India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Ramu
BRFite
Posts: 123
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 17:05

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Ramu » 04 Jan 2016 05:22

we should start with denying 72 raisins for these dead pigs.
simple and easily achievable.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9273
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Jan 2016 06:06

I am a mango here but one question I had in mind for a long time - If terror activities can be conducted under a paki nuclear threat then can't we conduct anti terror activities under Indian nuclear umbrella? Why are we thinking that pakis will resort to Indian attacks on LeT targets with a full-scale nuclear attack on India? There is some mad mulla or a mulla general with a nuclear button in paki land?

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3150
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Kakkaji » 04 Jan 2016 06:22

Centre mulls tailoring talks sequence

New Delhi, Jan. 3: The government tonight signalled it was re-evaluating the sequencing of peace talks with Pakistan after twin terror strikes in Pathankot and Afghanistan left it battling criticism of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent overtures to Islamabad.

The "rethink" arose from a late evening meeting between Modi, national security adviser Ajit Doval and foreign secretary S. Jaishankar that lasted close to an hour. Around the same time, reports emerged about bomb explosions near the Indian consulate in the Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif.

The "comprehensive dialogue" with Pakistan, announced by foreign minister Sushma Swaraj when she visited Islamabad last month, remains untouched for the moment, two officials told The Telegraph.

But Modi has asked Jaishankar and Doval to explore whether the foreign secretary's scheduled January 15 visit to Islamabad should be deferred by a few days and preceded by a meeting of the national security advisers to specifically discuss the Pathankot and Afghanistan attacks.

No decision has been taken yet on postponing Jaishankar's visit, the officials added. But they conceded the growing pressure the government faced over its Pakistan policy, which has witnessed serial flip-flops during Modi's 19 months in power.

That pressure earlier in the day saw Sushma attempt for the first time to weld a broad strategic consensus on the government's approach to Pakistan through consultations with veteran diplomats.

She hurriedly called a meeting with six former high commissioners to Pakistan and an ex-foreign secretary. Accompanied by her deputy V.K. Singh and Jaishankar, she told the ex-envoys that for the moment, the government was keen to avoid calling off key talks scheduled this month, two diplomats present at the meeting said.


Jaishankar's Islamabad trip, where he is to meet his counterpart Aizaz Ahmed Chaudhry, is aimed at drawing up a road map for a range of parallel negotiations under the "comprehensive dialogue".

But Sushma also told the diplomats that she wanted their "collective wisdom", offering the first glimpse of the pressure the administration was under after serial about-turns on Islamabad.

Those about-turns have been accompanied by an absence of clarity that has left even supporters of dialogue with Pakistan within the strategic community, including many of the diplomats Sushma met today, searching for some consistency.

"What we really need with the Pakistan policy of this government is some continuity, some consistency," foreign policy analyst and JNU international relations professor Happymon Jacob had told this newspaper in a recent interview. "I say that even as I welcome the move towards a thaw."

The former diplomats who met Sushma represent the who's who of India's brains trust on Pakistan for over two decades.

Sushma sat at the head of an oval-shaped table between Singh and Jaishankar. Next to Singh sat Satinder Lambah, high commissioner to Pakistan from 1992 to 1995 (including the period of the Bombay blasts) and former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's special envoy for talks with Islamabad.

Next was former foreign secretary Shyam Saran. Beside him sat T.C.A. Raghavan, high commissioner to Pakistan till December 31.

Next sat Sharat Sabharwal, high commissioner in Islamabad from 2009 to 2013, and Satyabrata Pal, high commissioner during the 2008 Mumbai attacks. The Modi government had not called these veteran diplomats together for such consultations on Pakistan till now.


Modi has met his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif twice within a month, the latest during his surprise Christmas visit to Lahore. Sushma had travelled to Islamabad on December 9 to announce the resumption of broad-based talks on all disputes. Doval met his counterpart, Nasser Khan Janjua, in Bangkok on December 6.

The government, officials said, is intensely aware of the political risks from the images of Modi and Sharif walking hand in hand at Lahore airport if the Pathankot attack gets entrenched in the public mind as a Pakistan-sponsored strike.

Modi's predecessors Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh too had faced intense political pressure when they tried to pursue peace talks amid terror attacks. Modi faces the further allegation of turning back on his own words - he had been unsparing in accusing Manmohan of being "soft on terror".

Modi had repeatedly said during the general election campaign that talks with Pakistan could not proceed in the backdrop of gunshots and explosions - the exact situation today.

