Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arun » 30 Sep 2018 20:18

kurup wrote:Actually we are on a race with Israel ( a private firm in collaboration with Israeli space agency) to become the fourth country to soft land on moon .


Older article on the moon landing mission of Israeli firm SpaceIL piggybacking as a co-passenger on a SpaceX Falcon 9 which is to be launched sometime in December for a planned moon touchdown of Feb 13, 2019:

Israeli spacecraft aims for historic moon landing… within months

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jpremnath » 01 Oct 2018 03:43

Well, atleast we are launching on our own rocket!.... : /

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 01 Oct 2018 04:22

The rona-dhona on a private company from Israel is immense. I do not even understand the rona-dhona when a private company books a payload on another private company rocket and does some "science". Any private company is welcome to do that "science", except that they will not be doing the "science" for the benefit of the nation, but for its own private profit purposes. It is different from a 'national' program and yes there is immense difference here.

A private entity from another country and a national program from another country is not comparable in size and scope and achievement.

And one has to get out of this mindset of "space race". Space is vast and there is no "race", it was a cold war relic and cold war is over and hence that mindset needs to be discarded as well.

Of course our DDM will draw out into such mindsets so that desis can self-flagellate and state how 'weak ass' they are. There was a whine thread earlier and some of the posts from above need to go there.

I do not understand why we self-flagellate when ISRO has launched AstroSat. Or Mangalyaan. The goal was, is and should be on how best a nation can harness its resources to explore space for the benefit of man. If that requires setting up moon base to process raw material from near earth asteroids, so be it. Or discover new areas that enhance human's understanding of life and universe, so be it.

There is no prize for "hey I reached moon after I booked a launch on somebody's rocket"., it is like the "mountaineers" who pay and get carried by the gurkhas to everest.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Vips » 04 Oct 2018 23:18

Jan 30, not 3rd best date for Chandrayaan-2 launch: Review Panel.

In the most recent review meeting of Chandrayaan-2, scientists have recommended that January 30, not January 3 as Isro has now announced, will be the most optimal date for the launch of India’s second mission to Moon.

The review committee had looked into three dates that were conceived as the best for Isro in the January and March window that’s available for the launch. “One could achieve a launch on any date during this window, but generally scientists study various prospects and pick one date that is the best,” one scientist explained.

TOI has learnt reliably that the committee looked into January 3, January 30, and February 14 as the three dates for the launch and after all deliberations, it was said: “January 30 will be a good option for Chandrayaan-2 launch since there is a 27kg propellant advantage with respect to January 3 launch.”

Chandrayaan-2, unlike the first mission, involves a Lander soft-landing on the lunar surface and unloading a Rover to study and take measurements from the Moon, while the orbiter will go around the Earth’s satellite. Initially, the project was to be a joint mission with Russian, whose space agency Roscosmos was to supply the lander. However, that deal fell through and Isro decided to go solo.

Among other things discussed in the September 19 Comprehensive Technical Review (CTR) were the agreed parameters of the GSLV, a few tests required for the Vikas engine, need to carry out all the hardware and software failure test scenarios.

“The new configuration has seen a host of new systems being added, for which the algorithms will also change,” one source working with the project said.

Besides, the committee also looked into two issues of the crucial fifth engine that has been added as part of the new configuration of the Lander. First, the thermal management and second, prevention of hot gas entry to engine chamber through the nozzle exit.

TOI had reported in September that among the many challenges that Isro has to overcome was the fact that this engine—without which the project will not work in the new configuration—had to be requalified. The engine had failed a test earlier this year, but Isro Chairman Sivan K had clarified: “The test was wrongly done, the engine is fine and we will be able to use it.”

For the heat management, a conical heat shield has been preferred, which the project team has said can be accommodated, while several options are being worked out for the second issue (hot gas entry).

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby A Nandy » 07 Oct 2018 01:28

https://www.gatewayhouse.in/human-spaceflight/

India’s human spaceflight programme calls for a strong symbiosis between the country’s private sector, defence, and civilian agencies. The focus should be on indigenous development to preserve strategic autonomy.

