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Naval LCA - News and Discussion

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 07 May 2016 02:27

You forget the biggest thing in these pictures. It is no longer a long roll. These are short take offs from chalks!

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 07 May 2016 13:16

maxratul wrote:this bird looks a class apart from the IAF version.


I've said this before. For me, the Naval LCA is the most beautiful fighter aircraft out there. Something about it's design and look, can't pinpoint what (iphone type addictive quality to it). Look long at this wonderful shot:

http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/Goa ... -5qSQmx8/A

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby BharadwajV » 07 May 2016 18:57

Is that the Elta EL/L 8222 on the NLCA?
(Outer most hard points)

Image

Or some other (data logging?) device?

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 08 May 2016 04:46

The IAF needs to take a hard look at this aircraft! Would be a shame to not see it in IAF colors.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 08 May 2016 07:09

^^ R-73 pylon adaptor

Did anyone notice the new low visibility Indian roundrel?

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 08 May 2016 13:06

It must be truly lo-viz as I did not notice it at all! :mrgreen:

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 08 May 2016 15:09

just forward of LEVCON - where the roundrel normally is.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Bob V » 10 May 2016 02:41

JE Menon wrote:
I've said this before. For me, the Naval LCA is the most beautiful fighter aircraft out there. Something about it's design and look, can't pinpoint what (iphone type addictive quality to it). Look long at this wonderful shot:

http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/Goa ... -5qSQmx8/A


An absolute stunner ! droolworthy indeed. A lot of details have gone into the aesthetics part, compared to the LCA.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JTull » 11 May 2016 02:35

As Sea Harriers retire, Naval Tejas readies to fly off aircraft carrier next year

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 11th May 16

At the end of thirty years of flying from Indian Navy aircraft carriers, the iconic Sea Harrier jump jet will make its ceremonial last flight on Wednesday. Readying to take its place is the naval version of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which recently completed a successful flight-test campaign in Goa.

While the Sea Harriers operated from the INS Vikrant and INS Viraat, now both retired, the Naval Tejas will operate from the Vikrant’s successor, an indigenous aircraft carrier that is scheduled to be commissioned in 2018.

Commodore (Retired) CD Balaji, chief of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the Tejas development programme, told Business Standard that taking off and landing from a 200-metre deck has been fully established. So has “hot-refuelling” --- topping up the aircraft after a sortie with the engine running and the pilot in the cockpit --- which allows a rapid turnaround between sorties.

For the navy, it is vital to ready the Tejas for the INS Vikrant and, subsequently, the next aircraft carrier, INS Vishal. The MiG-29K will be the medium fighter on INS Vikrant, as it already is on INS Vikramaditya. The Tejas is crucial for filling in the light fighter slot.

Balaji reveals a committed navy is funding 40 per cent of the development cost of the Naval Tejas. The MoD has allocated Rs 3,650 crore for the naval programme.

The ADA chief described the flight trials in Goa between March 27 and April 25, in which two Naval Tejas prototypes flew 33 sorties from a Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) -- a full-scale replica of an aircraft carrier deck. Built on land, the SBTF allows carrier deck take-offs and landings to be validated, without unduly endangering an aircraft carrier, or an aircraft prototype and pilot.

When taking off from an aircraft carrier, a fighter revs up its engine to the maximum, while held back by a “restraining gear system” (RGS). Then, the RGS is disengaged, and the fighter shoots forward, accelerating to take-off speed in just 200 metres of deck. At the end of the deck runway, a “ski-jump” lifts the aircraft upwards, after which it flies on its own power.

In December 2014, the Naval Tejas had taken off from the SBTF ski-jump after rolling 300 metres. Now, the fighter has proven it can take off from just 200 metres, even carrying two R-73 close combat missiles.


“With this campaign, ski-jump launches are no longer a challenge. We will now explore the limits the fighter can be taken to. We will further fine-tune the control law software to take-off with higher payloads,” said Balaji.

In aircraft carrier combat operations at sea, the Naval Tejas must take off with up to 3.5 tonnes of payload--- more fuel for longer range; and more weapons for a lethal punch. For this, the aircraft carrier would steam into the wind, ensuring a “wind-over-deck speed” of up to 20 knots. That would provide added lift to the aircraft, allowing higher payloads.

