India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

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Dumal
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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Dumal » 30 Sep 2016 16:58

We seem to have a horde of parasites that don't worry about niceties of taking time in stage 1 and jump right to stage 2 :evil:

http://atimes.com/2016/09/modis-travails-do-not-end-with-surgical-strikes-at-pakistan/ M. K. Bhadrakumar
http://www.dawn.com/news/1286902/modi-has-become-a-prisoner-of-his-own-image Sanjay Kumar

Stage 1: Just after the terrorist attack, they will show that they are in sync with the larger consensus of the country, which is to punish those who carried out the attack. See tweets of Shekhar, Barkha, and also debates just after the attack:

Stage 2: As the days pass, ....

India must have wasted countless attempts at trying to please these so-called experts on such matters of foreign policy, without realising that their agenda was not in the best interest of the nation. Sooner the masks fall off such people, sooner Indians realise that they are being fed propaganda in the name of unbiased opinions.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 30 Sep 2016 21:02

Now Russia too supports Indian ops and humiliatingly tells Pak
to fight terror with India.
However the rabid pigs of the Paki miltribe are hell-bent on a mil-cum-terror strike which they can claim later as a great victory over us to the brainwashed proles of the PSP.The Paki media is in such a state of denial and so vituperative against our PM,NSA chief,etc.that we must expect mil/terror strikes anywhere in India.Goa may be a target as our DM comes from there and is an intl fav tourist destination.

When the attacks come,our counteroffensive should be massive and immediate.The chief pig of the Paki army suppoded to retire shortly is dedperate to repair his dented reputation,wants an extension and has presidential ambitions too.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Singha » 30 Sep 2016 21:31

Minhaz Merchant ‏@minhazmerchant
@sudiptok1502 @ParamitaMaitra @nandy_chandan Nifty fall barely 2%, sensex fall just over 1%. Good resilience notwithstanding naysayers

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Singha » 30 Sep 2016 21:34

I am just waiting for revered founder to open his mouth on economic impact....wisely he has been silent so far

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby MohdKav » 30 Sep 2016 21:46

Barkha shivering in her pants. You should have seen how she was trying to stop that a grade ass that is Sudheendra Kulkarni

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Kashi » 01 Oct 2016 04:51

asgkhan wrote:Stage 2: As the days pass... Now Barkha, through her debate and others through articles and tweets will start talking about how we should show restraint and not hurt Pakistan. It is now when the minions will come out of their holes and start voicing their opinion in support of narrative being set by the likes of Barkha.

Now such minions will find themselves invited as guests on many TV shows. During stage 1, you will hardly find people in debates who will suggest restraint, because the media house was simply pandering to the national mood. In stage 2, someone like Jyoti Malhotra will now appear as an expert and talk about restraint and how a particular way of hurting Pakistan is not good. It is also the time when confused souls, like Rahul Kanwal, will follow the agenda of Barkha.


Dumal wrote:We seem to have a horde of parasites that don't worry about niceties of taking time in stage 1 and jump right to stage 2


Prophetic words indeed. Look who crawled out of the woodwork

Indus treaty must not be violated, says Medha Patkar

INDORE: Narmada Bachao Andolan leader Medha Patkar today said she was not in favour of India unilaterally scrapping the Indus Water Treaty with Pakistan.

In the wake of terror attack on Army base at Uri, some strategic thinkers have demanded that India scrap the water-sharing treaty to pressurise Pakistan.

"We are not in favour of breaking the Indus Water Treaty with the neighbouring country and launching a water war with it. We don't want to turn rivers into a battle-field," Patkar said here.

"Whether the issues related to sharing of water are international or inter-state, they should be solved through dialogue. These problems cannot be solved through politics," she said.
Nary a peep from you when Cauvery issue heated up, why this sudden itch?

Patkar was here to take part in a seminar on utility of large dams in India.

"Government constructs large dams saying that they would produce hydro-power for supplying electricity to villages and provide water to the rural areas and agriculture. But in reality benefits go to the capitalists," she said.

She demanded a review of the policy which favours big dams and immediate stoppage of ongoing construction of such projects.

"We are not saying that big dams are not useful for the country. But alternatives to them should be considered so that there is minimal displacement of people and least damage to the nature."

