Pathankot AirForce base under attack

[Shreeman]

Wading into these waters is hazardous, but let me dip a toe. I dont often post serious prose so the mental exertion is going to be telling. Hopefully, it is not among post, after post, after post of one liners.

The time taken to complete something is irrelevent if quality of the outcome shines. Counter this with the sad realization that the discovery and needling of the soft underbelly in a harden target is bound to be a message, a signal, not some fortuitous accident. It is an escalation, demonstration of willingness to escalate, and of actual capability to do so.

The operation may or may not be over yet, but sufficient time has passed for pent up emotions to need constructive discharge. Here is what I saw,

1. A lot of hero worship. And not of the heroes.
2. Casualties. Some due to carelessness.
3. Equipment, sensor, and preparedness deficiencies.
4. A lot of back stabbing and inexplicable events.
5. Not a single appeal or action to take care of those now bereaved.

But I also saw,
1. Business being taken care of, on whom the burden eventually fell.
2. A lot of jugaad
3. Reasonable outcome as dust settles.

Here is what I recommend,
1. Support those on whom additional heavy burdens have resulted due to protecting you. THIS is what YOU should focus on.
2. In technology, mesh networks of sensors and cameras, at every facility. There is no such place as hinterland given the polity.
3. Automation and second and third pair of eyes on every thing.
4. Use what you have. Individuals on foot, vehicles not used for cost savings, equipment for maintenance savings ought to be a thing of past.
5. Practice. Exercises are not just photo ops. And hiding in the bush is not really the effective method any more.
6. Communicate effectively at every level. If there was an active media center in Delhi with morning and evening news conferences, no burka dutt would reach out to random ips reject. They would not have facetime left. Leave the media with empty pages or air time, expect nonsense.
7. Polity ought to separate itself from operation level. No matter how impressed you are with ex CIA, ex KGB and ISI/ex ISI running certain countries that will never work in india. India is not a one sided affair that will fall SOLELY to a cult figure. At the NATIONAL level. You will get cut down to state size again.
8. Respond. Nothing speaks like action. Nothing replaces it. Act. In any way shape or form that you can. Dont try to keep your options open or powder dry for a more swrious event. Respond continuously. Delegate the opportunity to respond and act opportunitically to the lowest level.
9. Use commerce as a stick. It changes the dialog. Media reacts to commercial action like nothing else.
10. Lastly, for the ordinary folks, business as usual. For the state, never forget. It is the reverse right now.

[Aditya G]

Deejay, mi-35s were tasked with airbase protection previously including during parakram. Any observations regarding their employment during this attack? Why they could not have used the chin mounted cannon? Or mi-17s with their gun pods for that matter

[chetak]

Bharti Jain ‏@bhartijainTOI Jan 4

Agencies to probe if weapons and ammo used by Pathankot attackers were dumped here before they sneaked in; role of smugglers to be examined

26 retweets 39 likes

[Vayutuvan]

AmberG: sorry it is the same noise we - as in the US SD - had been making nevertheless sans ==. As long as we provide support to the PA, nobody is going to act anybody. There is absolutely no explanation to the American public as to why our tax dollars are going to arm Pakistan.

[chetak]

AshDubey_ ‏@AshDubey_ Jan 3

Removing Ajit Doval is major "Strategic Goal" of Pakistan Army/ ISI.. I know some "journos", Congis, AAP will help them in this regard.

View conversation 422 retweets 180 likes

[anjan]

Shiv-ji, Anjan-ji and others:
Your thinking is justified for a hard state. For a soft state such as India (an assessment of B.Raman that I agree with) with a mix of external and home grown (naxals, religious and sectarian fanatics with covert support from West and North) terrorists, perimeter security of vital installations is very critical. I am for one grateful that the overall level of perimeter security in India has been substantially increased from the time of Parliamentary attack and 26/11.

