Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Vips » 18 Jun 2018 18:09

ISRO clears GSAT-11 satellite for launch.

The ISRO has cleared for launch GSAT-11, the satellite which was recalled from Kourou in French Guinea for thorough checks, after losing contact with its another satellite that was launched from Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh in March this year, an official said.

The 5,700-kg GSAT-11 satellite was slated for launch on May 26 from Kourou, a site in South America which India uses to launch its heavy-weight satellite.

In a setback to the ISRO, the space agency lost contact with GSAT-6A after it was launched in March this year.

Although the ISRO has been trying to establish with GSAT-6A, a satellite meant for military communication, it has found little success. This also led to the ISRO recalling GSAT-11 for conducting thorough checks.

After a thorough check and additional tests, it was found fit for launch, the official said.

The space agency is now waiting for a slot from Arianespace, the company which will launch the satellite, the official added.
Last edited by SSridhar on 19 Jun 2018 07:33, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected the URL title

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 18 Jun 2018 19:33

^
Good news, any update on GSLV Mark 3 D-2, with GSAT-29? There seems to be a silence on this one!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby dinesha » 19 Jun 2018 00:37

India’s desi GPS ‘NavIC’ all set to navigate you
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 639096.cms

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 19 Jun 2018 02:41

^
Doesn't give a timeline for the accessibility of the Indian GPS/NAVIC for the general population. Tomorrow, 3 months, 6 months?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSridhar » 19 Jun 2018 07:34

Varoon Shekhar wrote:^
Good news, any update on GSLV Mark 3 D-2, with GSAT-29? There seems to be a silence on this one!

It is August.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby kit » 19 Jun 2018 20:07

the Navic has about 7 to 8 sats, how many satellites do you need to get a similar accuracy on a global scale ? .. the Navic seems to offer much higher accuracy than GPS or GLONASS for the subcontinent.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby JayS » 19 Jun 2018 20:18

kit wrote:the Navic has about 7 to 8 sats, how many satellites do you need to get a similar accuracy on a global scale ? .. the Navic seems to offer much higher accuracy than GPS or GLONASS for the subcontinent.


All the existing systems use 24-27 sats as of now to cover the globe (may this is some kind of optimized number in real life) but theoretically the number would be dependent on the orbit. Accuracy is not only function of number of satellites but also signal frequency. Min 4 are needed for location. You can improve accuracy by either increasing frequency of signal or by taking into consideration more satellites. I think there have been attempts to use satellites from multiple constellations to improve on accuracy too. I remember someone posted here about one such study where they used one of the IRNSS sat which is visible from Scandinavia as well along with GPS et al.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Suraj » 19 Jun 2018 21:46

Is there any recent news on the government making it mandatory on the part of mobile and navigation systems makers to license the NAVIC IP in their phones, in order for them to be eligible to sell their products in India ?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 19 Jun 2018 22:46

SSridhar wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:^
Good news, any update on GSLV Mark 3 D-2, with GSAT-29? There seems to be a silence on this one!

It is August.


Good! ISRO just announced a PSLV launch in August, so then can we expect a GSLV Mark 3 launch within a few weeks of that one?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 19 Jun 2018 22:49

Suraj wrote:Is there any recent news on the government making it mandatory on the part of mobile and navigation systems makers to license the NAVIC IP in their phones, in order for them to be eligible to sell their products in India ?

No, and in my opinion, it will be a very arbitrary law. NAVIC doesn't need legal crutches to succeed. It will succeed on its own if it can provide better accuracy than GPS.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Suraj » 20 Jun 2018 03:52

Trikaal wrote:
Suraj wrote:Is there any recent news on the government making it mandatory on the part of mobile and navigation systems makers to license the NAVIC IP in their phones, in order for them to be eligible to sell their products in India ?

No, and in my opinion, it will be a very arbitrary law. NAVIC doesn't need legal crutches to succeed. It will succeed on its own if it can provide better accuracy than GPS.

Wrong. For our market, we make others dependent on our standards. Pay to play.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Neshant » 20 Jun 2018 09:23

Suraj wrote:Wrong. For our market, we make others dependent on our standards. Pay to play.


+1

All countries use their market size and power to tilt the balance in their favor.
India would be foolish not to do so.
Today they will use NAVIC in India, tomorrow all products manufactured for South, South East Asia and the Middle East will be using it too.
That puts India in an advantageous position.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Hari Seldon » 20 Jun 2018 09:36

Regardless of influencing int'l standards, we should 'nudge' products used by Indians to be NAVIC compatible, using the full force of law if necessary.

