Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

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Indranil
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 30 Jan 2019 14:36


Very informative. Thank you very much. As I said before, this had completely flew under my radar.


Could not open this. Was prompted for username and password.

prasannasimha wrote:Dr Somnath in one interview also referred to it.

I know the talk you are referring to here, but he used stock image of a NASA test engine. So, I did not take it seriously.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby hnair » 30 Jan 2019 20:41

Recent inauguration of HSFC at ISRO HQ

Image

Note - size of capsule from mock-up

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 30 Jan 2019 21:47

Neela wrote:Prasanna Sir, the DLR paper refers to coking limit as one of the thermodynamic properties. Is this property related to soot formation?

One point.
Soot sharply negates resuability

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 30 Jan 2019 23:07

For those who are interested in astronomy etc.. this may be of interest:
Last date to enroll for this free introductory course on Astronomy & Astrophysics on @SWAYAMMHRD is 31 Jan.
https://swayam.gov.in/courses/5250-astronomy-and-astrophysics?fbclid=IwAR0Dts5YlBLFkTdI_YutzxQ89XZb1ts-LPiLw1RJF_-gZgpaoUtP8Qf3hGE

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 31 Jan 2019 09:43

Regarding the 10 Ton Metholox engine
What configurations could it be used.
Obviously as the final stage is one obvious use but since reusability is a primary driver what other configs could be done ?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 31 Jan 2019 10:02

Could this be it (C10)
Image

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 01 Feb 2019 04:36

Image


Is this the crew module?

Indranil
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 01 Feb 2019 04:40

Prasanna ji, that, or a drop in replacement for the CE7.5 on the Mk2.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby gaurav.p » 04 Feb 2019 14:49

Good overview webinar done part of Aeroindia on

"Indian Space Program & Future Technologies needed for Ground Aerospace Activities"


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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jaysimha » 05 Feb 2019 16:39

VISUALISATION OF EARTH OBSERVATION DATA AND ARCHIVAL SYSTEM
https://vedas.sac.gov.in/vedas/

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jaysimha » 05 Feb 2019 17:36

https://itca.org.in/satellite.html

Students’ Satellite Mission 2022
https://itca.org.in/downloads/Report.pdf

India-Israel Initiatives on Satellite Technology and Space Systems
https://itca.org.in/downloads/Competenc ... llites.pdf

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 05 Feb 2019 23:44

gaurav.p wrote:Good overview webinar done part of Aeroindia on

"Indian Space Program & Future Technologies needed for Ground Aerospace Activities"


Mention of metholox engine again. Plan to put RLV over the 1st and 2nd stage of GSLV. Schmatic shows the RLV to have two engines (possibly 2x10T metholox?).

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Snehashis » 06 Feb 2019 04:20

ISRO launches #GSAT31 onboard #Ariane5 launch vehicle #VA247 from French Guiana. - https://twitter.com/airnewsalerts/status/1092892618235699201

Here is the launch video. Lift-off then simulation from 13 mins onward.


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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 06 Feb 2019 09:53

Plan it seems is flyback of the GSLV Mk2 furst and second stage with vertical landing and the top stage is a winged body descent.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jaysimha » 06 Feb 2019 11:27

Program of
International Conference on Small Satellites (ICSS-2019)
organized by Society for Small Satellite Systems
along with Sensors Research Society at Research Centre Imarat,
Hyderabad during 7th – 9th Feb 2019.
https://www.icss2019.in/pgschedule/ICSS ... 2.2019.pdf

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 06 Feb 2019 14:24

Wonder why they used Ariane instead of GSLV for GSAT 31

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Singha » 06 Feb 2019 14:32

its emergency launch due to fading satellite and lack of ready GSLV. sat is not big just 2.4t per a article.
there is one more emergency launch later.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 07 Feb 2019 15:16

First orbit raising maneuver succesful

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 07 Feb 2019 22:53

Prasanna ji, I found another paper on the metholox engine, same authors. It looks like that they are modifying the CUS engine. May be this is o shorten the time to get to a first prototype engine. But, I don't see why one would replace LH2+LOX with LCH4+LOX.

Also, in my heart of hearts, I hope for short life of SSLV. I would love to see a completely reusable light two stage launcher. A CUS stage over the L40 stage will do it. The lower stage can come from the ADMIRE project and the CUS stage can be packaged in RLV. Or both stages could be winged.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby PratikDas » 08 Feb 2019 03:42

Indranil wrote:Prasanna ji, I found another paper on the metholox engine, same authors. It looks like that they are modifying the CUS engine. May be this is o shorten the time to get to a first prototype engine. But, I don't see why one would replace LH2+LOX with LCH4+LOX.

