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Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

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anupmisra
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby anupmisra » 15 Feb 2017 21:39

Point well taken. No yag'ns for me though. My forefathers did enough of them to last me my next few generations to come.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Hemanth » 15 Feb 2017 22:35

Hiten wrote:footage from C37's onboard Camera
http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c37-cartosa ... mera-video

if you unable to access ISRO's website today


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACCsMTZ_qKo

site got hammered with traffic today. NIC should've anticipated it.


Thanks for the Youtube link. Just incredible to watch. :mrgreen:

Any idea why the nano-satellites are glowing brightly (presumably IR)?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby sohamn » 15 Feb 2017 23:26

nirav wrote:Awesome vid.
Congratulations to ISRO.

Rocket is roaring...
Raakit ki garajna ...

Same thing, in Hindi it sounds a little funny.but it's important to have hindi commentary. Has a wide audience pan India who actually understand what's going on cause it's being said in hindi ;)



I think they should have a separate Hindi feed. I do understand colloquial Hindi but I can't make out any of that Taan Sen Commentary. And I bet people from my state won't understand any bit of it either.

In fact I would like the sound feed to be of the actual rocket, MCF, LCF etc.

prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 15 Feb 2017 23:43

^ They are glowing due to the suns radiation. Look at the earth in the background glinting. Also any rocket exhaust would shine of these too.The P- separation shows all the satellites looking black in color.
Incidentally what does P+ and P- separation mean ?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Feb 2017 23:54

SSridhar wrote:
Gagan wrote:Atleast point the effing camera skywards from Marina beach onlee, its free you media idiots!!!

Had a good view of PSLV streaking across the sky and even the separation of the first stage from my house. Majestic. I have always had a good view of PSLVs. My regret is that I could not go to Namma Bengaluru today for AeroIndia due to factors beyond my control.


Arrey saar, kuch photu wotu toh lo...for less phortunate jingoes

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 16 Feb 2017 00:51

Neela wrote:Disha Sir,
Wondering what the business model is for Wipro/Reliance in small satellite launch? If it is not their core competency, and if there is no part of the business that cannot be commoditzed or that can be offered as a package, it will remain a niche custom area.


You know that the sats have a modular OS and also they have significant software requirements. With small satellites market opening up., one can have a integrated software for the satellite - including any space application servicing. Of course., the current core competency of likes of wipro and infosys is putting people on the bench and not developing a core competency in the first place. And hence they will never get the rewards of the space applications that is opening up.

Think about it., with small satellites opening up., one can build any application which can be used from space. The sky is unlimited - What applications you can think of? Right from crop management to fleet planning to fleet management to air/water/ground quality management. Heck with a fleet of nano-satellites, I can offer a "electrical transformer management" service to state electric DISCOMs - A transformer blows up - the nearest DISCOM employee gets a notification and type of blow up and he/she will show up to fix it - in minutes.

Point is., a significant opportunity has opened up - how you take advantage of that opportunity is up to you.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSSalvi » 16 Feb 2017 02:44

@Prasannasimha

P stands for Pitch axis .. Loosely speaking , + and - directions are UP and DOWN

Therefore P+ satellites are launched in dark ( away from Earth .. into cold sky ) while P- satellites are seen on Earth surface background.

Also notice that the satellites are being released from various directions in bunches. e.g. at 1:37 satellites are coming out from Left edge of video, at 2:05 from Top edge , At 2: 23 from Bottom etc. ( depending on which QuadPack they are placed on the RIM of satellite Launch Adapter ).

An interesting visualization of Roll, Pitch and Yaw for a human head is Image

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SwamyG » 16 Feb 2017 04:18

Hiten:
Thanks for the video. Goosebumps. I was trying to watch this video in the morning - heaving buffering on the ISRO website.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gagan » 16 Feb 2017 04:58

Wow! What a video!
I've seen it 10+ times already

Great going ISRO!
Hmm what a great marketing tool this video can be turned into!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gagan » 16 Feb 2017 05:04

Now if this video had been released very quickly, or live telecasted, the news organizations all over the world would be showing this, instead of raakit ki garjana.