Nice to know NAVIC cannot be manipulated, jammed or 'switched off' by outside powers at will, particularly in non-peace-time.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Suraj » 20 Jun 2018 12:53

It's not primarily about influencing international standards. Sure, having NAVIC as a mode along with GPS/GLONASS/Galileo/Beidou is good for when we expand NAVIC and want others to use it. The main goal is - as you state - an autonomous system outside of the control or manipulation of others. Another goal is the assertion of standards we develop, rather than utilizing those of others. With the second largest demographic market in the world, we need to develop and make other use our standards in order to do business on our territory. I hope GoI makes it a timebound requirement to make NAVIC the default positioning network for all phones/navigational equipment sold in India in a timebound manner.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 20 Jun 2018 13:38

Idk why people are so insecure about local products. NAVIC is an excellent system and companies will automatically adopt it, especially for newer models. If they don't, they will lose out to others who do. Soon u will see NAVIC compatibility being used as a USP to sell phones. Making laws for it is unnecessary. Besides, NAVIC was launched primarily for military navigation independence. Private usage is a secojdary, minor goal.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Suraj » 20 Jun 2018 13:47

It's clear you're talking about something completely unrelated. 'Insecure' is so far off from the subject discussed that it isn't even funny.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Hari Seldon » 20 Jun 2018 15:04

+1.

Also, not necessary that the better product win in the short to medium term (and hence die before it gets to the longterm only0. UPI's BHIM is soooo very convenient that by now i'd have thought the paytms of the world would've gone bellyup. But that's not how the world works in the short run.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 20 Jun 2018 16:04

Hari Seldon wrote:Also, not necessary that the better product win in the short to medium term (and hence die before it gets to the longterm only0. UPI's BHIM is soooo very convenient that by now i'd have thought the paytms of the world would've gone bellyup. But that's not how the world works in the short run.

And yet, if u checkd a smartphone at random, u will find BHIM there.All that without the need to pass unnecessary regulations.

Actually, Paytm is quite different from BHIM and offers a lot more functionality so isn't likely to go belly up anytime soon. BHIM just offers bank-to-bank transactions while Paytm is a virtual wallet. Tez is more a direct competitor for BHIM than Paytm. Now consider how often u see Tez on a phone vs BHIM.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 20 Jun 2018 16:10

Suraj wrote:It's clear you're talking about something completely unrelated. 'Insecure' is so far off from the subject discussed that it isn't even funny.


If the subject being discussed is Indian govt passing regulations to make NAVIC licensing mandatory, then I think I am on topic about the insecurity being projected by such a thought of providing legal crutches to a home grown system that we do not believe will succeed without it.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby JayS » 20 Jun 2018 17:02

Trikaal wrote:
Suraj wrote:It's clear you're talking about something completely unrelated. 'Insecure' is so far off from the subject discussed that it isn't even funny.


If the subject being discussed is Indian govt passing regulations to make NAVIC licensing mandatory, then I think I am on topic about the insecurity being projected by such a thought of providing legal crutches to a home grown system that we do not believe will succeed without it.


Its not about insecurity about promotion of one system or its commercial success. Its about ensuring uniform implementation of a system like NAVIC which will be a base for a gamut of applications. Rather that having to deal with a mess of plethora of configurations which may or may not support NAVIC or one or the other compatible systems, its better to enforce uniform usage of NAVIC everywhere so GOI can reliably push NAVIC based systems on large scale. Also ready availability of NAVIC compatible HW in every device will allow developers of pvt-ly owned systems/apps to use NAVIC without again having to deal with compatibility issues. The easier you make the implementation the faster will be the adoption and quicker will be reduction of dependance from foreign owned system.

There will be no real incentive for average joe to stop using GPS and switch to IRNSS and nor for the industry (cellphones for ex) to include it in their products for quite a while. But if GOI enforces the regulation within 2yrs every damn device will have NAVIC compatibility.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby souravB » 20 Jun 2018 17:18

Let's do a Scenario vs Problems on NAVIC

Scenario: GOI asks all chip manufacturer to include/have NAVIC chip.
Problem1: If the device only has NAVIC chip, it will be pretty useless outside a range.
Problem2: If it has GPS+NAVIC, cost of the device will increase (in cases by 1000Rs.)
Problem3: Google, Apple et al. will have to make changes to codes to include NAVIC and that is going to take long time.