Also, in my heart of hearts, I hope for short life of SSLV. I would love to see a completely reusable light two stage launcher. A CUS stage over the L40 stage will do it. The lower stage can come from the ADMIRE project and the CUS stage can be packaged in RLV. Or both stages could be winged.

This paper is very interesting: http://www.rocket-propulsion.info/resources/articles/LPRE.pdf
For today's launch vehicles the costs for the tanked propellants are of secondary importance compared to the costs of preparing the launch vehicle structure and systems for launch and launch operations. In case drastic reduction of the latter costs become available either for low-cost expendable vehicles or reusable vehicles, the influence of the propellant costs will increase. Some propellant costs are given in [4]. Hydrogen is approximately 15 times more expensive than 98% H2O2, while aviation kerosene costs only one quarter of H2O2. Liquid oxygen is even cheaper.

Kerosene will get expensive when the world-wide oil resources will cease, current estimations give a time period of approx. 30-40 years. However, methane as liquefied natural gas is said to be available for another 100-120 years. The costs for methane are said to be three times less than kerosene [10].

So, from the perspective of cost in the year 2002:

H2 = 15 x H2O2 (98%) = 60 x Kerosene = 180 x Methane

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 08 Feb 2019 04:05

ISP of metholox engine is about 380. ISP of CUS is around 450. And every ounce weight saved in the upper stage is worth its weight in gold.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby abhik » 08 Feb 2019 10:28

What about engine weight (and cost) - most LH2/LOX engines have significantly lower thrust to weigh ratio.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Singha » 08 Feb 2019 11:55

^^ then how come Ariane5 uses LH2/LOX mix for all its engines? someone was saying thats the exilir of life and the most tfta combo of fuel.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby PratikDas » 08 Feb 2019 12:04

Singha wrote:^^ then how come Ariane5 uses LH2/LOX mix for all its engines? someone was saying thats the exilir of life and the most tfta combo of fuel.

It's pretty good :)

Image

Source:http://www.rocket-propulsion.info/resources/articles/LPRE.pdf

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby abhik » 08 Feb 2019 18:25

Singha wrote:^^ then how come Ariane5 uses LH2/LOX mix for all its engines? someone was saying thats the exilir of life and the most tfta combo of fuel.

It is the most TFTF of the commonly used fuels in theory (refer the chart in above post) - but practical problems like ~1/10th the density of other fuels, very low temperatures etc means that most rockets don't actually use it.
Also Ariane 5 was TFTA in the only in the 2000's, by now it has been mostly been muscled out of the market by space x.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 09 Feb 2019 17:23

With lower stages thrust, energy density becomes a big issue and cost is also an issue. Its like going for a Ferrari for shopping at your Kirana store - very efficient engine but not cost effective for all uses.The Maruthi 800 could still do. Handling cryogens etc add significantly to the cost. So SRB's are not totally going away unless reuse with controlled descent and fly back is planned. Sea wet landing of shuttle SRB's introduced a host of new problems for refurbishment

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jaysimha » 11 Feb 2019 17:50

This may not be the first time being posted here ( MBD-if-RP)

NASA-ISRO SAR Mission (NISAR)
A dedicated U.S. and Indian InSAR mission, in partnership with ISRO, optimized for studying hazards and global environmental change.


https://nisar.jpl.nasa.gov/

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Ashokk » 11 Feb 2019 19:16

Isro gives IAF task to train 10 astronauts for Gaganyaan
On the number of crew, Sivan said, “We want IAF to train 10 candidates for the Gaganyaan mission. Out of them, we will pick final three for the maiden space journey.” On crew training abroad, the chairman said they have two-three countries like Russia and France in mind and but “no final call has been taken yet”.

To avoid the risk of endangering human lives, Isro will conduct two unmannned missions before the final mission and will carry humanoids (a robot resembling a human being). “The first unmanned test-flight will be in December 2020. The second unmanned test will be conducted in July 2021 and finally the human space flight will be launched in December 2021,” Sivan earlier told TOI.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Ashokk » 11 Feb 2019 19:32

India Turns to Russian Satellite Navigation Technology to Address Traffic Woes
As per the russian version of the article the On-Board Units (OBUs) will be a combined GLONASS/IRNSS unit which will be developed for this project.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 12 Feb 2019 02:59

^Welcome to the world of marketing.

No, India is not using Russian Sat Nav Tech.

Yes, NHAI seems to have contracted a Russian company which has a platform that integrates sat nav with vehicle toll booth collection and vehicle weight management and automation therein. That company has OBUs which use Glonass and will be using IRNSS.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 12 Feb 2019 03:21

Let me tell story of Pedro. It is very relevant here.

Pedro was a famed archer. Trees around all his villages were found with Pedro's arrows hitting the bull mark. Never a miss, always a perfect bull mark.

When asked how he achieved such a perfect hit, his answer was simple. He would shoot the arrow first and then paint the target around it.