This idea that you can scale a home protection device to defend a base is honestly ludicrous. I think it shows an ignorance of the vast spaces (as Shiv has been explaining) and the huge number of bases we're talking about and how org. logistics work. This is ignoring the sheer amount of (historic) right of way issues if you start fencing everything in sight. So the AF sensibly only protects the technical areas carefully. People don't seem to realize the sheer number of installations all over the place. and the spread of them. If you start defending only the airbases, tomorrow they'll hit arty or some other things. Ultimately it's only a question of headlines. You may as well burn a couple of 5tons and we'll still have a huge news spectacle and consequent lowering of morale and will. If we secure that (and if you start treating every place like a field area you'll simply burn people out) then they'll simply hit police stations next. What will we do next? They're all symbols of state. And in any case if you're not willing to use these assets of force then I'm not certain I see the value in defending them. What use those Mig-21s?

That's the more technical and in the process short sighted way of looking at it. At the core of it though, sovereignty is the monopoly on the use of force. Instruments of the state(police at a fine grain and depth and armed forces on a broader and shallower scale) are meant to dominate areas not cower inside bases. And certainly not in our own land. The state simply can't cede "everywhere but the bases" to the enemy. It then loses the very essence of what makes it a state. The DSC type force protection is for what we tend to call "miscreants" not armed and trained soldiers. An attack like this is an act of war. It's not a question of a soft or a hard state, it's a question of whether the state exists at all and is willing to exercise sovereignty.

[member_29218]

This hard state soft state is BS. A state is a state and its primary job is to provide security to its people/civilization. I don't give a damn if its hard, soft, poached or fried. States that can diagnose and respond effectively to challenges survive, those who can't perish. We have a very clear threat from Pakistan inspired fundamentally from religion (Read Shiv's posts to get some perspective). They will not change. They are waging war on us on our own soil with 0 response from us. They are forcing us into a ghetto mind frame forcing us to devote more and more resources into protecting first x, then y, then z. Forget the impossibility and economic costs of doing that, there is a more fundamental point.

You know what ? X, Y, Z are on Indian soil, and I as as a free born Indian have a bloody right to go there unencumbered and without fear.

Our comprehensive national power is 10 times theirs and they are neutering all of that by these tactics.

No state can be prosperous if it is not safe. And our safety lies not in ghettoizing, but in imposing costs on terror and eliminating its ring masters. Not emotion ....cold logic. Arre even from the woman who claims she loves I want to see action on ground not mere words....and vice versa.

Deejay, khoon khaulta hai, on our blindness and idiocy.

Khoon bahut khaulta hai. To paraphrase the old saying:

Aankh se ashq kab nahin tapkta?
Khoon tapakta hai jab, tab nahin tapakta

Been seeing this same behavior on BRF for many years now, right from Kargil onwards. The only difference today, IMHO is that after a long, long time, we have a leadership that is reminiscent of LBS during the '65 war.

I do hope there is some visible retaliation. Yes, things happen behind the scenes, but the Indian people need to see it for themselves. Nothing else will serve. However, instead of a knee-jerk response, it has to be a cold, calculated, long-term solution. There is no doubt in anyone's mind on this forum that we have been at war for years now and a solution is not likely to materialize or make a significant change in the short term. However, a different approach from the status quo has to be taken, else this will become a 'forever war' with disastrous consequences for the Indic people.

Post-IG, successive governments have adopted a 'wait and see' or simply a head in the sand policy. It is high time we changed the equation.

Sorry, been off the grid for a couple of weeks now.

[ramana]

AdityaG, After the first combat casualties (six dead0 there were no more combat casualties. The NSG Col and five others were during bomb disposal. So using helicopter cannon, tanks etc. all will destroy own assets. For what? Complete the Pakis job?

[anjan]

This hard state soft state is BS. A state is a state and its primary job is to provide security to its people/civilization. I don't give a damn if its hard, soft, poached or fried. States that can diagnose and respond effectively to challenges survive, those who can't perish.

Very well put. That is the essence of it.

[ShauryaT]

AdityaG, After the first combat casualties (six dead0 there were no more combat casualties. The NSG Col and five others were during bomb disposal. So using helicopter cannon, tanks etc. all will destroy own assets. For what? Complete the Pakis job?

Also, not clear how much time had elapsed between the first hit on the unsuspecting DSC in the mess and first detection. Was the DSC engagement in the mess, first point of contact? From what I am reading the detection happened prior to engagement with DSC. Also, the NSG was NOT in the base at time of first engagement and detection, so base only had DSC and Garuds at that time to secure this huge facility. Indicates location and time of attack were not clear through intelligence gained. All in all, again a bit unlucky but a fabulous job done by all concerned.