In aircraft carriers with catapult launchers, as the navy’s next indigenous aircraft carrier, INS Vishal, could be, the catapult allows higher launch speeds and, therefore, higher payloads.

Similarly, fitting the Tejas Mark-2 with the more powerful General Electric F-414 engine (the current Mark -1 fighter has the smaller F-404 engine) will allow greater payloads and more ambitious mission objectives.

Even more challenging than taking off from a 200-metre carrier deck is to land an aircraft back on the carrier. This requires touching down precisely at the edge of the runway, aligning the approach with the help of an “optical landing system” and a “landing control post”. At landing, an “arresting gear system” --- including wire cables across the deck runway --- latches onto a hook on the fighter’s tail and rapidly decelerates it to a halt.

In the current campaign, the Tejas did over 60 approaches (without actually touching down) to gather data for fine-tuning the control law software. In the next campaign this month, we will do “touch and go” approaches to validate the software and then graduate to full landings,” explains Balaji.

Finally, the Naval Tejas demonstrated its “fuel jettison” capability --- a safety feature that allows the fighter to quickly jettison on-board fuel if it encounters a problem soon after launch and must quickly return for an emergency landing on the carrier.


By mid-2017, we will have established on the SBTF that the Naval Tejas can be flown off an actual carrier, and we will then graduate to ship-based testing. We currently have two prototypes in testing, and will build a third by then”, says a satisfied ADA chief.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby srai » 11 May 2016 03:37

^^^

Sounds like NLCA Mk.1 could be used for LIFT--training of pilots for carrier landing/take-offs as well as emergency and combat training. The IN should order at least 20 of these. Current plan is for 8 units.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby sharma.abhinav » 11 May 2016 22:02

Am I reading it right or is this another part ddm. Naval Tejas taking off with a payload of 3.5 tons. As far as I know that is the maximum payload of AF Tejas Mk1. If it does so would Navy buy more and use it atop its carriers.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Mihir » 11 May 2016 22:07

tsarkar wrote:^^ R-73 pylon adaptor

Did anyone notice the new low visibility Indian roundrel?

The Navy has used these roundels for several years now. This photo was taken in 2005: http://www.acig.info/exclusives/viraat/ ... 3_prep.jpg

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 11 May 2016 22:37

Indeed, the Navy has gone with lower viz roundels, but the new one on the N-LCA almost does away with the white centre.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JTull » 12 May 2016 01:57

I think IN missed a trick by not giving NLCA some airtime and photop during this phase out of Harriers. It would have been a good publicity of past, present and future.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 12 May 2016 03:19

^^ If they show NLCA as the future., will it not mean that it is a commitment to NLCA-MkI where they actually may not want to (and instead use it as a test bed) while the futuristic NLCA-MkII is what they want?

From a program management view., it makes sense to NOT show NLCA-MkI as future (a sure way to kill the bird IMHO since wagging tails will say that the present Mig29k is far better than the future Mk1).

BTW., I do not think the roundel looks any smaller on NLCA. Check this image out:

http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/Goa-Detachment-LCA-Navy-2016/i-ndcsQXz/0/XL/NAVY-2016APR_2-XL.jpg

Added later: Ah since I am in love with NLCA., screw your browsers - here is the image I love:

Image

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 12 May 2016 03:32

This might have been posted already., but posting again - something I have not yet read completely but like the title!

Naval LCA a tech marvel taking shape for the future

http://www.aeromag.in/sites/default/files/Jan%20Feb%202015_final%20for%20web.pdf

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JTull » 24 May 2016 14:42

LCA naval platforms begin night flying from SBTF in Goa

Bengaluru, May 24: The naval prototypes of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) - NP-1 (trainer) and NP-2 (fighter) - have begun their night flying activities for the first time from the Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) at INS Hansa in Goa. This is virtually a back-to-back campaign for the NLCA team, considering they only finished the previous trials at the end of April.

The detachment includes scientists and engineers from Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). The current trials began on May 21 and are expected to continue through this week.

