Pathankot AirForce base under attack

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Picklu
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Picklu » 06 Jan 2016 21:22

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that these pigs are fully recruited and long time trained by pak deep state as part of regular PA level official activity only and are off-loaded from govt roaster only after they have finished training for further indoctrination.

Only that answers the financial viability part. Off course they are small in number and hence the scenario mentioned by Singha that "launching 10 such groups every 3 months to cause mayhem" is not happening.

3 week/3 month tanjim based training is all bakwas. If that was sufficient, it would have created the above mass attach scenario.

Not that those ill trained buggers are not coming; but they are getting turned to fertilizer with 5 minutes of reaching border. Only the SF grade is able to come in to some distance from the border and that is rare.

shaun
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shaun » 06 Jan 2016 21:24

"Mohan said they “routinely” went inside the air force station with their animals for grazing in the forest area and are well versed with the contours of the base. “They are checked at the entry, but a single I-card allows several of them inside,” he added."

Wow if this is true , speaks volume of the perimeter security of a premier air base and its called lethargic , the specific word i used before.

vivek.rao
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby vivek.rao » 06 Jan 2016 21:29

http://www.rediff.com/news/interview/wi ... 160105.htm
'With Pakistan, where is the question of trust?'

Were you expecting a terror attack after Prime Minister Modi's visit Lahore?

I suppose this fits into a pattern. This has been happening since (then prime minister Atal Bihari) Vajpayee went to Lahore in 1999.

Whenever you start the talks process or some atmospherics that comes ahead of a peace process, if you can call it that, there is always some kind of spectacular attack.

It happened in 1999; it happened in 2001, within a couple of months of Agra we had the attacks on the Srinagar assembly and then Parliament; it happened in 2006, the Mumbai train blasts, which we seem to have forgotten because ordinary people died; we seem to have remembered 2008 (the 26/11 terror attacks) because some rich people died.

A couple of days before Nawaz Sharif landed here (for Modi's swearing-in) you had an attack on the Indian consulate in Herat (Afghanistan) which we seem to have forgotten.

We had Ufa and then we had Gurdaspur; we had Lahore and then we have had Pathankot...

In that sense, there seems to be some kind of pattern when over time there seems to be some kind of movement (on the peace front).

Also, we had some studies that state that in the years between 2004 and 2008 when we did seem to have good relations with Pakistan we had 18 major terror attacks in India which had links with Pakistan.

Then post 2008 when we stopped talking to them, the number of attacks fell drastically.


I see a pattern here; I don't know how somebody else sees these attacks.

Is the Pakistani army playing mischief? Are political leaders in Pakistan, who don't want good relations with India, in cahoots with the army?

I will not distinguish between the two. I will call them the Pakistani State. We give them an alibi by saying, 'Oh, the Pakistani guys (political leaders) are the nice guys, but the army is evil.'

I don't think it behoves of us to give them an alibi. To my mind, I see them acting as good cops and bad cops.

Are you saying there are no Pakistani leaders who want to invest in a good relationship with India?

Number one, I am putting them both in the same category. I don't distinguish between the two.

When I say 'good cop, bad cop', I mean there are some guys who say all the good things and there are other guys who want to play hardball.

In that sense, there is a kind of perfect synergy between them.

Based on your understanding and insights into the India-Pakistan relationship, do you think any Indian government should trust the Pakistani leadership and carry forward the peace process just like Prime Minister Modi did in Lahore about a week ago?

In international relations, you don't trust anybody. Bottomline.

I wouldn't trust even my mother in international relations because what happens is when interests change, when situations change and then alliances and friendships change.

As long as interests converge, you do business with each other and when interests diverge, you do business with whoever your interests are served.

With a country like Pakistan, where is the question of trust? I would have to take a leap of faith to have trust on Pakistan. To be very honest. I would not trust Pakistan.

Just before Prime Minister Modi arrived in Lahore, he was in Afghanistan. Is there a message from the Pakistan army, which considers Afghanistan as its 'deep asset' to India to keep away from Afghanistan?

There are number of messages here, but I don't see how one country can tell another country to not have any relationship with a third country. It is like India telling Pakistan that if you have good relationship with Sri Lanka, we will bomb you.

