been used extensively and now a new variant is there.

Paramils are now trialing it to purchase it.

UlanBatori
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Jan 2016 17:26

"anti-national nature".
He has said that he did not know that it was a crime."

Says it all. It is probably **NOT** a crime, and well over 50% of his co-Malappuris****** share his general attitude. India should buy some Su-24s.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby nits » 05 Jan 2016 17:30

So did NSA errored by sending NSG and not using Ghatak or other Army specialized forces...


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