"The night trials are critical for the project. This is for the first time that both NP-1 and NP-2 are undertaking night operations from SBTF. Both have done extensive night trials from normal runways," says an official.

So far both platforms have carried out four sorties with the time duration ranging from 25 to 30 minutes.

"It's important that we complete these sets of trials before Monsoon sets in. Pre-Monsoon winds are favourable for undertaking the tests. We are also fine-tuning some of the parameters we have tested in April. Ahead of the current campaign, both platforms underwent some stress analysis tests in Bengaluru," says the official.

During the April campaign at SBTF, NP-2 demonstrated the fuel jettison test successfully. This is the capability to dump/jettison fuel in case of a requirement arising due to an emergency after launch of an aircraft from an aircraft carrier. The excess fuel is dumped into the ocean in a systematic manner, to reduce the weight of the aircraft.

"Typically the landing mass is much lower than the take-off mass and is a feature required on all naval aircraft operating from a ship. Ahead of this, we have undertaken extensive design and simulation tests. A Sea Harrier (now decommissioned) was the chase aircraft capturing the event," says the official.

Radar and data link too tested

In the last campaign, preliminary evaluation of air-to-sea mode of the radar was carried out to gather data. The data link (only on naval version) evaluation was carried out with the Sea Harrier in flight. Sea Harrier also had the same data link of NLCA.

"Other test points required to gather data at sea level were the parametric identification (PIDs) sorties with LEVCON (Leading Edge Vortex Controller) deflected to minus-30 degrees. The flutter test (vibration) points were also captured," says the official.

Hot refueling routinely carried out in Goa

The hot-refueling concept, widely tested in Bengaluru, was continuously been carried out in Goa on NP-2. This is an activity wherein the aircraft after its sortie, instead of switching off, is refueled with the engine running and pilot in the cockpit. It then immediately takes off again.

"This is thus a game changer as the sortie productivity is enhanced. This has given two sortie worth of test point coverage in a single sortie. This is currently the only fighter aircraft in the country with this capability. We could incorporate this feature on the IAF version (Tejas) also," adds the official.

Read more at: http://www.oneindia.com/india/lca-naval ... 07949.html

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby ashvin » 24 May 2016 14:46

Naval LCA is truly a magnificent bird!

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JayS » 24 May 2016 15:01

^^ From above news item:
"This is thus a game changer as the sortie productivity is enhanced. This has given two sortie worth of test point coverage in a single sortie. This is currently the only fighter aircraft in the country with this capability. We could incorporate this feature on the IAF version (Tejas) also," adds the official.


Does that mean no other a/c in IN/IAF has hot refuelling capability?? Really?? :shock: :shock:


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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby mody » 24 May 2016 16:49

From the above article about night flying, it says that NP-2 is currently the only LCA with data link.
The data link is the same as used with the Sea Harriers as part of the LUSH program.

Does this mean the IAF version of LCA does not have a data link to communicate with other LCA aircrafts?
Does the Su-30 MKI, have the same data link?
Also the hot refuelling feature. Wonder why IAF has not asked for it to be incorporated.


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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby vina » 25 May 2016 09:16

Does that mean no other a/c in IN/IAF has hot refuelling capability?? Really?? :shock: :shock:

Yes. Not many aircraft in the world will have that. The Gripen has it. And now we see that the Naval LCA has it as well. The Gripen team demonstrated that during the MMRCA fly off competition.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 25 May 2016 09:43



Now that would need balls of steel and a lot of confidence in the Naval LCA for the test pilot..hurling an aircraft off a 200m roll in pitch darkness onto a ramp and off into the air..simply amazes me how courageous naval carrier pilots must be.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 25 May 2016 11:59


Kakarat
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 25 May 2016 12:36


member_27581
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby member_27581 » 25 May 2016 14:51

"This is thus a game changer as the sortie productivity is enhanced. This has given two sortie worth of test point coverage in a single sortie. This is currently the only fighter aircraft in the country with this capability. We could incorporate this feature on the IAF version (Tejas) also," adds the official.

This is the key takeaway.

