Pathankot AirForce base under attack

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partha
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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby partha » 02 Jan 2016 10:42

2 loud explosions heard from inside the base. This is not looking good.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby devesh » 02 Jan 2016 10:47

Bihanga wrote:Airbase attack certainly signify extensive survelliane of Pathankot airbase were done, also four gunman has definatly give away element of surprise by ambushing a car and thereby alerting our security forces. In normal course, one simply can't predict which target about to get their reception, also hand of Pak ISI cannot be ruled out as they were involved in honey trapping of IAF and BSF personel to extract our airbase deployments.

Tit for tat attack as some members suggested above should never going to solve this upcoming crisis, as elements in Pak army and ISI certainly drawing Indian security forces into escalatory response.



Above thinking fails to take jihadi psyche into account.

Tit for tat with casualties on enemy side an order of magnitude greater. That is the only way to deal with Jihadis and Islamics.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jan 2016 10:51

Some thoughts on Pathankot AFB attack:

1. Pakistan resorting to attacks outside Kashmir as we've managed to force status quo in the Valley. It cannot inflict 'pain' on us in Kashmir. That leverage is lost.

2. But attacking India outside of Kashmir framework cannot be explained under the 'freedom fighter' paradigm unless someone in Pakistan claims responsibility; if someone does that, it will force Pakistan to do something about it. Even undertaking a sham investigation on lines of 26/11 puts pressure on Pakistan and its fault lines. Not to forget, it gives Pakistan a 'bad name'.

3. So, this gets registered as a true case of asymmetric war against India. And attacking an AFB is as close to waging a war as possible. Only 26/11 or 2001 are next in the escalation ladder.

4. Someone really went for broke here; a lot of capital was spent on this attack and stakes ARE MEANT to be raised high by attacking an AFB. NM's Lahore visit has really really rankled the Deep State.

5. Also, I don't think Pathankot AFB was happening irrespective of talks - that base has open areas all around with heavy vegetation. Not to forget a canal running right through it. In an attack like 26/11, there was deliberate action all along the way. In this attack, the only deliberate part was pointing to the intended target. That's it. If someone really wanted to take out fighter assets in Pathankot, they could've planned better. Rather than use the spray and pray tactics, more deliberate and covert attempts could've been make to infiltrate the base.

But it seems someone wanted to make a point. A big point. And quickly. Any damage to fighter assets, or prolonging the siege is an additional bonus. And good optics. Please don't forget that Gurdaspur-Pathankot belt has a huge concentration of army establishments. And these are sited right next to the main roads/highways. If you close your eyes and throw a stone randomly, chances are it will land in an army establishment. There are 'n' number of more vulnerable targets which could've been picked up and where casualties would be much higher.

But attacking an Air Force station signals a gross escalation and making a point.

Also, please don't forget that ISI agents have been held in Bhatinda and Pathankot a few days back. So, someone wanted to quickly act on the intelligence.

6. But what is equally important that GOI had anticipated the move. It would be difficult to pin-point the target but heightened level of security can help to reduce options for terrorists, make them make mistakes and reduce casualties/damage in case of an attack.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jan 2016 10:53

This might seem perverse but Garuds have their first baptism by fire...should do good to the organization.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Bihanga » 02 Jan 2016 11:02

devesh wrote:
Bihanga wrote:Airbase attack certainly signify extensive survelliane of Pathankot airbase were done, also four gunman has definatly give away element of surprise by ambushing a car and thereby alerting our security forces. In normal course, one simply can't predict which target about to get their reception, also hand of Pak ISI cannot be ruled out as they were involved in honey trapping of IAF and BSF personel to extract our airbase deployments.

Tit for tat attack as some members suggested above should never going to solve this upcoming crisis, as elements in Pak army and ISI certainly drawing Indian security forces into escalatory response.



Above thinking fails to take jihadi psyche into account.

Tit for tat with casualties on enemy side an order of magnitude greater. That is the only way to deal with Jihadis and Islamics.


Devesh, you need to understand that we are not NATO or CIA who shall send Predator Drones sailing across the border to avenge this airbase attack.

This exactly Pak army and ISI are aware about and this frontal assault which they are perfecting to master the art of ambushs is testimony to that only.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rkhanna » 02 Jan 2016 11:10

This might seem perverse but Garuds have their first baptism by fire...should do good to the organization.