Scenario: Everybody acquiesces to GOI demand.
Problem1: ISRO has to release the IP to meet huuuuge demand
Problem2: is the infrastructure robust enough to service such a large user base?
Problem3: with a few tweaks, it can be an effective tool for tracking people and GOI have a piss poor record for maintaining citizen privacy.

Lets look into some potential advantages
Advantage1: If the device manufacturers start to sell devices hardware specific to Indian market, they might think about producing it locally.
Advantage2: A few companies in India can become globally competitive by selling combined navigation chips.
Advantage3: all the other ones that has already been discussed

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby srin » 20 Jun 2018 18:13

souravB wrote:Let's do a Scenario vs Problems on NAVIC

Problem3: with a few tweaks, it can be an effective tool for tracking people and GOI have a piss poor record for maintaining citizen privacy.


How so ? Are we putting a transmitter or a receiver ?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Ashokk » 20 Jun 2018 18:59

souravB wrote:Problem2: If it has GPS+NAVIC, cost of the device will increase (in cases by 1000Rs.)

Could you explain the basis of this calculation?
souravB wrote:Problem1: ISRO has to release the IP to meet huuuuge demand
Problem2: is the infrastructure robust enough to service such a large user base?
Problem3: with a few tweaks, it can be an effective tool for tracking people and GOI have a piss poor record for maintaining citizen privacy.

Could you also elaborate on what you mean by "ISRO has to release the IP to meet huuuuge demand"? The specifications of the signal are already available in public domain. Also interested to know how a receive only technology can become "an effective tool for tracking people".

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Raveen » 20 Jun 2018 19:46

souravB wrote:Let's do a Scenario vs Problems on NAVIC

Scenario: GOI asks all chip manufacturer to include/have NAVIC chip.
Problem1: If the device only has NAVIC chip, it will be pretty useless outside a range.
Problem2: If it has GPS+NAVIC, cost of the device will increase (in cases by 1000Rs.)
Problem3: Google, Apple et al. will have to make changes to codes to include NAVIC and that is going to take long time.

Scenario: Everybody acquiesces to GOI demand.
[b]Problem1: ISRO has to release the IP to meet huuuuge demand[/b]
Problem2: is the infrastructure robust enough to service such a large user base?
Problem3: with a few tweaks, it can be an effective tool for tracking people and GOI have a piss poor record for maintaining citizen privacy.

Lets look into some potential advantages
Advantage1: If the device manufacturers start to sell devices hardware specific to Indian market, they might think about producing it locally.
Advantage2: A few companies in India can become globally competitive by selling combined navigation chips.
Advantage3: all the other ones that has already been discussed


You might want to go read up about how the technology works to clear up those basic doubts, and how others like GLONASS are built right into the A11s and Snapdragons that power your mobile devices. The bolded statements show that you have a fundamental misunderstanding on how any of this actually works.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby souravB » 20 Jun 2018 20:11

Ashokk wrote:
souravB wrote:Problem2: If it has GPS+NAVIC, cost of the device will increase (in cases by 1000Rs.)

Could you explain the basis of this calculation?

Currently there is no navigation chip that has NAVIC receiver, they have to put it in along with GPS, (maybe) GLONASS et al. They come well integrated into Motherboard of the device and to add something, there are certain bits of costs involved in designing, procuring and the whole 9 yard. That cost has to come from the end-user. And in some cases it might cost 1000 Rs extra for an earlier 20k device (call it OEM greed).
Ashokk wrote:
souravB wrote:Problem1: ISRO has to release the IP to meet huuuuge demand
Problem2: is the infrastructure robust enough to service such a large user base?
Problem3: with a few tweaks, it can be an effective tool for tracking people and GOI have a piss poor record for maintaining citizen privacy.

Could you also elaborate on what you mean by "ISRO has to release the IP to meet huuuuge demand"? The specifications of the signal are already available in public domain.

Currently only ISRO has the requisite technical informations that is necessary to build the receiver, if they want global companies to build the receivers they have to release every information like the firmware details not only the specification of the signal which to be honest is just the frequency.
They can release it and for the sake of global spirit which I wish they do but then it wouldn't be anything profitable for them. Another way they could go is free license Indian firms which I have listed in Advantages. But in both cases, it is unlikely only BEL would be capable of supplying receivers to OEM.
Ashokk wrote:Also interested to know how a receive only technology can become "an effective tool for tracking people".