The advanced nations of the present day grew off the eras of the last two major industrial revolutions – the third revolution of internet and semiconductors that began in the 1950s and the second revolution of Bessemer Steel and mass industrial production that began in the 1890s. The world now is on the cusp of the fourth industrial revolution – the age of cybernetics – and of de-globalisation and geopolitical multipolarity. As these seemingly discrete events occur simultaneously, advanced countries have begun reviewing their strategic technologies, which is even more crucial for their preparations and posturings for the age that is imminent.


https://www.gatewayhouse.in/venus-high-technology/

Radars have been able to provide a cloud-penetrating view of the surface of Venus. But the major challenge remains an extensive and sustained exploration of the surface by landers and rovers. One major reason for this is silicon’s limitations as a semi conductor. The search is on for suitable alternatives, such as silicon carbide, graphene and silicene, owing to these materials’ ability to operate at higher voltages, frequencies, temperatures, and energy efficiency levels, besides being of lighter mass[8] [9]. The silicon-based electronic circuits of the Venera and Pioneer landers lasted only an hour.

India possesses vibrant defense, oil and gas, and civilian-nuclear industrial sectors. The competencies of novel electronics and components, if proved on Venus, can provide a breakthrough for these sectors and India’s greater scientific-industrial complex too.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby srin » 08 Oct 2018 19:18

Donno about you guys, but this looks like a hit job.

The elephant in Isro’s room: the inside story of jumbo satellite’s recall
The Isro decision to bring the satellite back was then attributed to prudent precaution, especially since the space agency had lost contact with another satellite — the GSAT6A — on April 1. Not too long ago, Isro had also quietly confirmed the end of the operation of a remote-sensing satellite called RISAT1.

Communication with GSAT6A -- at 2,140kg a welterweight compared with the heavyweight GSAT11 – had snapped two days after it was launched from Sriharikota on March 29.

Against this backdrop, it was assumed till now that GSAT11 was being brought back purely because Isro did not want to take any chances as another failure would have been disastrous for the pride-pumping reputation of the Indian space establishment.


*At least four engineers had recommended without reservations that GSAT11 could go ahead for further operations, meaning it was ready for launch.

According to the records, one of the three engineers “expressed confidence that GSAT-11 can go ahead with rest of planned launch base operations”. The other two engineers said “GSAT-11 can be cleared for further operations”.

*The fourth engineer had explicitly cautioned that “there is a certain risk associated with bringing back GSAT-11 and the original quality can suffer. It is better to proceed with further operations as the configuration is robust enough”.

This is the first time it has come to light that some engineers had unhesitatingly recommended that the launch should go ahead. Isro officials later said it was not unusual for divergent opinions to be aired at such meetings, suggesting that too much should not be read into the opinion that was eventually overruled.

A section of the space establishment is suggesting that there is more to the postponement than an overcautious response prompted by the loss of GSAT6A. This section alleges that a foreign satellite service provider stands to extend its first-mover advantage and expand its commercial footprint in India because of the delay in launching GSAT11.

A senior space agency official said the recall and delay in the launch of GSAT11 would compel the state-run Bharat Sanchar Nigam Limited (BSNL) to consolidate its reliance on the foreign platform called Jupiter, made by the US-based Hughes Network Systems, to expand its broadband services across rural and urban areas.

A senior telecom industry executive told The Telegraph that BSNL had begun to offer its Jupiter-based services in 2017 and at least two public sector banks are already relying on it for rural connectivity.

Hughes had said Jupiter-powered services would be five times faster than any satellite Internet access available in India, offering speeds up to 100 Mbps.

Had ISRO launched GSAT11 on schedule and followed it up with GSAT20 in early 2019, Isro could have competed to provide BSNL similar services, a government official said.


Honestly, if I were the director of ISRO, I wouldn't do anything different. If GSAT11 was indeed launched and had the same issues, then the same authors would allege that ISRO caused it to crash. To allege malfide intentions, they need to clearly bring out who benefited.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby A Nandy » 11 Oct 2018 22:43

A Russian-American space crew have been forced to make an emergency landing in Kazakhstan after their Soyuz rocket suffered a failure shortly after launching from Russia’s Baikonur cosmodrome in one of the most serious space incidents in recent years.

Shaky footage from the capsule’s cabin seen during the live broadcast appeared to show objects floating mid-launch. The crew told mission control they felt weightless, an indication of a problem during that stage of the flight.

Agitated voices flooding the radio link between mission control and the capsule could be heard on the Nasa broadcast. Details and the exact sequence of events remain unclear, but shortly afterwards the crew initiated an abort and ejected their capsule from the rocket.

