Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

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SSridhar
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by SSridhar »

rsingh, you are conflating disparate issues. Don't continue with that line. Take this as a warning.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by abhijitm »

rsingh wrote:
arshyam wrote: Then why even do this? After all, there is nothing new in this stuff as NASA and the Russians have done everything that needs to be done in this sphere.
Don't do this.Read again. US,Russia did this for themselves. we have to do this for ourselves. But that is not the point. Point is ; make it, test it and use it and then display it. That is an achievement. Yes kids get inspired . I still have somewhere cuttings of Rohini etc. I am (and many others are) sick and tired of perpetual postponement of big projects. Get on the work and deliver within time frame instead of wasting time in discussing every nut and bolt with public before the big show.
Do we want ISRO to work secretive, behind closed door?

Displaying vision, conceptual design, tested components, major milestones to public before achieving final goal is normal. It builds up great public interest, inspire generation and takes everyone along in that nail biting finish. Also it is a demonstration of country's progressive technology prowess.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Neshant »

We urgently need to start planning a space telescope of Hubble proportions.
Every other major power has one in the works.
Skip expensive missions like putting a man on the moon and building a space station (who's upkeep will be enormous but science value very limited) and put those funds into the telescope and other smaller scale projects.
As always, India is way behind.

------

Billion-dollar telescopes could end up beyond the reach of US astronomers

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05985-2
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by rsingh »

SSridhar wrote:rsingh, you are conflating disparate issues. Don't continue with that line. Take this as a warning.
* Deleted *

Edited:When a Mod gives a warning, the matter ends there. No more arguments on that or trying to be half-smart with words. No further post on this issue.
Last edited by SSridhar on 14 Sep 2018 06:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Rahul M »

sudhan wrote:
kurup wrote:IIRC I have read somewhere that Indian Satellites also have Video tracking capability , just like Russians and Chinese demonstarted .

Does anybody have any source to prove it ??
You mean video recording?

AFAIK, Cartosat-2C and above have video recording feature.

I dont think there are any official sources claiming so.

Of course, tons of reports claiming info from ISRO sources:

https://indianexpress.com/article/citie ... abilities/
an ISRO gent displayed a few second clip of video tracking at a conference recently. so consider it official.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by disha »

Neshant wrote:We urgently need to start planning a space telescope of Hubble proportions.
It is cheaper to setup and operate large telescopes on moon or in ladakh and not in space. India is better off setting up telescopes in Ladakh.
Neshant wrote:As always, India is way behind.
^Unnecessary rona-dhona. India is a space power, please accept it. It does not have to do all the missions all the time. It can be selective of its goals and set its mission priorities accordingly.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Neshant »

disha wrote: It is cheaper to setup and operate large telescopes on moon or in ladakh and not in space. India is better off setting up telescopes in Ladakh.
There already are a few telescopes operating in Ladakh.

A new robotic (remotely operated) telescope in Hanle, Ladakh has recently gone operational.

However there must be great benefits to a space telescope like avoiding atmospheric distortions which is why all major space powers are pursuing such projects. Getting time on the Hubble for any researcher is pretty hard. I'm wondering if this could be turned into a business opportunity for India where time on the scope is rented out to global astrophysics labs for profit.

------

India’s First Robotic Telescope at Ladakh Opens Its Eyes To the Universe!

Image

Image


https://www.thebetterindia.com/146709/i ... -universe/
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by disha »

Neshant wrote: However there must be great benefits to a space telescope like avoiding atmospheric distortions which is why all major space powers are pursuing such projects. Getting time on the Hubble for any researcher is pretty hard. I'm wondering if this could be turned into a business opportunity for India where time on the scope is rented out to global astrophysics labs for profit.
Neshant'ji., there are new ways that atmospheric distortions have been overcome from ground based telescopes in visible spectrum. In fact, with astrosat, ISRO does have a leg in space telescope.

Do we want to create a $10B boondoggle like the James Webb Telescope? The telescope that ate astronomy? $10B could have been spread elsewhere. Or do we continue with the Astrosat line (Astrosat 2). In fact Astrosat with its shoe-string budget has already given great results.

