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Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

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prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 15 Apr 2017 10:30

See the police escort when the satellite leaves. It is a huge convo fully armed on all sides. Road cleared ahead of time.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arun » 15 Apr 2017 10:52

GSLV Mk 2 launch scheduled for May 5th when GSLV 09 will boost GSAT-9 aka South Asia Satellite into Geo Stationary Orbit:

ISRO to launch South Asia Satellite on 5 May, Pakistan not on board

Sadly no mention of a launch date for the GSLV Mk-III aka LVM3 in the article :(

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSSalvi » 15 Apr 2017 20:22

^
^
A CISF contingent accompanies the .. yes, it is a non-VIP ( ;) ) .. escorted convoy.

Armed CISF gunman sits in the front seat along with the driver.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby RonyKJ » 16 Apr 2017 02:43

It is high time that either ISRO or the state builds an airport at Sullurpeta, the small town near SHAR. It would save a lot of time in transporting satellite payloads from Bangalore. I would think that a convoy travelling at 10mph is going to create congestion on the roadways during its 34 hour trip.
ISRO also needs a runway for the landings of RLV-TD which could be at SHAR if deemed safe.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSSalvi » 16 Apr 2017 03:28

Chennai is not far .. If possible they would have flown chartered flights TRV-MAA all these days.

RLV Landing strip currently being used in US is 4kms+ long, made of special high friction concrete about 15in thick.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arshyam » 16 Apr 2017 08:09

Or re-purpose an airfield north of Chennai for ease of access. That will keep the S'kota island clear for developmental flights - RLV, etc.

Sholavaram is a good candidate - north of the city, just off NH-5, only 80km away from the island.

https://goo.gl/maps/UwoS4aFj2Dv

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rishi_Tri » 16 Apr 2017 08:38

arun wrote:GSLV Mk 2 launch scheduled for May 5th when GSLV 09 will boost GSAT-9 aka South Asia Satellite into Geo Stationary Orbit:

ISRO to launch South Asia Satellite on 5 May, Pakistan not on board

Sadly no mention of a launch date for the GSLV Mk-III aka LVM3 in the article :(


Been looking forward to Mk III launch for sometime. Anything on why taking so long or why the delay? Cryogenic performance issues or new things to work on discovered!!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 16 Apr 2017 22:05

The GSLV Mark 3 is now scheduled to launch in the first week of June. It's infuriating, because they first announced December 2016 with certainty, then postponed it slightly to Jan 27, then to March, to April, May, finally June. Perhaps the problem lies in the cavalier publicity division of ISRO, over eager to announce launch dates, based on something they hear from within.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 16 Apr 2017 22:36

It's the culture. Accept it, move on. I don't expect any better.

prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 16 Apr 2017 23:49

Its not so simple they give a time line but when problems creep up or things need to be validated - would you jeopardize the whole program or delay till testing is completed ? These are things being developed and not things that are already in production- can you predict whether you will be alive tomorrow with uncertainty ? How will you be able to predict a complex system with high chances of failure with the slightest error ?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Bheeshma » 17 Apr 2017 00:51

The delay is acceptable with LVM-III but the fact that even GSLV-II gets pushed back is sad. Lets hope for successful launches anyway. I think with PSLV there is a lot more confidence in ISRO and GSLV-II should get there by 2018-19.

sanjaykumar
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 17 Apr 2017 03:06

prasannasimha wrote:Its not so simple they give a time line but when problems creep up or things need to be validated - would you jeopardize the whole program or delay till testing is completed ? These are things being developed and not things that are already in production- can you predict whether you will be alive tomorrow with uncertainty ? How will you be able to predict a complex system with high chances of failure with the slightest error ?



You do see the obvious logical fallacy here.

How will you be able to predict a complex system with high chances of failure with the slightest error ?