Every mobile phone comes with a MSDN number which paired with a Motherboard ID and consecutively NAVIC receiver ID can be pinged and get the location. That's how you can be tracked, whether you want it or not.
Is it a very easy thing to do? Hell No!
Does GOI has the capability and willingness to do it? They sure do now with NAVIC.
Last edited by souravB on 20 Jun 2018 20:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby souravB » 20 Jun 2018 20:25

Raveen wrote:
You might want to go read up about how the technology works to clear up those basic doubts, and how others like GLONASS are built right into the A11s and Snapdragons that power your mobile devices. The bolded statements show that you have a fundamental misunderstanding on how any of this actually works.

On the risk of sounding rude, Really!!!
Do you really think the Navigation chips are incorporated in a Micro-Controller architechture? There is nothing called built right into it, the NCs (yes those are also called chips) are integrated into the motherboard, and to integrate it somebody has to make it, separately.
Please refrain from pointing wrong in something that you do not understand and also in your words. You could have asked me for an explanation.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby souravB » 20 Jun 2018 20:55

srin wrote:
souravB wrote:Let's do a Scenario vs Problems on NAVIC

Problem3: with a few tweaks, it can be an effective tool for tracking people and GOI have a piss poor record for maintaining citizen privacy.


How so ? Are we putting a transmitter or a receiver ?

Receiver. It just needs to receive signal for triangulation to work. The transmitter is your normal phone radio which talks with the cellular service. Alone they are not precise for tracking, together they can track you precisely.
What I meant by the above sentence is GOI can track you specifically if it so wishes now, because both part of the puzzle is in place.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Suraj » 20 Jun 2018 21:05

Trikaal wrote:If the subject being discussed is Indian govt passing regulations to make NAVIC licensing mandatory, then I think I am on topic about the insecurity being projected by such a thought of providing legal crutches to a home grown system that we do not believe will succeed without it.

You’re not even close to being on topic . In fact the topic I originally began is not about ‘better’ or ‘worse’ at all , except to you . So please, stop . You think it’s a discussion about qualitative comparisons . It isn’t .

The imposition of a technological standard using market control is an essential part of having control over the technological ecosystem of that economy .

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Raveen » 20 Jun 2018 21:31

souravB wrote:
Raveen wrote:
You might want to go read up about how the technology works to clear up those basic doubts, and how others like GLONASS are built right into the A11s and Snapdragons that power your mobile devices. The bolded statements show that you have a fundamental misunderstanding on how any of this actually works.

On the risk of sounding rude, Really!!!
Do you really think the Navigation chips are incorporated in a Micro-Controller architechture? There is nothing called built right into it, the NCs (yes those are also called chips) are integrated into the motherboard, and to integrate it somebody has to make it, separately.
Please refrain from pointing wrong in something that you do not understand and also in your words. You could have asked me for an explanation.



You do realize Snapdragon isn't just a chip, but the whole package (according to Qualcomm, but what do they know, right?)...and it includes A-GPS, GLONASS. If only you'd read faster than you post.

Since you can't seem to do basic research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Snapdragon

"Snapdragon system on chip products typically include a graphics processing unit (GPU), a global positioning system (GPS) and a cellular modem integrated into a single package."
"Snapdragon is a suite of system on a chip (SoC) semiconductor products for mobile devices designed and marketed by Qualcomm Technologies Inc. The Snapdragon central processing unit (CPU) uses the ARM RISC instruction set, and a single SoC may include multiple CPU cores, a graphics processing unit (GPU), a wireless modem, and other software and hardware to support a smartphone's global positioning system (GPS), camera, gesture recognition and video. Snapdragon semiconductors are embedded in devices of various systems, including Android and Windows Phone devices."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Q ... 45_and_850

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2011/ ... your-phone

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/ ... cessor-and

"With these optimized software enhancements, the Qualcomm® IZat™ location services platform now utilizes up to six satellite constellations concurrently without incremental device hardware or cost. Users now benefit from more than 80 different satellites when calculating global position for navigation or location-based applications. The addition of another GNSS is intended to provide more accurate location performance faster time-to-first-fix, and improved robustness all over the world, particularly in challenging urban environments where the combination of narrow streets and tall buildings can reduce accuracy."