India can start building more big and bigger telescopes in Ladakh (and entire NE). We do not have to do anything for profit, we license the best technologies from NASA (gold coated beryllium for mirrors for example) and go for 20-30mtrs ground based telescopes. The technology that comes by itself will be worth its value like in tonnes of platinum.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by kurup »

Rahul M wrote:an ISRO gent displayed a few second clip of video tracking at a conference recently. so consider it official.
Any link for that clip ?
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by juvva »

mission details @ :
https://www.isro.gov.in/launcher/pslv-c42-mission

PSLV-C42 Mission
PSLV-C42 Mission Gallery
PSLV-C42 Brochure
PSLV-C42 Mission Curtain raiser video (English)
PSLV-C42 Mission Curtain raiser video (Hindi)
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Neela »

ISRO Spy Verdict Out: SC says Former ISRO Scientist Nambi Narayanan "unfairly Arrested & Harassed", Orders Rs 50 Lakh Compensation


100% literate state's police personnel who tortured him were:

DGP Siby Mathews
SP K K Joshua
SP S Vijayan

I understand that above folk could be the last-mile henchmen and the brains could be at IB. But the fact the Siby writes an autobiography just made my blood boil.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Kakarat »

The Second Vehicle Assembly Building is painted and seems it would be ready soon

Image
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Rahul M »

kurup wrote:
Rahul M wrote:an ISRO gent displayed a few second clip of video tracking at a conference recently. so consider it official.
Any link for that clip ?
sorry, I wasn't recording. it was of a city in US.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Vips »

Neela wrote:ISRO Spy Verdict Out: SC says Former ISRO Scientist Nambi Narayanan "unfairly Arrested & Harassed", Orders Rs 50 Lakh Compensation


100% literate state's police personnel who tortured him were:

DGP Siby Mathews
SP K K Joshua
SP S Vijayan

I understand that above folk could be the last-mile henchmen and the brains could be at IB. But the fact the Siby writes an autobiography just made my blood boil.
Congress faction fighting did not care for the Country, its Scientists and its Space program.
According to a report in The Pioneer, the real motives behind the case spawned back to the tussles in the power corridors of Kerala. The newspaper alleged that the Kerala Police was on the lookout for foreign nationals overstaying in Kerala on home ministry's orders, when they came across Rasheeda. Rasheeda had contacted the city police commissioners office and came in contact with another senior police official, Raman Shrivastava, at the time to get her visa extended. It was at a follow-up meeting on the issue when Vijayan came in contact with Rasheeda and promised to help her. Vijayan, reportedly, made overtures to the Maldivian woman, who in turn insulted him and threatened to report him to Shrivastava.

Siby Mathews who was a DIG at the time wanted Shrivastava out of his way, reportedly, to gain an out-of-turn promotion. The newspaper alleges that the duo conspired to take revenge and frame Rashida and Shrivastava. The case, however, eventually became a tool for multiple agencies and players to extract different gains.

Shrivastava's name cropping up in the concocted conspiracy had another political effect. He was known to be close to the then chief minister K Karunakaran, who shared a bitter relationship with AK Antony (also of the Congress) as the latter lost the chief minister's berth to the former. One of the reasons perhaps that nobody encouraged the police to drop a concocted case was that Shrivastava's conviction cast aspersions on Karunakaran, who was eventually forced to quit in March 1995, under pressure from Antony, and Congress coalition partners Muslim League and Kerala Congress (M).
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Indranil »

More details of SSLV. Credit to pgoi (on redditt).

Image

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Interesting that the fins control roll. So, are they active?

Image

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SSLV has strategic importance in wartime.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Neshant »

disha wrote: Do we want to create a $10B boondoggle like the James Webb Telescope?
James Webb is the benchmark against which all other telescopes will be measured.

Once Hubble is gone, this will be THE telescope to watch.

Personally I think it will be James Webb that discovers the existence of an alien civilization somewhere in the galaxy/universe. i.e. by imaging some alien megastructure.

But back to my idea of launching a good space telescope and renting out time on it as a commercial venture. I'm sure it will be all booked up the first week it is on offer.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by SriKumar »

Very informative set of slides, Indranil. Thanks for posting.
Materials, construction, dimensions, propellant quantity, thrust are all provided (even schedule).
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by SriKumar »

Indranil wrote:More details of SSLV. Credit to pgoi (on redditt).
Interesting that the fins control roll. So, are they active?
I assume they are active, not sure though.

The last-but-one slide talks about roll control for 2nd and 3rd stages, yet there are no fins on these stages. So what's controlling the roll there? The VTM thrust motors? Sounds strange that the terminal stage motors are controlling the roll of the entire rocket (sans the first stage). These thrusters are not even exposed to atmosphere during 2nd stage operation (thought thrust will be provided if motor was fired). All this suggests active control (with the moving c.g.).

