Pathankot AirForce base under attack

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby eklavya » 03 Jan 2016 07:28

shiv wrote:Last night I went to bed with a heavy heart, hoping that I would wake up to news that 3 Pakistani terrorist camps had been hit by a combination of aerial attacks, Brahmos and spl forces.

The thought comforted me enough to allow me to sleep. Back to reality in the morning

I have not figured out why something like this is not done. Remember the boast regarding Pakistan after the Myanmar spl forces action?


There should never be any boasting. Inevitably inches turn into mm and then H&D gets crushed.

Part of the reason we don't react in the way you have outlined above is that our politicians and bureaucrats are not versed in the art of proactively using force as an instrument of state policy. They do so when compelled by circumstance. Indira Gandhi was an exception.

Apart from that, PM mentioned progress yesterday. We live next to a typhoid infested slum full of mad men. Occasionally they throw their sh!t at us, and some even hits us. Now, we want to be thought of as a safe and decent place. Maybe we are not prepared for the consequences of getting into a sh!t throwing fight with our mad diseased neighbour.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby chetak » 03 Jan 2016 07:45

Raja Bose wrote:The terrorists did not get beyond the outer perimeter. That admin building might have been anything from an outhouse to a langar.



It's normally where the management sits.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_28985 » 03 Jan 2016 07:49

My heart goes out to security personnel who made supreme sacrifice to the nation.

I wonder if we had prior knowledge if we could have captured few of them alive?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby RoyG » 03 Jan 2016 08:03

10 terrorists may have infiltrated

Local leader’s role suspected

Jupinderjit Singh

Chandigarh, January 2

Security forces and Intelligence agencies are strongly suspecting involvement of a local political leader for helping the group of terrorists who attacked the Pathankot Air Force station.
It is suspected that about 10 terrorists had managed to infiltrate on the intervening night of December 31-January 1 from across the border, but the exact entry point is yet to be ascertained.
The security establishment is suspecting the joint involvement of Pakistan-based terror outfit Jaish-e-Mohammad and Babbar Khalsa in the attack, with the active support of local handlers.
Though five terrorists have been killed so far, sources said they had sound information that about 10 terrorists had managed to sneak into India. This is corroborated by reports that some handlers arranged a taxi for them.
They said RAW and IB were questioning Punjab Police SP Salwinder Singh, who was “unusually” let off by the terrorists. “Agencies are zeroing on the local handlers,” said an official.
He said the hand of Jaish- e-Mohammad was suspected as they had an expertise in targeting defence bases.
Where were five who attacked for 24 hours?
If the route taken and exact motive of the three terrorists involved in the July 27 attack at Dinanagar are still unclear, Saturday’s attack raises another key question: where were the terrorists between 3 am on January 1 when a Punjab SP claims to have seen them and 3:30 am on January 2 when they attacked the Air Force station? And why and how did they go untraced?
Although the defence spokespersons claimed having intelligence alert about the attack and 140 NSG commandos were in Pathankot by January 1 morning, besides Punjab Police officials led by ADGP (Law and Order) HS Dhillon, yet the terrorists remained untraced and managed to attack the Air Force station.
Sources said initially the police and other forces were sceptical of the claims of SP Salwinder Singh that he and two others were kidnapped by terrorists. ADGP Dhillon was deputed to question him and prepare for any eventuality.
Sources said the terrorists had carefully chosen the Air Force station as it is considered a soft target compared to attacking a military installation. The station, it is learnt, has several vulnerable points in its fenced and walled area.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 78373.html


Why would they jack a SP car and cast suspicion on a supposed asset? Could it be that some of the terrorists are Sikhs?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby devesh » 03 Jan 2016 08:09

Firing again at Pathankot.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby habal » 03 Jan 2016 08:10

Spinster wrote:We need to take into account cost of international travel advisory etc etc


USA will not help Russia by issuing travel advisory against India, because such advisories and nautankis will push India further into Russian axis. It may well be the bellweather which will prompt other allies of USA to jump ship.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 08:24

eklavya wrote:There should never be any boasting. Inevitably inches turn into mm and then H&D gets crushed.

