General Indian Military News & Discussion

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kit
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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2017 17:08

Gaur wrote:No defence for the MoD

http://blogs.economictimes.indiatimes.com/letterfromwashington/no-defence-for-the-mod/

Indian military officers have embarrassingly limited powers to make decisions. They can’t even decide if they can attend a seminar or a conference without MoD clearance. US officials have told me countless stories over the years about how three-star US generals have not been allowed to meet their Indian counterparts. Instead, an MoD or foreign office mandarin takes a seat. This is just stupid.


Perhaps, the MoD thinks interaction leads to ideological infection. Why else would bureaucrats limit bilateral visits to ‘2 in, 2 out’ — two incoming and two outgoing visits a year per service? If the Indian Navy wants to host a third US delegation in a calendar year, it can’t even if the Naval chief sees a pressing need to discuss matters.


wow :shock:

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 19 Aug 2017 17:25

kit wrote:
shiv wrote:US will request Saudis not to give to Pakistan and if Pakistan gets any the US will command Pak not to use it against India so India will remain totally unaffected. We can depend on the US to do things well. We need not worry at all.


Boss ., once a transfer is made, its upon the incumbent country to use it whatever they see fit. The US will not be able to do much except make fuss or threaten. Apparently not every weapon system has a "kill switch" like those for the F 35 or 22 !!. Rest assured some of that Saudi stuff will come to paki hands, the Indians just need to be aware of such a possibility

Call it greed / profit minded etc on part of the American arms lobby

That was a sarcastic post..

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby ovein » 20 Aug 2017 10:13

I heard this same story from my Nana ji.. how central assam was in chaos in 1962 china war and how far chinese has progressed.

http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/ ... CIPVJ.html

Remember, tezpur is now the 4 corps headquarter and major air base with sukhois in place.

Thought to share

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby jayasimha » 21 Aug 2017 13:57

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
20-August-2017 14:55 IST
Ministry of Defence approves delegation of Powers to Border Roads Organisation

The Ministry of Defence has decided to delegate administrative and financial powers to the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) right upto the level of Chief Engineer and Task Force Commander, so as to avoid delays on account of references between the Chief Engineer and HQ DGBR and also between HQ DGBR and the Ministry.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=170110

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby ashthor » 30 Aug 2017 17:16

Cross posting

Modi Government Approves First Phase Of Reforms In Army

http://www.republicworld.com/s/6016/def ... ndian-army

In consultation with the Army, the Arun Jaitley-led ministry has decided to act on the recommendations of the Shekatkar Committee which was mandated to suggest measures for 'enhancing the combat capability and rebalancing the defence expenditure of the Armed forces'. The aim, in this case, was to increase the "teeth to tail" ratio.

As per documents accessed by Republic TV, a total of 99 recommendations had been made, of which 65 have been approved for implementation by December 31, 2019.


More in the link


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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Gaur » 31 Aug 2017 14:57

Army to close down its dairies, give 25,000 cows to states, central body

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/army-to-close-down-its-dairies-give-25-000-cows-to-states-central-body/story-VCamCJvPRsqS1LbDuyDV3J.html

The Indian army will give away 25,000 cows to state governments and the Indian Council of Agricultural Research as it shuts down 39 military dairies across the country.

The government decided to shut these farms down to free up resources — mostly prime real estate and the revenue spent on them — as part of a major military overhaul that was announced on Wednesday.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 03 Sep 2017 13:28

Nirmala Sitharaman is new raksha mantri

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 03 Sep 2017 13:36

shiv wrote:Nirmala Sitharaman is new raksha mantri


Excellent choice! India's second woman Defence Minister (IG was the first).