And the graphic shows 4 of the thrusters but their orientation is not very clear from the graphic. It does not seem like any one thruster is tangential to the circular frame (to provide thrust in a roll direction). Perhaps the thrusters are angled at odd/non-standard angles relative to rocket axis and to get a pure roll action, different thrusters are turned on to vectorially cancel out unwanted thrust in the pitch or yaw direction- am speculating here.
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Amber G. »

Adding to a previous topic/post ..
Amber G. wrote:

- No one really knows where (or even if) is the nearest planet with life outside our solar system. But serious people (even wiki : ) suspects there are more than previously thought.. even reports of rocky planet near our own Alpha century , and Proxima century..
Anyway articles like below may be fun to read.
NY Times article: Far-Off Planets Like the Earth Dot the Galaxy

I may be a little sentimental here but graduate students like me, recorded greetings/namaste/ram-ram in \ many languages (including as many Indian languages our then tiny graduate student community in USA could manage), put them on a gramophone record and sent that record in interstellar space on voyage many decades ago. Voyager is still sending us data and someday, who knows, it may be captured by alien life 1000,000's years later...
<snip>
Okay I did not plant this article but A prestigious journal (This Scientific American) says the same thing and will be interest to people here.. Anyway won't this be awesome if some of those extraterrestrials join discussion in a future brf dhaga :)

The Closest Exoplanet to Earth Could Be “Highly Habitable”
A new study suggests Proxima Centauri could sustain liquid water on its surface
Image

Excerpts:
Just a cosmic hop, skip and jump away, an Earth-size planet orbits the closest star to our sun, Proxima Centauri.

Ever since the discovery of the exoplanet—known as Proxima Centauri b—in 2016, people have wondered whether it could be capable of sustaining life.

Now, using computer models similar to those used to study climate change on Earth, researchers have found that, under a wide range of conditions, Proxima Centauri b can sustain enormous areas of liquid water on its surface, potentially raising its prospects for harboring living organisms.
---
Proxima Centauri is a small, cool red-dwarf star located just 4.2 light-years from the sun. Despite its proximity, scientists still know very little about Proxima Centauri’s planetary companion, besides that its mass is at least 1.3 times that of Earth and that it goes around its parent.....

...such as the Extremely Large Telescope currently under construction in Chile, might be able to witness heat coming off Proxima Centauri b and differentiate its possible surface conditions, he added.
(As usual there are quite a few Indian scientists work in this field too)

India space program ought to work in all possible fields..even those which at present seem to "scientific" and less "practical" to some.,
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by chetak »

No rocket science, this: The framing of Nambi Narayanan may have involved three conspiracies in one

No rocket science, this: The framing of Nambi Narayanan may have involved three conspiracies in one

September 15, 2018, Arun Ram in Chennai Talkies | Edit Page,

On a cold December night in 1994, muffled voices and thuds rent the air at Latex Guest House in Thiruvananthapuram, where a couple of Intelligence Bureau officials were interrogating a leading Indian space scientist accused of selling India’s rocket secrets to Pakistan through two Maldivian women. The next morning S Nambi Narayanan, the scientist, was found slumped on the floor, cold and unconscious.

When Nambi asked his tormentors why he was being tortured, one of the men said: “You sold our motherland to the enemy. If one day we are proved wrong, you can slap us.” Nambi says he has kept his slippers ready.

Friday’s Supreme Court order granting Rs 50 lakh compensation to Nambi and constituting a committee headed by Justice DK Jain “to find out ways and means to take appropriate steps against the erring officials” is not the end of a 24-year-old battle that the scientist has been fighting – it must be the beginning of the last round. A quarter century of cases has answered the ‘what’ and, partly, the ‘who’ of the story. What remains to be told is the ‘why’ part of it.

That the Isro spy case was a figment of someone’s imagination has been clear since May 2, 1996 when the chief judicial magistrate, Ernakulam, accepted a CBI report that found the case to be a fabricated one. CBI had sent separate confidential reports, one on the IB investigation to the Union government, and the other on the special investigation team to the Kerala government.

CBI said IB’s interrogation reports were incoherent and full of contradictions, that the IB officers acted in an unprofessional manner. The central agency named then IB joint director Mathew John and deputy director RB Sreekumar for having failed to conduct a fair and objective inquiry. CBI also named Kerala police special branch inspector S Vijayan, crime branch DSP KK Joshwa and DIG Siby Mathews. These men, one presumes, are “the erring officers” the apex court was talking about.