The message to India is (with attacks like Pathankot) basically what the Pakistani army is trying to test is how serious are you when it concerns the peace process with that country.

This is a kind of Catch-22 situation. If you try to break off the peace process because of such an attack, everybody will accuse you of being churlish to react to what the non-State actors are doing.

While I don't buy into these fictions of non-State actors, there is this problem and you can't break off (from talks).

But if you continue engaging with them, we can actually end up encouraging the Pakistanis giving them a sense of impunity, who will then think that they can continue with their acts (of terror) even as you talk to them.

This does catch the Government of India in bit of a bind.

In what way will Prime Minister Modi react to such an audacious attack?

I have no way of knowing how he will react because he never ceases to surprise. I don't know what he is going to do.

Was the Indian security establishment caught napping?

I think there was some kind of apprehension that some kind of attacks will take place. But I don't think they had any solid information about such a kind of attack.

One could say they were caught napping, in the sense that, how could so many terrorists enter the airbase?

I think to the credit of our security forces, the way they reacted... perhaps they were lucky. At least, they reacted fairly fast and managed to take out four or five terrorists...

But to an extent that these terrorists could enter, you could call it a security failure if you want to be very uncharitable, but to the extent that they managed to react fairly quickly and snuff out some of these terrorists is to their credit.

What should be India's response to Pakistan after the Pathankot terror attack?

I am too small a person to comment on that. It is not my business to advise the government... the government is very wise.

How do you react to such terror attacks?

My take is that don't tread the beaten path. We have done that since the last 70 years. If it hadn't worked out in this time, I don't see how it will work going ahead.

The old plot needs to change.

Now that includes a whole lot of other things that need to be done. But I don't know if that fits into the political or strategic calculations which governments have. Unless that parading changes, I don't know how you are going to get over this.

What exactly are you suggesting?

I am saying that you can't tread the beaten path any longer. It is not working. So you really need to rethink, going back to the drawing board... but I don't think anybody is interested in doing that.

Was Prime Minister Modi's visit to Lahore to meet Nawaz Sharif along the beaten track?

That was certainly not along the beaten track, but what it has led up to is along the beaten track.

I have no problems with prime ministers interacting with each other, that is not a bad thing.

My problem is that if we think engaging with the Pakistanis is going to solve our security problems, then I am afraid that is not going to happen.

Is Pakistan trying to open another frontier in Punjab once again given the Gurdaspur and Pathankot terror attacks?

I think that is very clear. Not just Punjab... they will open a frontier wherever they can.

They have been trying to revive militancy in Punjab for a number of years and they have started getting some traction over a couple of years now.

This game is not played only by using terrorist attacks.

They have been trying to revive militancy in Punjab for almost 8, 10 years now. There are telltale signs of them (the Pakistani establishment) making inroads (in Punjab).

But I think we would be stupid to blame it all only on the Pakistanis. Our known acts of commission and omission are also responsible for that.

What are these acts?

Basically, the way politics in Punjab is being handled. The kind of governance or the lack of it of the (Chief Minister Parkash Singh) Badal regime; the fact that they have bloody reduced it to a narco state also adds to the problems in the state.

Is this narco money being used to fund terrorists?

Absolutely.

A whole generation of young people are being made into junkies and nobody seems to be bothered about this
.

member_20292
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_20292 » 06 Jan 2016 21:31

1. Economic sanctions MUST be applied on defence contractors that do business with Pakistan.
2. Any company that chooses to do business in Pakistan, cannot do business in India. For eg. if Suzuki chooses to sell in Pakistan, then it cannot operate in India, and so on. Any company selling to Pakistani textile manufacturers (Juki, Brother etc.) cannot sell to Indian textile companies
3. Balochistan gun running has to increase. Afghanistan arms and ammo supplies have to increase.
4. Bad Taliban help has to increase, in concert with the Afghan spy agency.
5. "Affecting" attempts on the top ranks in the Pakistani army have to increase.
6. No need to throw thousand pounders and Brahmos salvos. Can we "affect" a TSPA general or two? But there is a definite need to address the TSPA Generals, serving and retired is there. Do not let them get away with their crimes. Israel recently dealt with a Hizbollah guy who committed an atrocity in 1978.

shiv
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2016 21:32

Pathankot operations well coordinated: IAF

The Indian Air Force today asserted that the counter security operations conducted at the Pathankot air base during the terror strike was a well coordinated effort and contrary to media reports no aircraft was flown out of the base

Giving details, it said that on receipt of intelligence inputs of a likely attempt by terrorists to infiltrate into military installations in Pathankot area, Air Force Station Pathankot was put on heightened alert status.