The frame rate and resolution could be made better though, the data transmit rate will need improvement, maybe a separate channel for live video feed. Video could be used to monitor the launcher stages itself, the payloads etc etc. will give valuable info to the launch team. Some videos can remain classified of course.
The customer can get the satisfaction of seeing his payload being deployed in orbit in real time!

But I will say, integrate videos into launcher health monitoring as much as possible.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gagan » 16 Feb 2017 05:10

Also integrate some audio in the parts where rocket assembly is taking place. Nothing like a crane supervisor on a wireless radio saying "Left left wonlee", "Down wonlee", "Wokay, that looks good! Nice n easy" as the 3rd stage solid motor is lowered onto the 2nd stage. Smiling faces all around, faces concentrating on their job...

Bollywood istyle drama...

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby nirav » 16 Feb 2017 05:11

Think guys from the companies who's Sats ISRO launched would have been@ mission control viewing area.

I doubt if international media would have much interest in showing ISROs launch live.
Our media doesn't even show clips of foreign launches..

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby ranjan.rao » 16 Feb 2017 05:29

JTull wrote:Wonder how long before British press starts rona dhona about aid or precious Rupees wasted on space program rather than feed the poor.

well saw on fb
1. a pakistani saying their shaheen can launch 150 sattelites in one go any day they want
2. Comments of some brit turd saying this is on our money and we have no toilets or poor not fed kinda thing

BTW tim peake, the british astronaut dialed a wrong no. from space
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/25/europe/as ... ng-number/

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prasannasimha

Postby prasannasimha » 16 Feb 2017 09:30

Thanks SSSalvi

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Postby prasannasimha » 16 Feb 2017 09:35

There is a live video feed. It is just not released immediately (I could see GSLV stage separation transiently editing its launch with one person monitoring it on the screen) . The thing is that there was an expected data link loss between Mauritius and Troll Antarctic station so we just could not have a live feed even if we wanted to due tp radio silence. I think 2/3rds of the quadpacks were released during radio silence.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSSalvi » 16 Feb 2017 10:01

You are right.
Live camera feed has to be there.
But there also appears to be storage on-board because there appears to be no break in the stream of satellites being released.
If there was no storage then we could have seen no more than 40 sats due to link outage.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gagan » 16 Feb 2017 10:22

ISRO should have a station in South Africa.
Between Mauritius and Dakshin Gangotri, there is a huge uncovered territory

But this launch was unique because the PSLV spent a lot of time at the south pole releasing those nano sats, I think in different directions, so that they would cover the globe from different orbits. We are talking of a very precise release over the south pole, where the payload section may have had to be oriented in different directions for the nanosat flock ejection from the quadpacks

Usually, PSLV deploys its satellites over the tropic of capricon approximately, and the Mauritius station suffices, but this flight was well over to the south pole & so a radio silence area happened.
Or if HSL shipyard's special ship can step in to help ISRO out as needed at a future date, just like two ships helped with uplinking during the Mangalyaan Launch

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 16 Feb 2017 12:48

Image
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 16 Feb 2017 12:52

Image

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 16 Feb 2017 14:09

Gagan wrote:
But this launch was unique because the PSLV spent a lot of time at the south pole releasing those nano sats, I think in different directions, so that they would cover the globe from different orbits..

What exactly is meant by "spent a lot of time"?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rishi Verma » 16 Feb 2017 14:18

Is it even possible that isro and drdo never talk / share rocket technology to stay out of trouble with mtcr, npt etc etc. The video of 83 nanos getting released in orbit gave me a vision of 83 mini mrv nukes to do tandav dance on 83 Chinese cities. Better be 108 next time.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rishi Verma » 16 Feb 2017 14:27

So the space craft was moving in orbit in opposite direction (away from floating sats) that means a mechanism pushed the 88 nanos with decreasing force as all previous pushes must have given the mother ship additional velocity... and after releasing all payloads the mothership applied "brakes" to de-orbit and say allah-at-starbucks and burn up?

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Postby prasannasimha » 16 Feb 2017 14:32

^^ They mentioned during tge launch that the ejection recording was being done even as there was radio silence and the video and telemetry was beamed back after radio silence.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby svinayak » 16 Feb 2017 14:43

Chine rocket guidence and control system was weak resulting in crashes
US allowed export of tech to China for china to gain that tech

China may be still behind in these areas. hence the comments by China on Indian launch

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/timeless/h ... merica746/
February 15, 1996. A Chinese Long March 3B carrying a $200 million Loral satellite explodes 22 seconds after lilftoff.