Part of the reason we don't react in the way you have outlined above is that our politicians and bureaucrats are not versed in the art of proactively using force as an instrument of state policy. They do so when compelled by circumstance. Indira Gandhi was an exception.

Apart from that, PM mentioned progress yesterday. We live next to a typhoid infested slum full of mad men. Occasionally they throw their sh!t at us, and some even hits us. Now, we want to be thought of as a safe and decent place. Maybe we are not prepared for the consequences of getting into a sh!t throwing fight with our mad diseased neighbour.

Let me simply post something that comes to my mind. It is a formula for escalation - call it a slippery slope if you like

Suppose GoI were to make a secret plan to simply hit 3 terrorist camps within 12 hours of a terrorist attack - say with spl forces/MBRL/air, what would Pakistan do?

They would certainly protest and there would be some retaliation after hours or days. Let me assume that India would have plans to hit them back in exchange.

That means that within a few days of a terror attack Pakistan would face the choice of getting into a hot war with India or.... When have we ever given them that choice?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby partha » 03 Jan 2016 08:27

^
Exactly. It's not like Pakis will drop a nuke bomb if India hits some terror camps.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Paul » 03 Jan 2016 08:31

The Paki army/Rangers bunkers in proximity to Pathankot should be blown up with Milan ATGMs.

Surely this will count as a tactical but very effective response to the incursion.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2016 08:32

Shiv, more detials here

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... -a-martyr/


Intelligence officials attribute the Pathankot airbase attack to the Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Muhammad on the basis of intercepted phone calls made late Friday by a member of the assault team.

Home Ministry officials said a full-scale alert was ordered late Friday evening after information emerged that five armed men had hijacked a vehicle used by a Punjab Police officer. National Security Advisor Ajit Doval ordered an élite unit of the National Security Guard to be moved to Pathankot, in anticipation of a possible attack on the IAF base.



Following the alert, the Intelligence Bureau intercepted multiple phone calls made by a member of the Jaish unit in Pakistan. The phone calls, government sources said, were made between 12.30 am Saturday morning and 3.30 am, likely just minutes before the attack.

In one of the phone calls, a Home Ministry official familiar with tape-recordings made by the Intelligence Bureau, said a man with a southern Punjab accent repeatedly tells his mother that he is heading towards martyrdom. The mother can be heard crying in the background, at one point gathering herself to ask her son if he has eaten. :lol:

The other calls, sources said, were made to several phone numbers in Pakistan, some of which, intelligence officials, said are known to be linked to senior Jaish figures.

“I’m speculating here,” said an intelligence official who listened to the intercepted calls Friday night, “but the men seemed to be hysterical, and not very well-trained”.


The conversations, he said, reminded him of Naved Yakub, a Lashkar-e-Taiba jihadist held in Udhampur last year, who dropped out of school to escape a life of poverty by joining the jihadist group.

{Official should come and reveal his name. Nov hide under official cover!}

Based on the phone calls, investigators believe the men crossed one of the streams running across the India-Pakistan border in Gurdaspur — the same route used by a group of Lashkar terrorists who attacked a police station in Gurdaspur last year, killing nine.

[i]{Again Punjab Police lax in closing smuggler routes even after Gurdaspur attack!}[i]

Punjab Police investigators believe the four terrorists :?: first hijacked an Innova van, after crossing the border early Friday morning. The car stalled on the Pathankot-Jammu highway with a flat tyre, after which the terrorists are thought to have executed its driver, Ikagar Singh.


The terrorists then hijacked a vehicle used by Superintendent of Police Salwinder Singh, who was travelling home from a religious leader’s Dera, along with his friend Rajesh Verma, a jeweller, and Verma’s cook Madan Gopal.

From testimony given by Verma to the Punjab Police, the men were carrying a large bag, possibly filled with food, assault rifles, a global positioning set and a cellphone.

The group, intelligence officials said, made multiple calls using a cellphone taken from their captives, as well as from a second cellphone that Verma said they were carrying.