The Justice Jain committee has the mandate to find out if there were more conspirators. The most crucial part, however, remains outside its purview: what was their intention? A discerning reader of the case since its beginning may find not one, but at least three conspiracies behind the fake Isro spy case. And if one were to arrange them chronologically, they get progressively more serious.

Conspiracy one was personal, a misadventure of a Kerala police officer called Vijayan, who arrested a Maldivian woman called Mariam Rasheeda from a lodge in Thiruvananthapuram on October 20 on charges of overstaying. Later it turned out to be false; she had gone to Vijayan to report that she may not be able to fly out despite having a ticket since there was a bandh on that day. Mariam later said the officer had sought sexual favours, and after her arrest she was tortured physically.

The first link to Isro was a telephone number Vijayan found in Mariam’s diary, that of D Sasikumaran, an Isro scientist who worked under Nambi. Mariam later said she had consulted Sasikumaran’s wife, a physician. By the end of November 1994 Vijayan and Siby Mathews had “netted” seven people, including Nambi, Sasikumaran, Fauziyya Hassan (another Maldivian woman), K Chandrasekhar (a representative of Russian space agency Glavkosmos) and SK Sharma, a labour contractor.

Conspiracy two was political. As the spy case got bigger with some Malayalam newspapers falling for the salacious details the Kerala police supplied, the AK Antony faction of Congress, which was trying to bring down the K Karunakaran government in Kerala, found an opportunity. Then Youth Congress leader Cherian Philip is on record that he was among the conspirators led by Oommen Chandy who dragged in the name of IG Raman Srivastava, who was Karunakaran’s favourite police officer, into the spy case. Finally, Karunakaran had to resign.

The third conspiracy – the one yet to be proved – may be international, and details of this episode could bring out some very dirty liaisons between some IB officers and foreign intelligence agencies. Pertinent to note is the timing of the spy case. India had just launched its first PSLV, for which Nambi was the project director for two of the four stages of the rocket. He was also heading the cryogenic engine project which was to fuel India’s future projects including interplanetary and manned missions.

It is well known that India can launch satellites at a fraction of the cost of what the US and the European Space Agency charge. India mastering satellite launches, especially with the cryogenic engine that can power bigger rockets, would mean a lot of money flow into the country that would otherwise have gone West. And someone was clearly not happy with that. They partly won, as the spy case slowed down India’s cryogenic project by at least a decade.

In his book ‘Russia in Space: The Failed Frontier’, prolific space writer Brian Harvey details how when Russia was about to hand over cryogenic technology to India, the US clamped sanctions on the two countries. It is also little known history that India had, through a smart circumvention of sanctions, flown crucial parts of the cryogenic engine from Russia in the underbelly of three Ural Airways flights less than a year before the spy case broke out.

And the man India entrusted with the operation answers to the name Nambi Narayanan. When Nambi asked his tormentors why he was being tortured, one of the men said: “You sold our motherland to the enemy. If one day we are proved wrong, you can slap us.” Nambi says he has kept his slippers ready
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Neshant »

Amber G. wrote:Adding to a previous topic/post ..
Amber G. wrote:

Okay I did not plant this article but A prestigious journal (This Scientific American) says the same thing and will be interest to people here.. Anyway won't this be awesome if some of those extraterrestrials join discussion in a future brf dhaga :)
One of the many reasons why we need a space telescope to augment ground base observatories.

Work on it should begin immediately as it will take a good 7 years before its ready to fly to space.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by rsingh »

[quote]A new study suggests Proxima Centauri could sustain liquid water on its surface[/quote]
Wrong head line. Proxima Centauri is a star. Planet PCb could sustain water that is another thing.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by SaiK »

nrshah
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by nrshah »

Launch sucess
Good night
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Indranil »

SriKumar wrote:
Indranil wrote:More details of SSLV. Credit to pgoi (on redditt).
Interesting that the fins control roll. So, are they active?
I assume they are active, not sure though.

The last-but-one slide talks about roll control for 2nd and 3rd stages, yet there are no fins on these stages. So what's controlling the roll there? The VTM thrust motors? Sounds strange that the terminal stage motors are controlling the roll of the entire rocket (sans the first stage). These thrusters are not even exposed to atmosphere during 2nd stage operation (thought thrust will be provided if motor was fired). All this suggests active control (with the moving c.g.).