Quick Questions. I am reading that the Garuds are being Called in. Isnt a Garund Platoon Supposed to be stationed at major AFBs anyways. And given the Previous Incident in Punjab wouldnt have made sense to Have a Garud Unit there to begin with?

Also - if Any Guru can share a rationale - Why NSG? This is a Mil Installation wouldn't Garud be enough this is their bread and butter. Or is it that its the first incident so low trust ratio on Garud? Also would the IAF Top Brass be okay with a MHA unit running around on their base?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Pratyush » 02 Jan 2016 11:15

It seems that the attack is over. If PTI is to be trusted. I find the post from. RV to be most logical in terms of what happened. And am relieved that we didn't suffer more in terms of losses.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Sid » 02 Jan 2016 11:23

rkhanna wrote:
This might seem perverse but Garuds have their first baptism by fire...should do good to the organization.


Quick Questions. I am reading that the Garuds are being Called in. Isnt a Garund Platoon Supposed to be stationed at major AFBs anyways. And given the Previous Incident in Punjab wouldnt have made sense to Have a Garud Unit there to begin with?

Also - if Any Guru can share a rationale - Why NSG? This is a Mil Installation wouldn't Garud be enough this is their bread and butter. Or is it that its the first incident so low trust ratio on Garud? Also would the IAF Top Brass be okay with a MHA unit running around on their base?


NSG has authority /jurisdiction as its related to internal/homeland security.

Even in US when a active shooter is reported on a military installation, e.g during a lone wolf attack on marine base in US, police were called in. they did not wait for Navy SEAL to swoop in.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Shameek » 02 Jan 2016 11:37

From PTI:
IAF has pressed into service two attack helicopters which are targeting the areas from where the firing is believed to be coming from, the sources said.
The security forces have deployed drones to get the exact location of the terrorists.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jan 2016 11:39

Sid wrote:<SNIP>NSG has authority /jurisdiction as its related to internal/homeland security.

Even in US when a active shooter is reported on a military installation, e.g during a lone wolf attack on marine base in US, police were called in. they did not wait for Navy SEAL to swoop in.


First point - the NSG seems to have been called in yesterday night prior to the attack on AFB. It was done post the abduction and subsequent release of an SP and his car in Gurdapsur. NSA seems to have ordered NSG as preventive measure to retaliate quickly in case of another Gurdaspur type attack or hostage situation in built-up area/military installation in the region. Which seems to be brilliant thinking and shows the benefit of having an operational man at the help. And not another IFS babu or file pushing IPS types.

As for following protocols, the IAF would've asked for IA help immediately and I doubt anyone would've bothered about protocols. But Garuds and Defense Service Corps (DSC) seem to have done the job of pinning down the shit-heads after the initial surprise. But IA elements from Pathankot cantonment and SF from Udhampur seem to have been called in.

PS: the attack helicopters are based in Pathankot AFB itself.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby ramana » 02 Jan 2016 11:42

RV why comment on ops details till it is really over?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jan 2016 11:45

ramana wrote:RV why comment on ops details till it is really over?


Which part? :-?

Everything is from public information/current news.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby abhishekm » 02 Jan 2016 11:55

rohitvats wrote:
ramana wrote:RV why comment on ops details till it is really over?


Which part? :-?

Everything is from public information/current news.


Shudhi Ranjan Sen from NDTV says because it's a Jaish operation there's no hand of the Pakistani establishment behind this attack. Ridiculous! Also just saw visuals of attack helos circling overhead- look like Mi 35s.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby svinayak » 02 Jan 2016 12:10

6 terrorists reported

LIVE TV INDIA TODAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaGv3Az9i-M

5TH terrorist hiding in area

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby abhik » 02 Jan 2016 12:11

Newswallas reporting that the Mi-35s are actually firing. Wondering if it is actually true or have they pulled it out of their mush.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby svinayak » 02 Jan 2016 12:15

Heli shooting is being shown in the India Today TV.
Also attackers are from Jaish and LeT

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby svinayak » 02 Jan 2016 12:18

Sandeep Singh Sarjewala
One politician is demanding that PM modi should take this up with Pak
He wants that Punjab be not attacked by terrorists and wants PM Modi to talk to Pak
Last edited by svinayak on 02 Jan 2016 12:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby svinayak » 02 Jan 2016 12:26

Similar to the security grid in J&K the punjab border should also have the security grid.

