Pathankot AirForce base under attack

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 06 Jan 2016 17:00

Supposedly now suspicious movements have been noticed elsewhere in Punjab. Army doing search operations

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 06 Jan 2016 17:08

High alert in Gurdaspur, area near military station cordoned off:
The Tibri military station in Gurdaspur has been cordoned-off after two suspicious-looking men in military uniform were seen near the base.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 17:42

The SP in trouble was Gurdaspur SP..

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 17:48

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/pol ... aliuI.html

All sorts of chalta hain..how are such illegal encroachments allowed? Are those 70 families protected by some local politico?

Police begin head count of Gujjar muslims living near Pathankot base

Chitleen K Sethi, Hindustan Times, Pathankot | Updated: Jan 06, 2016 18:15 IST
Even as the National Investigation Agency (NIA) and Punjab Police began investigations into the terrorist attack at the Pathankot airbase, Punjab Police have launched a head count of the Gujjar Muslim community living along the nullah that runs next to the airbase.

While investigating agencies do not have a conclusive evidence pointing to their having played a “direct supportive” role in the entry of terrorists into the base, “nothing can be ruled out”, said a senior Punjab Police officer involved in the investigation. What has, however, led the cops to gather information about the community is the almost regular entry of the Gujjars to the air force station to carry out various works.

Traditionally, the nomadic community rears cattle and comes down from colder areas in the hills to northern districts of Punjab and lives here in makeshift mud houses near nullahs or choes. However, over the years, many of these families have settled permanently on occupied lands in Hoshiarpur, Gurdaspur and Pathankot districts.

With permanent houses, some Gujjars have settled in Naushera and Dehriwal villages, close to the boundary wall of the airbase. Mohan Singh, Dehriwal village panchayat member, said, “These families, almost 70 of them, have been occupying the village common land but no action has been taken against them. We have been complaining against them. They have no accountability and no one knows who comes to meet them. They are not under the watch of the panchayat as they live closed, isolated lives.”

Mohan said they “routinely” went inside the air force station with their animals for grazing in the forest area and are well versed with the contours of the base. “They are checked at the entry, but a single I-card allows several of them inside,” he added.

Mangal Singh Bajwa, a resident of Dhaki area near the base, said the airbase authorities charged Rs 20 per entry from these Gujjars for collecting fodder for animals.

Locals unhappy

While the locals are “annoyed” that these communities are illegally occupying large tracts of village common lands around the airbase and no action is taken to evict them from the area, police also seem helpless in getting these communities to move away.

Kunwar Vijay Pratap Singh, DIG border range, Punjab, said, “Following the Dinanagar attack, we realised that the temporary and also permanent settlements of the Gujjars are near army and other defence establishments. In August last year, I even suggested that the district administrations start the process of evicting these people from near army installations. But I don’t think much was done.”

However, following the recent attack, the state police have asked district chiefs to start a head count of the community members.

“We already have a complete record of the community in Hoshiarpur. Our men are in constant touch with the heads of these settlements,” said Hoshiarpur SSP Dhanpreet Kaur. A day after the Pathankot attack, Jalandhar SSP Harmohan Singh Sandhu instructed all SHOs in the district to locate and get details of the Gujjars.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 06 Jan 2016 18:06

Zee News (@ZeeNews) tweeted at 7:00 PM on Wed, Jan 06, 2016:

Gurdaspur on high alert as suspicious men in army uniform seen near Tibri military station

https://t.co/sKgpgUeYsk
(https://twitter.com/ZeeNews/status/6847 ... 84003?s=03)

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 06 Jan 2016 18:13

There is life in the woodwork - the termites are out to play... Pick a shade of yellow and one can paint these so called journalists/analysts with it...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35232599

It took Indian authorities four days to put down a deadly attack on the Pathankot air force base near the Pakistani border which killed seven Indian soldiers and wounded another 22. The inept handling of the security operation can only be described as a debacle, writes defence analyst Rahul Bedi.

But military analysts said India's response to the attack was amateurish - there were inadequate offensive measures and the multiplicity of forces involved and a lack of suitable equipment rendered the entire operation a near fiasco.

The DSC comprises retired and unmotivated military personnel, whilst the Garuds continue to struggle for operational relevance amongst the plethora of India's burgeoning Special Forces

The NSG is also strapped for equipment - it has no competent night vision devices and other materiel necessary for an operation of the kind in Pathankot - military sources said.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/why-some ... es-1262528

Why Some Allege Pathankot 'Worst-Planned Op In 3 Decades'
All India | Written by Vishnu Som | Updated: January 06, 2016 07:08 IST

A senior army officer closely involved in monitoring the operations told me, "This is the worst planned operation in more than three decades."