The same way they predicted a launch in December 2016.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Gagan » 17 Apr 2017 08:52

They are planning an airstrip on the Sriharikota Island itself near the ASLV launch pad and the old DRDO launch pad

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Aarvee » 17 Apr 2017 09:22

I am hoping to be at Sullurpet around the launch time and witness it. Can any one suggest any good vantage points?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSSalvi » 17 Apr 2017 11:35

Gagan wrote:They are planning an airstrip on the Sriharikota Island itself near the ASLV launch pad and the old DRDO launch pad


We had been hearing that since quite some years. But no progress. No mention in Budget doc.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Supratik » 17 Apr 2017 19:24

Mk2 is still experimental. Should not be confused with PSLV. These types of delays will happen with new systems. ISRO is not north Korea that it will test just for the heck of it. We will need to see timelines once MK2 is commercially operationalized. Even then you can face technical delays.

prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 17 Apr 2017 21:45

^ You missed the point - there is a higher inabity to give an accurate prediction in those systems. Good if it works out as per plan but there are so many ifs and buts against the best case scenario.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 19 Apr 2017 01:34

I wish they would at least give an explanation as to what is causing the delay. Even a hint, without of course revealing any confidential information or propriety know-how. Actually, I am mistaken in referring to the publicity division of ISRO as the only culprit. ISRO officials themselves, top scientists and directors, very confidently asserted a December 2016 launch in September 2016, after the successful GSLV F05/Insat 3Dr mission. Nothing like a tentative We hope to have the flight in 3 months time, but a rather cocky prediction of a December mission. So dont they feel they owe the public some kind of explanation, or are the people simply unimportant to them on these matters

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 19 Apr 2017 04:10

I don't think they owe us explanations for the delays. But I am in the group of people who believe that they don't have to publish target dates and then go back on them. They can publish the date whenever they are absolutely sure.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby srai » 19 Apr 2017 07:15

Indranil wrote:I don't think they owe us explanations for the delays. But I am in the group of people who believe that they don't have to publish target dates and then go back on them. They can publish the date whenever they are absolutely sure.

Problem with publicly announced timelines is that in some people's mind that gets set in stone. People fail to see if timelines have changed due to various reasons, which may or may not be announced to the public. For complex projects, timelines will change more often than not. Estimation is not an exact science. There are many moving parts and any of them could cause delays to the overall. One may think certain thing is doable within x amount of time but only to realize that it's going to take a lot more time after digging in deeper. Every detail (and revisions) won't be announced to the public. IMO, ISRO/DRDO et al should not announce hard dates to the public. They should make it more cryptic by only announcing anticipated number of months/years for project completion and with caveats (i.e. provided following conditions are met etc).

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSridhar » 19 Apr 2017 13:49

Good news guys. Launches are not far away.

ISRO planning 3 satellite launches in May: Director P V Venkitakrishnan - ToI
CHENNAI: Isro is planning three launches in May including GSLV MK-II carrying the South Asia Satellite and the first developmental flight of GSLV MK-III, capable of lifting a 4-tonne payload, said P V Venkitakrishnan, director, Isro Propulsion Complex on Tuesday.

Speaking on the sidelines of the 58th Institute Day of IIT Madras, Venkitakrishnan said there would be at least a 25-day gap between GSLV MK-II, scheduled to be launched early in the month, and GSLV MK-III planned for the end of May. The time between the two launches will enable scientists to refurbish the stages, as both the rockets will take off from the same launch pad. Isro chairman Kiran Kumar had earlier said GSLV MK-II would be launched on May 5.

PSLV C38 is also planned for next month, but the launch will happen depending on the priority and availability of the satellites, Venkitakrishnan said. "The vehicles are ready," he added.

Expressing confidence over the success of the first developmental flight of GSLV MK-III powered by an indigenous cryogenic upper stage, Venkitakrishnan said they would have two more developmental flights to optimise its payload capacity before reaching the operational phase.

