Naval LCA - News and Discussion

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chetak
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 25 Jul 2018 17:08

Aditya G wrote:MiG-29K availability issues aside, it is an in-service aircraft whose net availability can be boosted by acquiring more of the same type.

If IN wants to operate 3 carriers then the best bet would be to acquire 2 more squadrons of Fulcrums and 1 more Vikrant carrier.

NLCA may come along in the meantime and may see service for limited but crucial roles such as air defence and carrier qualification of pilots. Naval air power will also be exercised by shore based MRAs and shipborne choppers.

I believe this is the most viable path to a full complement air wing at sea.


While still keeping focus on the next iteration of the NLCA.

Shouldn't be too hard to do this, especially when the IN may be willing to fund such development.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby prasannasimha » 25 Jul 2018 20:41

What the NLCA can do in its "limited" role is part of the air defense and monitoring of the carrier group and also for strike roles on suitable targets within reach of the carrier formation. It will not be entirely useless. I could also act as a trainer/exercise unit for pilots to train for carrier landing etc. So it will not be entirely "useless" as iterations improve we will have a huge amount of self developed information to build on.
Also it is far better to have some additional planes working rather than no planes.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 25 Jul 2018 20:42

https://www.ada.gov.in/

· 4059th flight on 25th July

TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:412 LSP5: 414

TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 212 LSP2: 317 LSP4: 370 LSP7: 299

NP1: 73 LSP8 : 234 PV6:197 NP2: 57 SP6:8

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Bala Vignesh » 25 Jul 2018 23:23

Aditya G wrote:NLCA may come along in the meantime and may see service for limited but crucial roles such as air defence and carrier qualification of pilots. Naval air power will also be exercised by shore based MRAs and shipborne choppers.

I believe this is the most viable path to a full complement air wing at sea.


I had proposed this quite some time ago in the forum as well. The NLCA can relieve and reduce the burden of carrier qualifications on the 29K, along with Base defence and ground based fighter cover for vessels leaving and entering ports along with aggressor training for the fulcrum pilots. IN can order about 20-30 aircraft in this role and use them in this "limited" role while at the same time generating a huge amount of data for analysis and design optimisation for either NLCA MK2 or the NAMCA.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 26 Jul 2018 00:24

We perhaps don't need it but we could use it as a carrier fighter trainer?

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 26 Jul 2018 23:31

The Navy should realize that achieving both qualitative and quantitative expansion is not feasible in the current scenario. It has happened in the past but not so at the moment.

IN is chasing an uber carrier with 3 squadrons on afloat - imho wasting their time while PLAN is building multiple simultaneously. Go for a second Vikrant carrier and order the MiGs later if budget is constrained. A Catobar ship will necessitate buying a complementary air wing

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 27 Jul 2018 02:48

I propose the current NLCA to be used as a desi growler.
Develop the remaining platforms as two seater. Remove internal gun and go hard replacing it with E/W suite.

The learnings will be huge and the NLCA will make a quite non-threatening entry into the hangars of VikA and Vikrant

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2018 00:01

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 0755872769 ---> One of the unique features of LCA Navy is the Leading Edge Vortex Controller (LEVCON), which is attached to the wing root at the front and increases lift in low speed & high angle of attack condition.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2018 00:02

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 7648384000 ---> Two prototypes NP-1 & NP-2 have been built. Another one NP-5 is a two seat trainer under construction. NP-3 & NP-4 will be Naval Tejas Mk2 which will be built with consultation from Airbus of France. They will have a longer fuselage and will be distinct from the IAF Tejas Mk2.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2018 00:04

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 9980049409 ---> Fuel dump system tested onboard alongside hot refueling for quick turnaround time. Shore Based Test Facility at INS Hansa, Goa, built with Russian assistance by Goa Shipyard Ltd & DRDO'S CCER&D (W), Pune to resemble the deck of IAC-1 under construction at Cochin.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 01 Aug 2018 00:05

https://twitter.com/indiandefence11/sta ... 2848659456 ---> Landing Tejas on an aircraft carrier meant that airframe was stressed 5 times than the IAF variant hence every LRU was recertified while modifying it by 45 percent. The pull of the arresting gear places a 4.59 g force on the airframe. Ramp takeoff also was more stressful.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 01 Aug 2018 04:39

^^ One of the biggest pay off for NLCA will be if the entire landing gear set is made of Titanium/Titanium alloys. Will reduce weight without compromising on capability.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 02 Aug 2018 11:48