[chetak]

AdityaG, After the first combat casualties (six dead0 there were no more combat casualties. The NSG Col and five others were during bomb disposal. So using helicopter cannon, tanks etc. all will destroy own assets. For what? Complete the Pakis job?

Also, not clear how much time had elapsed between the first hit on the unsuspecting DSC in the mess and first detection. Was the DSC engagement in the mess, first point of contact? From what I am reading the detection happened prior to engagement with DSC. Also, the NSG was NOT in the base at time of first engagement and detection, so base only had DSC and Garuds at that time to secure this huge facility. Indicates location and time of attack were not clear through intelligence gained. All in all, again a bit unlucky but a fabulous job done by all concerned.

the NSG was very much on the base at the time but some distance away from the initial point of contact.

[chetak]

CNN-IBN News ‏@ibnlive 5h5 hours ago

#BREAKING | Explanation needs to be sought from NSA over #PathankotAttack, says Subramanian Swamy to CNN-IBN

[chetak]

rabid and greedy presstitute pushing her wares

Vande Mataram ‏@UnSubtleDesi Jan 3

Ma'am @BDUTT. Wht does it take for a citizen to use a terror attack on Indian soil to markt a book?

#PathankotAttack



Retweet 256 Like 83

[Amber G.]

When all is said and done..
In Pathankot, our security forces once again demonstrated their valour.
Join us in saluting their sacrifice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXguYevRD8o

[ramana]

Meanwhile:
Rediff: Abhay Jere (Don't know who he is but has effective rebuttal of Ajai Shukla's tirade)

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/doval ... 160105.htm

Doval's actions saved critical air assets in Pathankot

January 05, 2016 21:03 IST


National Security Advisor Ajit Doval'Ajit Doval has done a splendid job in handling the Pathankot attack and certainly helped save heavy destruction of critical air force assets,' says Abhay Jere.

Ajai Shukla's column is another example of the pathological hatred within a section of armchair columnists towards Narendra Modi's establishment.


Shukla has certainly pretended to be objective while analysing the handling of terrorist attack on the Pathankot airbase, but he has purposefully chosen to overlook/ignore the facts which does not support his viewpoint. Moreover, he has labelled all the journalists praising the handling of the Pathankot attack as National Security Advisor Ajit Doval's 'cheerleaders'.

So now let us systematically dissect the various issues raised by Shukla to perpetuate his prejudice that the Pathankot terrorist attack was poorly handled by Doval and that he is incompetent to be the NSA.


The first and foremost aspect of the Pathankot attack was the availability of credible intelligence inputs before the actual attack. This itself a very positive sign as India has paid heavily in the past for not having credible and actionable intelligence inputs prior to any major terrorist attacks like the 26/11 Mumbai attacks.

Doval, being an ex-spy, certainly must have done something right to ensure that our intelligence system is geared enough to give credible inputs. Needless to say, if we didn't have the intelligence inputs, then the damage would have been far worse.

Moreover, the primary objective of these terrorists was to destroy our critical air force assets, but our armed forces ensured that they were not successful.

In his article, Shukla implied that Doval was casual in his approach and initially failed to understand the gravity and magnanimity of the problem. He also suggested that Doval initially restricted the role of the army and relied on hapless Defence Security Corps jawans, thus resulting in more casualties. This is absolutely not true.

On the contrary, after getting credible intelligence of an imminent terror attack on the base last Friday itself, a special forces team of the Indian Army along with two infantry columns (25 to 30 soldiers per column) of the army were deployed at the air base.

In addition, a team of the National Security Guard's Black Cat Commandos was also immediately deployed. More importantly, the overall command of the entire military operation was with a brigadier of the Indian Army and then with an NSG Inspector General (Operations).

Later, nine more columns of the army were moved in to ensure that the entire base was sanitised and completely under control. Doval was continuously monitoring the situation and for the very reason he cancelled his scheduled visit to China.

{ I would add he was not attending Carnatic music katcheris unlike former NSA.}


Shukla says that NSG commandos are not the first line of defence and not trained to protect assets like airbases and only trained to flushing out terrorists holed up in a house. He is not completely right. NSG commandos are special forces under the ministry of home affairs primarily trained for combating terrorism in every form. Their training is comprehensive and covers all aspects of countering terrorism and not just the holed up terrorist.