That is the only way to prevent future attack on the IB

This should be also done on the Rajasthan border IB

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby svinayak » 02 Jan 2016 12:27

Hunt on for 2 more terrorists

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby member_22733 » 02 Jan 2016 12:31

if this is not a hurried operation from suar-e-Bakshitstanis, then the other possibility is that this maybe planned for a long time, but because the security went up due to intelligence alertness, they could not manage to do as much damage as they hoped for.

The support for this being a hurried op is also strong. Almost everyone here saw some attack of this form coming after Ganja and Modiji met in a surprise visit. The visit may have been a surprise for the (un)uniformed jeehardies in the TSPA and the rag-tag cronie bunch. The ideal time therefore to pull this stunt would have been when Modiji was in Afghanistan, but they did not do it possibly because they never saw the Modiji/GanjaSharief meeting occuring.

Someone screwed up among the pigs, somewhere. They are certain to be exposed and possibly neutralized soon if Modiji and team did their ground work before this trip.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby svinayak » 02 Jan 2016 12:36

Shiv Sena
The People are waiting for the response from Home Minister

CPI - D Raja
Govt should give a reply about this attack

---------
GPS recovered from the attackers

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Guddu » 02 Jan 2016 12:39

I don't think this attack will stop talks, for that a more serious provocation is needed...but how can we punish pak ?, Home minister is no different than MMS. I cannot imagine Modi/Doval duo had not planned for such an incident after the visit to Lahore. In think good sharif does not control anything,,,its bad sheriff who needs to be reprimanded. I think Modi is forced to respond, if we don't inflict pain, the next attack will be worse.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby deejay » 02 Jan 2016 12:41

Guddu wrote:I don't think this attack will stop talks, for that a more serious provocation is needed...but how can we punish pak ?, Home minister is no different than MMS. I cannot imagine Modi/Doval duo had not planned for such an incident after the visit to Lahore. In think good sharif does not control anything,,,its bad sheriff who needs to be reprimanded. I think Modi is forced to respond, if we don't inflict pain, the next attack will be worse.


Guddu ji, is it possible for you to spell out exactly when does an attack become "a more serious provocation"?

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby svinayak » 02 Jan 2016 12:52

INDIA TODAY not giving live operational coverage of the attack

INDIA TODAY deferring the live footage of the coverage of the details

Crucial stage of the operation going on

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Mihaylo » 02 Jan 2016 12:53

The best response is to resurrect Baluchistan involvement and/or kick it up a few notches. Then we can truly commit to 'insulating talks from terror'. This is the only way forward.

-M

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby abhishek_sharma » 02 Jan 2016 12:54

Nitin A. Gokhale ‏@nitingokhale 46m46 minutes ago

Intercepted phone call frm SSP's snatched phone had given some inkling of attack. Pathankot AF Base was fortified by Army Spl Forces 1/3

Nitin A. Gokhale ‏@nitingokhale 48m48 minutes ago

The operations in Pathankot AF base are confined to peripheral areas. Technical areas have been under a security blanket since last night

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby nirav » 02 Jan 2016 12:55

The difference between AFB attacks in India and Pak is that Pak has paid dearly when attacked.

Time for some F solahs to get blown up by TTP AoA chanters.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Gyan » 02 Jan 2016 13:05

Mihaylo wrote:The best response is to resurrect Baluchistan involvement and/or kick it up a few notches. Then we can truly commit to 'insulating talks from terror'. This is the only way forward.

-M


Talked to some very highly placed Pakis in Civilian Napaki Govt, who openly admit that Pak Govt has already lost control of most of Baluchistan.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby abhishekm » 02 Jan 2016 13:15

Acute DDM-itis strikes once again with media outlets reporting that Mi 35s are attacking terrorists (Aaj Tak) or leading the attack (NewsX). NDTV has been sensible, correctly describing these movements of attack helos as "sorties".