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/izat
"Using GPS, GLONASS, and BeiDou satellites, IZat location technologies pinpoint your position anywhere in the world, even in challenging urban environments. This provides always-on location awareness without draining your battery - Built Right In
Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ processors come equipped with IZat location technologies, so your Snapdragon-enabled device can always point you in the right direction."
Last edited by Raveen on 20 Jun 2018 21:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Picklu » 20 Jun 2018 21:40

souravB wrote:
Ashokk wrote:Also interested to know how a receive only technology can become "an effective tool for tracking people".

Every mobile phone comes with a MSDN number which paired with a Motherboard ID and consecutively NAVIC receiver ID can be pinged and get the location. That's how you can be tracked, whether you want it or not.
Is it a very easy thing to do? Hell No!
Does GOI has the capability and willingness to do it? They sure do now with NAVIC.

How is this different from a phone already having GPS and GLONASS receiver? What additional risk to the privacy of common public suffers from GOI when NAVIC is incorporated?
Not doubting your technical knowledge but may be you should stop thinking about technology alone and start thinking in terms of operations which combines technology with process and people.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Raveen » 20 Jun 2018 21:50

Picklu wrote:
souravB wrote:Every mobile phone comes with a MSDN number which paired with a Motherboard ID and consecutively NAVIC receiver ID can be pinged and get the location. That's how you can be tracked, whether you want it or not.
Is it a very easy thing to do? Hell No!
Does GOI has the capability and willingness to do it? They sure do now with NAVIC.

How is this different from a phone already having GPS and GLONASS receiver? What additional risk to the privacy of common public suffers from GOI when NAVIC is incorporated?
Not doubting your technical knowledge but may be you should stop thinking about technology alone and start thinking in terms of operations which combines technology with process and people.



In order to track you, the government would either have to know your specific IMEI (which can be spoofed anyway), or know your phone number, in which case cell tower triangulation alone can get you within a handful of blocks of you. This is why satellite phones are used by the pigs calling home - less reliance on Indian infra = less chance of getting cut off/located.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Picklu » 20 Jun 2018 21:55

Raveen wrote:
Picklu wrote:How is this different from a phone already having GPS and GLONASS receiver? What additional risk to the privacy of common public suffers from GOI when NAVIC is incorporated?
Not doubting your technical knowledge but may be you should stop thinking about technology alone and start thinking in terms of operations which combines technology with process and people.



In order to track you, the government would either have to know your specific IMEI (which can be spoofed anyway), or know your phone number, in which case cell tower triangulation alone can get you within a handful of blocks of you. This is why satellite phones are used by the pigs calling home - less reliance on Indian infra = less chance of getting cut off/located.


Exactly. No additional risk than the current situation. And the police track criminals/runaways quite easily without such technical complication. The entire scenario of invasion of privacy by GOI is rather contrived.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby souravB » 20 Jun 2018 22:34

Raveen wrote:
souravB wrote:On the risk of sounding rude, Really!!!
Do you really think the Navigation chips are incorporated in a Micro-Controller architechture? There is nothing called built right into it, the NCs (yes those are also called chips) are integrated into the motherboard, and to integrate it somebody has to make it, separately.
Please refrain from pointing wrong in something that you do not understand and also in your words. You could have asked me for an explanation.



You do realize Snapdragon isn't just a chip, but the whole package (according to Qualcomm, but what do they know, right?)...and it includes A-GPS, GLONASS. If only you'd read faster than you post.

Since you can't seem to do basic research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Snapdragon

"Snapdragon system on chip products typically include a graphics processing unit (GPU), a global positioning system (GPS) and a cellular modem integrated into a single package."
"Snapdragon is a suite of system on a chip (SoC) semiconductor products for mobile devices designed and marketed by Qualcomm Technologies Inc. The Snapdragon central processing unit (CPU) uses the ARM RISC instruction set, and a single SoC may include multiple CPU cores, a graphics processing unit (GPU), a wireless modem, and other software and hardware to support a smartphone's global positioning system (GPS), camera, gesture recognition and video. Snapdragon semiconductors are embedded in devices of various systems, including Android and Windows Phone devices."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Q ... 45_and_850

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2011/ ... your-phone

https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/ ... cessor-and

"With these optimized software enhancements, the Qualcomm® IZat™ location services platform now utilizes up to six satellite constellations concurrently without incremental device hardware or cost. Users now benefit from more than 80 different satellites when calculating global position for navigation or location-based applications. The addition of another GNSS is intended to provide more accurate location performance faster time-to-first-fix, and improved robustness all over the world, particularly in challenging urban environments where the combination of narrow streets and tall buildings can reduce accuracy."

