India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

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Kashi
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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Kashi » 03 Oct 2016 08:50

aditya wrote:
shiv wrote:But revenge for Baramulla IMO will be artillery fire. Some part of Pakistan occupied Kashmir will be getting flattened as I write..


If civilian casualties occur in PoJK as a result of Indian operations, can that serve to dampen anti-Pak sentiment among PoJK populace as part of the game?


Well the last time it had a good effect when our shelling in Neelam Valley turned the locals there against the piglets as they blamed them for inviting our wrath into that area. The residents especially women took to streets to demand that the piglets be ushered away from there. This was in 2003 I believe, just before the LoC ceasefire..

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby uddu » 03 Oct 2016 09:05

Dhanush and Pinaka-II's will be a game changer with precision strikes on Pak army camps. Why only in POK, it could be all across the border and anything Paki Armed need to be hit within 60 km from the border. There must be all clear upto 60km. or All clear of Pakistan itself.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby shiv » 03 Oct 2016 09:20

Pakis will be looking for a "public victory" now because despite denials the Surgical strikes have been seen as a morale uplifting public victory by Indians. The Baramulla attack is only the first of many - the army knows that well. If these is a successful attack on a civilian area, LeT will celebrate, Pakistan will deny but both will se a victory. that will once again give India a handle to respond.

IMO Modis apparent reticence to retaliate allowed Indians and the world to see how much Pakis were provoking so when the retaliation came there was more congratulating than condemnation. There will be no major, visible, publicly announced retaliation to Baramulla or similar small attacks which are clearly looking like angry sour grapes of pakis

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Deans » 03 Oct 2016 09:21

shiv wrote:Interviews and assemments of soldiers' mental state after war has revealed that artillery is among the most scary things to face. Heavy mortar has a range of 6 km, Our 120 mm guns have a rangeof 20 pls km and Bofors/155 mm 30 plus km. So anything within that range can be pounded and powdered.

Technically the 3-6 km infiltration by our paras and ghataks could have been avoided and artillery used instead. Disadvantages of that are
  • Shitistan would simply have accused us of shelling and would have denied casualties and showed media pictures of houses that they probably blow up themselves
  • The nation was baying for blood and that thisrt could not be assuaged by artillery fire
  • Soldiers are trained to avenge any attacks and the surgical strike would have served as a great morale booster esp in Dogra and Bihar regts. I can only imagin the stories being exchanged in the mess hall about Paki jihadis quivering with terror and screaming for mercy before being shot

But revenge for Baramulla IMO will be artillery fire. Some part of Pakistan occupied Kashmir will be getting flattened as I write..


We should look at our artillery targetting HQ's of Pak army formations (that is an appropriate counter to any of our army camps being attacked). Unlike terrorist camps they have the advantage of being fixed structures which are always manned. It would also target Pak officers rather than expendable jihadis. A Pinka/ Smerch strike should be considered even if the target is within 20 km of our artillery, for the psychological effect it would have.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby ramana » 03 Oct 2016 09:22

Folks please use the existing thread for Baramulla attack. Thanks will transfer the related posts there. Ramana

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6510&start=1320

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby habal » 03 Oct 2016 09:23

Is this their phuddu response ??
No big strikes against big cities so that we can destroy training camps in PoK and ISI hq aabpara ?

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby habal » 03 Oct 2016 09:39

Invoke the name of the devil himself and go after them. Whenever you go after powers that wield influence through evil, either one propitiates the devil and asks him to be on our side or if one is so powerful themselves they ask the devil to stand aside and not protect his minions or he suffer the consequences along with them.

Grit your teeth for once and solve this issue once and for all. They will not dare to come back again.

And hang the heads of dead pakis from the wagah border gate so that they do not cast an evil eye in this direction. Maybe if I become prime minister. :rotfl:

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby symontk » 03 Oct 2016 09:44

habal wrote:Is this their phuddu response ??
No big strikes against big cities so that we can destroy training camps in PoK and ISI hq aabpara ?