March 14, 1996. President Clinton shifts control over regulating the export of communications satellites from the State Dept. which was primarily concerned with national security aspects of such exports, to the Commerce Dept., which is concerned with the economic benefits.

May 10, 1996. The Loral-led review commission investigating the February rocket explosion completes and passes on to Chinese officials its report, which according to the April 13, 1998 New York Times, discusses “sensitive aspects of the rocket’s guidance and control systems, which is an area of weakness in China’s missile programs.” The New York Times says that a Pentagon report concludes that, as a result of this technology transfer, “United States national security has been harmed”.

May 23, 1996. President Clinton calls for renewal of MFN for China, saying that renewal would not be “a referendum on all China’s policies,” but “a vote for America’s interests.”

October 1997. Chinese President Jiang Zemin makes a state visit to the United States. During the trip, he stops at a Hughes site to discuss satellites.

January 15, 1998. After China promises that it will no longer aid Iran’s nuclear program, President Clinton certifies that China is a reliable partner for nuclear technology exchange.

February 19, 1998. Despite opposition from the Justice Dept, President Clinton signs a waiver approving the launch of a Loral satellite from a Chinese rocket and reportedly authorizing the transfer of the same type of technology that the Pentagon said had “harmed” US security and that the Justice Dept. was investigation Loral and Hughes for their illegally transferring in 1996.



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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gagan » 16 Feb 2017 16:15

Amber G
Typing posts on a phone is not fun
It is actually ' spent a lot of time getting to the south pole'

Usually satellite ejection is just south of the equator or so, and the mission lasts 15 mins or so. But in this mission, PSLV deployed the nano sats in the region of the south pole. This mission was nearly 30 mins long

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jayasimha » 16 Feb 2017 17:12

Print ReleasePrint
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Special Service and Features
16-February-2017 16:22 IST
ISRO Makes History

Image

*Dilip Ghosh

Indian Space Research Organisation, ISRO made history yesterday when its PSLV rocket placed 104 satellites into the space in a single mission. The record for highest number of satellites launched in one go was till then held by Russia. The country’s rocket Dnepr which was a converted ICBM, launched 37 satellites in June 2014. Earlier, the US space agency NASA had launched 29 satellites in a single mission in 2013.

The ISRO used its mightiest rocket this time, the one used in Chandrayaan and Mars Orbiter Missions. The 320 ton rocket, PSLV –C 37 carried a 714 kg CARTOSAT -2, two ISRO Nano Satellites INS A and INS B and 101 foreign satellites of different countries including the US, Israel and UAE together weighing about 700 kg and placed them into polar Sun synchronous orbit about 520 km away from the earth. While the high resolution CARTOSAT-2 will monitor the movements of even one metre long vehicle and goods in our neighborhood, the two nano satellites are for technology demonstration. The images sent by CARTOSAT-2 will also be useful for the country in coastal land use, road network monitoring, distribution of water and creation of land use maps.

The successful launch of 104 satellites in one go by an ISRO rocket has been hailed not only by President Pranab Mukherjee and Prime Minister Narendra Modi but also by internationally known space experts. Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan, head of the Nuclear and Space Policy Initiative at the Observer Research Foundation commented a day before the launch of the satellites that it is going to be a big deal. She said, it shows the sophistication of India's space program. Joan Johnson-Freese, a professor and space specialist at the US Naval War College thought that it was a mission aimed at what he called “anything that gets you into the records book, like breaking the Russian satellite launch record.

Ever since ISRO sent 23 satellites into the space in a single mission in June 2015, the scientists of the space agency were almost confident that they would achieve this majestic feat also. Dr. K. Sivan, Director of the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, Thiruvananthapuram explained in response to a query from a newsman a few days back how the satellites were going to be placed into orbit. He said, the every satellite would be separated in a different angle and at a different time from the launch vehicle in order to prevent collision between satellites. Sivan clarified, the satellite that got launched first would move at a relatively faster velocity than the next satellite that was to be launched. Due to different relative velocities, the distance between the satellites would increase continuously but the orbit would be the same, he said.