I have also been told by reliable sources that there was a full-fledged disagreement between an Army Brigadier commanding operations till then, and the Inspector General (Operations) of the National Security Guard, who flew in on the orders of the Home Ministry. The situation became more confusing when the Air Officer Commanding, Western Air Command, was asked to fly to Pathankot to take key decisions in the conduct of the ongoing encounter prompting another disagreement, this time between the Air Force and the National Security Guard. The lack of cooperation and coordination between the different agencies was blistering.

Ultimately, the Army Brigadier stood down since he was junior to the NSG's IG (Operations), who has the rank of Major General. The National Security Guard ultimately retained overall control of the remainder of the operation though the Air Officer Commanding, an Air Marshal, remained on the airbase.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 562_1.html

Ajai Shukla: Between Mr Doval and the deep blue sea
Inept handling has transformed what should have been a short counter-terrorist operation in Pathankot into an apparent debacle

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 06 Jan 2016 18:18

Putin and KGB knew how to handle such scums. slow poisoning.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 06 Jan 2016 18:29

manjgu wrote:screambowl..i was referring to something totally different. i was referring to the futility of gizmos( however useful they may be) in case of a surprise attack..detection of intrusion is one aspect but being able to counter it in time is another. with the kind of manpower that is generally available at a AF station, they will be hard pressed to stop well trained/drilled terrorists. the solution is something else, which many members have indicated. My dad used to go sometimes to the bank for cash collection for pay parade with 3/4 armed Airmen and he used to tell my mom ,,in case of a melee or attack they might end up shooting each other. the airmen had never really trained with weapons ...

And I am sure this is not only the place which could be under scanner of enemy to launch more such attacks. Why Pathankot? Why Not Srinagar? I am only pointing towards this logic that Enemy is really good in analysis ( even if we take it hypothetically). They knew that even after credible pinpoint inputs from Indian agencies, the counter attack will require long to neutralize the terrorists at Pathankot.

Because after getting inputs how the system will function to prevent the attack , the enemy was aware of this. Even after Mumbai, Gurdaspur kind of attacks, things haven't changed much. And Enemy knows this.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 06 Jan 2016 18:35

Pranay wrote:There is life in the woodwork - the termites are out to play... Pick a shade of yellow and one can paint these so called journalists/analysts with it...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35232599

It took Indian authorities four days to put down a deadly attack on the Pathankot air force base near the Pakistani border which killed seven Indian soldiers and wounded another 22. The inept handling of the security operation can only be described as a debacle, writes defence analyst Rahul Bedi.

But military analysts said India's response to the attack was amateurish - there were inadequate offensive measures and the multiplicity of forces involved and a lack of suitable equipment rendered the entire operation a near fiasco.

The DSC comprises retired and unmotivated military personnel, whilst the Garuds continue to struggle for operational relevance amongst the plethora of India's burgeoning Special Forces

The NSG is also strapped for equipment - it has no competent night vision devices and other materiel necessary for an operation of the kind in Pathankot - military sources said.
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 562_1.html

Ajai Shukla: Between Mr Doval and the deep blue sea
Inept handling has transformed what should have been a short counter-terrorist operation in Pathankot into an apparent debacle

Never knew Mr. Shooklaw could write perfect Queens English. Everyone seems to be super unhappy that airbase is still intact and their primary mission failed.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2016 18:37

if the idea was just to kill people , they could have hid in the forest and killed 300 people with their arms and ammo by attacking a couple of villages.

perhaps the TSPA is testing out strategies for a bigger wartime play...nothing like destroying aircraft on the ground

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 06 Jan 2016 18:48

Singha wrote:if the idea was just to kill people , they could have hid in the forest and killed 300 people with their arms and ammo by attacking a couple of villages.

perhaps the TSPA is testing out strategies for a bigger wartime play...nothing like destroying aircraft on the ground

Can't agree more.

Hypothesis:
They gave a message that, good or bad relations , Pak foreign policy of using terror will not change.
But the shift will be, rather targeting civilians, they will now target military installations(this is though doubtful). And basic agenda of composite dialogue should be Kashmir.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Jan 2016 18:57

Kuch meetha ho jaye (eye candy):

Mi-17-1V with gun pods:

Akbar! No chin gun though

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 06 Jan 2016 18:58

tsarkar wrote:
deejay wrote:Use of Air Assets in CI Ops, specifically helicopters:
> I have fired from MI 17s and not MI 25 / 35s so I will be accurate for Mi 17 but generic for the attack helos
> Helicopters have heavy vibrations because of Main Rotor and TR
> Firing distance is between 700 mtrs to 01 kms ideally
> I mm shake in the gun per sec will get a large area spray over targets - Rockets or Bullets
> This shake is circular.
> Therefore, point targets are not good targets for helicopters.
> I see videos of Hinds in Syria and see them go after only area targets while using rockets and front guns.
> Terrorists were blocked in a small area by keeping our troops in firing distance.
> Moving our troops back would be required for any aerial firing (even fighters) and this would ease the pressure on terrorists as they could move in a larger area. Remember, casualties were being measured by all. Terrorists just need to be lucky - we need to be sure. AKMs have an approx effective range of 400 mtrs but lucky shots at 500 mtrs are not unheard of. So, our troops would have to move back from maximum 400 mtrs (or closer upto ~100 mtrs depending on cover ) to wider approx 500 mtrs net.
I thought the Mi-25/35 had stabilized guns slaved to the Israeli EO sight. Is it not?

Mi-17 ofcourse has pylon mounted gun packs that are not stabilized.

Our Super Dvora XFAC pitch worse than horses, however, the stabilized gun slaved to the same EO sight and remote controlled from the bridge is extremely steady and accurate.

PS - Do Mi-25/35 transferred to Afghanistan retain those Israeli sights, or have they been removed?

Sir,

> With Mi 25s/ 35s my answer was generic
> Stabilization of any sort will still leave some movement. From firing distances over 0700 mtrs that will cause an area spray.

As to the Afghanistan machines, I am not aware.

Added later: Helicopters have this constant "shake". You can actually make out the pilot heads shake in the Mi17s from close up and it is about 02 beats per second. Excessive vibrations are a frequent reason for helicopter un-serviceability.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 06 Jan 2016 19:00

Aditya G, I could not see the gun on the Mi 17. These are the rocket pod / bomb pylons. And both inner pylons seem to have bombs. Same with the Akbar.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Jan 2016 19:12

Prasad wrote:So Vishnu reports that command and control aspect of the ops were bad and also that NSG might've been better off held in reserve if HR was needed and para sf might've been more apt. Given that the terrorists had not hit and infantry was being called up for perimeter security and technical area security, why use nsg? They aren't better equipped or experienced at hunting these rats in open areas than the sf guys no?

I am not saying I agree with Vishnu, but would the situation be different if the Special Operations Division already in place?

Current state: Intell -> NSA -> NSG plus FYI to COAS and CAS. Result: snafu

Ideal State: Intell -> NSA -> CDS -> SOD. Result: all iz well

I think part of the problem lies in the C&C has a civilian reporting which effectively cut out the defence hierarchy. Eg: Parrikar was nowhere on the scene for first couple of days.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 06 Jan 2016 19:19

Sid wrote:
Pranay wrote:There is life in the woodwork - the termites are out to play... Pick a shade of yellow and one can paint these so called journalists/analysts with it...

/SNIP

Never knew Mr. Shooklaw could write perfect Queens English. Everyone seems to be super unhappy that airbase is still intact and their primary mission failed.

It is almost expected at this point. If you go back and read past articles by Rahul Bedi, the tone and the insinuations are always the same. The Army/NSG/SF have no clue about anything, leadership is lacking, every operation is a debacle and is hastily covered up by bumbling armed forces. The quality of journalism by Indian media as always is appalling and no doubt helps the Pakis score points against us.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 06 Jan 2016 19:24

OT:why this sado-masochist urge to look for pee pee cee articles?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2016 19:25

india media , like bollywood _is_ the soft power arm of the islamists.

some of the russian hinds like this in syria have this fairly ugly side cannon that would be enough for a IFV - contractor grade stuff for the lords work.

member_23679 · Post by **member_23679** » 06 Jan 2016 19:29

habal wrote:My guess is NSA had guessed that Marcos, AF were activated to protect the airbase assets. And for rest was living quarters, administrative block, medical care facilities etc which would have required NSG. Nobody thought at first that most of the fight would happen in open areas.

Again I am having a feeling about this attack in that there is somewhere a hint that Masood Azhar's card has been cut. he has not uttered a word about this attack, though JeM has claimed in it's facebook page on very first day that they were responsible. What does this mean ?? It means that in continuation of recent trends in Pakistan on 'Karachi Operation' (war against contract killing, kidnapping, ransom), dard-e-kabz, and talk about cleansing Punjab in preparation for CECP. This is a brainwave by Raheel & Nawaz to get the alibi to cleanse Punjab of extremist elements and the biggest and most influential amongst these elements in Punjab are Malik Ishaq, Masood Azhar & Hafiz Saeed. Out of this first has been bumped off, third is quivering and only second is effective. Rest you connect the dots.