No strikes against cities are to happen, however I believe it will be done by locals in India. But the current flavour is to attack mil installations especially in Kashmir to highlight the so called HR violations. Pak thinks that after some time nations will turn around and force India to talks

That is why I was not supportive of surgical strikes. It is better to start a low fledged war in those circumstances. Apart from that crossing like that gives them encouragement and license to do the same. The thing is that we should discourage them like they were from 1971 to 1983. That can only be achieved by offensive ops

All the more important, all these support from other countries are fickle and should not be relied upon for any kind of policy. But any way these are all 20:20 hindisghts and GOI knows more than any of us

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby habal » 03 Oct 2016 09:49

Until western alliance is anti-China for the moment and for sometimes into future. They will not pester us.
all these so-called United Nations and 'international opinion' is nothing but opinions of western lackeys.

Also then GCC countries are also with us.
They do not like China in their neighbourhood because they consider China to be Iran's extension.
bas phir kya .. hammer the pakis, call their bluff. Destroy their army and army related establishment. Humiliate them. Disgrace them. Ridicule them.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Oct 2016 10:03

The Pakis are expecting the US to be policeman and mediators. So far the Obama administration has resisted. When HRC comes in, it will again be business as usual that we saw in the 1990s where Pak == India. This is the best time to start a full scale destruction of Pak military CCC and assets. No other way about it.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Oct 2016 10:04

habal wrote:Invoke the name of the devil himself and go after them. Whenever you go after powers that wield influence through evil, either one propitiates the devil and asks him to be on our side or if one is so powerful themselves they ask the devil to stand aside and not protect his minions or he suffer the consequences along with them.

Grit your teeth for once and solve this issue once and for all. They will not dare to come back again.

And hang the heads of dead pakis from the wagah border gate so that they do not cast an evil eye in this direction. Maybe if I become prime minister. :rotfl:


+1

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Gyan » 03 Oct 2016 10:53

Shiv is right. The primary instrument of retaliation has to be Artillery and MBRLs. But we need lighter Single or Dual rocket MBRLs mounted on 4x4 vehicles for rapid deployment without advance warning. Numerous nations have come out with such systems. Supposedly Pinaka-2 guided with 90km range is under development. We need to mount such MBRLs on light vehicles and fire them under observation by SF teams inserted clandestinely in Pakistan. We have to avoid using SF as heavy infantry.

Prahaar has to be used as instrument to hit lee side of mountains. Prahaar order and deployment is being avoided by Military (to help Brahmos lobby?).

Lastly our holding of NVGs is super duper pathetic which has been again and again demonstrated, now by Pathankot, URI, Baramullah. We don't even have 10% of desired holding. Hence night fighting capacity of our infantry is practically ZERO.

Shiv Artillery works well only against mass formations. Assuming 1-2% accuracy, 10km range, around 100 rounds will be required to take out a bunker or someone hiding in a trench as a direct hit would be required. Also mobilisation issues warning to other side. Therefore perhaps SF Attacks were used by India.

Hence we need HHTI, NVDs plus guided MBRLs mounted on light vehicles for long drawn attrition war.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Yagnasri » 03 Oct 2016 11:06

The attack made had a serious advantage of surprise with it and it worked well. Next time it will not be there. So maybe we need to look into a general punishing retaliation than a specific attack or terror camps. We will always be within the attacking distance of paki forces in LOC. Just kill them is a significant number when even there is a terror attack. Use snipers, mortars etc. From what I understand we were doing all that.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 03 Oct 2016 11:20

Preparing for the worst.MOD mtg servcie chiefs,media reports.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/India ... ed_for_WAR
Indian Army asks forces to be prepared for WAR
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Sunday, October 02, 2016

Highlights
Army Chief visited J&K to assess military preparedness, a meeting was held on LoC situation
The review meeting was held after Army's surgical strike across the LoC
The Army made an "earnest appeal to the people of Kashmir to ensure calm and peace in these sensitive times"
Amid heightened tension with Pakistan, the Army on Saturday asked the forces to be "prepared for any eventuality" and maintain "very high level of alert" as Army Chief General Dalbir Singh visited Jammu and Kashmir to assess the military preparedness.