Broad support from the former diplomats can help the government justify pursuing peace talks despite Modi's earlier comments.

Political sources in the BJP said Modi was keen not to let the attacks derail the peace process, which appeared to have the Sangh leadership's support for now.

Most of the diplomats today cautioned against cancelling the mid-January talks. Instead, they suggested, Jaishankar should during his visit share any evidence of Pakistani links to the Pathankot attack.

Sushma told them the government had intelligence suggesting the terrorists may have come from Bahawalpur in Pakistan's Punjab and may have links with the Jaish-e-Mohammed terror group, known to have had support from sections within the Pakistani army.

"The mistake we have sometimes made in the past is to equate these sections within the Pakistani establishment with the Pakistan government," Pal had told this newspaper on Saturday.

"Yes, there was a time when these sections represented the mainstream in Pakistan. Not any more."..

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50624
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2016 06:40

SuryaG

Most of the diplomats today cautioned against cancelling the mid-January talks. Instead, they suggested, Jaishankar should during his visit share any evidence of Pakistani links to the Pathankot attack.

Your desire for dossiers is being furthered here.

chanakyaa
BRFite
Posts: 1189
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 00:09
Location: Hiding in Karakoram

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby chanakyaa » 04 Jan 2016 06:45

I hope whatever the options are, we implement as ferociously as mighty Fedor Emelianenko. Watch for few minutes if not in full to understand what "ferocious" means. Not quite relevant to this dhaaga but we are discussing options, without addressing attitude, so I couldn't help get it out.

Last edited by chanakyaa on 04 Jan 2016 06:50, edited 1 time in total.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9273
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Jan 2016 06:47

IFS fellows do not learn. Their Brit educated minds do not understand this gazwa e hind. NM and SS are better served to listen to AD than them.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby shiv » 04 Jan 2016 06:50

RoyG wrote:We won't be able to win against Pakistan if we target jihadi infra. It is simply too large and self sustaining.

.

That is an interesting point and I agree. "Jihadi infra" is an ideology that can be kept alive as long as humans are alive.

Islamic methods of killing anyone who disagrees or dissents is the simplest and most effective method of protecting the ideology. There is no alternative to shedding the hidden pseudosecularism that most of us are forced to show and point out that we have to fight Islam and force it to act differently. Jihads know this and acknowledge this. We need to keeps our eyes and minds open.

Historically if Kabila X attacked city Y ruled by a Raja, killing all the men, abducting all the women. burning the city and crops is simply the most briliiant method of total victory. Our hatred of an ideology must not blind us to its brilliant and brutal simplicity

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50624
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2016 06:53

Yagnasri However gives AD room for operations.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50624
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2016 06:55

NaMo should visit Islamabad. Will trigger a coup or a nuke attack on India.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5181
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby RoyG » 04 Jan 2016 06:58

ramana wrote:SuryaG

Most of the diplomats today cautioned against cancelling the mid-January talks. Instead, they suggested, Jaishankar should during his visit share any evidence of Pakistani links to the Pathankot attack.

Your desire for dossiers is being furthered here.


Keep a date. Needle them a few days before. We need time to draw up plans for how to deal with their kinetic response. They will first cancel on us and then hit us again. It will have to be a significant hit on their officer corp to be effective. (~20-30 soldiers)

Go for the meat. The skin can grow back.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9273
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Jan 2016 07:01

Ramana sir. I understand there is a need for time to plan and execute any response. I only hope it is being done as we are all typing on our laptops.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5181
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby RoyG » 04 Jan 2016 07:15

shiv wrote:
RoyG wrote:We won't be able to win against Pakistan if we target jihadi infra. It is simply too large and self sustaining.

.

That is an interesting point and I agree. "Jihadi infra" is an ideology that can be kept alive as long as humans are alive.

Islamic methods of killing anyone who disagrees or dissents is the simplest and most effective method of protecting the ideology. There is no alternative to shedding the hidden pseudosecularism that most of us are forced to show and point out that we have to fight Islam and force it to act differently. Jihads know this and acknowledge this. We need to keeps our eyes and minds open.

Historically if Kabila X attacked city Y ruled by a Raja, killing all the men, abducting all the women. burning the city and crops is simply the most briliiant method of total victory. Our hatred of an ideology must not blind us to its brilliant and brutal simplicity


The best way to do it is to slowly turn segments of their society against the very idea of Pakistan and feed the Pakistan Army and their b*itch boy Sharif gajar ka halwa. I call it halwa diplomacy. If you want a long term solution this is it.