"When we did the first stage test for 50 seconds on the cryogenic upper stage for MK-III, we did not face any problem. We did it right in the first go and I don't think there will be any problem in the first flight," he said.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arun » 20 Apr 2017 14:43

^^^ If ISRO lofts both the GSLV marks in May, I will forgive ISRO for the PSLV launch slipping to June.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arun » 20 Apr 2017 14:44

New plant to manufacture DiNitrogen Tetroxide (N2O4) for use as an oxidiser in ISRO’s liquid fuelled rocket engines to be set up by National Fertiliser Ltd. (NFL) in Madhya Pradesh. Plant to come up by January 2019 and have a capacity of 1095MT p.a.:

National Fertilizers to set up dinitrogen tetroxide plant for ISRO

It will invest Rs 350 crores for the 1095-MTPA propellant plant, which will be located at Guna (MP)

Rakesh Rao | Mumbai April 19, 2017 Last Updated at 12:16 IST

National Fertilizers Ltd (NFL) will set up a production plant for dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4) at its Vijaipur (Guna, Madhya Pradesh) site for ISRO (Indian Space Research Organisation) with an investment of Rs 350 crores. The company has received a letter of intent (LoI) from Satish Dhawan Space Centre, Sriharikota (SDSC-SHAR) for establishing the plant on build, own, operate & supply model. ISRO had invited tenders for establishing the dinitrogen tetroxide plant in August 2016.

Nitrogen tetroxide is used as oxidiser in specific stages of rocket launch vehicles launched by ISRO and also used for ground testing of specific engines and stages of launch vehicles.

Debt-ridden public sector undertaking (PSU) Hindustan Organic Chemicals Limited (HOCL) is the sole producer of N2O4 for ISRO. With N2O4 production continuing intermittently at HOCL, experts believe ISRO has been looking at setting up a new plant for assured supply of this key chemical.

As per the LoI, National Fertilizers’ N2O4 plant will have capacity of around 1095 MT per annum (or 3 tonnes per day). The company plans to start construction work for the project in July 2017, with commissioning expected in the next 18 months. NFL will supply the product exclusively to SDSC-SHAR under long term agreement for 25 years period.


From Business Standard:

Clicky

Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 20 Apr 2017 20:25

arun wrote:^^^ If ISRO lofts both the GSLV marks in May, I will forgive ISRO for the PSLV launch slipping to June.


Same here! :D Two GSLV's in one month, or in the span of one month( May 5-June 5) will be very impressive, and unprecedented in India. And if PSLV-38 also goes up in that period, ISRO will earn credit in the forgiveness department :D A delay in the next mission after these, will be excused 8)

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSridhar » 21 Apr 2017 07:23

After Mars, ISRO decides it’s time to probe Venus - Madhumathi D.S. - The Hindu

Venus, described as Earth's twin sister, is similar to our planet in size, mass, density, gravity, and is also believed to be around 4.5 billion years old. PTI

It’s official. The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has invited scientists to suggest studies for a potential orbiter mission to Venus - somewhat similar to the one that landed in Mars in 2013.

ISRO plans to send a spacecraft that will initially go around Venus in an elliptical orbit before getting closer to the ‘Yellow Planet’. It will carry instruments weighing 175 kg and using 500W of power. The scientific community has been told to suggest space-based studies by May 19.


"The Announcement of Opportunity [AO] is just the beginning. The studies must be finalised, a project report would have to be presented and approved. A formal mission may not happen before 2020," a senior ISRO official told The Hindu.

A mission must be approved by ISRO's Advisory Committee on Space Sciences, then the Space Commission and later by the government.

Venus, the second planet from the Sun, comes closest to Earth roughly every 583 days, or about 19 months.

Venus, our closest planetary neighbour, is similar to Earth in many aspects. However, it takes only 225 days to revolve around the Sun. Secondly, the surface is very hot due to nearness to the Sun.

India's previous and second planetary outing, the record-setting Rs. 450-crore Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) of 2013, continues to impress. The orbiter is going round the Red Planet even as you read this — well beyond its planned life of six months.

An orbiter sent to the Moon in 2008 was delivering data until about three months before its estimated life span. A second Moon landing mission is planned in early 2018.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 21 Apr 2017 08:59

Jingoes on this thread will wring their hands and do rona-dhona when launch of their fav. launcher is delayed.

