Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

disha · Post by **disha** » 08 Sep 2016 00:50

It is interesting that a particular number (ISP) is seized on to necessitate requirements for an imaginary rocket!

This leads to out of the world statements like "Solid bad - semi cryo good - cryo best"! It is like questioning the need for Trucks when one has highly efficient EVs since the MPG on an EV is some 8 to 10x better than the trucks!!

NASA for its space launch system which will be used till 2050 is relying on solid boosters. Chinese have started a program on it! Solid boosters are reliable and provide massive thrust in a short space of time - and are equivalent to space trucks. And in the talk itself (linked in previous pages)., it was mentioned:

That ISRO with mastering solid, liquid (UDMH/HNO4, semi-cryo LOX/KER & cryo LOX/CH4, LOX/LOH) will have a host of options to tailor the rocket for a mission appropriately.

That Solids are not restartable., or cannot be shutdown - so for human flights - liquids are preferred and semi-cryo will provide the required ISP. But for cargo to say space station or to launch a probe to Jupiter., one needs a heavy lift of very heavy lift capability and can be provided by the solid boosters on the cheap.

That LOX/CH4 are for missions to other planetary bodies and can potentially use the methane found on those bodies to return back, thus saving on fuel from earth. In fact, methyl isocyanate is already confirmed to exist on comets.

RLVs are to bring the total cost down (and this where if you notice the speaker was surprised that NASA is not taking a lead on RLV and instead going back to earlier but scaled up designs for its SLS)

That UDMH/HNO4 provide restartable engines (demonstrated on MOM).

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And when was the thought process of ISRO's commercialization of its launch services started? Antrix was incorporated in 1992 (25 years ago) and its thought process started in late 80s itself. So to say that ISRO's thought about commercialization of its launchers only recently is plain wrong.

Hence can somebody answer the question -

What is the commercial utility of a launcher with 10 Ton pay load to GTO?

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Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 08 Sep 2016 01:29

UH25 filling into four L40 Strap-On Stages completed by 21:00hr IST
Date: Sep, 07, 2016

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 08 Sep 2016 04:40

I have a question about the Antrix - Devdas flap? How did this thing end up in the international court? Why wasn't this matter litigate in Indian courts where the indian courts could say that this deal was called off because of fraud & corruption involved and therefore not enforceable. How did this end up where the GOI has to pay out billions of dollars for "lost profit" even though the benefactors were guilty of fraud or bribery?

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 08:12

Commercial utility was there when they were increasing weights of commercial satellites.With beter propulsion systems for station management it is expected that the weight of satellites will come down so it is not so pressing. What we will need the 10 ton Launcher are for things like space stations manned missions etc. Also we may need large unfurlable antennae and things like that for military purposes where the space requirements for the antenna etc will be large which automatically needs larger launch systems

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 08:12

GSLVF05/INSAT3DR
Second Stage(GS2) N2O4 filling completed by 13:30hr IST. Preparations for Second Stage(GS2) UH25 filling are under progress

vina · Post by **vina** » 08 Sep 2016 10:19

indranilroy wrote: To a layman, I can think of three main changes between the SCE200 cluster and the Vikas cluster on the L110.
1. Rate of consumption of propellant/oxidizer by the SCE200 will be significantly higher than that of the Vikas engine.
2. The tanks themselves will have different dimensions. One of them will be further.
3. The fuel/oxidizer themselves are different.

In lieu of the above, and others that I don't know of, can the L110 clustering system be adopted as is or with minor changes to cluster two SCE2000s?

We are talking architecture here. Of course, the turbo machinery and tank and the size of the tank and hence stage will be different. But then cluster is not just attaching two engines together. The control system for the engine has to cater to that and be able to control the individual engines for differential thrust and be able to cater to contingencies like need to power one engine at higher than rated thrust is one engine underperforms and the related asymmetry etc.

That said,there have been instances where an existing engine with hypergolic earth storable propellants have been converted to kerosene/LOX , I think in the Titan program . It has been done before and can be done.

vina · Post by **vina** » 08 Sep 2016 10:24

prasannasimha wrote:Commercial utility was there when they were increasing weights of commercial satellites.With beter propulsion systems for station management it is expected that the weight of satellites will come down so it is not so pressing. What we will need the 10 ton Launcher are for things like space stations manned missions etc. Also we may need large unfurlable antennae and things like that for military purposes where the space requirements for the antenna etc will be large which automatically needs larger launch systems

A large 8 to 10 ton launcher IS needed . Even if the average size is 5 tons, launching two satellites with one launcher is far more efficient than launching each 5 ton satellite with a single launcher. After all, the difference between a base Atlas V (5 ton GTO ) and a Atlas V with max load is couple of solid boosters (10 ton GTO). The marginal cost between the two configs is minimal.