If you need a short term tactical solution poach ~20-30 of their officer corp and shove some more halwa into their mouths. PIMPs (officers) are hard to replace, but b*tches (pissful aka civil society/jihadis) ain't.

Screambowl
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 96
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Screambowl » 04 Jan 2016 07:18

Why cannot we deploy SFF, against POK( shias are dominant there)? It's high time. More over, Shias are also not happy with the Sunnis, due to execution of one of the Shia leader.

Thousands of Shias protested in Pakistan and Indian-held Kashmir on Sunday to condemn Saudi Arabia's execution of a leading Shia cleric Nimr al-Nimr, as fury over the killing spread.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1230503/protes ... -execution

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5181
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby RoyG » 04 Jan 2016 07:25

Screambowl wrote:Why cannot we deploy SFF, against POK( shias are dominant there)? It's high time. More over, Shias are also not happy with the Sunnis, due to execution of one of the Shia leader.

Thousands of Shias protested in Pakistan and Indian-held Kashmir on Sunday to condemn Saudi Arabia's execution of a leading Shia cleric Nimr al-Nimr, as fury over the killing spread.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1230503/protes ... -execution


Deploying SFF isn't the best course of action. But in any case, this is an excellent example of potential talent. Good find.

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3150
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Kakkaji » 04 Jan 2016 07:26

I think the first step on the retaliation ladder should be the ones that hit the Paki economy as Prof. Vaidyanathan had outlined.

Then covert action using Pakistani assets inside Pakistan as was done during PVNR's time.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5181
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby RoyG » 04 Jan 2016 07:36

Kakkaji wrote:I think the first step on the retaliation ladder should be the ones that hit the Paki economy as Prof. Vaidyanathan had outlined.

Then covert action using Pakistani assets inside Pakistan as was done during PVNR's time.


Kakkaji, what economy? Drugs? Textiles?

Nearly the whole country was flooded and the economy came to a standstill in many places and those "civil" society aka jihadi orgs picked up the slack with more Islam, food, and narcotics money.

If you want to hurt them economically, decriminalize/legalize and regulate production of select drugs in India and they'll sit up.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50624
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2016 07:43

RoyG. looks like FS level talks based on Pak action.

CNN-IBN reporting. twitter

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5181
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby RoyG » 04 Jan 2016 07:49

ramana wrote:RoyG. looks like FS level talks based on Pak action.

CNN-IBN reporting. twitter


Thanks, looking into it.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5181
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby RoyG » 04 Jan 2016 08:02

72 hrs. If the ultimatum is indeed true, prepare for some fireworks.

Shivji and others - we're going to need some targets. Time to dust off. Officer concentrations, jihadi hqs, etc.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 50624
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2016 08:04

What 72 hours Lets not be cryptic

never mind:
http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2016/ ... 88a9e69883

time to remind Indian military Kunti's words before MB war. Every mother and father of a soldier looks forward to!!!!

Do not come up with excuse of need time.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5181
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby RoyG » 04 Jan 2016 08:09

ramana wrote:What 72 hours Lets not be cryptic


For talks. Looks like they're headed for cancellation. PA won't move against them. Have a feeling we'll be seeing something.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/india ... 84969.html

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15567
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2016 08:18

ramana wrote:KaranM, List OVERT and COVERT moves and look at the forks in the road for each option.


I can do that. I was wary during UPA of posting all this in the open forum though for obvious reasons. Also, even with current status, elucidating each fork has issues (our vulnerabilities). Perhaps someplace else..?

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9273
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Jan 2016 08:20

ramana wrote:Yagnasri However gives AD room for operations.
I am looking into Indus Valley Treaty 1960. But I am not getting much in way of withdrawal from it. Normally treaties are governed by Vienna Convention on the law of treaties 1969.