The precise role of the NSG in the defence of the airbase, though, remained unclear, and there was no official account of how the terrorists succeeded in penetrating its 10-foot outer perimeter walls, topped with razor-sharp cobra wire, and this in spite of specialist warnings.

Early investigations suggest that the men walked along the National Highway to the Air Force base undetected, from the location where they abandoned their car.



So this was Police car that also had flat.

Has good timeline:

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... st-killed/

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2016 08:33

SSridhar wrote:ThePathankot AFB attack is an out-and-out PA/ISI operation using its other trusted terror group, JeM (if reports are correct regarding JeM's involvement). The PA is once again testing the Indian resolve of 'uninterrupted & uninterruptible' dialogue. Though Ms. Swaraj said that the peace talks can and will be interrupted, Pakistan has an assumption that at the highest level it has been agreed to carry on talks in spite of terrorism.

This gives Pakistan the advantage because it *IS* the country that carries out terror attacks, not India, and therefore it believes that it can continue to do so as talks progress and use it as a pressure tactic to gain concessions. We do not know whether it has been conveyed so or it is a usual Pakistani assumption or bluster etc. I hope that India has not given any such assurance given Modi/Doval's approach and Ms. Swaraj's assurance in the Parliament.

On the ToI blog which calls for conveying to Pakistan, India's freedom to exercise covert operations, there is no need to do so. India has to do *whatever it has to do*. For how long are we going to treat Pakistan with a kid glove hoping for a better behaviour? It simply does not wish to become a normal country. Nawaz Sharif's purported willingness to develop better relations with India is in itself a fraud and is being used as a mask by the PA/ISI. The usual good cop/bad cop technique.

We must suspend talks citing terror. In the meanwhile, we plan a covert or overt attack. When we have achieved the desired result, we once again offer to resume the talks with more conditions imposed on Pakistan now for the misbehaviour. We simply should not care for pressure from any other country. We must point out to them the actions that these countries have themselves taken against terror (the US, China, France, UK etc).

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby chetak » 03 Jan 2016 08:37

shiv wrote:
Pranay wrote:Cannot comprehend the high casualties on the Indian side if the Indian side was forewarned and essentially had setup an ambush and how come they were able to ingress 45 meters into the base??

You need to understand that 16 hours before the attack a Superintendent of Police was kidnapped and his phone taken, and when he reported this any normal security conscious police officer would naturally ignore the complaint and point out that the SP reporting his own abduction had a "colourful past" and was probably lying and his background was more illustrative of reality than the abduction.

You must also understand that when a driver was killed and his car hijacked after the above abduction of the police officer, no competent police official would make a connection between the two events. Obviously they are separate events.

The rabble rousing Punjab public gave a lot of trouble to the police by insisting that the killing of a car driver was a terror event. After all the police were busy investigating the colourful background of the recently abducted police officer.

16 hours is such a short time and there was no hurry or panic. After all terrorists do not come in tanks or helos. They have to walk. How far could they go? If there was any error it was made by the terrorists themselves who did not announce exactly which part of Punjab they were going to attack.



valuable time was lost in this needless "SP being abducted and story not believed" scenario. It is being reported that the SP went to some village to see some "baba". and was waylaid during his return trip.

The fact of the matter is, WTF was the SP doing out at night in some remote village, being the sole occupant cum driver of the official SUV which looked like a XUV 500 from the pictures on teevee. It was certainly not an official trip and from the dubious response he generated, it looks like this particular SP was in the habit of getting into such escapades and misusing the official vehicle.

A SP has a dedicated driver + vehicle at his beck and call 24x7, 365 days a year and usually a couple more for madam ji and the kids. No effing reason for him to drive himself unless he was engaged in some very dubious activity. The tourists seem to have killed the taxi driver but spared the SP, very strange onlee.