Economies of scale works, just like it does in airplanes and ships and trucks. The larger the vessel gets, the less the cost per unit weight of payload. This will apply even if the satellite weight crashes from 5 tons to say 2 tons. In that case, launch 5 of those at one go in a 10 ton launcher in best case.

Trouble is to find the extra satellite to fill in the empty spot. But ISRO has an advantage here. They have their own satellites to launch so half the problem is done, if ISRO uses its own launchers for it's satellites. The other slot can be filled commercially and is a far lesser problem than finding 2 satellites to fill a launch slot.

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 08 Sep 2016 15:17

Youtube launch streaming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSuEANsSSbI

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 15:20

Webcast Link

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 15:22

8 mins to live webcast

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 15:32

New webcast link 28 min delay

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 15:46

live streaming in 14 mins

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Sep 2016 15:53

Launch of GSLV-F05 carrying INSAT-3DR, an advanced weather satellite, powered by indigenous delayed roughly 40 minutes as scientists are rechecking observations made during propellant filling

ToI

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 15:58

Delays during fueling of cryogenic upper stage, launch at 4.50 pm, live streaming in 30 mins

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 16:13

sooraj wrote:New webcast link 28 min delay

now live

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 16:51

Ist stage performance normal

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 16:53

Ist stage separated

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 08 Sep 2016 17:01

Any news beyond the first stage??

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 08 Sep 2016 17:02

NAAARMAL so far.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 17:08

Satellite Injected

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 08 Sep 2016 17:11

Launch successful

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 08 Sep 2016 17:11

Accurate deployment of satellite.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 17:12

precision launch from GSLV

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Sep 2016 17:12

Congrats ISRO..mastering GSLV with 3rd successful launch in a row..!

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 08 Sep 2016 17:13

Satellite performance will be checked subsequently. But launcher has done its job fully and successfully. ISRO So boring. Hope this series of boring success continues.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 08 Sep 2016 17:13

Yawn..call me when GSLV-III is being launched. The indigenous cryo has 100% success rate.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 17:14

GSLV Mk3 in 3 months

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 08 Sep 2016 17:15

Another text book flung into orbit.. All Naarmal..

GSLV is the new PSLV..

)

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 08 Sep 2016 17:16

Awesome! Congratulations to ISRO team!

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 17:16

Gyan wrote:Satellite performance will be checked subsequently. But launcher has done its job fully and successfully. ISRO So boring. Hope this series of boring success continues.

The targeted parameters are all within normal . MCF Hasan has taken over the satellite

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 17:18

perigee in 300m accuracy, inclination difference is zero and augmented perigee in 0.01deg

vina · Post by **vina** » 08 Sep 2016 17:18

If only they would should down the Hindi Commentary with the abstruse and frankly incomprehensible terms for "Closed loop Guidance" and "Geo Stationary Orbit" and stuff like that, which is just pedantic,stultified and plain weird.

Frankly, I don't expect some "shuddh Hindi" types to be watching this, and the normal Hindi speaking audience would probably have got more out the expert English commentary, rather than the tag along Hindi, which they would have found as incomprehensible as a non Hindi speaker.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 17:23

Very slight overperformance of the Cryogenic Upper Stage, reducing its burn duration to make an on-target injection.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 17:24

sooraj wrote:perigee in 300m accuracy, inclination difference is zero and augmented perigee in 0.01deg

Apogee difference 80 meters

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 Sep 2016 17:25

11 % upstaging done both for testing and meeting requirements of injection parameters

MohdKav · Post by **MohdKav** » 08 Sep 2016 17:26

Swiss Chocolates time.......................

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Sep 2016 17:26

Gslv is a hit. Yàaaaahooooo.

vnms · Post by **vnms** » 08 Sep 2016 17:27

sooraj wrote:Very slight overperformance of the Cryogenic Upper Stage, reducing its burn duration to make an on-target injection.

I'm so used to hearing reports of under performance that I had to re-read this. I'm assuming that this a good thing.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 08 Sep 2016 17:29

Insat 3DR has solar arrays deployed and 3 axis stablised

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Sep 2016 17:42

I love naarmal days..