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Will » 03 Sep 2017 13:49

Finally! A full time defence minister. She seems to be the no nonsense type. Hope she hits the ground running. Mite be an added advantage being a woman. Can keep the babus off balance and push things through :mrgreen:

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 03 Sep 2017 19:02

India has a full-time defence minister again! Nirmala Sitharaman elevated from commerce to defence
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.ca/2017/09/i ... ister.html

Image

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 03 Sep 2017 20:24

I wish Piyush Goyal had been the choice or Gadkari (knows how to deal with relcitrant types) but full wishes and kudos to Sitharaman ma'am. I hope she can keep the babus and unions in check & also drive real success with forces- R&D synergy.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 04 Sep 2017 01:01

Good luck to Ms Sitharaman. I was hoping for someone more senior and a degree of independence to take on the FM and influence the PM. With this move any "transformation" would be only PMO led. So far it has not been forthcoming from that office. Some ray of hope though that Jaitley may been better educated on defense issues through his two stints and hence representations made by the new RM may get a sympathetic hearing. The fact that she is a woman is good optics but not material.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 04 Sep 2017 01:32

I am just concerned she is a lightweight politically who will not be able to handle the DPSU union and procurement-CAG crap the MOD is saddled with. It needed somebody hardnosed like Gadkari with the technology acumen of a Goyal.. anyhow.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 04 Sep 2017 01:36

FWIW this was posted on another thread:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIyh49KVwAAsUy3.jpg

If Sitharaman ma'am breaks through the procurement logjam and supports true MII, Make in India with DRDO, Pvt industry working with the services.. and fixes the serviceability aspect for forces.. one can't ask for more.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 04 Sep 2017 01:42

She is only 59 years old with Mphil in Economics from JNU. This whole effort in improving Tooth to Teeth ratio will be increased.
I never knew that Indian army had Dairies inside their headquarters taking up prime land in cities like Ambala, Srinagar, etc.
The committee recommended 188 different ways to increase tooth/teeth ratio out of which 99 have been accepted (by Jaitley and now responsibility of Ms Nirmala Seetharaman).

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby jayasimha » 05 Sep 2017 12:04

:D

DM being born from TN, already Lungi dance has started here in chennai, ( CVRDE and HVF in particular ) and Bangalore as well.

546 Arjuns MK 1 will be ordered (over and above what is ordered)
756 Arjun in MK2 will be ordered to be delivered by 2020.

PMO will be counting the amount saved for the nation in billions...
:)
Army will use MK1 and MKII wisely and they will/can deploy where ever they deem fit..
---------
She is RS MP from Karnataka, I am sure Defexpo will be shifted to Bangalore. Lucky guys..
---------

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 05 Sep 2017 14:39

jayasimha wrote::D
546 Arjuns MK 1 will be ordered (over and above what is ordered)
756 Arjun in MK2 will be ordered to be delivered by 2020.


you mean you wish the above were so ?
why would you order more Mk1s ?

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Chinmay » 05 Sep 2017 16:06

jayasimha wrote:DM being born from TN, already Lungi dance has started here in chennai, ( CVRDE and HVF in particular ) and Bangalore as well.

546 Arjuns MK 1 will be ordered (over and above what is ordered)
756 Arjun in MK2 will be ordered to be delivered by 2020.

PMO will be counting the amount saved for the nation in billions...
:)

---------


This is chaiwalla news or a wishlist?

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 06 Sep 2017 20:42

From Tarmak007 - Anantha Krishnan M
WRITE NOW | WISHLIST FOR THE DEFENCE MINISTER

Nirmala Sitharaman will take charge as India's new Defence Minister tomorrow (7 Sept 2017, Thursday). What is your wish-list for the new boss of MoD? Keep your comments crisp, to the point and meaningful. All sensible comments will reach the minister (with your names), without fail.
(Note: Only serious ones must participate in this exercise.)
https://www.facebook.com/Tarmak007/phot ... =3&theater

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 08 Sep 2017 04:35

Why Nirmala Sitharaman Is A Solid Choice For Defence Minister
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/09 ... ister.html

In a document titled ‘In Defence Of The Nation’ published last year, the government stated....