And the graphic shows 4 of the thrusters but their orientation is not very clear from the graphic. It does not seem like any one thruster is tangential to the circular frame (to provide thrust in a roll direction). Perhaps the thrusters are angled at odd/non-standard angles relative to rocket axis and to get a pure roll action, different thrusters are turned on to vectorially cancel out unwanted thrust in the pitch or yaw direction- am speculating here.
Getting the roll control from the 4th stage is the same tried and tested principle used in PSLV. However, I am not sure of how this RCS works either.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Kakarat »

Sorry no pictures this time due to cloud cover and rain in Chennai, was able to see the launcher flying only for a few seconds.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by A Nandy »

ISRO now moving to a high launch cadence with the GSLV launch coming up in 15 days and more satellites launches twice a month.

https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Amber G. »

rsingh wrote:
A new study suggests Proxima Centauri could sustain liquid water on its surface[/quote]
Wrong head line. Proxima Centauri is a star. Planet PCb could sustain water that is another thing.
Many use "Proxima Century " for the star as well as the (solar) system consisting of all the planets.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by sudhan »

<Yaawn>Paarfaarmans naarmal </Yaawn>

Another hapless textbook flung into orbit
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by sudhan »

Above mentioned textbook being dispatched
:mrgreen:
Image
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by prasannasimha »

Rahul M wrote:
sudhan wrote:
You mean video recording?

AFAIK, Cartosat-2C and above have video recording feature.

I dont think there are any official sources claiming so.

Of course, tons of reports claiming info from ISRO sources:

https://indianexpress.com/article/citie ... abilities/
an ISRO gent displayed a few second clip of video tracking at a conference recently. so consider it official.
Cartosat is supposed to have video recording and real time transmission when passing a swathe of interest.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Neshant »

What happened to the earlier satellite that lost communication with the ground station some time ago.

Was it restored or is it lost forever?
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Aditya_V »

Neela wrote:ISRO Spy Verdict Out: SC says Former ISRO Scientist Nambi Narayanan "unfairly Arrested & Harassed", Orders Rs 50 Lakh Compensation


100% literate state's police personnel who tortured him were:

DGP Siby Mathews
SP K K Joshua
SP S Vijayan

I understand that above folk could be the last-mile henchmen and the brains could be at IB. But the fact the Siby writes an autobiography just made my blood boil.
You have left out one key person, RB Sreekumar- partner in one of Teesta's trusts
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by fanne »

And a certain judge who passed that verdict
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by rsingh »

Amber G. wrote:
rsingh wrote:
Many use "Proxima Century " for the star as well as the (solar) system consisting of all the planets.
Boluga tou bolenge ke bolta hie. There is this "on its surface" bit.

Any way. was scanning Birtish press. Lot of noise about how it will be used in anti piracy ops but very little on who is putting it space. There is no noise in tabloids about how UK is financing our space programme.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

Any confirmation of an early October launch of GSLV Mark 3 with GSAT-29? For months now, it has been scheduled for October. But just yesterday, there was a contradictory quote from ISRO referring to a December launch! Was the media confusing two different missions and misquoting the ISRO official? If there is a delay of two months, is there any kind of explanation given? Why the sudden change.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by A Nandy »

Carbon fibre tech for large scale structures, something we should look into as well for its lightness and strength:
https://www.businessinsider.in/Elon-Mus ... 833557.cms
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Ashokk »

'Chandrayaan 2' to be launched on January 3, says Isro chief K Sivan
The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will launch its second moon mission ‘Chandrayaan-2’ carrying an orbiter on January 3 next year. It will be launched by GSLV-MK-III.

Isro chairman K Sivan said: “We will have a series of launches 18 missions in the next six months — including GSLV-MkIII-D2/GSAT-29 Mission in December 2018. Chandrayaan-2 will carry an orbiter and a rover. It will be the first mission in the world going near the South Pole.”

'We have a window of opportunity to launch the Chandrayaan-2 mission between January 3 and February 16. But, Isro prefer January 3 for the mission', said Sivan.

Chandrayaan-2 mission will be launched by GSLV-MK-III, instead of GSLV-MK-II as planned earlier, Isro chairman said.
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

A Nandy wrote:ISRO now moving to a high launch cadence with the GSLV launch coming up in 15 days and more satellites launches twice a month.

https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
Is this accurate? Wonderful if it is. But there is a conflicting report of the GSLV Mark 3 D-2 being delayed to December. Here's hoping the media misquoted ISRO, or confused two different missions! For months now, the GSLV mark 3 D-2 was scheduled for October, after being delayed from earlier in the year.
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