The police should have erred on the side of caution and alerted the security forces instead of delaying the reporting. The errant SP could have always been sorted out later, abundant caution should have been the primary and driving concern, especially when a terror alert was out.

why were the fences not lit on both sides and/or electrified?? For a military base on high alert, it looks foolish that some miscreants cut the barbed wire after scaling the wall and entered the administrative building or as some other reports would have us believe, crept in through a remote nallah and entered the base.

the tourists certainly had very good intel and if they had it, it seems a damn shame that the security folks did not identify the same points of ingress as threats and therefore should have covered the same more diligently. It speaks volumes of intimate inside knowledge and help from folks who had surveyed the inside of the perimeter to identify weak points or very high resolution photos from maybe US/chinee MIL satellites. The ISI honey trapped network may be a lot bigger than originally thought.

In either case it speaks poorly of the security and risk analysis procedures and unguarded entry points, even during a state of heightened alert. It may be worthwhile to do an unannounced security audit of all MIL bases/installations on a random basis using multiple teams and plug gaps at the earliest.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 08:39

ramana wrote:Shiv, We need to look at the SP story in depth. And why was Punjab Police so lax in not going in alert even after Gurdaspur attack. The IGP needs to look into the matter.

Here is where the 1% doctrine would be useful.

Also GPS trackers on Police vehicles in J&K and Punjab to show where they are.

Why was the police SP let go? Initially I thought he was in civilian vehicle turns out its a Police vehicle with blue beacon.

Did he recognize the attackers from previous encounters?

Ramana this police story smacks of "business as usual" in police stations across India. There is a reluctance to accept an FIR - whether it is assault, rape or terror. It is reported regularly in the media and we are regaled with stories of how a rape complainant is harassed rethr than a complain accepted. If I must state reasons - police remains a state subject and Indian politicians control their police and keep sycophants in prominent positions.

Did you read that little news item about the nullah from which the Pathankot terrorists presumably came. Some police officer said (and he seems to have said it in all seriousness) " That is the same nullah used by the Gurdaspur terrorists. It is frequently used by smugglers"

Well blow me down. Here is an infiltration route well known to the police through which terrorists came in 5 months ago. And now one man casually says "Oh yeah. We know the place. We are so clever. Our smugglers use it all the time"

Is it difficult to believe that the police don't have a hand in smuggling?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2016 08:40

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_S ... rps_(India)


The Defence Security Corps (DSC), previously known as Defence Department Constabulary Centre, was founded on 25 April 1947 at Mathura in Uttar Pradesh state in north India. The Defence Security Corps, with 31,000 personnel, provides security at Defence Ministry sites. The role of Defence Security Corps is to ensure the protection and security of designated Defence Installations against sabotage and pilferage. The Central Industrial Security Force (CISF) and the Defence Security Corps (DSC) provide security at Indian Ordnance Factories, India's nuclear laboratories and Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) establishments, respectively. The CISF is purely a civilian Central government security force and though the DSC is a force under the Ministry of Defence and it comprises mainlysuperannuated soldiers who are re-employed for a few years.[1]

On 3 May 1947, the centre moved to Delhi. The DSC was formed in the form of a semi-police force with police titles and badges of ranks. In 1948, these were replaced with military titles and badges of ranks.

In August 1958, the Corps was re-organised and brought under the control of Indian Army Headquarters. The DSC and Records moved from Delhi to Chakrata in Uttar Pradesh (Presently in Uttarakhand) in April 1959 and then to Kannur on 21 November 1961.

Today, the DSC Centre and DSC Records is located in Kannur town, on the road to Payyambalam Beach. The area is a part of the Cannanore Cantonment and is well-maintained by the Cantonment Board. The DSC centre at Kannur is the mother depot to all platoons in the country.

The centre imparts training to ex-service personnel of the Indian Army, Navy, Air Force and Territorial Army and recruits them to various agencies under the Army, Navy, Air Force and Territorial Army and to the Directorate General of Ordnance Factories and Directorate General of Research and Development.



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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Guddu » 03 Jan 2016 08:41

I am wondering if the PM's office or Ajit Doval has an email address that could be lit up. Public support can affect national policy.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 08:44

chetak wrote:
In either case it speaks poorly of the security and risk analysis procedures and unguarded entry points, even during a state of heightened alert.