Boss - do you have a link for their Facebook Page where they made the claim ?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Jan 2016 19:43

deejay wrote:Aditya G, I could not see the gun on the Mi 17. These are the rocket pod / bomb pylons. And both inner pylons seem to have bombs. Same with the Akbar.

Both types are carrying gun pods:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_hV7gqNEPTI/T ... 1%2529.JPG

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Jan 2016 19:51

Neatly done INSAS LMG:

ID the rifle?

Better Akbar pics. It looks ugly and ungainly on ground but in the air its something else!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Jan 2016 20:06

There they are: IA has also discovered Balaclava helmets/ face masks?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 20:07

Sid, major disappointment amongst the whole gang. Airbase secure, no major assets lost, Modi didn't even make any impassioned speeches or admissions of failure. What to do? Call it bad planning and go after the NSA.

Bunch of crooks and thanks to petty ego clashes enough folks within the admin will go along with them. Of course chaps like Malik (he of phenomenal success in detecting Kargil ops and running the ops very well right from the beginning) are now giving advice. In the past too, he has taken shots at the BJP and called them names, clearly to ingratiate himself with the prior dispensation.

Just shows how deep the Kangress system runs.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 20:07

UlanBatori wrote:There they are: IA has also discovered Balaclava helmets/ face masks?

NSG not IA.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 20:10

Aditya, that rifle looks like a variant of an Israeli DAN 0.338
http://www.ammoland.com/2014/06/israel- ... z3wTmfzXlo

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 06 Jan 2016 20:13

Aditya G wrote:
deejay wrote:Aditya G, I could not see the gun on the Mi 17. These are the rocket pod / bomb pylons. And both inner pylons seem to have bombs. Same with the Akbar.
Both types are carrying gun pods:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_hV7gqNEPTI/T ... 1%2529.JPG

Thanks for the front view. Stupid mistake from me.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 06 Jan 2016 20:20

That Shukla fellow is all over the internet and media trying to malign the operation and government as much as possible. And what is happening in that points raised by him and some other idiots have been picked up other journos; these worthies are asking stand-alone questions to well meaning ex-army chaps and then quoting them out of context to fill an already decided theme.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 20:23

Its not just Shukla, the entire c-system has been activated. Shukla, rrNDTV, all the usual suspects..Bedi, Guruswamy and rest will follow. And even, some of these rtd types quoted have made a good killing out of being constantly on call as "experts" and have now got into the habit of even second guessing their serving juniors and colleagues and making outrageous statements for the instant notoriety. Sadly, the sane, silent types are nowhere in the picture.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 Jan 2016 20:31

Rahul Kanwal had a panel of experts - former diplomats and former military personnel plus Thomas from Vadakkan, everybody ganged up and beat poor Sambit Patra (and BJP).

Added: G.Parthasarthy was one of them who kept wondering why Army was not used. Several others agreed.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Jan 2016 20:44

If the Gurdaspur SP speculation is correct, Smuggler operations/logistics were used for terror. This is nothing new, dates back to Dawood network being used for transporting RDX in 93 mumbai blasts.

Remember some time back during the boat incident, the whole bunch of Media wallahs were hyperventilating

"WAS IT A TERROR BOAT OR SMUGGLER BOAT HAIN JI??!!! MY SOURCES SAY THEY WERE INNOCENT SMUGGLERS ONLEE!!!!!!!!!!! WHY WERE THEY KILLED?!!!!!!!!!!!! ZOMG INTOLERANCE GUJRAT GRANDMA BOAT COMMUNAL!!!!!!1111111 #SackDoval #59InchChest #Outrage #Shame #HyoomanRights"

Should be lined up and the boat shoved up their musharrafs. This is why smugglers who intrude across borders and do not stop when challenged should be dealt with the way they were dealt with.

Just like how the SP couldnt stop the so-called-smugglers and finish his interrogation

"Are you here to make some money through smuggled goods or do you plan to kill Indians? If you plan to kill Indians, is it for the purposes of terrorism or is it for the purposes of gang warfare/non payment of dues for smuggled items? Do you plan to injure Indians? If so, do you plan to do it purposely?" The reason I am asking is, if you are here for the purposes of smuggling, then it is okay. If you are here for the purposes of terrorism, I need to write to head office, gather proof and then prosecute accordingly.

Maybe we shouldnt interrogate suspected smuggler boats and blow them all up.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Jan 2016 20:48

Also Shukla-ji is going along the lines of "Info was gold, but Doval mismanaged the ops onleeee". Did it ever occur to him to think where/why the intelligence came by so much in advance? Do you sincerely believe "we did phone intercepts and SP told us" was the source of the intel?