We need to look carefully to see if there is any scope to withdraw from IVT in total or even suspend the same for some time. There is also the possibility of not doing anything other than that is provided in the IVT and yet hurt pakis every badly. For example, release the entire paki share at once in the peak period so that they do not have the capacity store. It shall be possible and less controversial.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15567
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2016 08:25

This is not a positive development, if this news is true. It shows my "assumption" that the present Govt (like many other Govts in the past) is repeating the mistakes of its predecessors - taking some grandiloquent promises by the civilians (Bhutto in 71, Nawaz in 1999) and their pleas as a tangible means to improve things. Trying to reach out to them (all people are not the same, there is a peace constituency yada yada) and then getting shocked by the response of the deep state. The one positive is the current GOI/Modi admin is not overcome by prepartition love or appeasement hysteria ("first claim on resources belongs to...") however, the lack of exploring what would occur after such an event & then predeciding what needed to be done, seems evident. Otherwise why call the bunch of diplomats and ask them what to do, as versus brief them on the plan which had been decided keeping such contingencies (terror attacks) in mind?
So, despite all our expectations on MAD, we need to realize even Doval et al can only do so much when the apparatus of the Indian state - such as the Punjab Police & the border areas, have been so dysfunctional for so long. I would also ask people to look at the ISI Chiefs response to AM PK Barboras "target list" note around 26/11. Its instructive Pakistan at that point, despite bluster, thought of retaliating via ISI and its assets. I think the ISI chief at the time was Shuja Nawaz? So breaking the ISIs grip in India should be our #1 priority. Otherwise, all these peace talks wagehra have no tangible answers.

Kakkaji wrote:Centre mulls tailoring talks sequence

New Delhi, Jan. 3: The government tonight signalled it was re-evaluating the sequencing of peace talks with Pakistan after twin terror strikes in Pathankot and Afghanistan left it battling criticism of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent overtures to Islamabad.

The "rethink" arose from a late evening meeting between Modi, national security adviser Ajit Doval and foreign secretary S. Jaishankar that lasted close to an hour. Around the same time, reports emerged about bomb explosions near the Indian consulate in the Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif.

The "comprehensive dialogue" with Pakistan, announced by foreign minister Sushma Swaraj when she visited Islamabad last month, remains untouched for the moment, two officials told The Telegraph.

But Modi has asked Jaishankar and Doval to explore whether the foreign secretary's scheduled January 15 visit to Islamabad should be deferred by a few days and preceded by a meeting of the national security advisers to specifically discuss the Pathankot and Afghanistan attacks.

No decision has been taken yet on postponing Jaishankar's visit, the officials added. But they conceded the growing pressure the government faced over its Pakistan policy, which has witnessed serial flip-flops during Modi's 19 months in power.

That pressure earlier in the day saw Sushma attempt for the first time to weld a broad strategic consensus on the government's approach to Pakistan through consultations with veteran diplomats.

She hurriedly called a meeting with six former high commissioners to Pakistan and an ex-foreign secretary. Accompanied by her deputy V.K. Singh and Jaishankar, she told the ex-envoys that for the moment, the government was keen to avoid calling off key talks scheduled this month, two diplomats present at the meeting said.


Jaishankar's Islamabad trip, where he is to meet his counterpart Aizaz Ahmed Chaudhry, is aimed at drawing up a road map for a range of parallel negotiations under the "comprehensive dialogue".

But Sushma also told the diplomats that she wanted their "collective wisdom", offering the first glimpse of the pressure the administration was under after serial about-turns on Islamabad.

Those about-turns have been accompanied by an absence of clarity that has left even supporters of dialogue with Pakistan within the strategic community, including many of the diplomats Sushma met today, searching for some consistency.

"What we really need with the Pakistan policy of this government is some continuity, some consistency," foreign policy analyst and JNU international relations professor Happymon Jacob had told this newspaper in a recent interview. "I say that even as I welcome the move towards a thaw."

The former diplomats who met Sushma represent the who's who of India's brains trust on Pakistan for over two decades.

Sushma sat at the head of an oval-shaped table between Singh and Jaishankar. Next to Singh sat Satinder Lambah, high commissioner to Pakistan from 1992 to 1995 (including the period of the Bombay blasts) and former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's special envoy for talks with Islamabad.

Next was former foreign secretary Shyam Saran. Beside him sat T.C.A. Raghavan, high commissioner to Pakistan till December 31.

Next sat Sharat Sabharwal, high commissioner in Islamabad from 2009 to 2013, and Satyabrata Pal, high commissioner during the 2008 Mumbai attacks. The Modi government had not called these veteran diplomats together for such consultations on Pakistan till now.


Modi has met his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif twice within a month, the latest during his surprise Christmas visit to Lahore. Sushma had travelled to Islamabad on December 9 to announce the resumption of broad-based talks on all disputes. Doval met his counterpart, Nasser Khan Janjua, in Bangkok on December 6.