The NSG commandos are trained to conduct counter-terrorist tasks that include counter-hijacking tasks on land, sea, and air; bomb disposal (search, detection and neutralisation of IEDs); post blast investigation as well as hostage rescue missions. Anyway, during the Pathankot operation, NSG commandos were never the first line of defence.

Finally, Shukla talks about the delay (three days) in finishing the operations, especially the time taken to neutralise the last two terrorists who were holed up in a staff residential building. Now, according to Shukla, the NSG commandos are experts in tackling holed up terrorists, then questioning the delay in neutralising the last two holed up terrorists is to directly question the competence and ability of our NGS commandos.


It will be extremely unfair on our part to make judgments regarding the length of duration of an operation sitting inside air-conditioned chambers in far away locations, as we are still unaware of all the details which might have resulted in the delay.

It also could have been a strategic decision by the NSG to ensure that the terrorists are tired before making the final assault.

I completely agree with Shukla on a couple of minor points. First, the statements by the home minister in almost announcing the end of the operation without validating all the facts could have been avoided. Moreover, Home Secretary Rajiv Mehrishi's statements during Sunday's press briefing were quite insensitive and should have been worded more carefully.

Having said this, I have no hesitation in proclaiming that Doval has done a splendid job in handling the Pathankot attack and has certainly helped saved heavy destruction of critical air force assets.

Instead of mindless criticism just based on prejudice and conjecture, people like Ajai Shukla, who have no real experience or expertise in counter-terrorism operations, need to learn to give credit where it is due.

[ramana]

I tweeted this:

In hindsight everything looks crystal clear. But to those in the thick of it there are: processes, procedures, institutional training, pressure to not fail, biases etc.

The operators are at the sharp end of a very broad wedge.
.
Any Root Cause Analysis which blames individuals/human errors without looking at the various factors is incomplete and will lead to repeats.

[ramana]

The after action is even more commendable if this report is right:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 460356.cms

NEW DELHI: The National Investigation Agency has found that three mobile phones were active in the vicinity of the air base on January 1 ahead of the terror attack. The phone of jeweller Rajesh Verma was used to make calls to numbers in Pakistan and the other two belonged to Gurdaspur superintendent of police Salwinder Singh. Both had allegedly been abducted by the terrorists the night before the attack and freed subsequently.

According to investigators, the discovery establishes that the terrorists had reached Pathankot on January 1 morning and waited until midnight before entering the air base. This information is corroborated by thermal images captured by an infrared camera installed at the gates of the base, said an official. The NIA has taken over the probe into the attack.

All three mobile phones became inactive by Friday night. Verma's phone battery was discharged and the two other phones were destroyed.

The finding indicates that the terrorists reached their destination before New Delhi issued an alert of a possible attack at the airbase. Government officials told ET that NSA Ajit Doval had called a meeting to analyse inputs provided by the Gurdaspur SP at 7.30 pm on January 1, when the terrorists were already near the base.

The agency is also examining whether the attackers were provided with any local support during their 10-hour stay near the air base. The NIA is piecing together the sequence of events and is said to have strong "leads" indicating that the militants came from Pakistan. As first reported by ET on Tuesday, a Pakistan shoe brand worn by one of the six terrorists is a key clue being investigated.

Also looks like NIA is making this a criminal case with FIRs and all that......

Same as 26/11 and seek TSP help in prosecuting the terrorists.

NEW DELHI: NIA today registered a case to probe the conspiracy of Pakistan-based terrorist group, believed to be Jaish-e-Mohammed, behind the strike at the IAF base in Pathankot in Punjab.

The case was initially registered by local police station in Pathankot that was transferred and handed over to the National Investigation Agency (NIA), a central probe agency that was set up after the audacious 26/11 Mumbai terror strike to probe all terror cases in the country.....



Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

[ramana]

Ind Exp

one incoming and 8 outgoing calls

Pathankot attack: On Dec 31, 9 Pakistan calls on taxi driver’s phone; one incoming, eight outgoing

Sources said police went through phone call details of Ikagar and found that he received a call from Pakistan which was followed by eight calls made to the other side in quick succession.