Judging by the time at which the failure took place, it involved separation of the rocket’s second stage – just before the ship would have ignited the third stage for its final kick to exit the atmosphere.


https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... ding-soyuz

The importance of an abort system all the way to orbit for our manned mission.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Kashi » 12 Oct 2018 05:18

Russian-American space crew? Do the sanctions not cover these?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arshyam » 12 Oct 2018 06:17

Then who'll take the Americans to their space station? :lol:

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Singha » 12 Oct 2018 06:23

elon musk will surely tweet about going into tony stark mode and deliver a abort system in two weeks :D like that shaky tube thing he flew to thailand with
the system needs a strong ABM SAM type thruster to pull crew capsule away from the main rocket and then divert thrusters to home in on programmed landing areas. kind of like the candlestick landers of musk baba.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Anant » 12 Oct 2018 09:07

Arshyam, Spacex, Boeing and Lockheed/ Martin are all building capsules. Astronaut teams for each have been chosen and include Sunita Williams. As much as this forum enjoys poking fun at, the rumors of the United States losing their ability to transport astronauts is greatly exaggerated. This includes replacement of the Russian RD-180 engines.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arshyam » 12 Oct 2018 22:22

Then let the sanctions begin... :)

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Vips » 13 Oct 2018 06:42

For India's Second Moon Mission In 2019, ISRO Tests Cryogenic Engine.

India successfully tested the cryogenic engine for the heavy rocket that would launch the country's second moon mission on January 3, 2019, the space agency said on Friday.

"The cryogenic engine of the Geo Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV MK-III) in the upper stage has been tested for the Chandrayaan-2 Mission," said the state-run Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) in a statement here.

The crucial test was conducted on Thursday for 25 seconds at the space agency's propulsion complex in Tamil Nadu's Mahendragiri, 685km southwest of Chennai.

"The upper stage of the heavy rocket is powered by cryogenic engine, which develops a nominal thrust of 186.36 kN (kilo Newton) with a specific impulse of 442 seconds in vacuum," noted the statement.

The super cooled engine operates on gas generator cycle using liquid oxygen and hydrogen (LOX & LH2) or oxidizer.

The test demonstrated steady state operation of engine," said the statement.

The flight acceptance hot test of the cryo was performed at the high-altitude test facility in the complex.

"The performance of all engine subsystems was observed to be normal during the hot test," added the statement.

The second lunar mission will be launched from the rocketport at Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh, about 90km northeast of Chennai, with a lander and rover a decade after the first moon mission in October 2008 around its orbit.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Anant » 13 Oct 2018 06:45

Isn't the GSLV-MKIII going up this October as well?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Kakarat » 13 Oct 2018 13:07

ISRO successfully tests Cryogenic Engine (CE-20) for GSLV Mk-III / Chandrayaan-2 Mission

The upper stage of GSLV MK-III vehicle is powered by Cryogenic Engine (CE)-20 which develops a nominal thrust of 186.36 kN with a specific impulse of 442 seconds in vacuum. The engine operates on gas generator cycle using LOX / LH2 propellants combination. The major subsystems of the engine are thrust chamber, gas generator, LOX and LH2 turbo pumps, igniters, thrust & mixture ratio control systems, Start-up system, control components and pyro valves. The fifth hardware of CE-20 integrated engine designated as E6 is earmarked for GSLV Mk-III M1-Chandrayaan 2 mission.

The flight acceptance hot test of E6 engine was successfully tested for 25 seconds at High Altitude Test facility, ISRO Propulsion Complex (IPRC), Mahendragiri on October 11, 2018. The test demonstrated steady state operation of engine. The performance of all engine subsystems were observed to be normal during the hot test.

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Haridas » 13 Oct 2018 23:45

Kakarat wrote:ISRO successfully tests Cryogenic Engine (CE-20) for GSLV Mk-III / Chandrayaan-2 Mission

. The fifth hardware of CE-20 integrated engine designated as E6 is earmarked for GSLV Mk-III M1-Chandrayaan 2 mission.

The flight acceptance hot test of E6 engine was successfully tested for 25 seconds at High Altitude Test facility, ISRO Propulsion Complex (IPRC), Mahendragiri on October 11, 2018
. The test demonstrated steady state operation of engine. The performance of all engine subsystems were observed to be normal during the hot test.


Confirms my recollection that the designated flight engine will be ground tested to be 100% as a sub-system good to go. Test burn duration of 25 sec, as againt hundreds of seconds of burn during flight. The Chandrayaan mission is v important.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 14 Oct 2018 22:05

Anant wrote:Isn't the GSLV-MKIII going up this October as well?