SaiK wrote:https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1024886433415356416
LCA Navy (NP2) undertakes maiden Taxi-in engagement to prove arrestor hook system of aircraft at SBTF Goa


https://twitter.com/i/videos/1024886433415356416


Some Good news and progress
Especially it is the Navy which has released it

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby suryag » 02 Aug 2018 13:17

Har Har Mahadev they could have put the full video out to dil khush us

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 02 Aug 2018 15:27


Kakarat
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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 02 Aug 2018 15:28

https://www.facebook.com/tejas.lca/
A huge step towards LCA Navy's flight test program came through the first taxi-in engagement with the tail hook. This will pave way for the in-flight engagement as part of carrier compatibility test.
We take this opportunity to highlight the contribution by every single individual part of this prorgram.
Jai Hind.


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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby chola » 02 Aug 2018 15:35

^^^
Jai Hind indeed!

That is a nice looking arse on the NLCA, I must say.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 02 Aug 2018 15:42

LCA NP2 video


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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kartik » 02 Aug 2018 23:14

Congratulations to the team that worked hard to get this done. A historic first for India!

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Aug 2018 00:09

the two a/c had been abandoned for 1 year.

it seems finally some sense is dawning that only local tejas and jaguars(which were carrier capable from day1 with trials on clemenceau) is best going forward.

gori chamri foreign madams will come and go, and extract a heavy price in all respects.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 03 Aug 2018 00:34

There was a time when even suggesting that IN should go with a carrier squadron of NLCA would invite wide opprobrium!

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 03 Aug 2018 07:09

disha wrote:There was a time when even suggesting that IN should go with a carrier squadron of NLCA would invite wide opprobrium!

You make it sound a lot more historical than it is.
I would be over the moon if LCA Mk1 Navy becomes desi growler
6 Two Seater Mk1 Desi growlers
2 Trainers Mk1 (naturally two seaters)

2 Desi Growlers per aircraft carrier i.e VikA and VikT
2 kept on shore for rotation / attrition/ replacement / land based strike role.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby JayS » 03 Aug 2018 09:22

After watching this new video, dil garden garden ho gaya. Had IN kept its focus we would have seen LCA taking off from AC by now. They wasted one year.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 03 Aug 2018 10:37

The navy never does anything on a whim. Based on their past performance. The only logical point I can think off regarding the nlca mk1 is that while it dosent meet the requirements of the fleet in terms of range and payload. It's development is vital to reduce any gestation period for the mk2. One of the most important factor for carrier aircraft is to conduct an arrested recovery in a safe manner.

The navy must be looking at the aircraft from all angles to find out that it was safe to perform such recovery. Once they were confident. They did just that.

Here on out I expect full speed ahead, within the constraints of the Indian system.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Kakarat » 03 Aug 2018 17:48

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/10 ... 6128009217

#LCA NP-2 piloted by Capt Shivnath Dahiya executea the first contact of arrestor hook system at moderate taxi-in speeds at the Shore Based Test Facility, INS Hansa, Goa, yesterday.


There is a video in the link of the complete event

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 03 Aug 2018 18:05

I always had that question in mind about when the aircraft tires runs over the arrestor cable, would it be safe. i guess it is only a small bump.

not just one, but I find many in line for the f35 carrier tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxaJGxD-1rc

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Aug 2018 18:11

There are 3 or 4 wires. If hook misses all then pilot has to go full throttle and take off. Since even military engines need a few secs to surge i think the forward motion of ship and low takeoff speed on naval fighters helps

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Lisa » 03 Aug 2018 18:20

^

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-t ... ighter-jet

"In a carrier arrested landing the pilot immediately goes to full thrust as soon as his or her aircraft slams onto the deck. The reason for this is to provide enough thrust to climb away from ship after a bolter. If the hook engagement is normal the pilot keeps the engine at full thrust until the aircraft stops. The devices under the deck that absorb the energy from the arresting cable are set for the weight of the aircraft and also allow for engine thrust. Making sure that the correct settings are always applied is one of the many routine factors in carrier operations that can lead to disaster if not done properly."

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 03 Aug 2018 18:33

It makes sense for multiple wires, keeping full thrust and all that energy absorbed from one single contact - hook, and most importantly keeping the correct tension settings for the type of aircraft. Landing is 1000 times more hair-raising than take off! only last week I got a very hard civilian landing (right above the wheels is a bigger thud & sway!).