Isnt mid air refuelling similar? engine is not switched off there too.as the plane keeps flying and moving forward at same speed as refueller.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Bob V » 26 May 2016 14:27

There is a concept of static discharge that applies, when the a/c is on ground. Plus, the fuel pump system & the internal plumbing needs to be modified, to provision for this. Hence, the uniqueness of this invention.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 26 May 2016 14:50

Bob V wrote:There is a concept of static discharge that applies, when the a/c is on ground. Plus, the fuel pump system & the internal plumbing needs to be modified, to provision for this. Hence, the uniqueness of this invention.


OK, it might be unique but what is its value in combat conditions over A2A refueling? AM I missing something obvious?

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 26 May 2016 14:55

Given our limited AAR capabilities...

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JayS » 27 May 2016 13:34

Kartik wrote:


Now that would need balls of steel and a lot of confidence in the Naval LCA for the test pilot..hurling an aircraft off a 200m roll in pitch darkness onto a ramp and off into the air..simply amazes me how courageous naval carrier pilots must be.


While looking at the video where NLCA is only seen due to its exhaust, its that pitch dark, I was thinking how much more difficult it would be to land an a/c on a carrier in pitch dark out in the sea when there is black-out of the ship due to war-like situation. I am guessing the Carrier flotilla would maintain blackout during war to eliminate visual indications. And Naval pilots must be training regularly for landing on the deck under such black-out situations. May be only the landing aid lights would be flashed for a short while. But locating the ship in such vast area without any visual aid and then landing on it would be really really tough even by a fighter pilot's standard.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 27 May 2016 14:01

A night aircraft carrier landing in a U.S. Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet through the HUD



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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 28 May 2016 15:21

Video of Ski-jump launch of NLCA from Restraining Gear System (RGS) from the above link


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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 28 May 2016 21:15

^^ Is it just me., the video angle or something truly changed in the software that the NLCA ski-jump launch appears smoother than previous launches?

Also ski-jump launch using RGS is a major step ...

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby kit » 29 May 2016 14:49

i suppose the NLCA would be able to generate a much higher sortie rate than most of its peers ! .. good for karachi and Gwadar :mrgreen:

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 30 May 2016 09:14

As I posted before the N-LCA was doing a touchdown things in Goa when I last visited Goa last week. First time for me.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 30 May 2016 11:59

MP's statements about the LCA hold good for the NLCA too.That it is a fine aircraft but lacks legs,etc for longer ranged ops which larger twin-engined aircraft are better at. He said that the LCAs will replace the MIG-21s which defend our bases,etc. The same shortfall in capability will affect the NLCA.The more fuel tanks/drop tanks it carries,the lesser the payload,BVR AAMs,whatever. Far from shore and outside tanker range,,airborne refuelling will be limited to buddy-buddy methods that the MIG-29Ks use. In comparison,a larger med sized aircraft or even naval Flanker would be the combat equiv of two to three NLCAs. The NLCAs however would give us a decent inner zone CAP/fleet air defence. UAVs and larger carrier aircraft would be responsible for longer-ranged missions and AEW.

Nevertheless,the NLCA is a great step forward in possessing an indigenous multi-role carrier aircraft. Being smaller the NLCA may allow us a few extra aircraft aboard our smaller CVs. If our amphibs as I've been advocating come with ski-jumps and designed for multi-role ops like the Juan Carlos class,the NLCAs would be ideal in providing close support for amphib landings apart from CAP/fleet air defence. Remember that SAAB offered us a naval Gripen for the Viraat! I predict that rather than the LCA,the NLCA may be our first exports of the variant which will be very attractive to med sized navies like Brasil,etc. that operate light carriers. It will be areal coup if even the RN express interest in the NLCA for their QE CVs! That would be the cherry on top,as our naval fleet air arm and carrier aircraft was started with ex-RN carriers and Sea Hawk aircraft.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 15 Jun 2016 08:12

Some Photo updates on LCA Tejas FB

Pictures from the Iron Fist Exercise 2016

Naval LCA NP-2 Maiden Night Operation in Goa
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby nits » 15 Jun 2016 10:09

May be not immediate but we also need one sortie form Naval Chief of N-LCA ...


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