Air warriors were issued arms and ammunition to protect vital assets. Air Force Garud Special Forces were reinforced from other Air Force Stations and were deployed at strategic locations around the airfield, the IAF said in a statement.

Aerial surveillance was mounted using night vision and thermal imaging devices on board Remotely Piloted Aircraft, C-130J Special Operations aircraft and helicopters, it said.

"First contact with the terrorists was made through a remotely piloted aircraft. On detection, the terrorists were immediately engaged by the Garuds. One Garud, Corporal Gursewak Singh, was killed in the initial engagement," the IAF said.

Terrorists opened fire on unarmed Defence Security Corps (DSC) personnel in the DSC Mess, where one of the DSC Jawans grappled with a terrorist and shot him dead.

However, the DSC Jawan was killed by the other terrorists present there, it said.

"Swift response by the Station resulted in pinning down of the terrorists in a limited area, preventing their movement towards the sensitive Technical zone where bulk petroleum and weapon storage areas were located and also where aircraft were parked.

"A well coordinated effort by all security agencies including the Army, NSG, local police and Indian Air Force (IAF) succeeded in neutralising the terrorists," the IAF said.

The statement added that the airbase remained operational throughout and flights operated to and from the airfield during the period of engagement with the terrorists.

IAF's assertion comes at a time when experts have slammed the long time taken to conclude the operation against six Pakistani terrorists who had stormed the forward base on Saturday.

They have also questioned the rationale behind NSG leading the operation at a military base rather than special forces of the Army.

shaun
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shaun » 06 Jan 2016 21:50

"First contact with the terrorists was made through a remotely piloted aircraft. On detection, the terrorists were immediately engaged by the Garuds. One Garud, Corporal Gursewak Singh, was killed in the initial engagement," the IAF said.

Terrorists opened fire on unarmed Defence Security Corps (DSC) personnel in the DSC Mess, where one of the DSC Jawans grappled with a terrorist and shot him dead.

However, the DSC Jawan was killed by the other terrorists present there, it said."

GARUDs being a new SF , it will be interesting to know whether they succeeded in neutralizing one or more pigs .Confirmed , One pig was shot by DSC , during combing operation 2 more pigs neutralized by NSG , that keep the rest 3 piglets .

Aditya_V
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya_V » 06 Jan 2016 21:54

If he had armed drones those pigs could have been shavers without our blood being spilled

Singha
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Singha » 06 Jan 2016 21:55

in most airports in india, some kind of casual labour is always seen...like grass cutters from nearby areas tasked to keep grass mowed near runways and aprons, or such vegetation being cut for sale on some contract. these kind of people are ever present threats for spying purposes and a bit of sabotage on the side.

member_23694
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_23694 » 06 Jan 2016 22:10

shiv wrote:Pathankot operations well coordinated: IAF


After one press conference to media, Forces should simply ignore the media's nuisance interpretation and move forward. If any correction needed then take it up but no need to daily try convince the media that they did their job fine since certain section of MSM's agenda for this issue is anything but the terror attack.
After all they are in overdrive with articles like "Why Some Allege Pathankot 'Worst-Planned Op In 3 Decades'" :evil:

Sridhar K
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Sridhar K » 06 Jan 2016 22:16

With the absence of scoops and inside info this time, traitor media seems to throwing FUD forcing the Govt to disclose more details of the op so that their sponsors across the border can get some insights.The bait should be ignored

Compare and contrast with 26/11 where media was feeding free live real time Intel to handlers.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Aditya G » 06 Jan 2016 22:33

Know your terrorist:

Image

ABP Live analysis:

Image

shaun
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shaun » 06 Jan 2016 23:09

The above map is no where accurate .