But, when did the ISRO’s glorious journey begin? India's Mangalyaan probe which started in November 2013, Asia's first successful Mars orbiter, in fact, forced the world to take note of this space program. The probe was sent to the Red Planet for only 74 million dollars, less than the 100 million dollars the Hollywood spent making the space thriller "Gravity." The success gave Mangalyaan its pride of place on India's new 2,000 rupee note. Ms Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan said, the Mars mission was not just a "sound and light show". It established India's credibility as a space power and translated into tangible economic benefits when it came to the big business of satellite launches.

Professor Johnson-Freese says, recognition of the multifaceted benefits from space exploration and space technology dates back to the Apollo program. He said, Asian countries have been following that model and seeking those benefits ever since. To date India has launched 79 satellites from 21 countries, including satellites from big companies like Google and Airbus. According to Government figures, India earned at least 157 million dollars from these launches, he said.

All the three Asian giants, India, China and Japan have now made bold space exploration plans for 2017 and beyond. In the first half of 2018, India plans to launch its second lunar mission -- in 2008, it became the fourth country to plant its flag on the moon after the US, Russia and China. The Chandrayaan-2 will orbit, land and send a wheeled rover on the moon to collect lunar rock and soil. India also plans a mission to study the sun. Besides, it proposes mission to Venus and a follow up to its first Mars mission. Last year, India tested a reusable launch vehicle which resembles the US space shuttle.

China, perhaps the most rapidly accelerating space power is planning to test its Tianzhou-1 cargo and resupply spacecraft in April this year. The plan is aimed at maintaining the supply line for the country's space station that's expected to be up and running by 2022. Later this year, China will send a probe to the moon that will collect and return with soil sample. By the end of the decade, China says, it will have also become the first country to land on the far side of the moon and also land a rover on Mars. Japan is also not to be lagging behind. It wants to send an unmanned rover on the moon’s surface in the next year itself.

*****
*The Author regularly writes on Science and Technology. The views expressed in the article are author’s own.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby chetak » 16 Feb 2017 21:36

‘They were small satellites’ – how prejudiced foreign media tried to deny India her success :mrgreen:

‘They were small satellites’ – how prejudiced foreign media tried to deny India her success

By bwoyblunder

Posted on February 16, 2017

Sometimes all it takes is one cartoon. In September of 2014, the New York Times, which is often pummelled by the President of USA Donald Trump, and is known for its anti-India bent, had published the following cartoon:

Image

The racist cartoon showing India in poor light had been published just after India successfully put the Mangalyaan robotic probe into the orbit around Mars. The total cost of the mission was put at 4.5 bn rupees, making it one of the cheapest interplanetary space missions ever. Only the US, Russia and Europe (European Space Agency) had previously sent missions to Mars, and India succeeded in its first attempt – an achievement that eluded even the Americans and the Soviets.

Eventually New York Times had to apologise for their cartoon after public outrage.

Cut to 2017 and this time the New York Times (NYT) was joined by Financial Times (FT) in subtly underplaying yet another astounding feat by India:

Follow
Financial Times ✔ @FT
Some of the satellites, owned by the US company Planet, were just 30cm in length and weighed under 5kg http://on.ft.com/2kwV2ZM
6:22 PM - 15 Feb 2017

Image
Feat garners both praise and criticism for country’s ambitious space programme
ft.com
36 36 Retweets 30 30 likes


Follow
New York Times World ✔ @nytimesworld
Many of the 104 satellites launched by India today are 'Doves' weighing about 10 pounds. http://nyti.ms/2kpsJBw
7:56 PM - 15 Feb 2017
Image
118 118 Retweets 118 118 likes



These news reports were of course covering Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) launching 104 satellites into orbit in a single mission. With this successful launch, India had smashed the previous record by the Russian Space Agency which had launched 37 satellites in one go.