The government, officials said, is intensely aware of the political risks from the images of Modi and Sharif walking hand in hand at Lahore airport if the Pathankot attack gets entrenched in the public mind as a Pakistan-sponsored strike.

Modi's predecessors Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh too had faced intense political pressure when they tried to pursue peace talks amid terror attacks. Modi faces the further allegation of turning back on his own words - he had been unsparing in accusing Manmohan of being "soft on terror".

Modi had repeatedly said during the general election campaign that talks with Pakistan could not proceed in the backdrop of gunshots and explosions - the exact situation today.

Broad support from the former diplomats can help the government justify pursuing peace talks despite Modi's earlier comments.

Political sources in the BJP said Modi was keen not to let the attacks derail the peace process, which appeared to have the Sangh leadership's support for now.

Most of the diplomats today cautioned against cancelling the mid-January talks. Instead, they suggested, Jaishankar should during his visit share any evidence of Pakistani links to the Pathankot attack.

Sushma told them the government had intelligence suggesting the terrorists may have come from Bahawalpur in Pakistan's Punjab and may have links with the Jaish-e-Mohammed terror group, known to have had support from sections within the Pakistani army.

"The mistake we have sometimes made in the past is to equate these sections within the Pakistani establishment with the Pakistan government," Pal had told this newspaper on Saturday.

"Yes, there was a time when these sections represented the mainstream in Pakistan. Not any more."..

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9273
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Jan 2016 08:35

As I said before these IFS fellows never understand the gazwa e hind. Pakis will never change their colors. Why should they when we are allowing them to get away time and again.

Mihaylo
BRFite
Posts: 720
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 21:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Mihaylo » 04 Jan 2016 08:42

udaym wrote:I hope whatever the options are, we implement as ferociously as mighty Fedor Emelianenko. Watch for few minutes if not in full to understand what "ferocious" means. Not quite relevant to this dhaaga but we are discussing options, without addressing attitude, so I couldn't help get it out.



:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Oh how we wish !!

-M

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15567
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2016 08:45

Yagnasri wrote:As I said before these IFS fellows never understand the gazwa e hind. Pakis will never change their colors. Why should they when we are allowing them to get away time and again.


Thing is Modi makes his own decisions - he is not bureaucracy driven like MMS and co. No appeasement mentality. Being good at heart is not a weakness until and unless you start bringing your own bias into it as MMS did.

So there is this news. Lets see.
http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2016/ ... 88a9e69883

Like I said, I hoped Modi would regard this as his Kargil moment in that he realizes Nawaz really can't deliver on anything due to the deep state and dissuading the deep state should be # 1 priority via all possible methods (appeasement does not work).

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9273
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Jan 2016 08:50

I hope this report is true and they follow it up.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21980
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Austin » 04 Jan 2016 08:51

GOI should dust the file where MOD would have planned for limited strike option in POK against Paki Terror Bases since Kargil days.

Atleast this would give the message to Terrorist that we can reach you and wont be playing defensive battle and loosing our precious soldier all the time.

There should be a cost for this adventure , can't be always twiddling thumb hoping this too will pass away like Parliament Attack or 26/11

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5038
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Surya » 04 Jan 2016 08:54

sure - yea get them in military court :shock: and then they will be acquited with the clowns saying evidence is not enough

what then??

all rubbish - H&D

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby shiv » 04 Jan 2016 08:55

Karan M wrote:Sushma told them the government had intelligence suggesting the terrorists may have come from Bahawalpur in Pakistan's Punjab and may have links with the Jaish-e-Mohammed terror group, known to have had support from sections within the Pakistani army.

"The mistake we have sometimes made in the past is to equate these sections within the Pakistani establishment with the Pakistan government," Pal had told this newspaper on Saturday.

"Yes, there was a time when these sections represented the mainstream in Pakistan. Not any more.".

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. OK OK OK OK OK OK OK

But here is stuff we discussed on BR a decade ago:"Are the terrorists under control of the Pakistani establishment?"

What Sushma Swaraj is saying here is that the terrorists may not be under total control of the Pakistan establishment. This idea was never believed by anyone. Neither BRF or GoI. The stance has been that Musharraf was honest when he said "We control the Mujahideen". So putting pressure on the Pakistan establishment would be expected to cause the terrorists to be reined in.

So what has changed? Why is the government, via Sushma Swaraj doing hint hint nudge nudge and saying that the people we talk to are not the people supporting terrorism? Is it believed that saying this out loud will make the hand of the "anti-terror/peace and friendship lobby" in Pakistan weaker?

