India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 25 Sep 2016 01:44

So far Indira Gandhi's reputation as the only Indian PM with balls remains undisputed. IG successfully stared down Nixon and his naval fleet movements in Indian ocean. Many of us have been eager for Modi to join that club and he has that mettle. When we could stare down US and diabloic nixon in 71 without much economic or military muscle, there is no reason we should be intimidated by reports of Cheen's support to Pukistan in case of hostilities.

Pukistan will not and cannot escalate to a full fledged war. Punish them hard in a visible manner. No covert operations will satisfy indians... unless whole of Pindi and Lahore burns.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 25 Sep 2016 01:46

It took IG 6 months of diplomatic offensive to start the military offensive. Relax and wait for it..

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 25 Sep 2016 02:15

How important is bad shareef's impending retirment in nov ?...if we attack now, he gets a chance to stay...best time might be once he is replaced..

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 25 Sep 2016 02:18

Would the next PA chief be any different? I can't say that about next Lok Sabha if Modiji doesn't establish his street creds.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2016 02:47

http://www.abplive.in/blog/modi-savages ... be-in-vain
dunno how big the conclusion of a follow up action would be.. but surely a response is being drafted

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 25 Sep 2016 02:55

Something I have not seen before, watch the furrow on Modi's fore-head...this to me shows something is in the works..

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 25 Sep 2016 03:06

Bheeshma wrote:It took IG 6 months of diplomatic offensive to start the military offensive. Relax and wait for it..

IG wanted to liberate Bangladesh right after the launch of genocide by Paki army in March 71 but Sam Manekshaw said Indian army was not ready and needed at least 6 months to get ready.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 25 Sep 2016 05:11

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2016 07:58

Guddu wrote:Something I have not seen before, watch the furrow on Modi's fore-head...this to me shows something is in the works..

it has to be deep strikes.. not just military alone

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 25 Sep 2016 08:03

If this gobermint wont respond then I can't think of any present dispensation or one in the near future who will.

The only recent instance of Netas mobilising for overt operations was after their back sides were almost tandoorised in the parliament attack.

If TSP is smart it will attack only military targets with the occasional low profile civilian target, scale up fake currency circulation and increase its drug peddling to create as many drug addicts as possible.

If the gobermint won't take covert military action, I can't see any diplomatic measures that will cause TSP to cease its death by a thousand cuts strategy. TSP should be made to be in constant state of aggravation on its eastern and western borders. NaMos moves in Afghanistan and Iran should be further accelerated.

Use some of our FOREX to short the TSP rupee. Pay Soros a commision to do this for us. Make a run on pakee economy. Some of our smart and ruthless bania traders can use their brains to destroy the TSP economy instead of trying to ruin each other. Can we, somehow, increase inflation in TSP to Russian levels post Soviet Union break up?

Create leverage using Balochistan including by granting asylum. Avoid, government in exile for now.

For every attack, a price should be paid by somebody high up in the Pindi Khaki ranks Start with DI.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Sep 2016 08:23

rahulm wrote:If this gobermint wont respond then I can't think of any present dispensation or one in the near future who will.

I think that across party lines netas feel that cost of war does not justify the results that we might get. As far as I can tell the only worthwhile result from war can be a breakup of Pakistan. Anything less is useless in the long term. But that apart I think a slew of measures that have to be taken have not been taken giving Indians the impression that one can have war with a nation and yet have cultural and literary exchanges, people to people contacts, religious visits, water sharing, sports links, MFN trade status etc.

Indian citizens are confused because India follows a confused policy where the military is asked to fight war while others carry on with friendship and trade initiatives. This is completely absurd and now more than ever I think it is necessary to demonstrate to ignorant Indians that actual war means going beyond expecting the military to kick Paki butt while we merrily watch Pakistan TV, allow their people to come and live and trade in India, and let Indians earn money from sports and other exchanges. These are classic examples of left had not knowing what right hand is doing. Uncoordinated and dysfunctional foreign policy by a bunch of babus and politicians who are all equally dumb and ignorant across parties and across the decades.

How can we show that the nation actually supports the military while we allow Indians to do things that earn them money and love from Pakistan and they get all uptight about losing that and blame our own military? This is national weakness based on national dumbness. Pakistan treats us like an enemy nation. Before we make war we need to act like Pakistan is an enemy nation. Instead we act as if our military is at war while we have a choice of either supporting the military or criticizing it. How extraordinarily stupid.

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 25 Sep 2016 08:56

^^we need to get our own house in order first and fast before going around the world and “convincing“ people about TSP.

Certainly, a state a sponsor of terrorism cant be the “Most Favored Nation“ of the worlds largest democracy... Its idiotic.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 25 Sep 2016 09:12

^
MFN is something mandated by WTO rules .
Every country in WTO should maintain MFN status with every other country.