She also opposed centralised system of water management and said the decision-making should be left to the common people.


The nexus runs deep doesn't it?

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Aditya G » 01 Oct 2016 14:45

Col Subin Balakrishnan (retd), ex-CO Para (SF)

http://swarajyamag.com/defence/dynamics ... sts-theory

....

The problem is, India wants Pakistan to wake up and smell the proverbial coffee, while Pakistan is instead busy riding a high, snorting the poppy being cultivated along its northwestern frontiers! The roots of this fundamental fault line lies in the incorrect mapping of the stakeholders and precisely aligning the focus of our response to the specific stakeholder. In our overpowering desire to teach Pakistan a lesson, we are by default ignoring the concept of targeted messaging.

The prime stakeholder in the execution of this asymmetric war is the Pakistan Army, who is represented by the soldier manning a post along the LoC. The specific target, therefore, is not the Pakistani state, but a soldier who mans the posts along the LoC. Once this mapping has been understood and rationalised, a clear and credible, two-pronged approach to deter such misadventures can be brought into effect. These twin prongs executed in tandem, retain the potential to fundamentally alter the levels of this asymmetry.

Prong One

Every single infiltration attempt by the terrorists happens with the full knowledge, support and active indulgence of a specific post of the Pakistan army along the LoC. In fact, for an infiltration attempt to have even a reasonable chance of success, the active involvement of the Army post is a given. Each infiltration attempt - successful or unsuccessful- is routinely traced back to the specific Pakistani post that facilitated the militants, within a matter of days if not hours. Once this is confirmed, the Pakistani military should be reduced to rubble. This should be effected by bringing the full weight of our military resources at hand in that sub-sector of the LoC to bear upon that particular post. Small arms, rockets, short-range missiles; light medium and heavy artillery – everything. The effect of such a concentrated action, where a couple of thousand tonnes of TNT is delivered on a couple of small pickets or posts, each not larger than 20 ft by 30 ft, housing about 10 – 20 men in the space of about 24 hours can be incomprehensibly devastating.

To comprehend the effects of such a course of action is not easy. Not unless one has had the misfortune of having experienced such a merciless pounding. In fact, the next time folks on that posts are presented with the fait accompli of having to support an infiltration attempt, the support will be half-hearted at best. Chances are, the success rate of any infiltration attempt through that particular post for the next couple of months shall be significantly low. And that bout of collective philosophy imbibed by those 10-20 men is highly infectious through the ranks, at pickets and posts all along the 750 odd km that constitute the LoC. Trust me, hard learnt lessons on self-preservation travel lightning fast.

Prong Two

Every infiltration attempt or terrorist action in or near the vicinity of the LoC must be responded to with effective military raids similar to the one conducted last night, somewhere along the length of the LoC.

As a professional who has foot-slogged for long and done a thing or two to earn a living in these environments, I know for a fact that the LoC offers more than adequate opportunities for response not just by the Special Forces, but also by highly motivated and skilled Infantry units, straddling both the tactical and operational levels. Make no mistake - each of these actions are much more than just 'ego massages'. The technical and tactical skills of our Special Forces and the will and wherewithal to effect short, sharp actions across the LoC is tested and proven. What we have lacked is the political spine and the institutional bandwidth to effect such responses in suitable windows of time and space to amplify their impact on the one hand and the resilience to shape consequence management within reasonable proportions on the other.

In terms of deterrence, the application of such a consistent policy to firmly and rapidly effect military response is what shall define the character. Each response by itself may not account for much - it should instead be viewed as a sum of its parts. The efficacy of the consistent message delivered by the execution of this twin-pronged strategy of sharp and swift military action as a response mechanism over a period of time is very powerful in shaping and leveraging deterrence as a policy tool.

The naysayers and apologists shall decry these options as ‘high risk’ options that could spin out of control. To them, I ask – what is the low-risk option preferable to them? Another 18 soldiers being butchered as they sleep in their tents? There shall also be the armchair alarmists who shall remind us that the Pakistani state shall pull the nuclear trigger. That is a bluff that must be called. The nuclear escalation matrix is a carefully considered response structure built to be employed when the existence of the country is endangered. Not for every shallow breach, tactical or operational penetration along the LoC.