Of the 104 satellites, 101 satellites were from international clients. Of the 101 international co-passenger nano-satellites, 96 are from the US, and one each from Israel, Kazakhstan, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the United Arab Emirates. Two Indian nano satellites also rode piggyback on the PSLV rocket along with the 714 kg CARTOSAT-2 Series satellite for earth observation

Cartosat-2 Series, which is the primary satellite, will provide remote sensing services after coming into operation. Images sent by it will be useful for coastal land use and regulation, road network monitoring, distribution of water and creation of land use maps, among others. The two Indian Nano-satellites INS-1A and INS-1B were developed as co-passenger satellites to accompany bigger satellites on PSLV. The primary objective of INS (ISRO Nano Satellite) is to provide an opportunity for ISRO technology demonstration payloads, provide a standard bus for launch on demand services.

Instead of lauding India’s achievements, NYT and FT chose to snidely point out that many of the satellites were in fact of smaller size. If indeed it was so easy to launch such smaller satellites, we wonder why an overwhelming majority of such satellites belonged to advanced nations such as USA which can easily send them in to orbit. The fact that international companies chose ISRO, shows that ISRO had what the market needed: reliability, technical expertise, at a fraction of the cost.

In fact, the real challenge in carrying so many satellites is not their weight, but the difficulty in launching so many of them in different orbits, without any of them crashing into each other.


Dr. K. Sivan, Director of the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), Thiruvananthapuram, had explained the process and the challenges involved earlier this year:

“The satellites will be separated from the launch vehicle in different directions. The separation angle and time of separation will be such that one satellite will not collide with another. The satellite that gets launched first will move at a relatively faster velocity than the next satellite that is launched. Due to different relative velocities, the distance between the satellites will increase continuously but the orbit will be the same. When the vehicle reaches the orbital condition, we will wait for the disturbances to die down before the preparation for separation begins.”

An error of even one degree difference in separation angle combined with relative velocity can cause a collision and hence such a task of simultaneously launching over a 100 satellites requires a high degree of skill. NYT and FT could have learned this if they had talked to an actual scientist, but instead FT chose to quote Sonia Gandhi’s pet economist Jean Dreze, from the time he criticised India’s Mangalyaan mission, as “part of Indian elite’s delusional quest for superpower status”. FT also chose to juxtapose the spending on our space program against poverty alleviation measures.

The attitudes of NYT and FT’s reporting showed that they still couldn’t come to terms with the fact that a seemingly third world nation had galloped ahead in the space race, or at least one leg of the race. Has NYT or FT ever questioned USA’s exorbitant expenditures of various sectors even when an estimated 43.1 million US citizens (13.5% of the total population) live in poverty?

Or perhaps is it a growing worry that India is on the cusp of developing a name for itself in the International market for having a robust, technologically advanced satellite launching system, which also enjoys a huge cost advantage. The global market for nano and micro-satellites, is set to grow close to $3 billion in the next three years. ISRO sources point out that some 3,000 satellites will be ready for launch in the next 10 years for navigation, maritime, surveillance and other space-based applications.

ISRO has fast made a name for itself for its low cost services, which are attracting a lot of foreign customers as new private players like SpaceX are yet to improve their cost effectiveness. For a satellite launch, SpaceX can charge around USD 60 million, while ISRO charged an average of USD 3 million per satellite between 2013 and 2015. The forex revenue for ISRO’s commercial arm, Antrix Corporation, went up 204.9 percent in 2015.

While NYT and FT may mock nano-satellites, Prakash Chandra, a science writer, rightly mentions here that smaller sized satellites are the future:

Having a large number of small satellites instead of a few heavy ones makes sense as they could cover the same piece of ground more frequently — say, every 15 minutes — for collecting imagery. This could spell a revolution in the way satellites are used — whether it is helping fishermen identify catches, keeping track of crops, or detecting natural disasters like floods and earthquakes. Similarly, increasing miniaturisation in electronics makes redundant the use of heavy satellites for telecommunications and remote sensing. Smaller satellites deliver better coverage at a fraction of the cost.

He argues that this is exactly where India could make a killing since as satellites become smaller and less expensive to build, launch vehicles need to be correspondingly cheaper so that the number and rate of launches could be higher to keep launch costs down.

A more mature international media would have realised the significance of this launch and allowed India to bask in the glory of the PSLV, but petty minded publications like NYT and FT have exposed themselves, while trying to show India down. It started with a Cartoon, India has replied with a Cartosat, and the game is still on!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby chetak » 16 Feb 2017 21:44

and of course, not to mention, our dear neighbors.............

twitter

This brings the question to my mind: is Englishing necessary for Sciencing?