He came around vis-a-vis Arjun Tank after a decade or so of maligning it. Maybe he will see the light in 10 years.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 20:52

I doubt he will see any light because his BIL is in National Herald case. ZOMG the intolerance.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 06 Jan 2016 20:55

Gurus,
I have to humbly ask you a question.
When does the 72 hours deadline, our current government has given, ends?
This is not political.
This is about Bharat Mata's honour.
You may ask, "In what way"?
For the death of our bravehearts, regardless of colour in the human, political or religious spectrum.
To me, our response was a botched operation.
At the age of 70, with my own family in the 1947 invasion, covering it all till today, with close family being involved with all the wars, fabulous pictures do not impress me.
Cold blooded ****** logic does.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 06 Jan 2016 21:08

Karan M wrote:I doubt he will see any light because his BIL is in National Herald case. ZOMG the intolerance.

Karan, who is this person? This is a pretty serious conflict of interest that he should have disclosed in his reportage on the govt. We should demand full disclosure on twitter if this is the case.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 06 Jan 2016 21:09

rajanb wrote:Gurus,
I have to humbly ask you a question.
When does the 72 hours deadline, our current government has given, ends?
This is not political.
This is about Bharat Mata's honour.
You may ask, "In what way"?
For the death of our bravehearts, regardless of colour in the human, political or religious spectrum.
To me, our response was a botched operation.
At the age of 70, with my own family in the 1947 invasion, covering it all till today, with close family being involved with all the wars, fabulous pictures do not impress me.
Cold blooded ****** logic does.

Sir, I made this post after I saw the first news of 72 hrs ultimatum:

deejay wrote:The 72 hrs ultimatum is quite clear and it clearly says we will not have talks if no action is taken. Kutti! Nahin bolta, jao!

There is no plan of retaliation. BTW, since I don't know when the PM issued the statement the countdown maybe started from the rediff timeline of posting the news January 04, 2016 08:58 or 0900 hrs on 04th Jan. 72 hrs would make it 0900 hrs 07th Jan. Pakistan you have lost 01 hrs 15 mins already.

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 06 Jan 2016 21:10

Not a single journalist is aware of what info came from intelligence , what were the inputs. How accurate were the inputs. What weapons they carried, how much ammo they had, etc.. So they are just bunch of entertainers.

NSA Dobhal has long ago in it's interview said that, inputs are raw data and it has to be connected with other inputs and then an analysis is done, with assumptions and approximation.

For example: terrorist plan to strike in Pathankot in first week of Jan. Could be 6-15. May carry explosives in huge apart from ammo.

now what explosives, how much , what grade, weapon as explosive or plain explosives? etc etc.. It is not easy to be accurate all the time.

One can only learn from this attack that, first send the assessment team along with RR+NSG to analyse the intensity of fire and learn about the weapons, area of operation and on that basis keep NSG/ParaSF/SAG/Marcos/Army on the standby around the area.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 21:14

Bharat Matas honor is emotional appeal. As is bringing in death of bravehearts. Which is contradictory to "cold blooded ****** logic" which would entail repaying TSP in its own coin & avoiding any combat ops whatsoever because they would entail more loss of bravehearts. And therein lies the crux, starting any op which minimizes latter involves tracking all the non glamorous stuff GOI is doing for serviceability, ammo reserves and so forth. But that is always a loser in discussions since precious few are interested in the topic or it gets conflated with, but we will never act. At end of day, 18 months cannot reverse decades of mess and time will be taken. Question is what is the end objective and if current GOI has come around to the rationale BRF has.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 06 Jan 2016 21:15

sudeepj wrote:
Karan M wrote:I doubt he will see any light because his BIL is in National Herald case. ZOMG the intolerance.
Karan, who is this person? This is a pretty serious conflict of interest that he should have disclosed in his reportage on the govt. We should demand full disclosure on twitter if this is the case.

It was printed in Outlook

https://twitter.com/india_msm/status/638770740758773760

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 06 Jan 2016 21:17

IMVHO 72 Hours ultimatum BS is nothing but DDM creation. They are using the words 'Reportedly', 'Sources' etc etc.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Jan 2016 21:18

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/path ... 64087.html

Pathankot terrorists trained in Pak at Chaklala or Lyallpur airbase: Top security officer

Though the attack took the establishment by surprise, expensive and strategic assets like aircraft and missiles were taken away 2 days before the strike.

Reflecting on the time taken to complete the operation, the official said the forces were keen on capturing the terrorists alive by draining the terrorists of their food and ammunition supplies as well as tire them psychologically.