Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous - Aug 2016

[nachiket]

Hello everyone, Glad to be here. Have been a lurker for a very long time. Hoping to learn from the gurus here

Hello and welcome to BRF. We require members to have Human sounding names. Please pick a human name for yourself and let us know. We will change your username accordingly.

[Naresh_K]

Hello everyone, Glad to be here. Have been a lurker for a very long time. Hoping to learn from the gurus here

Hello and welcome to BRF. We require members to have Human sounding names. Please pick a human name for yourself and let us know. We will change your username accordingly.

Hello Nachiket. Thank you. Please change my name to Naresh.

[nachiket]

Hello and welcome to BRF. We require members to have Human sounding names. Please pick a human name for yourself and let us know. We will change your username accordingly.

Hello Nachiket. Thank you. Please change my name to Naresh.

That was already in use so I changed yours to Naresh_K. Please use the new username to log in.

[Avinandan]

Noob questions :
1) What is the average drag percentage benefit by using Conformal Hardpoints e.g. Eurofighter, KFX ? Is it worth it ?

2) What is the effort for designing and implementing the Conformal hardpoints for an existing production run aircrafts e.g. Rafale, LCA Mk1.

Any articles or reference would help.

[Vicky]

Do liquid fuel missiles like scalp, jassm, brahmos have fuel tank filled in factory and ok for years or the tanks are filled and drained for each mission?

Yes but not for every mission, their fuel is filled at factory with a defined shelf life. They need to open up the tank to inspect, clean and rectify corrosion in the tank and replace the fuel every few years (varies with fuel type and missile). Most of these fuels are corrosive and some amount of corrosion still happens even on tanks made of the most exotic materials.

Even for solid fuel missiles, some maintenance is required every few years. Solid cores can develop cracks in the depths of the fuel core and can lead to unstable burn or unexpected behaviour if ignited. The cores are inspected for cracks using x-ray and other non-destructive methods every few years. The core liners, igniters, thrust chambers also need to be inspected and maintained. Smaller missiles are stored in hermetically sealed Nitrogen canisters at positive gauge pressure to prevent the likelihood of some of these issues.

[VickyAvinash]

Noob pooch.

How are the batteries charged in smart weapons? Are these kept charged all the time or only before launching?

[konaseema]

How do I upload an image that I have stored in my laptop? Is it possible? Thanks!!!

[Bala Vignesh]

How do I upload an image that I have stored in my laptop? Is it possible? Thanks!!!

You'll first have to upload it to a image hosting site like imgur, Flickr, etc and then share the link to the image from there using th img tags.

[konaseema]

How do I upload an image that I have stored in my laptop? Is it possible? Thanks!!!

You'll first have to upload it to a image hosting site like imgur, Flickr, etc and then share the link to the image from there using th img tags.

T

Thanks a lot!!!

[rajsunder]

How is it that Boeing 737 AEW&CE-7 Wedgetail a 360 degree capable craft and our NETRA is not?

[souravB]

How is it that Boeing 737 AEW&CE-7 Wedgetail a 360 degree capable craft and our NETRA is not?

Design, Power requirement, time etc drive capability.
NETRA AAAU was designed for the EMB145 & to quickly churn out numbers the design have not been tinkered with.
Power requirement is also another factor since AAAU is an S-band radar & the tophat MESA is L-band.
But as IR said, CABS might be putting a front looking array to minimize the blindzone.

[Pratyush]

How is it that Boeing 737 AEW&CE-7 Wedgetail a 360 degree capable craft and our NETRA is not?

Because the Wedgetail was designed as a 360 system. The Netra was not.

[JyotiSRC]

I am a newbie - layman at the best. I have one question (however silly it might for the experts) :

Why don't we build submarines with FRP / composite hulls? Such hulls would be lighter, stronger and can be more stealthy in terms of magnetic and sound tracking.