The situation on the Line of Control (LoC) and hinterland was discussed at a meeting held by Northern Army Commander Lt Gen D S Hooda and attended by Srinagar-based Corps Commander Lt Gen Satish Dua, state Chief Secretary B R Sharma and DGP K Rajendra Kumar.

"During the meeting, Lt Gen Hooda stressed upon the need for maintaining a very high level of alert and vigil and to remain prepared for any eventuality," an Army spokesman said.

"The Chinar Corps Commander, Lt Gen Satish Dua reviewed the entire gamut of operational readiness with the Army Commander and briefed him on all security measures along the LoC as well as the hinterland," the spokesman added.

The review of security was undertaken against the backdrop of surgical strike carried out by the Indian Army against terror camps across the LoC two days back.

The Army made an "earnest appeal to the people of Kashmir to ensure calm and peace in these sensitive times and strengthen the government and security agencies in meeting the challenges emanating from across the borders".

Earlier, Lt Gen Hooda briefed the Army Chief at Northern Command Headquarters at Udhampur about the overall security situation along the borders. The Army Chief then visited the Kashmir valley.

Lt Gen Hooda and Lt Gen Dua also called on Governor N N Vohra and apprised him about the overall security situation in the state and preparedness of the Army.

Lt Gen Hooda assured the Governor of complete synergy amongst all the agencies towards facing any kind of security challenges.

He also conveyed his compliments to 15 Corps for the high degree of professionalism shown by all ranks involved in the planning and execution of surgical strikes across the LoC.

Meanwhile, a Raj Bhawan spokesman said the Governor congratulated the Northern Army Commander and all his officers and men concerned for their outstanding success in executing a crucial counter-terrorism operation across the Line of Control in the areas of responsibility of the 15 and 16 Corps.

"The Governor particularly complimented Lt Gen Hooda for the brilliant efficiency with which he had planned and carried through this milestone initiative," the spokesman added.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby ramana » 03 Oct 2016 21:05

Mort Walker wrote:The Pakis are expecting the US to be policeman and mediators. So far the Obama administration has resisted. When HRC comes in, it will again be business as usual that we saw in the 1990s where Pak == India. This is the best time to start a full scale destruction of Pak military CCC and assets. No other way about it.



26/11 began with Obama and NaMo response is with Obama still in office.

TSP miscalculated very badly. They thought by pulling off another attack on an Army camp instead of a civilian target like Mumbai they can get away. As I said in the Pakistan: managing Failure thread, all their redlines are erased and they are in state of shcock. even their supporters abandoned them after realizing this. Only China is still with them and for how long we have to see. Right now TSPA is like that Prince in Bhaubali walking with head cut off. Its matter of time for it to fall and break up.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Rudradev » 03 Oct 2016 21:38

Ramana, that is incorrect.

G W Bush was in office when 26/11 occurred. In fact G W Bush's first response (see Obama's Wars by Bob Woodward) to the 26/11 attacks was "we need to get everyone together and stop India from going to war". Shuja Ahmad Pasha was brought to Washington to explain the attacks, and said that while there were people involved connected to the ISI, the operation was a "rogue operation" that was not authorized by ISI.

G W Bush personally conveyed this line to GOI. G W Bush staked his personal credibility with India, saying he had absolutely unimpeachable intelligence information that 26/11 was a rogue operation and ISI/Pakistani state was not responsible. Of course as we all know, his intelligence information came not only from Shuja Pasha of ISI, but David Coleman Headley who was on the payroll of DEA and FBI, and who had masterminded the 26/11 attacks while an employee of the G W Bush administration.

Honestly there is no comparison between how Pak-Pasand the Republican Bush administration was and the relative neutrality of Obama.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Gyan » 03 Oct 2016 21:58

Even after 26/11 we had a window of few days but it was allowed to drift away.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby GShankar » 03 Oct 2016 22:10

Rudradev wrote:Ramana, that is incorrect.