With questions being asked on how six terrorists managed to reach Pathankot airbase undetected, Punjab police began probing the “possible role of a smuggler-terrorist nexus” as a facilitator. Police are also studying nine phone calls to Pakistan — the first was an incoming call and the other eight were calls made to Pakistan — from the mobile phone of taxi driver Ikagar Singh whose body was found at a spot before the Katloh bridge over the Ravi.

Senior officers told The Indian Express that the first call was made to Ikagar from Pakistan on New Year’s Eve and, after a gap of about half-an-hour, as many as eight calls were made to Pakistan from his phone. Sources said police went through phone call details of Ikagar and found that he received a call from Pakistan which was followed by eight calls made to the other side in quick succession. “Had it been the other way round, that is, if the first call was made from his phone to the other side, we would have thought his phone was used by the terrorists. But his receiving a call had us interested,” sources said. “We cannot rule out anything at this juncture. That is why we checked his call details of one year but there was no call made to Pakistan or received by him from there. We are investigating… The story he gave his family about taking someone to a hospital turned out to be untrue… It is too early to say anything but we are looking at every angle,” sources said.

Meanwhile, police have also checked on the claims of Superintendent of Police Salwinder Singh who said he had been abducted by terrorists and dumped. “It is true that he had gone to the religious place in Narot Jaimal Singh he mentioned. This was verified from the managers there. He narrated the whole story to police several times. We are yet to decide what is to be done next. Everything cannot be disclosed at this juncture as this could affect investigations,” police sources said.

In other news Parrikar announced all six terrorists have been killed but combing operations are still going on.


he made a comment about a grenade which to me gives a clue of what happened to Lt, Col, Niranjan.

“There is no suspected terrorist inside right now… I will not give a negative report till the combing operations are over. The combing operations may be over by tomorrow,” he said in reply to questions. “One of the terrorists still has a body vest where they (security forces) can see a grenade stuck… I am very very clear they should not take any risk. We have already lost one person to a booby trap, so no more losses,” he said.

What this means ( and I want deejay or chetak to comment) the terrorists had grenade with the pin pulled out in their vest pocket. Its live and armed. But the pin that triggers it is depressed.

While Lt Col Niranjan was removing the grenade from the vest it went off.

we had early on asked TSJ about this and he explained some practices in US forces.



I wish Parrikar appoints a single spokesman, as the attack happened on AFB, to release all the details and not this dribbles of contradictory information.

[Amber G.]

duplicate - removed.

[Anujan]

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Pathank ... 461180.cms

Pathankot terror attack: Jihadis made dry runs at Pakistani air base, intelligence sources say

Highly-placed intelligence sources said they have come to the chilling determination on the basis of intelligence intercepts and from contacts in jehadi groups. They said the extensive training session at one of the Pakistani airbases included several dry runs of breaching the security perimeter: a lesson the terrorists put to lethal use when they managed to enter the Pathankot base.

[Sid]

Sorry if already posted, but for record..

"France condemns attack on Indian military base; stands alongside India in fight against terrorism"

Japan: "We condemn the terrorist attack.Terrorism cannot be justified for any reason. Japan expresses solidarity with gov & people of India"

For some reason I don't see folks changing their Facebook profile image background with Indian flag. I wonder why

[Amber G.]

Sorry if already posted, but for record.. Reactions and official statements ..

Narendra Modi:

Today, enemies of humanity who can't see India progress tried to strike at our strategic area, a prominent airbase at Pathankot. I appreciate our armed forces and thank them for foiling our enemy's attempt.

Pranab Mukherjee:

Strongly condemn the terrorist attack on Air Force Base in Pathankot in Punjab." In another tweet he added, "Heartfelt condolences to the grieving families of our brave soldiers who lost their lives in the attack. Compliments to our jawans for their valour and courage while fighting terrorists.

Rajnath Singh

Pakistan is our neighbouring country. We want good relations with not just Pakistan but with all our neighbours. We also want peace but if there is any terror attack on India, we will give a befitting reply.

Major Indian newspapers/editorials do NOT want to suspend the peace dialog as gut reaction..

Afghanistan (Ashraf Ghani) condemned the attack and expressed condolences for the deaths of security personnel.
China (Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying):

We condemn this attack...At this juncture, this attack might have been launched intentionally to disrupt this momentum [in Indo-Pak ties]. Many media reports have such doubts...