Image

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby ricky_v » 16 Feb 2017 22:37

chetak wrote:and of course, not to mention, our dear neighbors.............

twitter

This brings the question to my mind: is Englishing necessary for Sciencing?

Image


saar pliss to post in benis onlee, moon splitting by abduls and launching of saletailes do not belong in the non-fictional world :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby nam » 16 Feb 2017 22:47

By launching 104, ISRO actually created a market on the fly !. Now there will countries/ organistation/ uuniv who would think about launching a 50k worth program instead of millions.

Gentlemen, ISRO has create a desi AWS(Amazon Webservice). The "cloudification" of satellite launch.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby sooraj » 16 Feb 2017 23:41

Hitler reacts to India's 104 satellite launch world record (ISRO) :lol:


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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 17 Feb 2017 00:15

Duplicate message removed.
Last edited by Amber G. on 17 Feb 2017 01:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 17 Feb 2017 01:26

Gagan wrote:Amber G
Typing posts on a phone is not fun
It is actually ' spent a lot of time getting to the south pole'

Usually satellite ejection is just south of the equator or so, and the mission lasts 15 mins or so. But in this mission, PSLV deployed the nano sats in the region of the south pole. This mission was nearly 30 mins long

Gagan, Thanks. (I knew there was some typo somewhere but still can not figure out what you meant. Thanks for making it clear).

The choice of lattituede where (and what orbit) to launch satellites requires some thought and calculations..one has to select these in such a way that the precession - changing of orbital plane - (due to oblateness of earth - earth is not a perfect sphere but is squashed in north-south pole) time period is close to a year..so the satellites remains in sun synchronous orbit.

Thus when the drone satellites takes photographs it is always "day time" below...
(Rough calculations shows that, if one assumes 500 Km above where satellites are launched, to achieve required precession - good latitudes to consider is around 80-82 degrees - quite close to poles) ..

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby morem » 17 Feb 2017 01:40

Rishi Verma wrote:Is it even possible that isro and drdo never talk / share rocket technology to stay out of trouble with mtcr, npt etc etc. The video of 83 nanos getting released in orbit gave me a vision of 83 mini mrv nukes to do tandav dance on 83 Chinese cities. Better be 108 next time.


i was about to ask , what does this imply for our MIRV capabilities ? considering the warheads have to come back thru the atmosphere as well ?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 17 Feb 2017 02:14

^It is Multiple Independently Release Sats (MIRS) except the sats did not come back immediately and were no vehicles. And there in ends the conversation.

ISRO is a civilian space agency dedicated for peaceful exploration of space for the benefit of the humankind. Rest are transferred out. Like APJ Kalam.

PS: Launching a sat at a precise orbit, inclination and into a precise point is difficult than a ballistic shell, where the shells are injected at a precise trajectory, inclination into a precise box.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SriKumar » 17 Feb 2017 08:22

Hiten wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACCsMTZ_qKo

site got hammered with traffic today. NIC should've anticipated it.
After the Cartosat was launched, the upper stage re-oriented itself (about 1:27 in the video). One can see the camera rotate and point in a different direction. The multitude of little boxes that were sent tumbling out after the cartosat are presumably the quad-packs (25 of them?) in which the nanosats were housed? If so, were the 'doves' released from these quad-pack boxes? Looking at the way the boxes were rotating, pitching upon release from the upper stage, they probably needed some serious effort at stabilization upon attainment of orbit.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 17 Feb 2017 08:36

I don't understand the point of some messages.. I think they are scientifically inaccurate if not somewhat absurd/meaningless -- for example:

*** This is for serious people hoping that some interesting gyan will come out of this.. by NO means it is discussion for discussion sake ***

So the space craft was moving in orbit in opposite direction (away from floating sats) that means a mechanism pushed the 88 nanos with decreasing force as all previous pushes must have given the mother ship additional velocity... and after releasing all payloads the mothership applied "brakes" to de-orbit and say allah-at-starbucks and burn up?