G W Bush was in office when 26/11 occurred. In fact G W Bush's first response (see Obama's Wars by Bob Woodward) to the 26/11 attacks was "we need to get everyone together and stop India from going to war". Shuja Ahmad Pasha was brought to Washington to explain the attacks, and said that while there were people involved connected to the ISI, the operation was a "rogue operation" that was not authorized by ISI.

G W Bush personally conveyed this line to GOI. G W Bush staked his personal credibility with India, saying he had absolutely unimpeachable intelligence information that 26/11 was a rogue operation and ISI/Pakistani state was not responsible. Of course as we all know, his intelligence information came not only from Shuja Pasha of ISI, but David Coleman Headley who was on the payroll of DEA and FBI, and who had masterminded the 26/11 attacks while an employee of the G W Bush administration.

Honestly there is no comparison between how Pak-Pasand the Republican Bush administration was and the relative neutrality of Obama.


I agree it was GW-B at the office. However a bigger factor imo was who was Indian PM. Probably that is the only thing that matters irrespective of who was(is) potus.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Khalsa » 04 Oct 2016 00:03

^^^^ Exackry

why do we look at the gora man to fix our problems.
He is POTUS and not PMoIndia

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Rudradev » 04 Oct 2016 00:40

No question MMS was not Modi. And that the man in 7RCR contributes exponentially more towards India having a successful Paki-vardhana strategy than the man (or woman) in the White House.

Let us not confuse issues. It is not about asking anyone else to solve our problems, but identifying the gora man who in fact contributed to making our problems worse.

The issue here is that GWB was a very Paki-pasand president when it came to urging "restraint" on India (intervening personally to do this even after 26/11). This was in 2008 when it had become obvious to the Pentagon that Pakis were playing a full-scale double game with the Taliban and were directly responsible for the deaths of 1000s of US soldiers in Afghanistan.

Obama also did not come to power and suddenly become India-pasand. However, he was far less Pak-pasand than GWB... greatly increased the number and frequency of drone strikes on Pakistan, had OBL lifted out of Abbottabad. I don't think he is "pro-India" at all, but certainly less Pak-pasand than the Republican Bush White House. As far as I know he has not directly called any Indian leader to "urge restraint" and save the Baki MuNNa from retribution. Even when we did act, he has not issued a word of reproach.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Ananth » 04 Oct 2016 00:43

The new normal after India’s surgical strikes

The surgical strikes that the Indian Army conducted across the Line of Control (LoC) last week had two broad objectives which had to be achieved while adhering to two constraining factors. The first objective was to soothe public opinion and the second to institute some kind of deterrence for cross-border terror attacks. Of the constraints, the first was to contain escalation as far as possible and, the second, to manage global opinion.

The very fact of making such surgical strikes public was essential to soothe public opinion. The information could have just been relayed by the director general of military operations (DGMO) to his Pakistani counterpart without making a public announcement. But the decision was taken at the highest political levels to release the information to the public because it was now becoming essential to inform the citizens that India is not entirely helpless in responding to frequent and increasingly audacious terror attacks. The political dividend that could be reaped from the public announcement would have also played a part in the decision.

The second aim of instituting some kind of deterrence for terrorist attacks could not have been achieved in just one operation. Pakistan has a long history—going back to the year of its formation in 1947—of using ‘non-state actors’ to achieve its extra-territorial ambitions while maintaining plausible deniability. Launching a few surgical strikes to eliminate a handful of terror launch pads is hardly enough to achieve the desired long-term deterrence. This is a much longer-term project and will involve a multitude of economic, diplomatic and military means.


It is true that previous such operations were not announced and hence had a de-escalation package inbuilt into them. But a new normal has been found. Pakistan’s denial of the strikes has allowed them a face-saver. India has shown no hurry in releasing video footages of the strikes as that would force escalation. As Pakistan has kept probing India’s threshold of strategic restraint, now India can probe Pakistan’s threshold for remaining in denial. This will introduce a larger number of variables into Rawalpindi’s calculation.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby GShankar » 04 Oct 2016 01:26

Rudradev wrote:No question MMS was not Modi. And that the man in 7RCR contributes exponentially more towards India having a successful Paki-vardhana strategy than the man (or woman) in the White House.