Link to that document (in PDF format) is here ---> http://pib.nic.in/archieve/others/2015/ ... 031702.pdf

Please download if you wish to read. If you rely on PIB to access that doc, good luck.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 08 Sep 2017 05:07

Part 1 - Eagle Eye: It’s time for India to formulate a national security doctrine
https://theprint.in/2017/08/28/eagle-ey ... -doctrine/

Part 2 - If India starts now, it can finally have a National Security Doctrine by 2022
https://theprint.in/2017/09/07/if-india ... e-by-2022/

By Air Vice Marshal Arjun Subramaniam (Retd)

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 11 Sep 2017 16:59

Image

Karan M
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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 11 Sep 2017 17:17

Great stuff from our new DM! Wish her the best.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Viv S » 21 Sep 2017 15:28

No more foreign govt-funded courses for Indian military officers: Centre

20 September, 2017

Uncomfortable with other countries cultivating Indian military officers, government says it’ll pay for an international course if justified.

The defence ministry has barred armed forces officers from pursuing training courses abroad that are sponsored by foreign governments. It has said that the Indian government would pay for an international course if it is justified.

The decision was taken after it came to light that a large number of middle-rung officers were seeking clearance for course offers from foreign countries, particularly Western nations.

Typically, an official said, many of these countries would send out invites offering short, fully-funded courses or academic familiarisation tours to officers, who would then seek clearances on the ground that it did not burden the government financially.

An official in the know of the details told ThePrint that while many of these courses may have been professionally relevant, it was a matter of discomfort that these countries were using such opportunities to cultivate younger officers.

Also, it was argued that it did not suit India’s stature to accept such assistance given that New Delhi itself was offering courses for militaries in its neighbourhood.

This led to an official audit of permission granted for such cases, which was followed by an exercise to determine the cost the government would incur if it would have funded these officers.

The estimated amount, an insider said, was about Rs 12 crore. It was then decided at the highest levels that the government would rather fund these officers from than allow them to take benefits from a foreign country. A small part of the defence budget will now be earmarked for this purpose, the officials said.

Going forward, military officers can identify courses in foreign institutions and seek government funding, which would be put through the same approval process.

The only exception will be for courses that are agreed on a reciprocal basis, where India will also take in a specified number of foreign military officers for courses it offers.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussio

Postby Rishirishi » 22 Sep 2017 03:33

An essential move. So many countries have ended up with military governments. First officers are cultivated. Their kids are offered places at University. They are fed propoganda. The rest of the story er all know.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby ManuJ » 22 Sep 2017 06:11

If officers end up going to foreign institutions, they will be cultivated regardless of who pays for it.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Viv S » 22 Sep 2017 08:20

Now the Babus will decide if paying for an international course is justified. Sounds perfect.

Rather neat way of cutting off insidious foreign influence - simply remove such exposure for the officer cadre.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby anjan » 24 Sep 2017 20:13

Viv S wrote:No more foreign govt-funded courses for Indian military officers: Centre

20 September, 2017

Uncomfortable with other countries cultivating Indian military officers, government says it’ll pay for an international course if justified.

The defence ministry has barred armed forces officers from pursuing training courses abroad that are sponsored by foreign governments. It has said that the Indian government would pay for an international course if it is justified.


What a dumb move. What opportunity to cultivate does a course offer that a trip abroad as a tourist will not? Hell, there are enough opportunities to cultivate in India as arms corruptions scandals show. Let MI and IB counter-intelligence do their jobs.

And what about the IAS/IPS? Half of them are out on courses on sponsored courses on development and policing abroad. Are they going to be similarly restricted or do we not care about foregn influence at that level of national administration or our intelligence agencies(primarily officered by the IPS)?

This is one more of those "showing the military its place" moves by the IAS. Puerile and petty. That said one must admire them too. Incompetent professionally they may be, but going by the "wah-wah"ing on the forum clearly they can read their audience well.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2017 20:21

anjan wrote:
What a dumb move. What opportunity to cultivate does a course offer that a trip abroad as a tourist will not? Hell, there are enough opportunities to cultivate in India as arms corruptions scandals show. Let MI and IB counter-intelligence do their jobs.

And what about the IAS/IPS? Half of them are out on courses on sponsored courses on development and policing abroad. Are they going to be similarly restricted or do we not care about foregn influence at that level of national administration or our intelligence agencies(primarily officered by the IPS)?

This is one more of those "showing the military its place" moves by the IAS. Puerile and petty. That said one must admire them too. Incompetent professionally they may be, but going by the "wah-wah"ing on the forum clearly they can read their audience well.