Of course, there will be retaliation. India must be prepared to absorb the retaliatory attempt of a strike at its assets along the LoC that is almost inevitable. But that will only serve to turn the narrative to the nation’s advantage. India should and must deny the Pakistani terror complex a free run and it must get out of its siege mentality. Instead of being constantly reactive, India must prevent Pakistan’s asymmetric warfare strategies through proactive action. We must fight them on our terms, and play to our strengths.

As Brahma Chellaney once said, our response to the strategy of death by a thousand cuts cannot be to survive by a thousand bandages!

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Singha » 01 Oct 2016 17:12

All indian tv channels will be banned in tsp from oct 15

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Pratyush » 01 Oct 2016 18:20

Good time for tsp to ban bhaiwood as well.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Sicanta » 01 Oct 2016 18:32

Singha wrote:All indian tv channels will be banned in tsp from oct 15


They won't be able to block AIR signal.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby pankajs » 01 Oct 2016 18:43

Bakis have banned bhaiwood till the *situation improves*. The revenue that they collect from Bakis is the reason for all this bhaichara apart from bhai.

I say they should ban bhaiwood forever.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Singha » 01 Oct 2016 19:38

Deep ad intrusive rear end probes need to be launched by IB IT and DRI on bhaiwood producers having links via doobye to kraachi and lahaur gangs

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby anupmisra » 01 Oct 2016 19:55

Singha wrote:All indian tv channels will be banned in tsp from oct 15


Why wait till October 15? October 2 is a better start date. Giving peace a chance? Hain?

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Singha » 01 Oct 2016 21:31


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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 02 Oct 2016 01:16

BBC.China's B'putra dam and diverting flow of water to India and BDesh.Tell Medha Patkar to go to Beijing and fight the Chinese!
Anyway,China is hell-bent on doing this and can kiss goodwill with both India and BDesh goodbye.

We should similarly stop Indus waters to Pak,have genuine reasons for the same and impose eco sanctions/ban on all Chinese and Paki goods.

The Pakis are supposed to have relocated over 300 pigs into civilian areas to prevent further attacks.The chief bandicoot due to retire soon will have to make his final move ,if he is seeking an extension,which may involve his own forces as he has lost so much of face.The Paki populace will start questioning the denials of our ops in the faceof so much of intl. support for India and the contradictory statements of its politicos squealing like stuck pigs!

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby jamwal » 02 Oct 2016 23:15

Another attack on Army camp in Baramulla ?

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby GShankar » 02 Oct 2016 23:19

Not sure but heard there is movement on both sides. Rambha's make up crew are being asked to go with her for the photo op and the crew is shopping some woolen jackets. And heard Rambha has been officially permitted to take some new diwali presents for her audience.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2016 00:19

Basta*d pigs strike at 2230 hrs at the HQ of RR camp at Baramulla. Supposed to be a jt.IA/RR camp.Security not breached.Pigs kept outside the camp peremiter.3 IA jawans and a few RR jawans injured.May be one martyr.2 pigs reported exterminated.Army QR team swung into action.

This attack was thwarted but it now signifies a "no-holds-barred" proxy war against India by Pak.Infiltration attempts ad nauseun. Pak's "terror corps" has begun to wage open war against India.Past time for us to heavy hit across the border.

PS:One BSJF jawan martyred other severely wounded.HM,COAS,etc.informed .

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby ashish raval » 03 Oct 2016 00:41

It is high time to redesign the camps and install snipers and CCTV's at strategic locations inside the camps. This should help eliminate pigs faster

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2016 00:50

Firing inside the camp now.Some pigs may have got in situ still fluid.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby chanakya_neeti » 03 Oct 2016 00:52

Northern Command Confirmed that situation contained. https://twitter.com/NorthernComd_IA/sta ... 6786442241

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby jagga » 03 Oct 2016 00:57

This is routine terror attack, so no need to worked up. Continuous terror incidents and our counter attacks will keep the LOC hot. And one fine day (that day is not too far), Boom! POK gone from Paki hands!

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Khalsa » 03 Oct 2016 01:07

Cross Posting from Strike on POK thread as it is locked.