I cannot help but wonder where do all these big names like GPU, GPS, cellular modem are being placed. Oh Wait! I have already answered you, its that bold word that start with M. Now you may call me old fashioned for calling SoC a motherboard and you may be right but I have been taught that motherboards are also chip.
please read this for future reference
http://www.eecg.toronto.edu/~ece1767/notes/pect9.pdf
Now since you might not have bothered to read what you yourself posted in a hurry to spite me
Qualcomm® IZat™ location services platform

it is their GNSS product they make and later integrate it onto their 'SoC'. And my point was Indian companies can also make this product with NAVIC incorporated. whether Qualcomm incorporates said product is another set of discussion.
Now you can PM me if you need furthur clarification, cz I don't want this thread to go OT.
P.S. I can type in a hurry cause I do not need to Google things while I type but I took more time to type this post because I googled to give you a reference.
P.P.S. a tip, do not reference wikipedia always. It can contain confusing and sometimes wrong information.

Ashokk
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Ashokk » 20 Jun 2018 22:36

souravB wrote:Currently there is no navigation chip that has NAVIC receiver, they have to put it in along with GPS, (maybe) GLONASS et al. They come well integrated into Motherboard of the device and to add something, there are certain bits of costs involved in designing, procuring and the whole 9 yard. That cost has to come from the end-user. And in some cases it might cost 1000 Rs extra for an earlier 20k device (call it OEM greed).

GPS & GLONASS receivers already exist in smartphones, adding NAVIC on top should not impact the cost too much. Russia mandated that all smartphones with GPS sold in Russia should also have GLONASS capability and there were no perceptible change in costs due to this.
souravB wrote:Currently only ISRO has the requisite technical informations that is necessary to build the receiver, if they want global companies to build the receivers they have to release every information like the firmware details not only the specification of the signal which to be honest is just the frequency.
They can release it and for the sake of global spirit which I wish they do but then it wouldn't be anything profitable for them. Another way they could go is free license Indian firms which I have listed in Advantages. But in both cases, it is unlikely only BEL would be capable of supplying receivers to OEM.

The NAVIC signal specifications are available in public domain. Anyone with the necessary knowledge can build a NAVIC receiver and there are already a couple of companies offering receiver kits, there is no license involved.
souravB wrote:Every mobile phone comes with a MSDN number which paired with a Motherboard ID and consecutively NAVIC receiver ID can be pinged and get the location. That's how you can be tracked, whether you want it or not.
Is it a very easy thing to do? Hell No!
Does GOI has the capability and willingness to do it? They sure do now with NAVIC.

For the above scenario to happen the phone needs to be compromised either at the OS level or via a malicious app, I don't see what this has got to do with GOI, any individual with malicious intent can do it. By the same logic any phones with GPS are compromised as well.
As other posters have suggested, please do a bit of reading before posting.

Neela
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Neela » 20 Jun 2018 22:48

Rs.1000 for GPS IP in SoC?
~ $15 ? :rotfl:

Bluetooth Low energy for headphones sell at 65 cents. On SoC probably a few dollars.
I am in the wrong business :rotfl:


souravB
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby souravB » 21 Jun 2018 00:25

Ashokk wrote:GPS & GLONASS receivers already exist in smartphones, adding NAVIC on top should not impact the cost too much. Russia mandated that all smartphones with GPS sold in Russia should also have GLONASS capability and there were no perceptible change in costs due to this.

The NAVIC signal specifications are available in public domain. Anyone with the necessary knowledge can build a NAVIC receiver and there are already a couple of companies offering receiver kits, there is no license involved.

Cool. nice to see that ISRO released the details. Thanks. :)

Thakur_B
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Thakur_B » 21 Jun 2018 08:45

The whole Snapdragon 845 SoC sells for about $65. The lower ones belonging to 400 series as low as $20. The GPS receivers will have to be modified to decode Navic signals along with GPS Glonass and Beidou. No big deal. If the GoI makes it mandatory for smartphones to be Navic compatible, it will happen overnight.

JTull
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby JTull » 21 Jun 2018 17:31

Give tax break for Navic compatible phones and it'll be even faster!

Karthik S
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Karthik S » 21 Jun 2018 18:13

Or charge tariffs on phone companies that don't use our NAVIC.


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