Since Pakis havent extended MFN to India for two decades - i.e since 1996 when India extended MFN status to all including Pakis , i think a WTO arbitration is finally on the cards.Lets see what happens.

Anyway the 3.5 cuntries will want India to continue the unilateral MFN to their munna , as a "subsidy" to pakis (under the garb of WTO).
In effect India is indirectly benefiting Pakis in trade at its own expense - in lovely self sustaining plan chalked up by 3.5 paki fourfathers to balance India within soothasia.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Sep 2016 09:14

Latitude last night.Maroof,GP and Lt.Gen.Hasnain.
Forces given the green light for action at their time and place of choice.No "p*ss in our time" roadblock. Various options other than mil reviewed from Indus waters to assisting the Baluchis and Pashtuns by declaring the Durand Line .
The vulture is a patient bird.

One hopes that our sustained buildup yeilds results.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 25 Sep 2016 09:19

Rahul M wrote:guys, why this rona dhona. the attack in PoK did happen. more such attacks will probably follow.
dont imagine this time we are limited to dosa diplomacy.

are you sure? do you have private info other than what was posted here?

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 25 Sep 2016 09:33

if gen bakshi says..i would believe him...

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 25 Sep 2016 10:46

Gus wrote:
Rahul M wrote:guys, why this rona dhona. the attack in PoK did happen. more such attacks will probably follow.
dont imagine this time we are limited to dosa diplomacy.
are you sure? do you have private info other than what was posted here?

No but there is a lot of belief in this planet that Modi will do something. After all the best way to counter the burning to death of some of our soldiers is to say to Pakistan that poverty is our biggest enemy. BJP has had a love affair with Nawaz Sharif for so long. After Kargil in 1999 BJP leaders went out of their way to insulate Nawaz by saying that he was not aware of the incrusion and what not even when it became clear Pakistani's CoAS had informed Nawaz.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 25 Sep 2016 10:52

Lilo wrote:^
MFN is something mandated by WTO rules .
Every country in WTO should maintain MFN status with every other country.

Since Pakis havent extended MFN to India for two decades - i.e since 1996 when India extended MFN status to all including Pakis , i think a WTO arbitration is finally on the cards.Lets see what happens.

Anyway the 3.5 cuntries will want India to continue the unilateral MFN to their munna , as a "subsidy" to pakis (under the garb of WTO).
In effect India is indirectly benefiting Pakis in trade at its own expense - in lovely self sustaining plan chalked up by 3.5 paki fourfathers to balance India within soothasia.

Fact >> Trade between India and Bakiland, whatever little it is, is massively in favor of India. So MFN does not grant Bakis any advantage with India.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 25 Sep 2016 10:55

MFN doesn't provide pakis anything. There are many restrictions and with an economy going down the drain they simply cannot compete any more. People are frustrated by lack of public jhapads. Private jhapds may be taking place but don't satisfy any jingo.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Sep 2016 11:03

I am not sure that MFN is so innocuous but would be happy to be corrected if I have my facts wrong. In "MFN" etrat duties and takxes are not imposed on imported goods. That means that we do not raise the cost of Pakistani imports by taxing them But Pakistan, not honourung MFN have raised barriers to Indian imports making Indian imports costly for Pakistanis. This has the two following unwanted side effects

1. The little that Pakis can afford to buy directly from India generates tax revenues for the army and ISI and subsidzes terror
2. It encourages smuggling of Indian goods via Dubai - controlled by a mafia in cahoots with Indian businessmen who skim off money.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 25 Sep 2016 11:20

Can someone collate all the statements given by General Bakshi indicating retaliation already done for Uri?

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 25 Sep 2016 11:24

Modi ji, if you cant do anything atleast ban Porki actors from working in India. Make work permits impossible to get. Ask them to sign a declaration condemning Pakistan on terror if they want to get an Indian visa. Applies for all Porkis who want to work in India.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 25 Sep 2016 11:24

Hakim ji,

The correct way to think in my view is that the Army/ISI taxes its own people to subsidizes terror whether the import is from India or any other country.

Having said that, the good from India are cheaper at the border at least to the extent of the transportation cost and that does allow for a larger cut to the state or a fatter margin to the importer. This would apply to both direct and indirect trade between us.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Sep 2016 11:32

Gus wrote:
Rahul M wrote:guys, why this rona dhona. the attack in PoK did happen. more such attacks will probably follow.
dont imagine this time we are limited to dosa diplomacy.
are you sure? do you have private info other than what was posted here?

...

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 25 Sep 2016 12:25

My information that I posted before last week was that nothing will happen as all options given by army had been shot down. And Modi's speech in Kerala seems to confirm that. All news papers are talking about Modi selling 'strategic restraint' to people.