France –

France condemns the attack perpetrated against the Indian military base at Pathankot, which has resulted in numerous deaths amongst Indian security forces and dozens of wounded. We address our condolences to the families of the victims and to the Indian government. France stands alongside India in the struggle against terrorism.

Pakistan – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs)

Pakistan extends heartfelt condolences to the government and people of India and the bereaved families and wishes the wounded speedy and full recovery,

FO spokesman Qazi Khalilullah:

Building on the goodwill created during the recent high level contacts between the two countries, Pakistan remains committed to partner with India as well as other countries in the region to completely eradicate the menace of terrorism afflicting our region. We extend heartfelt condolences to the government and people of India and the bereaved families and wish the wounded speedy and full recovery

.
Special assistant to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, Irfan Siddiqui:

India should understand that Pakistan itself had been one of the greatest victims of terrorist attacks on its soil. He regretted that only after a few terrorist attacks India begins hurling baseless allegations.... India should create an environment of trust as unfounded allegations only hamper the process of dialogue.

Riaz Khokhar:

India was trying to tarnish Pakistan’s image and is using such attacks to derail talks.

Sharif:

promises prompt action against terrorists

Bad Sharif: (para-phrasing by AmberG

Aim of the attack is to derail the peace process varna hamen kaun poochega Hamari bhi to kuch ijjat honi chahiye..

United States SD's John Kirby:

US has strongly condemned the terrorist attack on the Indian Air Force base in Punjab's Pathankot.
...We extend our condolences to all the victims and their familiesThe United States is committed to our strong partnership with India to combat terrorism..

..The government of Pakistan has said publicly and privately that it's not going to discriminate among terrorist groups as part of its counter-terrorism operation

..So this is a shared challenge that we all face in the region and we in the United States want everybody to treat it as a shared challenge,
"
...We have been clear with the highest levels of the government of Pakistan that it must continue to target all militant groups { BTW JeM is EXPLICITLY mentioned in BO/Modi meet }

"

"France condemns attack on Indian military base; stands alongside India in fight against terrorism"

Japan: "We condemn the terrorist attack.Terrorism cannot be justified for any reason. Japan expresses solidarity with gov & people of India"

****

BTW: J-e-M is officially banned by Pak, 2002 and has been designated as a terrorist organization by at least Australia, Canada, the UAE, the UK, the US and the UN..(Can someone confirm, if that is also designated as an terrorist organization by India?)

[Sid]

-deleted-

[Anujan]

Did you read the article? They are saying our neighbours trained them in airbases. Which if true would indicate complicity at the highest level.

[disha]

After some thoughts and reading through all the pages and news etc:

1. The jeehadis could possibily be Baki Army SSG - not a garden variety jeehadi., but a well trained commando force.

2. This was a remarkable operation., in that the NSA was almost on top of the event if not ahead.

3. The baki SSG Jeehadi force ended up making contact with DSC near the canteen (or at the canteen) because other areas were well defended. In that sense, this jeehadi attack achieved nothing.

4. All lives are precious., the DSC lives were lost because they were surprised and they were unarmed. Losing the chief of the bomb disposal squad was a very unfortunate accident.

So to say that this was a "failure of India/NSA/Modi/etc" and "it took so many days" is just being crass. I remember Op Blue Thunder vividly and it was a classic psychological game where the adversary was mentally worn out. So prolonging the counter-operation is one of the best way to achieve our goal, particularly when the critical assets are ascertained to be protected.

Further, by prolonging the operation., more evidence can come into picture and more players if there are any can be established since the Jeehadi Baki SSG Kamandus can be made to make mistakes.

And BTW, protecting a 20 sq. km area is not a joke.

[sum]

TSP not really hiding their footprints even in Afghanistan:
www.deccanherald.com/content/521456/attack-consulate-avenge-afzal-gurus.html

The terror strike on consulate general of India at Mazar-e-Sharif in Afghanistan was aimed at avenging the execution of 2001 Indian Parliament attack conspirator Afzal Guru, the terrorists wrote on the wall of their last refuge just before they were gunned down by soldiers of the Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF).