Let us not confuse issues. It is not about asking anyone else to solve our problems, but identifying the gora man who in fact contributed to making our problems worse.

The issue here is that GWB was a very Paki-pasand president when it came to urging "restraint" on India (intervening personally to do this even after 26/11). This was in 2008 when it had become obvious to the Pentagon that Pakis were playing a full-scale double game with the Taliban and were directly responsible for the deaths of 1000s of US soldiers in Afghanistan.

Obama also did not come to power and suddenly become India-pasand. However, he was far less Pak-pasand than GWB... greatly increased the number and frequency of drone strikes on Pakistan, had OBL lifted out of Abbottabad. I don't think he is "pro-India" at all, but certainly less Pak-pasand than the Republican Bush White House. As far as I know he has not directly called any Indian leader to "urge restraint" and save the Baki MuNNa from retribution. Even when we did act, he has not issued a word of reproach.


I would say there is no one potus in particular who was/is pro-india. They have been historically pro-paki due to cold war bonhomie. Based on what I know, I thought NDA govt. managed relationships well post pokhran and GWB times were better than Bill's times. Not the case?

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Rudradev » 04 Oct 2016 01:56

Better than Bill's times in terms of lifting the hopeless sanctions Bill placed on India after '98 tests, yes. Better in terms of India getting the IUCNCA nuclear deal, still debatable. Better in terms of Pakistan, NO. Pakistan army got a lot more military and financial assistance post-2001 than during the Clinton years, and ended up with far better conventional military strength in 2008 than towards the end of Bill Clinton's term. Also, as we can see, GWB definitely distinguished between "bad terrorists" (who harm the West) and "good terrorists" (who serve the interests of their al-lies). If practice in not in rhetoric. Anyway, OT here.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Khalsa » 04 Oct 2016 02:52

There are NO friends, just interests

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby arun » 04 Oct 2016 07:27

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Confirmation that the “Surgical Strikes” carried out by India was indeed a Boots on the Ground Cross LoC raid.

Confirmation delivered by M Venkaiah Naidu, Minister for Information & Broadcasting.

Confirmation is welcomed.

Minister Naidu’s use of the Telegu saying “A thief bitten by a scorpion will never cry or shout inside your house but bears the pain” to describe the Islamic Republic of Pakistan was apt.

Pakistan is like a thief bitten by a scorpion, cannot cry out even when in pain: M Venkaiah Naidu
By Aman Sharma & Vasudha Venugopal, ET Bureau | Oct 04, 2016, 07.11 AM IST Post a Comment

Why were the surgical strikes required?
Why were the surgical strikes required?

Pakistan has gone too far. It has been aiding, abetting, funding and training terrorists for long; it’s now an international secret. Many times we tried to counsel Pakistan, but it hasn’t walked the talk.

There have been 20 intrusion attempts. Then Pathankot, then Uri. People of the country were very upset. PM Modi, contrary to his image (everybody says he is very hard, etc), invited heads of states of all the Saarc nations to his swearing-in ceremony. He went to Lahore, an unprecedented event, and met all the members of Nawaz Sharif’s family.

Sharif had such a good relation with Modi…the last call he made from his operation table in London was to Modi, asking for his good wishes.

But what happened subsequently needs investigation. Whether it is Panama papers or Pak military…the moment Nawaz came back from London, he changed language and then these incidents happened.

So public anger is a factor?

The government gave a free hand to the Army that something preventive has to be done.

The wish of the ordinary people was that India should go and hit the terrorist camps. But there are limitations. Keeping that in mind, the Army made a surgical strike on the terrorist launch pads. It is the Pakistan Army which escorts terrorists and launches them into India. People are happy. People’s sentiment has been respected.

But Pakistan is denying the strikes...

There is a saying in Telugu: A thief bitten by a scorpion will never cry or shout inside your house but bears the pain. That is what is happening to Pakistan. So it is denying it.