The GSLV Mark 3 D-2 with GSAT-29, and the PSLV C-43 with HySIS etc are now scheduled for mid-to late November. Very deflating, but there must be reasons- cyclonic storms, specific component/system testing, availability of satellite(s) etc. It's just that they seemed pretty gung-ho only 4 weeks ago, after the launch of the two UK satellites.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Anant » 15 Oct 2018 01:09

Thanks for the update Varoon. Better to be safe than sorry I guess.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arshyam » 15 Oct 2018 01:59

There has been a cyclone in the bay all of last week. There is a new weather system developing as we speak, and going by my driving experience over 300km today, it's pretty intense. So, ISRO did the right thing weather-wise.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arun » 15 Oct 2018 09:02

Varoon Shekhar wrote:
Anant wrote:Isn't the GSLV-MKIII going up this October as well?


The GSLV Mark 3 D-2 with GSAT-29, and the PSLV C-43 with HySIS etc are now scheduled for mid-to late November. Very deflating, but there must be reasons- cyclonic storms, specific component/system testing, availability of satellite(s) etc. It's just that they seemed pretty gung-ho only 4 weeks ago, after the launch of the two UK satellites.


Yes, ISRO was very gung ho in late September with media report indicating GSLV MK3-D2 / GSAT 29 was supposed to be launched in October. With half the month gone the silence is ominous. Wait and watch:

ISRO’s GSAT-29 launch in October

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 15 Oct 2018 09:37

Weather trumps satellite launches. Its always the case. So rescheduled.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 18 Oct 2018 22:24

Tender for SHAR visitors complex and viewing gallery.

https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/tenders/pt16-01-9501.pdf

Will be great to be able to go and book and see a launch live and they will have 1:1 mock up of ASLV to GSLN Mk3
They have a 1:1 mock up of PSLV in the space museum in VSSC and fairing of GSLV

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Singha » 18 Oct 2018 23:10

jhonny walker has sponsored a film on our mangalyaan project incl perhaps lookalikes of the key people involved including the ISRO chairman.
they have called it ISRA to keep from offending ISRO in the film. its far more accurate than what bollywood usually manages if a bit scoutish and clean cut.

worth the 23 mins boys


Mission Mars – A short film dedicated to India’s most inspiring story of progress. On September 24, 2014, India made history when India’s rover successfully began orbiting Mars, marking the country’s first venture into interplanetary space.

Johnnie Walker – The Journey is celebrating the story of India’s most inspiring walk with the launch of a short film Mission Mars: Keep Walking India.

This film marks the directorial debut of Imran Khan in association with Dharma Productions.

#MissonMars #KeepWalkingIndia #JohnnieWalkerTheJourney

Cast & Crew: Imran Khan, Karan Johar, Punit Malhotra, Prakash Belawadi, Abhishek Saha and Sonali Sachdev


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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Singha » 18 Oct 2018 23:12

we need more such films by hook or crook or drunken limp if need be :) .... need the whole "da right stuff" straight back crew cut narrative - nasa and russians have been doing that for decades. names like soyuz vostok titan delta shuttle cape canaveral baikonur are not products but valued brandnames. the creators and owners of these brands bask in the glory

just a week ago another commercial release on apollo11

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 19 Oct 2018 01:21

Singha wrote:jhonny walker has sponsored a film on our mangalyaan project incl perhaps lookalikes of the key people involved including the ISRO chairman.
they have called it ISRA to keep from offending ISRO in the film. its far more accurate than what bollywood usually manages if a bit scoutish and clean cut.

Does ISRO really get offended? I noticed this in the movie 'Parmanu' too. Why is it so? Wouldn't regular media mentions be good for them as it would glamorize careers in ISRO prompting more people to pursue it?

Anyways, 23 minutes well spent. Holy crap that was a lot of struggle and suspense they faced.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSridhar » 22 Oct 2018 05:01


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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 22 Oct 2018 21:24

^ The writer of the article should have mentioned ideology and philosophy, before making a one-to-one comparison. Also, it would have helped to bring up the actual funding of say, the Chinese space programme vis-a-vis the Indian. As well as the timelines and existing industrial infrastructure of the other space powers( including China) in relation to India. At least 3 of the space faring countries were obsessed with the military and geopolitical dimensions of space technology, and prestige, right from their beginnings. Not so India, where the emphasis has been on civilian applications of space technology. Only relatively recently has there been attention given to security applications of satellites.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Supratik » 22 Oct 2018 22:58

That Chindu article is a hatchet job based on the opinion of a single person.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 22 Oct 2018 23:18

I agree that this reads like a opinioned hatchet job.