The terrorists scribbled “Afzal Guru Ka Inteqam” (Revenge for Afzal Guru) in Urdu on the wall of a room in the unoccupied building they used as base to launch the attack on the adjacent Consulate General of India.

The ANSF soldiers noticed the words written, apparently with blood, on the walls of the rooms, while searching the half-constructed building after the 25-hour-long operation to neutralise the terrorists ended, according to reports New Delhi received from Afghan government. The wall of another room in the building had written on it “Ek Shaheed, Hajar Fidayeen” (one martyr, thousand suicide attackers).

Probes by National Directorate of Security of Afghan government confirmed that the terrorists had crossed over to Afghanistan from Pakistan.

[manjgu]

to all those batting for uber modern gizmos ( no doubt useful) , that is only half the story. once the gizmos have hopefully detected the intruders, who is going to fight them? 99% airmen / officers wont be able to shoot straight as they dont train or do shooting practice for them to take on well trained intruders? same issue cropped up in attack on PAF base, Some poor lowly airmen were being made the scapegoats and one of them said in court that they never had shooting practice, so how is he expected to tackle the intruders?

[sunilUpa]

NSG and JAK RiF were already on the base, no need for Air Force personnel to shoot out with the terrorists. In addition don't forget Garuds.

[fanne]

Tsp did not send their finest to just kill 6 people in pathankot. Look at 11/26 or other such events. The fact that they could only do this is a big victory for us. This is not to belittle the 7 supreme sacrifices that were made. I really pity the Rona dhona

[manjgu]

SunilUpa..this time we had prior intel.. I am talking of a surprise attack. the point is u cant expect airmen to be like army soldiers ( who have to continously hone their shooting skills, physical etc) . and uber gizmos to solve the basic problem.

[saip]

I was under the impression that the taxi was a regular drug runner and so the Pakistani handler could be confident of getting him to transport the pigs. But it appears he never had communication with Pakistan in the past. So I am puzzled how could this super duper spy agency ISI (who pakis say is the number one in the universe) could have expected an ordinary taxi guy to ferry the pigs to its target?
Once the taxi driver realized who they were, refused to obey and dashed against a tree and that was the reason he was killed? And the SP happened to be just there to provide the transport? So how could the ISI not arrange a proper transport for the pigs?

[Anujan]

After some thoughts and reading through all the pages and news etc:

1. The jeehadis could possibily be Baki Army SSG - not a garden variety jeehadi., but a well trained commando force.

2. This was a remarkable operation., in that the NSA was almost on top of the event if not ahead.

3. The baki SSG Jeehadi force ended up making contact with DSC near the canteen (or at the canteen) because other areas were well defended. In that sense, this jeehadi attack achieved nothing.

4. All lives are precious., the DSC lives were lost because they were surprised and they were unarmed. Losing the chief of the bomb disposal squad was a very unfortunate accident.

So to say that this was a "failure of India/NSA/Modi/etc" and "it took so many days" is just being crass. I remember Op Blue Thunder vividly and it was a classic psychological game where the adversary was mentally worn out. So prolonging the counter-operation is one of the best way to achieve our goal, particularly when the critical assets are ascertained to be protected.

Further, by prolonging the operation., more evidence can come into picture and more players if there are any can be established since the Jeehadi Baki SSG Kamandus can be made to make mistakes.

And BTW, protecting a 20 sq. km area is not a joke.

Dont get caught with SSG/Jihadi confusion.

Do listen to Arif Jamal's talk and interview at the Hudson Institute (Moderated by Good Haqqani).

Basically he outlines how LeT functions. They "train" 50-100 candidates per week for 21 days (I dont remember the exact figure). Arif Jamal apparently personally went and saw these camps. He says that most of them dont know the business end of a rifle from the other end. Most of them had joined for the free food/stipend/weekend adventure camp.

Of these a few are talented. They are taken for a separate 3 month indoctrination/more training. Of those the ones with real talent/ability are selected and trained for six months more in skills like shooting, recce, IEDs, infiltration and so on.

Essentially what the Pakis have built is a Jihad factory and in that Jihad factory, they have built a talent scouting/training facility. Parts of this info were presented in Kasab's trial as well (newspapers carried bits and pieces of it). If you process 5000/10000 abduls (assume they process 100-200 per week), atleast 1-2 dozen would be special forces caliber. These are the ones who are being sent to India. And that is why they are extremely well trained and it is extremely difficult to neutralize them.