Guddu wrote:I think images and videos should be shown to all, with GPS locations of the camps. This is for the benefit of paki awam. Rawheel may deny it....news will leak, people will talk. At the very least it throws a wrench in Islamabad Bob's spiel (ISPR's Bajwa). Infact, the timing of the release of pics/videos could be used as a negotiation tool for release of the captured soldier. Release the soldier now and the videos will be released after rawheel has retired...otherwise the release of videos will be another slap on his face. Rawheel can deny authenticity of the videos, but a neutral party can verify authenticity...


Guddu

yes I see your point but there is merit in what NaMO is is thinking if you look at his actions.
His first tweet after the raid was about A business forum or something pragati maidan.

He is not gloating and not making any threatening moves as well.
Why ?

1. He is allowing Pakistan an excellent opportunity to de-escalate.
2. Remember COAS PakArmy retires soon, you don't want to drive him against the wall where he is forced to do something dramatic before retires.
No I am not scared ...read on eplease.
Remember this one has bad blood with Prime Minister Sharif and displays his machoism quite well. You wanna encourage this.
3. Right now, if we release the images and videos , we will unify PakArmy and PakGovt by providing them a single enemy --> India.
Lets not do this. Instead let them fight over who left the door open that allowed us to get through. Make them lie to their own people yet again.
4. Remember its equally as important to sow the seeds of destruction quietly as it is to kick the front door and drumbeat

LAST NOT LEAST ... the most important thing. Hear me carefully.

5.
India and United States of Amreeka have a self declared policy of No First Use of Nuclear Weapons.
Cool.
This holds us in good stead and potrays a mature nuclear power amongst the world.
Pakistan has a self-declared policy of First use (WOW !!) once it feels its territorial integrity is threatened.
(makes them look like incompetent fools who will press the button once their soldiers can't fight hard enough).

Now many Indians Military officers and intellectuals have advocated exploiting the bubble or the gap that exists between the current situation (state of peace with terrorism, lets call this P_X and the the point where Pakistan feels its about to lose the integrity of its nation and someone please press the button. Lets call this point P_Z

However the disadvantage with this ... you don't know the difference between PX and PZ.
The irony is ... even the pakistanis don't know where P_Z is.

Is it when we cutover Rahim yar Khan but they win in Punjab.
Is it when they win nothing and we grab 5 kms in Gurjrat.

No one knows ?

Enter the current Government...

I believe they are on a mission NOT to learn where P_Z is ... but inform Pakistan (in reality TEACH THEM) where P_Z lives.

The Surgical Strike and lack of any drum beating by us is a way to increase the gap between P_O and P_Z.
The more Pakistans become used to this , the less the spectre of nuclear threshold (aka P_Z) being reached.
And you can continue increasing the Gap betweeb P_O and P_Z every year.

I do this with my two German Shephards all the time.
They used to jumping in my legs all the time when food would arrive.
However with the use of almighty clicker and some training I have increased the time they sit away Calmly from the Food Bowl while I load it up etc etc
Then they wait with salivial flood in their mouths until I wave my hand which signals them to begin eating.
Its all about conditioning.

This is a excellent change of strategy that no GOVT has thought or done in over 60 years of our history.
We have adhered to their Lakshman Rekha more than they have adhered to ours.
and every time they breach our Rekha we draw(redraw) it again and citing the same threat.

The current Govt has done away with Lakshman Rekhas and said if you touch us we will enter your house, spank your wife , kiss your sister and enjoy in your bister and leave quietly. Above all we will condition you to it so won't feel bad either.


Remember its all about the teaching the Pakistanis where their P_Z is....
and use the ever increasing gap between P_O and P_Z to place our surgical strikes, destroy bunker by bunker and move the Line of Control Westwards etc.

Thats what the Chinese do to us ... inching forward slowly and taking away our land ... inch by inch.