Now unless this is a major maskirovka to get the element of surprise, I believe that nothing is going to happen. Of course individual actions by offensive local commanders might happen but again as I have posted before this will be limited to very shallow small arms fire from our side. The reason is that CO's have to seek permission of higher HQ for any higher calibre wepaon above MMG, LMG. And this permission is not forthcoming unless there is an attack. Fire assaults that Gen Bikram talked about on Times Now are out of the question - political permission is needed for that.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 25 Sep 2016 12:27

self deleted

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 25 Sep 2016 12:27

Rahul I can second that. A chaiwalla with a paternal interest in 19 Div and I had long chat on what may or may not be happening there.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 25 Sep 2016 12:30

Akshay,
My info is contrary.
Not sure how to share to get some corraboration sitting down Under!!!

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 25 Sep 2016 12:36

akshaykapoor108@gmail.com, drop me a quick line.

partha · Post by **partha** » 25 Sep 2016 12:36

Maybe MFN doesn't provide to Pakis anything but if we go around the world making a case for Pakistan to be declared a state sponsor of terrorism while having given the status of MFN to them, we will look like fools.

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 25 Sep 2016 12:38

Chandragupta wrote:Modi ji, if you cant do anything atleast ban Porki actors from working in India. Make work permits impossible to get. Ask them to sign a declaration condemning Pakistan on terror if they want to get an Indian visa. Applies for all Porkis who want to work in India.

Tamasha by the self proclaimed leaders from crapwood will be worth seeing.

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 25 Sep 2016 12:40

Rahul M wrote:
Gus wrote:
are you sure? do you have private info other than what was posted here?
...

That is confirmation enough.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 25 Sep 2016 13:11

Whats the use unless message is not delivered to douches it was meant to be? Unless LeT and HM folks visit BR, who will know?

US could have killed OBL and never revealed it, but then Porkies would have won the propaganda war in the long run. They chose to humiliate and burry them. Its a fact porkies can ever deny. Hell with all the strategic restraint.

This thread is all gossip unless something is released in public domain.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Sep 2016 13:18

Was watching this NDTV discussion today with Vikram Chandra and Air Chief FH Major , Col Ajai Shukla , BJP and Congress spokesperson.

Seem the gist of discussion is India option Militarily is not possible short of war where India has advantage , Gradual escalation Pakistan will respond equally , Economic Sanction will not work as no country will follow through if India urges them to ban economic co-operation , Diplomacy Pakistan will not respond , US wont do any thing to Pakistan as it has stake in Pakistan and Afghanistan .....the only option that will work seems to be do nothing at all

Never mind watch it to hear it

Uri Attack Fallout: What Are India's Options?

http://www.ndtv.com/video/news/the-big- ... eststories

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 25 Sep 2016 13:32

^^^
This shows the level of self confidence we have. Sometime back BRfiltes were arguing about our written N deterrence and how we will respond incase Porkies dare to use a TN.

Given such high intellect and deep thinking can we ever take such a step? Our babus logic will be "oh.. 500 soldiers do not amount to total porky annihilation or response with full force".

Meaning we will again show strategic restraint, which is another word for acting cowardly.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Sep 2016 13:39

Quite a few Lutyens babu firmly believe we are a large army and we can afford to lose a few soldiers here and there, war is not an option, overt retaliation is not an option. We should get used to Paksitan,
I have heard it personally.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 25 Sep 2016 13:46

If self-confidence short of option will work then I guess we can form a BRF brigade to tackle the Prokis. We have a lot of self confidence floating in this forum.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 25 Sep 2016 13:47

Strategic restraint is another word for miscalculating the costs Pak is imposing on us and gross misunderstanding how power is percieved and should be excercised. If we could eliminate cross border terrosism then we could reduce our army by atleast 200,000. This would allow us to equip and pay them properly (especially officers). Terrorism probably costs us 1-2% of GDP all included. We miss this.

Then in response diplomacy will not work if the world thinks that India cannot take care of its own interests. You see that all the time in life around you - the world helps those who help themselves. And lastly the PAK public will keep giving recruits to the fauj/jihadi unless they know that they are loosing and cannot hope to win.

Military response is the only solution to all these issues. And its a pity our decision makers dont get that.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 25 Sep 2016 13:49

IndraD wrote:Quite a few Lutyens babu firmly believe we are a large army and we can afford to lose a few soldiers here and there, war is not an option, overt retaliation is not an option. We should get used to Paksitan,
I have heard it personally.

Absolutely....so have I. This is the problem...our babus.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 25 Sep 2016 13:54

One wonders why we were forced to withdraw troops from the border after eyeball-to-eyeball following the parliament attack? That was planned as an *open* military option. Why did we back out?

The Porkis say we chickened out following their robust response. The BRF folklore suggests that the IT/Industrialists forced the GOI to back out. But is that the truth?

Undie headline "We Trust Our Army, Uri Attackers Will Be Punished: PM Modi On Mann Ki Baat". What he is signalling as openly as he can is that Army will take it revenge but in a localized manner. That clearly signals covert response.