Listen to the reaction of Pak defence minister on the very first day. He said it is aggression, then he said two Pakistani soldiers have died. Now he is saying nothing happened. Sharif said it was aggression. They don’t know whether to talk about it or keep quiet.

Is it because they are humiliated?

Naturally. They got it back. It was a foot operation done by the Army, no choppers were used. Our Army went 2-4 km inside and destroyed the launch pads. Pakistan knows the casualty figure. It is the same Indian Army as 10-20 years ago. But you need political clearance too.

PM cautioned Pakistan in Kozhikode.

Why not make video evidence public?

Let us wait. People of India and international community believe Indian government. You can never convince Pakistan. Pakistan has decided not to get convinced. Appropriate action will be taken by the defence ministry at an opportune time. No foreign country has contradicted us, no one sympathises with Pakistan.

Surgical strikes were done earlier too but not made public...

No problem. But this government has sent a signal to Pakistan and the international community. US killing Osama Bin Laden inside Pakistan made it clear that it was sheltering terrorists.

Now, international community is believing us because they know that Pakistan has done it earlier too.

We are not war-mongers. It was a pre-emptive strike. Even in old times, Ram and Ravana fought but Ram did not claim Lanka. We did not claim Bangladesh. We want Pakistan to behave — you take care of your country, we take care of ours.

Pakistani media claims there were no funerals or bodies on their side of the LoC...

It is a pity that Pakistan is not recognising its own citizens. That speaks of the current situation in Pakistan, a rogue state.

Even if Pakistan shouts a 1,000 times, it can never think of getting Kashmir. Not an inch will be given. We did not cross into Pakistan by crossing LoC. PoK is not a part of Pakistan, it is a part of India.

What should be the role of media?

Everyone is a citizen first, they have a responsibility towards the nation. National interest is people’s interest. I expect media to be objective, and, also, it should keep national interest in mind. Some people are aggressively criticising India on TV...

We are a free nation and believe in freedom of expression. It is for those people to think what they are doing. They are harming the country’s interest. In a way, they are serving Pak interest.

What about Pakistani film stars working here?

In normal times, there is no problem as art has no barrier. When such a situation arises, these people should keep local sentiments in mind. I am not advocating that they should be sent back.

If they condemn the Uri attack?

That will really help the situation.


From Economic Times:

Clicky

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 04 Oct 2016 11:01

Russia supports India's surgical strikes tells Pak off.So Pak is now completely isolated with its "iron" bumchum China too rather silent on the issue.'WE must widen our range of strike options including those who facilitated the 26/11 Bombay attacks,Paki mil installations where they trained,set off from ,etc.You get my drift.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 660025.cms

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby arun » 04 Oct 2016 11:46

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Spokesperson of the Dynastic Nehru-Gandhi family led Congress Party, discloses that the Indian Army carried out cross LoC raids in 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2013.

Congress confirms noiseless surgical strikes

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby prashanth » 04 Oct 2016 12:41

arun wrote:X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Spokesperson of the Dynastic Nehru-Gandhi family led Congress Party, discloses that the Indian Army carried out cross LoC raids in 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2013.

Congress confirms noiseless surgical strikes


Happy to know that our forces have punished the enemy before. Credits to former PM Mr. Singh for this. Nevertheless, it was a strategic blunder to not publicise these raids since it gave an impression (within India and outside) that we are timid and pak could get away with its treachery. Pak military thrives on bolated ego and its larger than life image in the minds of their citizens. This has to be pierced and deflated at every available oppurtunity. Their public must be made to understand that their military is nothing more than a rag-tag bandit group that air bombs its citizens, disowns its fallen men, uniformed or otherwise and leaves their bodies to rot. From the look of things, crossing LOC and flattening their camps is easier than bringing home the truth to their people, since their media is tightly controlled by military and dissidents end up lifeless in gutters. At present, pak military enjoys the aura of invincibility in the minds of their public, who are themselves anti-India by and large. In the minds of an average pak citizen, their country itself is an entity built around the military. The civilian government is a sideshow or a fall-guy everytime something bad happens to them. Once the cloak of invincibility is removed, the resulting hopelessness and crisis of identity will likely make them give up their antics.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Philip » 04 Oct 2016 17:09

Yes,keeping quiet about them gave the Pakis the wrong signal,that India was ashamed to acknowledge such actions! Had even one such action been acknowledged it would've had a signal effect.The acquisition of drones/UCAVs with significant stand-off capoability or even stand-off missiles launched by IAF assets would force the Pakis to locate their pigstys further away from the border.This would complicate their logistics.