For example, there is no "opposite direction".. both (all) are moving in about the same direction with speeds differing less than 0.1% .. a few meters/second difference out of 8000 m/s...virtually all the velocity (or change in velocity) comes from thrust ..the "recoil" from these nanos - to put it mildly - is negligible...It is akin of throwing stones out of a window in a moving train and thinking the recoil is going to apply "brake" on the train..

Is it even possible that isro and drdo never talk / share rocket technology to stay out of trouble with mtcr, npt etc etc. The video of 83 nanos getting released in orbit gave me a vision of 83 mini mrv nukes to do tandav dance on 83 Chinese cities. Better be 108 next time.


Apart from physics and structure of a nuke (mini or otherwise) is quite different than a drone type camera (or other equipments) it is almost silly to compare the math/technology needed for "mrv" or sending satellites in sun synchronous orbit. To put the object in the orbit, you literally need a very small push at the right time -- to generate delta-V of a few meters/second (My legs can do that push on a 5Kg probe very easily).. the tricky part is to make sure that all the orbits precesses with required accuracy and satellites stay apart) ityadi..

The satellites are I presume, are in sun synchronous - this means they visit a particular latitude around the same local time.. it does NOT mean it is visiting the same position on earth in every orbit - IOW there is little accuracy wrt to position on earth's surface (the calculations are NOT done wrt to what cities it will go over)..

For a missile, you need accuracy (wrt to it's position on earth), speed etc.. fuel/energy consumption is not a high priority -- You don't care how much fuel you use, you want to reach the target reliably...

The part which gives me confidence (and other countries takes seriously) the navigational, inertial guidance and rocket motors etc..(If we can place Mangalyaan in Mar's orbit -- any part of the earth can be hit with pin-point accuracy).. The putting of 100 satellites in one go is a great achievement but seeing similarities between this and MIRV is sort of pointless.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 17 Feb 2017 10:05

Amber G. wrote:I don't understand the point of some messages.. I think they are scientifically inaccurate if not somewhat absurd/meaningless -- for example:
So the space craft was moving in orbit in opposite direction (away from floating sats) that means a mechanism pushed the 88 nanos with decreasing force as all previous pushes must have given the mother ship additional velocity... and after releasing all payloads the mothership applied "brakes" to de-orbit and say allah-at-starbucks and burn up?


AmberG., it is up to us to NOT become Boston Brahmins and we must NOT look down upon hoi-polloi just because somebody has a Masters in BioSciences but not a PhD in space sciences or physics or even have a background in physics.

Having said that., part of this thread exists to draw in people and have their questions/queries answered in simpler terms. No question should be treated absurd., particularly if the poster has a genuine curiosity. The poster may even draw out wrong conclusions and at best we can strive to present what we consider "corrections" in simple and plain english. Reprimanding somebody for their genuine query does not behoove anybody.

At the same time., your explanations do help.

---

On a different note., I do want to point out that MIRV and launching multi-sats are not too dissimilar. Yes., different calculations go in each - but if you can inject a projectile into a precise orbit., you as well have the capability to inject projectile into a specific earth bound trajectory. And to that, you do point out the mastery in navigational, inertial guidance and rocket propulsions (and the algorithms to manage that) is what is rightly seen as capability. And the comparison ends there.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gyan » 17 Feb 2017 10:17

ricky_v wrote:
chetak wrote:and of course, not to mention, our dear neighbors.............



saar pliss to post in benis onlee, moon splitting by abduls and launching of saletailes do not belong in the non-fictional world :rotfl:


You Cafeer, Pox on thee

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 17 Feb 2017 10:24

Disha - point taken but OTOH please note:
I don't understand the point of some messages.. I think they are scientifically inaccurate if not somewhat absurd/meaningless -- for example:
...
In other words, just ignore if you don't agree.. IOW ..there are my view points so no need to unnecessary take them seriously..
(again there is difference is calling some points absurd and calling some one absurd.

BTW I am used (as many physicist do ) to use this vocabulary even to big shots (world renown professors).. if I think there is some points are wrong.. no offense is taken...

So if you agree, okay, if you disagree, say so ..just ignore if something is harsh..(I am not admin/authority/someone_to_take_serious_enough_if_you_disagree_with_my_critisism)


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