[BenG]

Hi Everybody!
I'm new to the forum. Being a lurker unbale to interact was killing me. Thank u @indranil for approving my registration. Since I started my Engineering I was interested in aircraft, I have followed all high volume indigenous and imported weapons programs for last 15 years and BRF has been a guilty pleasure of mine.
Following Tejas and AMCA programs is my favorite pass-time. Here is even a blog I wrote on Tejas 10 years back which sadly was almost accurate except for the happy conclusion I derived. https://benithisrael.blogspot.com/2010/ ... ed-to.html
Hoping to have pleasant interactions with everybody

[VickyAvinash]

Have not seen any post by Chetak sir lately. Hope he is doing well and it is just intentional lull.

[Aldonkar]

Have not seen any post by Chetak sir lately. Hope he is doing well and it is just intentional lull.

I have been thinking the same. Chetak and I have often differed on several issues but I miss his acerbic comments.

[nachiket]

Have not seen any post by Chetak sir lately. Hope he is doing well and it is just intentional lull.

I have been thinking the same. Chetak and I have often differed on several issues but I miss his acerbic comments.

There was a technical issue with his account. He should be back soon.

[VickyAvinash]

Thanks Nachiket

[rajsunder]

Does anyone know how much aviation fuel is consumed at cruising height compared to a low level flight?
I need this as I have a hypothesis about Israeli attack on Iraqi nuke reactor during 1980's.

The official word is that the F-16's flew at about 50-100 feet to escape saudi radar. But it would not have been possible for them to fly at low level and still make it to Iraq from Israel without refueling over saudi air space.

My Hypothesis is that Saudi worked with Israel air force and even provided refueling for Israeli F-16's either on land or in air in Saudi air space.

[Aditya_V]

Exactly, it would not have been Saudi and GCC interests if Saddam could even have a dirty bomb which can be fired from Scuds, I doubt the French and under Saddam brutal regime would have made a working bomb. But adirty bomb with Scuds would have been enough for him to declare him the Caliph. So Saudis were probably in on the strike

[ramana]

WWII US operations in Burma.

https://arsof-history.org/articles/v2n3 ... age_1.html

[rajsunder]

Can we build our own deep space network by having three Geo Stationary Satellites that host big dish spaced 120 degrees apart?

[raghuk]

Am unable to find the link for BRF dictionary. Is the site down? Can someone please post a link here.
Thanks!

[nachiket]

Am unable to find the link for BRF dictionary. Is the site down? Can someone please post a link here.
Thanks!

The link is https://sites.google.com/site/brfdictionary/ but the site appears to be removed. Unfortunately, the only BRF user I know of who had access to and updated the site was ArmenT and he hasn't posted here in 7 years.

[chetak]

Does anyone know how much aviation fuel is consumed at cruising height compared to a low level flight?
I need this as I have a hypothesis about Israeli attack on Iraqi nuke reactor during 1980's.

The official word is that the F-16's flew at about 50-100 feet to escape saudi radar. But it would not have been possible for them to fly at low level and still make it to Iraq from Israel without refueling over saudi air space.

My Hypothesis is that Saudi worked with Israel air force and even provided refueling for Israeli F-16's either on land or in air in Saudi air space.

rajsunder ji,

a bit late in responding but I saw this post only a few minutes ago

fuel burn depends on many conditions that are external to the aircraft but generally speaking a better fuel burn is achieved at height , than in low level flight

apparently, per some reports, the israelis tucked in very close behind a regular scheduled flight and flew most of the way obscured in the radar shadow of that commercial flight.

That commercial flight would have been at, my best guess would be 30K + feet, which is where a great majority of the the commercial guys like to be, because of an economical fuel burn and hopefully favorable winds to boost their speed



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYWGurt3sg


Osirak 40 Years Later: Historical Reflections on the Raid






Forty years ago this June, one of the monumental moments in the nuclear history of the Middle East, and the world, took place when Israeli bombers flew in and destroyed the Osirak nuclear facility in Iraq. Known as Operation Opera or Operation Babylon, the Osirak air raid was a surprise airstrike conducted by the Israeli air force on June 7, 1981 – just 17 km from the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, resulting in the destruction of an unfinished Iraqi nuclear facility and effectively ending the country’s nuclear program. The consequences of this attack were great at the time, but continue to be incredibly relevant today, particularly in light of recent accusations of an Israeli attack on an Iranian nuclear facility earlier this year.