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 03 Aug 2018 19:39

And an ex-Navy aviator pointed out that the higher landing speed of the Mig29K is actually better for such 'bolter' conditions, especially on shorter length ACs like ours.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 03 Aug 2018 21:36

Khalsa wrote:You make it sound a lot more historical than it is.
I would be over the moon if LCA Mk1 Navy becomes desi growler
6 Two Seater Mk1 Desi growlers
2 Trainers Mk1 (naturally two seaters)

2 Desi Growlers per aircraft carrier i.e VikA and VikT
2 kept on shore for rotation / attrition/ replacement / land based strike role.


At least we can dream plausibly now. :-D

A NLCA growler will be a huge force multiplier. Imagine an 300 NM secure bubble over the entire carrier group. That is an immense force multiplier.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby prasannasimha » 03 Aug 2018 23:05

Read that trials on Vikramaditya are planned towards year end but could not find the Tweet again!

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 04 Aug 2018 01:02

Or thereabouts.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby rajsunder » 04 Aug 2018 03:38

disha wrote:
Khalsa wrote:You make it sound a lot more historical than it is.
I would be over the moon if LCA Mk1 Navy becomes desi growler
6 Two Seater Mk1 Desi growlers
2 Trainers Mk1 (naturally two seaters)

2 Desi Growlers per aircraft carrier i.e VikA and VikT
2 kept on shore for rotation / attrition/ replacement / land based strike role.


At least we can dream plausibly now. :-D

A NLCA growler will be a huge force multiplier. Imagine an 300 NM secure bubble over the entire carrier group. That is an immense force multiplier.

ECM/EW Jets are always twin engined(American). If we see the evolution of these jets, they have always been huge jets, be it EF-111 or EA-6B or the latest EF-18G. I even read that other than the Anti Radiation missiles and the standard gun, they do not carry any other defensive aids.

So to sum it up, we need a Twin engined NLCA to have a basic version of desi growler.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 04 Aug 2018 03:58

prasannasimha wrote:Read that trials on Vikramaditya are planned towards year end but could not find the Tweet again!



Here

https://twitter.com/defence_news/status ... 71360?s=19

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby chola » 04 Aug 2018 04:05

rajsunder wrote:
disha wrote:
At least we can dream plausibly now. :-D

A NLCA growler will be a huge force multiplier. Imagine an 300 NM secure bubble over the entire carrier group. That is an immense force multiplier.

ECM/EW Jets are always twin engined(American). If we see the evolution of these jets, they have always been huge jets, be it EF-111 or EA-6B or the latest EF-18G. I even read that other than the Anti Radiation missiles and the standard gun, they do not carry any other defensive aids.

So to sum it up, we need a Twin engined NLCA to have a basic version of desi growler.


Yes, the AC needs to be able take off with a load of pods. It is not possible to build the entire suite integral to the airframe.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby chola » 04 Aug 2018 04:13

I would be happy even if the NLCA is a trainer for the IN’s carrier pilot corps. There is a weight issue to begin so I am realistic about that.

Indian Growler tbh must come from the MKI (there I go again!) That is the one plane we make with the TWR to ski-jump off a STOBAR ramp carrying an useful load.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 04 Aug 2018 05:32

That or a twin engined nlca sla mirage 4k

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 04 Aug 2018 05:46

rajsunder wrote:ECM/EW Jets are always twin engined(American). If we see the evolution of these jets, they have always been huge jets, be it EF-111 or EA-6B or the latest EF-18G. I even read that other than the Anti Radiation missiles and the standard gun, they do not carry any other defensive aids.

So to sum it up, we need a Twin engined NLCA to have a basic version of desi growler.


As I understand in summation "all American ECM/EW jets are twin engined, ergo for a basic desi version we need twin engined NLCA".

It is an interesting take since we are actually forgetting the desi factors. IN does not have a carrier battle group like US has. Neither the requirements of US. Other than in 1971, no IN aircraft carrier was used for offensive purposes. And uses helicopters for ASW and AEW.

Hence to say that NLCA cannot take current ASW/AEW since it is not twin engined like American is orthogonal logic.

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Re: Naval LCA - News and Discussion

Postby disha » 04 Aug 2018 05:56

chola wrote:Yes, the AC needs to be able take off with a load of pods. It is not possible to build the entire suite integral to the airframe.


Load out of number of pods to do exactly what? Note that one does not have to have a TFTA khan like growler in NLCA. One has to have a ASW/AEW suit to the current needs of the IN. If the current needs are met by helicopters in ASW/AEW then it can be met by NLCA as well.


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