In fact I think digital linking of all police stations with security apparatus is essential and any incident of abduction, shooting should instantly update a central database from where it is monitored.

But I would particularly like to know details of where the abducted SP went and to who he gave his complaint and who ignored it.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2016 08:45

twitter has it.

Regardless chetak need to roll some heads. 5 DSC and 1 Garud killed.
not to mention 1 taxi driver hailed from Pakistan killed.

5 man terrorist squad missing for 24 hours due to Punjab Police not believing an SP.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Paul » 03 Jan 2016 08:47

If the attack is masterminded from GHQ by half trained impoverished mujahids. It provides the following possibilities to me:

1. It was hastily planned in response to Modi's visit to Lahore which I think was impromptu. There is no way Pakis would not have leaked this to Barkha for her to project it as a scoop.

2. More importantly, the Hinds gifted to ANA were based out of Pathankot, it is not a coincidence that this base was attacked by Pakis.

This attack is a message sent by Bad Sharif to India. If more arms are provided to ANA, then India has pay for it in lives.

A local response like counter fire on Paki OPs on the IB is not enough. Doval needs to find a way to send a effective message to Sharif that there are costs if this happens again....follow this by transferring 105 mm LFGs to Afghan national Army
Last edited by Paul on 03 Jan 2016 08:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2016 08:49

Shiv, What I was told is Nat grid has uplink of all police stations to Delhi but no sidelinks or down links from Delhi. one way vacuum cleaner.
Screwed up implementation by It/vty babus. A famous B'lore ItVty professional

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Baikul » 03 Jan 2016 08:50

shiv wrote:Pathankot: Police reacted late, allowed terrorists a 14-hour headstart
..........
The Punjab government has said that the men who killed taxi driver Ikagar Singh, and later waylaid superintendent of police Salwinder Singh, commandeering his SUV and throwing him and his two companions out, were the same as the ones who attacked the airbase.
..............

Salwinder, the SP (Headquarters) in Gurdaspur who had just been transferred to the 75th battalion of the Punjab Armed Police, was abducted around midnight on December 31, sources in the Punjab Police said. He and his two companions were beaten and tied to trees. They managed to free themselves, and informed the Pathankot police around 3 am on Friday. The police, however, took a long time reacting, possibly because they were not immediately convinced of Salwinder’s story about being waylaid by men in Army fatigues.[/color]

........


How very fortunate that these men were only beaten and tied to trees after which they very fortunately managed to escape.

Others people kidnapped by the terrorists were killed out of hand, but providence was shining on these guys.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 08:53

ramana wrote:Shiv, What I was told is Nat grid has uplink of all police stations to Delhi but no sidelinks or down links from Delhi. one way vacuum cleaner.
Screwed up implementation by It/vty babus. A famous B'lore ItVty professional

One more weak spot may be that the complaint has to be registered and if the man at the desk laughs it off - then it does not get registered.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Paul » 03 Jan 2016 08:57

Punjab Police needs to hunker down to get into the same mode as in the 90s to face the threat coming down from Jammu.

It will take a few more attacks for it to happen

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2016 09:03

http://punjabpolice.gov.in/

PP has failed India already 2 times: Gurdaspur and now Pathankot

Need to have an inquiry.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ravip » 03 Jan 2016 09:03

Op is not yet over fresh firing and blast heard at Base.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/fre ... um=twitter

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Prem Kumar » 03 Jan 2016 09:03

Shiv's point is a great counter to all those who say that "Modi is not stupid. He must have already anticipated a Paki attack when he went to Lahore"......... well, if so, he must have already a plan to counter-strike. Let's see that play out.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby habal » 03 Jan 2016 09:04

few points in mind:

1. SP was complicit, no doubt, he was left because he may have been main man of some local level political leader who is complicit in drugs smuggling across border. If SP is killed, then the political leader would have squealed. SP is neck deep in some mischief and thus the was shunted to PAP, the Armed Battalions is the place where senior officers with corruption and disciplinary charges are posted as cooling pads.