In my view you underestimate the value of good hospitality shown to guests. Pakis do it all the time to win over Indian hearts and minds.
Little things like the US visa simply getting stamped without an interview at the consulate etc can go a long way towards making anyone feel special. Anyone who is given a car to go around, shown around, given free trips to great sites and put up in fantastic accommodation will become sympathetic to the people who were friendly with him. Psy ops basics


I will just quote a few paras from my 2007 book on Pakistan on the value of hospitality
Hospitality and generosity:

The characteristic of being extremely hospitable and generous to guests has stood Pakistanis and Pakistan in good stead. No visitor to Pakistan goes away without being touched by this, and this characteristic has been used to good effect by Pakistan over the years.

An article in the American magazine, The Weekly Standard had this to say in its Nov 5th 2001 edition:

..the attractive character of elite Pakistani officials. Compared with their haughty Indian and chaotic Afghan neighbors, Pakistani VIPs are often wittier, warmer, and more knowledgeable about the insider gossip of U.S. politics. American diplomats and spooks often have a good deal of fun with their Westernized Pakistani counterparts. As one congressional staffer, who frequently visits south-central Asia, succinctly put it, "I like 'em; the Indians are jerks."

A series of Western writers and prominent people have been hosted and feted in Pakistan, and have later served as honorary ambassadors for Pakistan in the Western media.

One prominent example is the famous American pilot, Chuck Yeager, who was a guest of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and who later went on to write paeans about the PAF For many years after the PAF was comprehensively defeated in successive wars with India, Yeager's words of praise of the Pakistan Air Force continued to be quoted, maintaining a reputation for the PAF that extended far beyond its real performance.

Pakistani hospitality has charmed a large number of prominent writers to write positively about Pakistan, and some have gone as far as to make needlessly hostile and malicious references to India in their writings despite strong evidence that their words are misinformed at best, and often just plain wrong. Prominent among people who have written warm words for Pakistan are writers like Brian Cloughley, Eric Margolis and John Fricker.

As recently as June 2002, the Washington Post reported:

It was mid afternoon Tuesday, and Anwar Mahmood, Pakistan's information secretary, was on the phone discussing with an underling how to keep more than 100 foreign journalists happy for the rest of the week...if it keeps the reporters satisfied, he figured, it's worth the $3,000 it will cost his ministry to rent the plane from Pakistan International Airlines...The Pakistani government, eager to make its voice heard, has ordered foreign embassies to expedite visas for journalists...Five times in the past month, the Information Ministry has rented air-conditioned buses to carry journalists to the Line of Control... There they are treated to hour-long military briefings, complete with maps, displays of Indian mortar shells -- and tea sandwiches served on trays by white-gloved soldiers. You won't get such hospitality from the Indian army.


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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby deejay » 24 Sep 2017 20:28

But Doctor Sa'ab it is also valid on all government officers. Limiting the military and forcing them to go through Babu while leaving the Babu free to do the same? This is how the babu becomes "Mai-Baap".

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Sep 2017 20:29

shiv wrote:
I will just quote a few paras from my 2007 book on Pakistan on the value of hospitality

Your book? which one? all these years and never knew..link please :)

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Sep 2017 20:31

deejay wrote:But Doctor Sa'ab it is also valid on all government officers. Limiting the military and forcing them to go through Babu while leaving the Babu free to do the same? This is how the babu becomes "Mai-Baap".

deejay sir,
you beat me to it..additional point is..the army man has his life on line, beyond a point that influence will have its limits, unlike a babu who being influenced can cause far more damages with impunity unlike a solider/officer who will be court martialled.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2017 20:32

deejay wrote:But Doctor Sa'ab it is also valid on all government officers. Limiting the military and forcing them to go through Babu while leaving the Babu free to do the same? This is how the babu becomes "Mai-Baap".

Fair enough. I was only saying that it is possible to influence people with hospitality.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 24 Sep 2017 20:38

ArjunPandit wrote:
deejay wrote:But Doctor Sa'ab it is also valid on all government officers. Limiting the military and forcing them to go through Babu while leaving the Babu free to do the same? This is how the babu becomes "Mai-Baap".

deejay sir,
you beat me to it..additional point is..the army man has his life on line, beyond a point that influence will have its limits, unlike a babu who being influenced can cause far more damages with impunity unlike a solider/officer who will be court martialled.