Jingoes on this thread will wring their hands and do rona-dhona when launch of airstrip construction is proposed but never undertaken.

Jingoes on this thread will ALSO wring their hands and do rona-dhona when a launch fails.

Point is - there is one constant - Jingoes on this thread will wring their hands and do rona-dhona. :-D

In a way., it is a good thing. At least we are expecting results from ISRO and the bar has been set so high. Unlike the days of ASLV where there were two launch failures consecutively and one had to wait for almost half a decade to get some good news.

Launch delays can happen several reasons., and yes launch schedules can slip. Based on new information coming in. Based on discovery of some new protocols that may cause a future problem or mitigate a problem and that needs to be implemented. Launch delays can also happen because the launcher is ready but the payload is not. Or the payload is ready but the tracking system is not. Or everything is ready but the launch window is not available.

Remember, for launching 100+ satellites ISRO had to manage several thousand variables. And each variable is a test point. We would not know the number of variables going into GSLV-MK III until we hear after launch comments.

ISRO does lot of good things and lot of not so good things. If I have to wring my hands and do rona-dhona., I will do on the following:

1. Their website. They have improved it - but still it is 4/10 IMHO
2. Their launch coverage. It is: -1/10.
3. They did hear some jingoes on this thread (or so we can lead ourselves to believe) and put cameras on the launch. Still on the video coverage - I will give them 1/10. Where is the high speed color camera capturing every moment of the launch from countdown to ignition to clearing of tower to rise into stratosphere?
4. Increase in budget., RLV-TD needs to be scaled up and scaled up fast. It should be on a mission mode like GLSV-mkIII. Here ISRO gets 5/10.
5. Marketing (my score 1/10):
1. They should have a ceremony where some coconuts are taken on a highly decorated bullock cart (A village is chosen from India to send its prized bulls and the bullock cart and they are sent in style - maybe on a AI flight) and the coconuts ceremoniously broken near the launch pad and coconut water sprinkled.
2. Every launch they should have a 5 minute segment on how "INSAT" saves the lives during cyclone followed by a morose like Jean Druze stating how spending money saving lives is such a waste for India's space program. This in interest of 'editorial' balance.
3. Show a video on rocket disasters across the world. Like the great cartwheels done by NASA and Russia and NoKo rockets and the famous rockets of cheen that exploded on villages. And then point out that space exploration is a very very very high risk business.

---

Coming to "airport on sulurpeta"., sulurpeta comes under Gov. of AP and they can promote it as a tourist hub. It is their choice. And ISRO can have ex-ISRO personnel who can take the visitors on a guided tour around ISRO into non-sensitive areas.

---

On the question of taking the 'delicate satellites' via truck., well CISF provides the security for all ISRO operations. At the same time, the sats are not so delicate that they cannot endure a truck ride. In fact., the ride to the space is not so smooth. All Sat buses have to go through the shake & bake test to qualify for a ride on to the launch.

---

Landing

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby arun » 22 Apr 2017 09:39

Speaking of road transportation of satellites, ISRO has taken care of road transportation issues by using a specially designed Satellite Transportation System (STS).

Checkout the below link which dates back to the August 2015 transport of Astrosat from Bangalore to Sriharikota by road:

………………. The STS is built with a suspension cradle that attenuates shock, vibration and handling loads. Double walled thermally insulated, sealed encapsulation structure of STS shields satellite from climatic hazards such as temperature, humidity, contamination, rain, dust, differential pressure, etc. Robust all metallic Faraday’s cage design and low resistance electrical bonding of STS provides Electro Static Discharge (ESD) path and protection against RF radiation hazards. …………….


Satellite Transportation Systems (STS)

Next a journal article dating back to 1999 on the subject of satellite transportation:

Safety Systems For Satellite Transportation

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 25 Apr 2017 20:20

http://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-f09-gsat-9

Some bright news, first mention of the GSLV Mark2/South Asia sat mission, it is Fri May 5. Weight of the satellite will be 2230kg, more than what was first announced, 2195


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