---

The need for a Kerolox engine is like Pedro's archery. The reasons for its needs came after Kerolox was further developed and used in Apollo. Antecedents of all space launch systems (except ISRO's) lie in military applications (read missiles) and the entire infrastructure (nozzle, engines, ground operations, launch sequences, staging etc) created for missiles was reused for space applications (thanks to Sputnik). That is hardware. "software" include the trained mathematicians, physicists, chemists and operators who know and understand Kerolox were readily available and thus reduced "risk" in project schedules.

For example, figuring out cooling the nozzle and injecting the fuel itself took several years, various iterations on different missiles before coming together as F1 in Saturn. F1 is the most powerful single nozzle liquid engine ever flown. Why not reuse that knowhow (and knowwhy)?

It was the silverstein committee which brokered the need for newer kind of upper stages using then available boosters (kerolox based) that resulted in the LOX-LH2 rocket engines.

One of the famous notings by the committee ->
Developing entirely new hydrogen-burning stages for the entire "stack" would increase the risk that a failure of any one of the components could disrupt the entire program. But as the Committee members noted: "If these propellants are to be accepted for the difficult top-stage applications, there seems to be no valid engineering reasons for not accepting the use of high-energy propellants for the less difficult application to intermediate stages."
(Thus the J2)

Hence discussions around LOX/LH2 not suitable for lower stages is IMO polemical and in fact a lazy exercise. If it was so difficult or useless for lower stages, then it would not be used for Arianne.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 12 Feb 2019 04:04

Nice one, Disha.


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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby krishGo » 17 Feb 2019 17:48

prasannasimha wrote:Wonder why they used Ariane instead of GSLV for GSAT 31


Short answer, capacity limits. Currently ISRO can fly a maximum of 2 Mk3's every year. One of those flights this year will be of the Chandrayaan-2, a very important mission. Why limitations? Producing enough cryogenic engines & stages is what is constraining on the number of GSLVs and Mk3s that can be assembled and flown.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jaysimha » 18 Feb 2019 11:12

1ST NATIONAL CONFERENCE ON SPACE AND ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE (NCSAS-2019)
http://www.sanjayghodawatuniversity.ac. ... s2019.html
10 & 11 May, 2019 Sanjay Ghodawat University Kolhapur
in collaboration with
Indian Institute of Tropical Meteorology (IITM), Pune
Indian Institute of Geomagnetism (IIG), Mumbai

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Vips » 20 Feb 2019 18:30

On its maiden flight, India's SSLV will carry two defence satellites.

The Indian space agency will fly two small defence satellites in July/August on its new rocket --now known as Small Satellite Launch Vehicle (SSLV) - said a top official of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

"We are planning to fly two defence satellites, each weighing about 120 kg in our new rocket SSLV this July or August. The rocket design recently underwent a detailed integrated technical review," K. Sivan, ISRO Chairman, told IANS on Wednesday.

He said the total weight of the payload that will be carried by the SSLV on its maiden flight will be about 500 kg. While the two satellites would weight about 120 kg each, there will be adaptors and others that would weigh about 300 kg.

The total weight of the rocket will be 110 tonne, Sivan said.

Queried about the need for a second commercial arm - first one is Antrix Corporation - Sivan said: "We want to give a big push for production of SSLV. We expect the demand for SSLV to be about two/three rockets per month. We also want to increase the production of Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV)."

Sivan said the increase in production is sought to be achieved partnering with the private sector. He said Antrix Corporation is mainly into transponder leasing and other activities.

On Tuesday, the Union Cabinet chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave its approval for setting up of a new company under the Department of Space (DoS), to commercially exploit the research and development work carried out by ISRO and its constituent units. The following areas/avenues provide opportunities for commercial exploitation of ISRO programmes:

Small satellite technology transfer to industry, wherein the new company shall take licence from DoS/ISRO and sub-license to industries; manufacture of small satellite launch vehicle (SSLV) in collaboration with the private sector.

Besides, productionisation of PSLV through industry; productionisation and marketing of space-based products and services, including launch and applications; transfer of technology developed by ISRO Centres and constituent units of DoS. Also marketing of some spin-off technologies and products, both in India and abroad; and any other subject which Government of India deems fit.

When asked about the technologies that the ISRO can transfer, Sivan said: "We have developed technologies in materials, chemicals and others. These can be transferred so that people can benefit." Sivan said the capital for the proposed company will not be large and its name is yet to be finalised.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Kakarat » 22 Feb 2019 15:49

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 5864955904
Long Exposure streak shot of PSLV C-44 in flight taken from Pulicat bird sanctuary ~10km from the Launch Pad


Sorry for the long delay, I had submitted it for the photo contest by Aeroindia. Thanks to all the suggestions I could get this
Image


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