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby jagga » 02 Jan 2016 13:16

Talks & Retaliation can go together. I hope we have assets (non state actors) in enemy country. They needs to be activated.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Baikul » 02 Jan 2016 13:32

I'll wait for the facts to emerge but something about this Pakistani op 'feels' all very rigid or stale or or routine, maybe even formulaic, I'm not even sure of the word I'm looking for.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby nirav » 02 Jan 2016 13:33

jagga wrote:Talks & Retaliation can go together. I hope we have assets (non state actors) in enemy country. They needs to be activated.


We can actually put a spin on anti terror ops and offer the might of Indian military to take on the terrorists, under aman ki asha ofc.

After all Paki land is a victim of terror.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Nikhil T » 02 Jan 2016 14:21

First, RIP brave soldiers.

It is very interesting that this attack is being linked to the SP abduction yesterday. Another datapoint is the alleged IAF spy who was arrested by Delhi Police - he belonged to the Bathinda AFB. Clearly shows how ISI is going all out to gather information about IAF bases in Punjab.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby SriKumar » 02 Jan 2016 14:34

The entire IAF base and all the surrounding areas have to be swept absolutely clean.

There was a terrorist attack in Jammu (near Nagrota, I believe), Tanda, near Akhnoor many years ago, where terrorists attacked an army base. In the counter-response, several terrorist were killed and it seemed like the problem was over. But many hours later, senior army officers came to inspect the area, and one officer (Brigadier) was killed by a terrorist who lay low and hid quietly for hours.

In this case, every structure, warehouse, ditch, grass cover & forest cover has to be checked and sanitized.

Added later: Found the link. It seems that it could have been worse. Two generals were also around...one was injured.

http://www.thehindu.com/2003/07/23/stor ... 800100.htm

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Shanmukh » 02 Jan 2016 14:59

This is specifically directed to security knowledgeable folks like Rohit Vats-ji & Shiv-ji,

How hard is it to take over (take over, not just destroy) a dozen (change this to any appropriate number) Pakistani border posts in PoK? Can we have a land (Pakistani land) for terror (Pakistani terror against India) policy? Every time there is a Pakistani attack, can we permanently change the border in Kashmir in our favour?

Sure, let us keep the ties warm, by all means, but the border super hot - in fact, heated into a fluid whereby the contours of it, by the time it has `cooled' into a solid form has changed in our favour?

Pakistanis can easily overlook us destroying a few of their posts & killing a few low level terrorist idiots & soldiers (Pak generals don't give a fig about either), but won't it be disastrous to their H&D if we take away their territory permanently?

Same with destroying their equipment or planes. They will get more baksheesh from America or Europe & no permanent damage done to them.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby jagga » 02 Jan 2016 15:09

From TOI:Parrikar holds meeting with service chiefs and NSA Doval over Pathankot attack

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Ardeshir » 02 Jan 2016 15:22

I see on Twitter than one of the fallen is a Garud. 6 Pakrats causing the death of 1 of our SF is unacceptable damage.
I hope we know the names, so we can pay our respects.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Philip » 02 Jan 2016 15:33

What do you tell the families and loved ones of the martyred and injured? That we'll forever talk to Pak? AS said before.we've been slapped on both the cheeks and bloodied all over the body ad infinitum. The time was long past to strike back.Pak has to pay for its perfidy in blood.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby Karan M » 02 Jan 2016 16:20

I'd suggest instead of outraging over the fact the attack occurred, we figure out ways and means the GOI can actually impose a cost on TSP. Talking, no talking is meaningless symbolism at best. What needs to be done is to impose a cost on TSP and its various actors all of whom claim to have no influence on other. IMHO, targeting ISI and the jihadi infra should be our #1 priority. How to do it, thats the question.

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Re: Pathankot AirForce base under attack

Postby nirav » 02 Jan 2016 16:27

Karan M wrote:I'd suggest instead of outraging over the fact the attack occurred, we figure out ways and means the GOI can actually impose a cost on TSP. Talking, no talking is meaningless symbolism at best. What needs to be done is to impose a cost on TSP and its various actors all of whom claim to have no influence on other. IMHO, targeting ISI and the jihadi infra should be our #1 priority. How to do it, thats the question.


+1

it was the Eeriye that was halaled earlier. Time to take out the ZDK. All hail TTP.


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