2. What was SP doing at 3 AM visiting religious guru ? Which religious guru stays awake at 3 AM. The SP also did away with his official driver and security relying on his friend and his friend's chela. SP was most likely summoned by local political dude to help out a few mules who were stuck on the highway with flat tyre.

3. A few days before there was a bomb blast at Mardan in a NADRA office which killed around 30 people. Pakis can act all innocent and claim that 'taliban' is trying to wreck peace between India-Pak and Modi is falling into reactionary trap.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Prem Kumar » 03 Jan 2016 09:09

Ramana: can't help but think that there has been a gradual weakening of the spine in Punjab. The Khalistani sentiment is kept alive in Massa & Canada. AAP is making inroads. Heroin addiction at an all time high. ISI might be stoking the embers to ensure that it doesn't die. Got to give it to the West/ISI. They never concede a battle - ever. Like with Prabhakaran & last minute mercy-plan. And subsequent human rights tamasha against SL Govt.

India is a nanna-munna player in this game. This game is a 1000 year war to the death. There is no off-season.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 03 Jan 2016 09:10

the baba's name is in the other thread. Maybe someone can dig his connections

there is never an off season since Mir Qasim. Only fools think there is respite.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby parshuram » 03 Jan 2016 09:12

10 Jawans Martyered including two Garuds RIP..:-( . Highly trained terrorists or SSG camoflauged under jehadi cover

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Prem Kumar » 03 Jan 2016 09:13

Whoa - where did you get 10 from??

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ravip » 03 Jan 2016 09:15

Twitter is abuzz that one more jawan is crtically injured today morning, while defusing bomb.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby habal » 03 Jan 2016 09:18

first of all it is wrong to yearn for off season. It just means we are not willing to avenge those who have fallen. And how many have in Mumbai. so many blasts which we have lost number of.
It means we are content to relax in soft life and keep deferring, postponing what we have to do.
If God has given us a Pakistan to make an example of, then inshallah let us proceed to make mincemeat out of it.
This should be the spirit.

parshuram wrote:10 Jawans Martyered including two Garuds RIP..:-( . Highly trained terrorists or SSG camoflauged under jehadi cover


they came in via a nallah that cuts across the perimeter. Either highly trained special forces types who are well versed in use of mortar are mixed with jehadis or they have very detailed maps of the base which can come only from official sources.
Last edited by habal on 03 Jan 2016 09:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_23370 » 03 Jan 2016 09:21

No country survives by defense you need offense overt and covert. The LOC action was overt, now its time for covert.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby johneeG » 03 Jan 2016 09:28

shiv wrote:
eklavya wrote:There should never be any boasting. Inevitably inches turn into mm and then H&D gets crushed.

Part of the reason we don't react in the way you have outlined above is that our politicians and bureaucrats are not versed in the art of proactively using force as an instrument of state policy. They do so when compelled by circumstance. Indira Gandhi was an exception.

Apart from that, PM mentioned progress yesterday. We live next to a typhoid infested slum full of mad men. Occasionally they throw their sh!t at us, and some even hits us. Now, we want to be thought of as a safe and decent place. Maybe we are not prepared for the consequences of getting into a sh!t throwing fight with our mad diseased neighbour.

Let me simply post something that comes to my mind. It is a formula for escalation - call it a slippery slope if you like

Suppose GoI were to make a secret plan to simply hit 3 terrorist camps within 12 hours of a terrorist attack - say with spl forces/MBRL/air, what would Pakistan do?

They would certainly protest and there would be some retaliation after hours or days. Let me assume that India would have plans to hit them back in exchange.

That means that within a few days of a terror attack Pakistan would face the choice of getting into a hot war with India or.... When have we ever given them that choice?


The points that Dilli has to face when they have to escalate is:
- Does India want a war right now? -> social, political ramifications.
- Is India prepared for a war right now? -> Defence and economic aspects.
- Will the great powers of the world approve a war right now? -> Geo-politics.

Prem
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Prem » 03 Jan 2016 09:32

ashbhee wrote:My heart goes out to security personnel who made supreme sacrifice to the nation.

I wonder if we had prior knowledge if we could have captured few of them alive?