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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Bheeshma » 03 Oct 2016 01:24

Cheenis only stopped when GoI backed IA and let them give a jhappad. Cheenis don't have capability or will to start a war for pakis. On the other hand PA doesn't have the capability to give IA a Jhapad only pin pricks for which the new normal is to make them pay 10X.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2016 01:28

V.sad.3 BSF jawans now martyred.4-6 terrorists involved.2 pigs suspected cornered within the camp.IA waiting for first light to resume ops.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Bheeshma » 03 Oct 2016 01:30

Kill these 6 and then kill the ones in newly moved camps along with PA posts.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby sivab » 03 Oct 2016 01:36

Philip wrote:V.sad.3 BSF jawans now martyred.4-6 terrorists involved.2 pigs suspected cornered within the camp.IA waiting for first light to resume ops.


Don't spread false rumors. See DG BSF statement above posted by me. No BSF jawan was martyred. Both pigs are dead. SItuation under control.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Guddu » 03 Oct 2016 01:39

Khalsa sahab, I understand your point (BTW, I too have a working line german shepherd!)...I guess as a non-military person dil mange more....

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Rahul M » 03 Oct 2016 01:45

Khalsa ji, very nice analysis with one nitpick. USA does not have a no first use policy, AFAIK the only other country that does is PRC.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2016 02:28

Siv.media channel quotes a BSF jawan who was injured.Names also mentoned.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby sivab » 03 Oct 2016 02:34

Philipji, my objection was to "3 jawans martyred". BSF_India handle has acknowledged only one.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby shravanp » 03 Oct 2016 03:09


Karthik S
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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Karthik S » 03 Oct 2016 03:28

Rahul M wrote:Khalsa ji, very nice analysis with one nitpick. USA does not have a no first use policy, AFAIK the only other country that does is PRC.


Looks like countries with some insecured feeling only have NFU policy.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Sumeet » 03 Oct 2016 04:05

Nice documentary on test to get into Indian Army Special force:


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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Khalsa » 03 Oct 2016 04:20

Hi Guddu nice to know about the GSDs.
I have a boy (1 year) and a girl (3 years old)

Indeed you have the right to Mango more. And thats what you got with this Govt.
More innovative thinking and a more workable strategy than the previously compromised governments.

@Rahul M. Thank you sir... good to know about that.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby shiv » 03 Oct 2016 07:32

Interviews and assemments of soldiers' mental state after war has revealed that artillery is among the most scary things to face. Heavy mortar has a range of 6 km, Our 120 mm guns have a rangeof 20 pls km and Bofors/155 mm 30 plus km. So anything within that range can be pounded and powdered.

Technically the 3-6 km infiltration by our paras and ghataks could have been avoided and artillery used instead. Disadvantages of that are
  • Shitistan would simply have accused us of shelling and would have denied casualties and showed media pictures of houses that they probably blow up themselves
  • The nation was baying for blood and that thisrt could not be assuaged by artillery fire
  • Soldiers are trained to avenge any attacks and the surgical strike would have served as a great morale booster esp in Dogra and Bihar regts. I can only imagin the stories being exchanged in the mess hall about Paki jihadis quivering with terror and screaming for mercy before being shot

But revenge for Baramulla IMO will be artillery fire. Some part of Pakistan occupied Kashmir will be getting flattened as I write..

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Shaktimaan » 03 Oct 2016 07:39

It's true Shivji.

Over the years, we've been hearing about Pakistan's Red Lines. If India this, if India does that, the mythical Paki Red Lines will be crossed and they will bring out the nukes.

Thr game changer is that India also has Red Lines now. Let's see what those lines are. If the Paki terrorists attack, but our forces repel the attack with low casualties, will that also invite massive retaliation? I sure hope it does.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Kashi » 03 Oct 2016 07:44

There seems to be little news coming from the front. Either media and their sources have been clammed or the operation is over (or in a lull) and the details would be announced soon.

Hopefully, all the piglets were dispatched with minimal losses of our own.

Much like anti-retrovirals need to be taken continuously, Bakis need a continuous dose of jhapad, a 3-4 day antibiotic dose will simply not suffice.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby aditya » 03 Oct 2016 08:34

shiv wrote:But revenge for Baramulla IMO will be artillery fire. Some part of Pakistan occupied Kashmir will be getting flattened as I write..


If civilian casualties occur in PoJK as a result of Indian operations, can that serve to dampen anti-Pak sentiment among PoJK populace as part of the game?


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