My argument as I stated was that it is possible to influence someone with hospitality and that babu or not a person can and does get influenced by freebies.

It is possible to argue endlessly on this issue. Why should doctors not accept hospitality and freebies for prescribing safe but expensive medicines and implants? There is no security issue. If people think some doctors are untrustworthy they are free to seek help elsewhere - but why not let it be a free market?

My e-book now a decade old

Pakistan Failed State

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby deejay » 24 Sep 2017 21:08

^^^ It is always possible to influence both through hospitality and even by being a guest. It can work both way. I do not contest that. My point is slective application of rule on military though military men are least influential in decision making. Are Babu's who will sit as key decision makers subjected to this rule? Are our politicians subjected to this rule? If yes, then I have no complaints at all.

Why is fear of "influence" only valid for military? Children of lesser service?

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 24 Sep 2017 21:29

deejay wrote:^^^ It is always possible to influence both through hospitality and even by being a guest. It can work both way. I do not contest that. My point is slective application of rule on military though military men are least influential in decision making. Are Babu's who will sit as key decision makers subjected to this rule? Are our politicians subjected to this rule? If yes, then I have no complaints at all.
New to this discussion and have no comment other than to state this obvious point....that in India where civilian government (i.e. IAS babus and politicians) have control over the military since independence, one should be more concerned about babus, politicians (and their progeny) being influenced. This restriction should apply to civilians in govt. too. Civilian govt (inludes MoD, procurement, Finance etc.) are critical to defence as well. Slowed procurement means troops are less effective.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby anjan » 24 Sep 2017 23:13

shiv wrote:In my view you underestimate the value of good hospitality shown to guests. Pakis do it all the time to win over Indian hearts and minds.
Little things like the US visa simply getting stamped without an interview at the consulate etc can go a long way towards making anyone feel special. Anyone who is given a car to go around, shown around, given free trips to great sites and put up in fantastic accommodation will become sympathetic to the people who were friendly with him. Psy ops basics
All I'm saying is hospitality can be shown anywhere. It can be invites to embassy soirees with people hanging on to what you have to say. It can be access to exclusive clubs. Ideologically we aren't the ban movement of people sorts. So we have to rely on patriotism trumping hospitality and CI catching the avarice cases.

That apart, the military is possibly the most serious about "Contact with Foreign nationals". Foreign trips, even as a tourist, require clearance with service HQ. And yet except for some level of staff probably have the most compartmentalized information. The military is already pretty damn well covered. The same is not true of the IAS/IPS who wield a lot more power. For that matter IR employees get free passes for European Railways. Is the state of rail transportation networks sensitive information? Can they influence the state of connectivity, affect strategic mvmt? I'd say yes. And yet, here we are.

And all this discussion under the shadow of the fact that Sonia Gandhi had 8 years of unchecked power and information. This restriction is more about the IAS extending influence on the military than about foreign countries doing it.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby Gaur » 25 Sep 2017 16:08

PMO to review progress made under Make in India scheme in defence sector

"The PMO is planning to review the progress made in the Make in India scheme with all stakeholders, including officials from the defence ministry and department of defence production," a government source told Mail Today.

Sources said the focus of the meet would be on ongoing and long-pending projects under the Make in India category, which have been stalled or slowed down due to different issues, and ways on which they can be pushed towards completion at a faster rate.

The meeting will give special focus on armoured vehicles to be provided to the Indian Army , which has been working on its futuristic infantry combat vehicle project for over a decade now. Efforts are being made to revive the project where big industrial players, including Tatas and L&T are in the fray, along with the state-run Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Sep 2017 01:16

shiv wrote:
My e-book now a decade old

Pakistan Failed State

1. Shiv saar went through first 50 pages, certainly an interesting read, and very informative book especially for those who lack the drive to come on BRF daily.
2. BTW do you have something similar for China? I have read John Keay's history of china, but it's not much different from viewing China through CNN/NYT lens


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