Alok Bhatt ‏@alok_bhatt 5m5 minutes ago
Another unsung hero of #Pathankot was Ikagar Singh-Innova driver- who, when asked by terrorists to drive 2wards AFS, drove them to border

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ravip » 03 Jan 2016 09:40

It seems the NSG being at base before the attack is complete hog wash. Here is ANI picture showing NSG moving into base on 2nd Jan morning, when most of the Op was over.
https://twitter.com/ANI_news/status/683500392693432321/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

shiv
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby shiv » 03 Jan 2016 09:44

johneeG wrote:
The points that Dilli has to face when they have to escalate is:
- Does India want a war right now? -> social, political ramifications.
- Is India prepared for a war right now? -> Defence and economic aspects.
- Will the great powers of the world approve a war right now? -> Geo-politics.

Here are my thoughts:

1."- Does India want a war right now? -> social, political ramifications.": India never wants war
2. "Is India prepared for a war right now? -> Defence and economic aspects." India is always prepared for war
3. "Will the great powers of the world approve a war right now? -> Geo-politics." Nothing against you personally but it makes me sad to read this. I am reminded of a post by someone many years ago who asked "Did India get prior permission to test this missile over the Bay of Bengal?"

As Indians our minds, our education, our self image tells us that "great power" is someone else. Not us. It is their approval that we need.

I have a point to make here. Being a great power means doing things that we want with no prior approval or permission. I would dismiss all talk of India being a great power as long as Indians, lay people and leaders talk about approvals and permissions from "the great powers"

Points 1 and 2 are redundant. If we take it upon ourselves to act unilaterally in our national interest, it will be others who will be forced to seek our permission. As a nation we lack that spark. Modi has been brought in with great hope. He will have to show if that hope is well placed.

manjgu
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby manjgu » 03 Jan 2016 09:52

a) usually seen DSC with .303 or sometimes with SLR..nothing more. they are usually old ( atleast 70 to 80% of them ) when i was a child at AF bases. its like a post retirement rehabilitation of soldiers b) talking of nullah running int to perimeter... i sometimes go a place where there is a HUGE ordanance depot and i see a similar nullah going into the perimeter of that ordanance depot. this is a issue at many airports as well... including many AF airports.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby vishvak » 03 Jan 2016 09:52

A few things that can be done at minimum:
* Light up the LAC border in PoK and take control of as much land as possible, during attack and beyond, by keeping forces ready to act - after all it is our territory run over by 'irregular armed militants' during 1948. This will show clearly the selective peace deals offered that are passed off as normal. Also, cause as much trouble and casualties as possible so the pukies know what is coming every time there are terror attacks.
* Get response of fourfathers recorded over support to terrorists Pakis even under nuke umbrella. Prepare for response and keep the record ready to show in case any noise is made.
* Total support to freedom fighters in Balochistan, nuke tech knowhow to Afghans, moral support to freedom fighters within Pakistan on lines given to moral support by Pakis in many insurgencies in India over decades.
* Start decimating infrastructure in Pakistan, slow breakdown of the terror state. Let fourfathers take in bious refugees on humanitarian grounds.
* Oppose giving out doles to Pakis by IMF, part of which is provided for by Indians. Build intelligence network along IB, and decimate smuggling routes.
* Buy some Su-27/30s for Afghans and bomb regions near occupied J&K, while Indians make way to connect to Afghanistan.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby habal » 03 Jan 2016 09:55

johneeG wrote:The points that Dilli has to face when they have to escalate is:
- Does India want a war right now? -> social, political ramifications.
- Is India prepared for a war right now? -> Defence and economic aspects.
- Will the great powers of the world approve a war right now? -> Geo-politics.


yaar what kind of yindoo bania logic is this ??

if some rogue kills your son, murders the wife will you think of economic cost, what neighbours may think, what the guy living in biggest house of neighboirhood may think, will i be able to make a living after exacting revenge.

such thoughts come only when one sees this happen to someone else distant from us.

we spend billions building up war chest just so that we do NOT have to think like this when settling scores with rogues.


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