Mango abduls commenting in newspapers/writing DDM articles assume that terrorist training is rounding up some jobless abdul in a villiage, giving him a soosai vest and training him to should AoA!! in half a day and sending him across. Actually the fellows go through the process that I said above, and are professionally trained. The recruitment process is probably better than even the TFTA recruitment. So the idea of "rag tag" jihadi is a myth. Pakis may be incapable of manufacturing a bicycle chain, but their jihad manufacturing factory is among the finest in the world.

Watch this youtube video in entirity
https://youtu.be/rmT1WCurvsI?t=1506
(starting at 25m upto 32m and again from 42m and 44m he talks about training)

[shiv]

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Pathank ... 461180.cms

Pathankot terror attack: Jihadis made dry runs at Pakistani air base, intelligence sources say

Looks like they made a dry run again in Pathankot, judging from the aviation assets they devastated

[shiv]

Essentially what the Pakis have built is a Jihad factory and in that Jihad factory, they have built a talent scouting/training facility. Parts of this info were presented in Kasab's trial as well (newspapers carried bits and pieces of it). If you process 5000/10000 abduls (assume they process 100-200 per week), atleast 1-2 dozen would be special forces caliber. These are the ones who are being sent to India. And that is why they are extremely well trained and it is extremely difficult to neutralize them.

Mango abduls commenting in newspapers/writing DDM articles assume that terrorist training is rounding up some jobless abdul in a villiage, giving him a soosai vest and training him to should AoA!! in half a day and sending him across. Actually the fellows go through the process that I said above, and are professionally trained. The recruitment process is probably better than even the TFTA recruitment. So the idea of "rag tag" jihadi is a myth. Pakis may be incapable of manufacturing a bicycle chain, but their jihad manufacturing factory is among the finest in the world.

Watch this youtube video in entirity
https://youtu.be/rmT1WCurvsI?t=1506
(starting at 25m upto 32m and again from 42m and 44m he talks about training)

+1

This should be pasted on the musharraf of every media editor so those who massage that will be able to see it and hopefully see what we are up against. It's not as if lay public are any better informed - but having imbecile media keeps lay public underinformed

[Singha]

^ and they have 200 million population base to choose from. like our IIT mills produce legions of SF caliber 'operators' to tackle PCM problems, they put their elite recruits to work on military training.

no other islamic nation other than indonesia has such a huge pool of potential talent.

[Screambowl]

SunilUpa..this time we had prior intel.. I am talking of a surprise attack. the point is u cant expect airmen to be like army soldiers ( who have to continously hone their shooting skills, physical etc) . and uber gizmos to solve the basic problem.

Even the enemy has got potential to select the targets, and do complete analysis of damage they can inflict before or during counter reaction.

Enemy would have already taken into account that if Indian intelligence agencies get the input of attack, then how to proceed. Or by already assuming that Indian clandestine agencies are aware of their mischievous plan.

[Kashi]

Watch this youtube video in entirity
https://youtu.be/rmT1WCurvsI?t=1506
(starting at 25m upto 32m and again from 42m and 44m he talks about training)

+1

This should be pasted on the musharraf of every media editor so those who massage that will be able to see it and hopefully see what we are up against. It's not as if lay public are any better informed - but having imbecile media keeps lay public underinformed

If I may suggest, could we add this video to the links in the first page of every STFUP dhaaga? It's as good an insight into TSP as any.

[Anujan]

This is from the book Fragile Frontiers: The Secret History of Mumbai Terror Attacks Sorry for the long sequence of inline images, but this myth of "rag tag jihadi" and "why is it taking up so much time" and "why was there intelligence failure" should be put to rest.

[Amber G.]

....
Do listen to Arif Jamal's talk and interview at the Hudson Institute (Moderated by Good Haqqani).

B
https://youtu.be/rmT1WCurvsI?t=1506
..

watched it. Thanks for the recent message too...

[chandrasekaran]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 461180.cms

<quote>
The specific details came amid speculation that Indian security forces may have captured alive at least one of the fidayeen raider or penetrated local collaborators of Jaish. However, there was no official confirmation
</quote>

Has anyone come across the bolded part in any other news item ?