The use of stand-off missiles launched from our side of the Intl. border and anywhere in POK-across the LOC if need be,should be the next tactic to punish the pigs.Any knowledge of pigs being harboured by regular Paki forces at one of their bases/camps,should be considered as a Pigsty and exterminated.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby K Mehta » 04 Oct 2016 20:29

To all gurus,
It is generally assumed that the best time to hit tsp is winter. With the example of 71 this is considered as a given.
My question is that, this was true for 71 but does it mean that it is true for a western border only conflict? What would be the best time to attack tsp? Especially if we disregard China ( and I am of this opinion) which is the best time to hit tsp with a goal of denuclearisation of tsp?

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2016 23:42

Same time. Disregard China is nice but they have capability and intentions.
Winter makes the capability difficult even if it has intentions.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby williams » 05 Oct 2016 01:00

Lets first talk about denuclearization. Risks aside, is that even possible?

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby ramana » 05 Oct 2016 02:13

williams wrote:Lets first talk about denuclearization. Risks aside, is that even possible?



Pak has no strategic nukes. The surgical Strike has revealed that. All redlines are erased.
That is the issue for Pak, China and Congress.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby NRao » 05 Oct 2016 02:23

arun wrote:X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Spokesperson of the Dynastic Nehru-Gandhi family led Congress Party, discloses that the Indian Army carried out cross LoC raids in 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2013.

Congress confirms noiseless surgical strikes


Noise is very important. Pakistani groans. Everyone should hear them.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Rudradev » 05 Oct 2016 02:27

Ramana Garu what exactly is/was Congress game plan here?

Does having a Pakistan that exists in the same form as 1971-present, constantly waging asymmetric war under an assumed strategic nuclear nuclear umbrella and paying no consequences, keeping the J&K issue alive, help the C-system? We need to explore, define, and clearly articulate how so. Most Congressis would be able to rubbish this claim easily... they would say "how could such a thing possibly benefit us? It kept investor confidence low, it made public angry with the strategic restraint shown by peaceful SG/MMS govt, it inflamed communal passions in the country... so why blame us?"

We have to show why everything from Malegaon to 26/11 to Samjhauta Blasts to Hindu Terrorism to the Nuclear Redlines of Pakistan are linked together. Clearly, comprehensively, and in a way that is easy for people to understand.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Karthik S » 05 Oct 2016 03:16

Let all these be the softening process, hope pigeon is charting a course to take back part of Kashmir that's not in our hands.


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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby NRao » 05 Oct 2016 04:33

India retains right to protect its interests, Doval tells counterpart

In the first conversation between National Security Adviser (NSA) Ajit Doval and his Pakistani counterpart Nasir Khan Janjua since the Uri strike, India gave Pakistan details of the surgical strike carried out by the Indian Army last week.

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby GShankar » 05 Oct 2016 04:59

NRao wrote:India retains right to protect its interests, Doval tells counterpart

In the first conversation between National Security Adviser (NSA) Ajit Doval and his Pakistani counterpart Nasir Khan Janjua since the Uri strike, India gave Pakistan details of the surgical strike carried out by the Indian Army last week.


From the same article
Pakistani envoy Maleeha Lodhi had asked the previous UNSC chair, New Zealand, to call for a discussion on the India-Pakistan situation. But when the New Zealand envoy raised it, there was no response from the members and no discussion.


Seems like the tallel bro told them to approach someone else. NZ is smallel bro?

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Re: India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

Postby Hari Seldon » 05 Oct 2016 07:47

Hopefully "hot pursuit" options across the LoC are now the new normal?


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