But, from the outside, it does look like that we lack an ambitious and systematic route to higher capacity. I mean the PMO put in a timeline for the Human space flight. But where is the systematic timeline for the electric propulsion, SCE200, SC160/200 stage, SCE800, SC400/500 stage, ULV, HSP etc.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Picklu » 22 Oct 2018 23:32

Indranil wrote:I agree that this reads like a opinioned hatchet job.

But, from the outside, it does look like that we lack an ambitious and systematic route to higher capacity. I mean the PMO put in a timeline for the Human space flight. But where is the systematic timeline for the electric propulsion, SCE200, SC160/200 stage, SCE800, SC400/500 stage, ULV, HSP etc.


While all those stuff would give bigO to us nerds in this forum, the mango peepul would ask, "pagla gaya hai kya"

Indian in space is what ignites the public imagination.

Kenedy never asked for integrated circuit or memory foam or saturn 5 rocket. He asked for moon landing. Same reason.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 22 Oct 2018 23:58

I agree with putting a man in space being the common denominator. But are we augmenting space launch capability or capacity by virtue of it?

It worries me that putting three men in space will stretch ISROs resources till 2021. Electric propulsion, Stages for ULV/HLV/TSTO etc. are going to take a backseat for the time being.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Picklu » 23 Oct 2018 01:04

Indranil wrote:I agree with putting a man in space being the common denominator. But are we augmenting space launch capability or capacity by virtue of it?

It worries me that putting three men in space will stretch ISROs resources till 2021. Electric propulsion, Stages for ULV/HLV/TSTO etc. are going to take a backseat for the time being.


Putting a man in space would fill a serious gap in ISRO capabilities. They have to "man - rate" everything in that chain and that means a quantum jump in space capabilities.

While Electric propulsion etc would go to a back burner, I would venture a guess that filling the other gap would be more of a "strategic imperative".

And once that gap fills, any new capability that ISRO acquires would consider man rating from the design phase itself. So all is not lost. Yes, there would be delay in development of electric propulsion. But the ion engine, any time it comes after that, will come as man rated from day 1.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 23 Oct 2018 09:52

Electric propulsion is not being delayed. In fact it is very much there and in full swing.

Man rating itself brings a huge amount of technology benefits. It will accelerate semicryo program and also various other things like tracking etc etc

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 23 Oct 2018 10:00

Lets not forget that GSAT 9 is using electric propulsion for station keeping already

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 23 Oct 2018 11:03

prasannasimha wrote:Electric propulsion is not being delayed. In fact it is very much there and in full swing.

Man rating itself brings a huge amount of technology benefits. It will accelerate semicryo program and also various other things like tracking etc etc

Prasanna sir, the man in space mission is delaying semi cryo. They don’t have time to manrate a new SC200 stage. So they are going to manrate the L110 stage, which they had originally planned to phase out as soon as the SC stage stabilized. So, now they will phase it out after man rating it, or stick to a suboptimal solution for longer!

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 23 Oct 2018 14:03

Actually therw os no delay at al of SC200. It is going on as a separate program and the facilities for testing etc are going full swing.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Supratik » 23 Oct 2018 14:51

We should compare all STEM projects by per capita GDP as modern science is capital intensive. By that measure ISRO has no competitor. Ofcourse Indian govt orgs are not the most efficient and there is always scope for improvement. But with ISRO we are getting a good bang for the buck.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 23 Oct 2018 14:59

The test stand and other facilities for the semicryo project will be completed and then testing and certification will occur. One musr remember that the HSP program has been going albeit with low visibility for years. Additional funding will actually help accrlerate Mk3 and secondarily HLV. Budgetary allocation for HSP was given separately over and above existing allocation. None of tge other projecrs are under backburner. Each team works to complete its own target.GSAT 20 will be full electric propulsion based.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby AdityaM » 23 Oct 2018 15:34

https://www.isro.gov.in/flight-test-of- ... t-of-video

In this video of the Flight test of crew escape system, the crew pod is released from a height and free falls and splashes hard in the water. The same could happen somewhere over land as well.
So why let the crew pod land like a stone, rather than controlled descent till the very end. the free fall would injure a human occupant
I recall seeing a russian system video which which lands softly after parachutes are released

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gagan » 23 Oct 2018 21:32

There will be a retro rocket firing at the very end, for a soft landing, be it land or water
This module didn't have it yet


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