Assuming that there is an army faction that can wipe away the civilians (like Bhuttos were killed and Nawaz was exiled) - the idea of supporting civilians can come only if we know that they mean peace and really have no control over terror. Secondly supporting such people in Pakistan can only be effective if that support makes it difficult for the Jihadi factions of the army to conduct a coup.

Now here's the rub. On the face of it the US supports democracy, but it gets all its work done by the Paki army and mollycoddles the Paki army. The Chinese are openly pro-Pak Army who are the people they deal with and get protection for their projects. Neither the US nor China will bat an eyelid if the civilian government goes., and both will howl and protest if the Pakistan army is hurt. What this means is that if Modi hurts the army and supports civilians, the army will (most probably) automatically remove the civilian government and continue to enjoy full support of the US and China.

JMT. Will cross post elsewhere

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15567
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2016 08:56

Where are these so called bases? IMO, based on prior reports they are mostly staging areas, the real bases are deep in Pak Punjab.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15567
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2016 08:57

Shiv, my answer to all the above statements by Swaraj ma'am is simple. So what? Can Pakistan civilian establishment help us? If not. We empathize wutever, but sorry we have a nation to protect and we have to do whatever is necessary. If they are in between, collateral damage.

Mihaylo
BRFite
Posts: 720
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 21:10

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Mihaylo » 04 Jan 2016 08:57

Kakkaji wrote:Centre mulls tailoring talks sequence

Most of the diplomats today cautioned against cancelling the mid-January talks. Instead, they suggested, Jaishankar should during his visit share any evidence of Pakistani links to the Pathankot attack.




Oh great, exchange of dosa season is back.

-M

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15567
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Karan M » 04 Jan 2016 08:58

Mihaylo, there is a follow up report above. Lets see what happens.

kenop
BRFite
Posts: 1333
Joined: 01 Jun 2009 07:28

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby kenop » 04 Jan 2016 09:18

Are there any reports/assessments of the posture of STFUPA ? Are they in some heightened readiness ? Anything noticed by anybody ?

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21980
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby Austin » 04 Jan 2016 09:21

Karan M wrote:Where are these so called bases? IMO, based on prior reports they are mostly staging areas, the real bases are deep in Pak Punjab.


Even if POK say just has staging areas which is not truly the case , pinpoint strikes that takes care of couple of Jihadi or HVT would instill the fear of retaliation in their hearts and minds , so far effectively missing as hence no deterrent against strikes

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4087
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby srai » 04 Jan 2016 10:10

Some retaliatory policies as a default response for any terrorist attacks supported by Pakistan:

  • Punitive Strike -> Short heavy artillery shelling of the border posts and command centers around the area of infiltration with the intent to destroy as much infrastructure on the PoK side supporting such activities
  • Surgical strike #1 -> Brahmos SSM at the PoK camps associated with whichever terrorist outfit responsible for attack (Note: risks of civilian casualties)
  • Surgical strike #2 -> Brahmos SSM to take out leadership of the terrorist outfit responsible for attack (Note: risks of civilian casualties)
  • Covert Ops #1 -> RAW international undercover ops to assassinate terrorists and its leaders involved in the attack (Note: risks of capture/casualties)
  • Covert Ops #2 -> SF strike at terrorist bases close to IoC (Note: risks of capture/casualties)

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3799
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby deejay » 04 Jan 2016 10:13

The 72 hrs ultimatum is quite clear and it clearly says we will not have talks if no action is taken. Kutti! Nahin bolta, jao!

There is no plan of retaliation. BTW, since I don't know when the PM issued the statement the countdown maybe started from the rediff timeline of posting the news January 04, 2016 08:58 or 0900 hrs on 04th Jan. 72 hrs would make it 0900 hrs 07th Jan. Pakistan you have lost 01 hrs 15 mins already.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3694
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist str

Postby sanjaykumar » 04 Jan 2016 10:25

Bah Hambug Where are the guns on the border? Sequential is it, first we'll be attacked then we will mop up then we will give ultumatums and then hum dekhenge?

BSF mortars if not IA artillery need sto be activated and concentrated in two or three spots on the borders upon first contact with any alphabet soup jihadis. The Indian army has massive fire power at its disposal. There is no way Pakistan will escalte, they will call off their dogs tout de suite.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher and 32 guests