from Indiatoday
The terrorists, who attacked the Pathankot IAF base, were specially trained for over a month in either the Chaklala or Lyallpur airbase in Pakistan, said a senior government official in an exclusive interview to India Today TV.
The official said the terrorists were not trained pilots :shock: though they knew the basic structure of the airbase and how to harm aircraft and other assets including ammunition and petrol dumps. Though the attack took the establishment by surprise, expensive and strategic assets like aircraft and missiles were taken away 2 days before the strike.
Reflecting on the time taken to complete the operation, the official said the forces were keen on capturing the terrorists alive by draining the terrorists of their food and ammunition supplies as well as tire them psychologically.
The official said foreign secretary-level talks with Pakistan due in mid-January may be postponed as a result of the Pathankot misadventure. For the talks to continue, Pakistan must arrest the perpetrators, seize their properties and file cases against them. The official said one terrorist handler was in touch from Sialkot, others from Shakargarh and Bahawalpur were in touch with terrorists. The terrorists had entered Punjab from Shakarghad border, the official said.
Operation to flush terrorists
The brief was to minimise casualties, contain and corner the terrorists in areas which didn't have valuable assets. The forces were told to sanitise the area and move forward, the official said. If the terrorists were near assets, the forces would not have cared about casualties.
Noting the explosions that took place after the terrorists were killed, the official said even after the terrorists were dead they had set up 29 explosive devices within the airbase. The official did admit the mopping up took time since sanitising the residential area was very sensitive.
The official said the operation began at dawn on January 2 and all terrorists were killed by 1.30pm on January 3.
The National Security Guard's Major General Dushyant Singh commanded the operations. All troops were from 320 contingent of the NSG and were better trained and equipped to handle explosives and suicide bombers. There was complete coordination between airforce, army, NSG and Punjab Police, said the senior official.
Though the terrorists were better trained than the lot who had staged the 26/11 attacks, they were deadly given that they were carrying aluminium powder which spreads fire and can't be doused even with fire extinguishers. :!:
Of the six terrorists, two were rested from the earlier strike to give the impression that only four had sneaked in. They struck later. They wanted to attack assets and tried to take advantage in early 3rd January morning but were cornered in a building and blown away
Intelligence failure
Contrary to media speculation, the official said there has been no specific input on the Pathankot attack though some army establishments were on alert. But there was no intelligence failure, the official said.
Casualties
Only the Garud commando, Gursewsk Singh, died in combat with terrorists. The 5 Defence Security Corp personnel were unarmed inside the mess and were ambushed due to first strike advantage the terrorists had. The official said Lt Col Niranjan died of accidental circumstances while disposing explosive.
The NSG response was swift with the team reaching Pathankot within hours. Nine columns of army were put into action. The official added that the theory of Salwinder Singh, the Gurdaspur Superintendent of Police, that he was going to a mazar with his jeweller friend was suspicious. Punjab Police did not act on his tip-off promptly due to his behaviour in the past since Salwinder Singh had several molestation cases
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/pathankot-terrorists-trained-in-pak-at-chaklala-or-lyallpur-airbase-top-security-officer/1/564087.html

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Sid » 06 Jan 2016 23:13

vivek.rao wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/interview/with-pakistan-where-is-the-question-of-trust/20160105.htm
'With Pakistan, where is the question of trust?'

Were you expecting a terror attack after Prime Minister Modi's visit Lahore?.......................



Well... this bloody pattern is known to everyone and its quite obvious.

It is to affirm to other party that they are negotiating from a strong position. This gives them leverage during deal making process. You can also notice unusual IRBM/SRBM tests which coincide with official visits from friendly countries like China/etc. Its mostly psyops, but a very dangerous poker game.

Only thing different this time is that people have become more sensitive to attacks. During late 90s there were almost non-stop attacks and people got numb. But after a long ceasefire duration and lull in operations, and also due to proliferation of social media, people are noticing things.

Hence old tactics are biting porkies big time. What used to be SOP, is now a deal breaker.

ramana
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 06 Jan 2016 23:14

Anujan, I am closing this thread as the Pathankot attack is over. Please open a thread for After Action analysis of Pathankot attack.

Thanks a lot.

ramana


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