Featuring newly uncovered archival materials from all over the world, this half-day conference will explore the nature of the event as it unfolded, the Reagan administration’s reaction from Washington, the forces at play that led to the Israeli decision, and, in a roundtable discussion, the consequences and implications that linger to this day. Speakers at the panels will include scholars from the US, Europe, Israel, and the former Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister for Energy Affairs, Dr. Hussain Al-Shahristani.


rajsunder ji, if you have any further clarifications, please post in the appropriate thread and we can take it forward there

[chetak]

Exactly, it would not have been Saudi and GCC interests if Saddam could even have a dirty bomb which can be fired from Scuds, I doubt the French and under Saddam brutal regime would have made a working bomb. But adirty bomb with Scuds would have been enough for him to declare him the Caliph. So Saudis were probably in on the strike

Aditya ji,


I refer you to

https://www.amazon.com/Raid-Sun-Inside- ... 20of%20how







and



https://www.amazon.com/First-Strike-Exc ... _sidesheet







and also, please see ....


https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book ... ears-later



Aditya ji, if you have any further clarifications, please post in the appropriate thread and we can take it forward there

[nachiket]

Does anyone know how much aviation fuel is consumed at cruising height compared to a low level flight?
I need this as I have a hypothesis about Israeli attack on Iraqi nuke reactor during 1980's.

The official word is that the F-16's flew at about 50-100 feet to escape saudi radar. But it would not have been possible for them to fly at low level and still make it to Iraq from Israel without refueling over saudi air space.

My Hypothesis is that Saudi worked with Israel air force and even provided refueling for Israeli F-16's either on land or in air in Saudi air space.

apparently, per some reports, the israelis tucked in very close behind a regular scheduled flight and flew most of the way obscured in the radar shadow of that commercial flight.

Lots of murky stuff surrounding the raid. Apparently King Hussein of Jordan was on his private yacht in the Gulf of Aqaba and he saw the Israeli aircraft overfly his yacht. He identified them as Israeli and supposedly even correctly deduced that they were going to attack Osirak and sent a message to his government to warn the Iraqis. But somehow due to a "miscommunication" that message never reached Iraq. Wonder why he did not ask the Jordanian AF to intercept them.

There is also the story about Israeli pilots fooling the Jordanians and Saudis by speaking in Arabic with different accents on radio which I also find unbelievable. But I am certain they did not fly at low altitude the entire distance. Would have been impossible even with 3 drop tanks on each aircraft.

[chetak]

apparently, per some reports, the israelis tucked in very close behind a regular scheduled flight and flew most of the way obscured in the radar shadow of that commercial flight.

Lots of murky stuff surrounding the raid. Apparently King Hussein of Jordan was on his private yacht in the Gulf of Aqaba and he saw the Israeli aircraft overfly his yacht. He identified them as Israeli and supposedly even correctly deduced that they were going to attack Osirak and sent a message to his government to warn the Iraqis. But somehow due to a "miscommunication" that message never reached Iraq. Wonder why he did not ask the Jordanian AF to intercept them.

There is also the story about Israeli pilots fooling the Jordanians and Saudis by speaking in Arabic with different accents on radio which I also find unbelievable. But I am certain they did not fly at low altitude the entire distance. Would have been impossible even with 3 drop tanks on each aircraft.

nachiket ji,


There used to be a defence oriented magazine called International defence review or some such name.

It was a magazine that was fairly easily available in many defence establishments and it was by subscription, and looked expensive

International Defense Review was established in 1968. It was published by Interavia SA (Geneva, Switzerland) until it was acquired by Jane's Publishing Group in 1987

I was an avid reader of this magazine and when I have some time, I will do a small post on the gist of that article (osirak raid), as I remember it.

what that article said was a bit different from the generally accepted narratives of that raid