Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

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Amber G.
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 16 Aug 2018 00:16

abhijitm wrote:Why Gagan? Gagan means sky, isn't it? Should be Avkash or Antriksha... space equivalent.

Anyway, great great news!

FWIW - (From what I know) The accepted terms are gaganyaan, gaganaut etc .. these find uses in wiki, US and Indian newspapers etc..
(In sanskrit, the root meaning of gagan in not physical sky (blue sky due to Raleigh scattering per physicists) but rather abstract "heavenly sky" (one of the five basic elements and not different than antriksha).

Other terms I have heard is vyomnaut .. but not as common as gagan..
Anyway time will tell which term(s) becomes most popular..

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 16 Aug 2018 00:24

Vyomanaut was the name decided after a competition by ISRO. The strong competitor was Gaganayatri

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 16 Aug 2018 00:42

Chandrayaan would not be delayed per se. The flight is already delayed due to some weight increase issues necessitating shift to Mk3 so this will be anyway one of the Mk3 flights.
Anyway Chandrayaan 2 is already in a fairly advanced level of completion and nitty grtty fine points are the issues that are delaying the project. There was a video the rover being tested as well as the docking experiment.some time back.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Prem » 16 Aug 2018 01:25


Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 16 Aug 2018 02:47

Here is another program on the manned mission of ISRO. VIshnu Som hosting. Pretty good. Also has a segment of Pallav Bagla wearing the space suit developed by ISRO.

https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/ndtv-sp ... ial-491571

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 16 Aug 2018 04:34

The 2022 goal is nice.

I wish we set similar deadlines for the TSTO and reusable rockets.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby A Nandy » 18 Aug 2018 14:50

Lalithambika V.R., a scientist who has played a role in building India’s rocket programme has been selected to lead the country’s Human Space Flight Programme.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 450174.cms

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SaiK » 18 Aug 2018 19:38

Complex task!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby kit » 18 Aug 2018 20:26

2020 seems to a bit tight but ISRO seems to be confident, i guess taking some Russian and Ukranian consultancy would not be a bad idea. Would be really proud to see an Indian astronaut in space as the country celebrates its 75th independence day !

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 18 Aug 2018 22:05

^2022,not 2020

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 18 Aug 2018 22:33

dinesha wrote:India will put man in space for seven days: ISRO Chairman
https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 485_1.html
Asked about the first animal flight before the actual manned mission, Sivan said those things have to be discussed.


Sometimes I want to bang my head into wall with disgust on the amount of ill-knowledge our journos carry and their ego which is directly proportional to their ill-knowledge.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 18 Aug 2018 22:44

kit wrote:2020 seems to a bit tight but ISRO seems to be confident, i guess taking some Russian and Ukranian consultancy would not be a bad idea. Would be really proud to see an Indian astronaut in space as the country celebrates its 75th independence day !


Ukranian? Let's not be so humble and in that end up discrediting our own achievements! We are the first nation in the world to have launched our own mangalyaan on our own rocket using our own algorithms (and our own ingliss ascents) in first attempt successfully and then we run to ookranians who fire off soviet era rockets for "consultancy".

It is a bad idea.
Last edited by disha on 19 Aug 2018 01:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 18 Aug 2018 22:46

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Here is another program on the manned mission of ISRO. VIshnu Som hosting. Pretty good. Also has a segment of Pallav Bagla wearing the space suit developed by ISRO.


I do not think we should post anything from rNDTV here. It is an anti-national channel and will slyly discredit all achievements of ISRO.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 18 Aug 2018 23:47

We are crazy nation, we sre planning to launch a human in space before we can launch all of our satellites.

Many leaders in US and all over the world have tried to repeat a Kennedy challenge but it haven’t really worked worked that great after moon shot. With vision should come a large/open checkbook and broadbase public and establishment support.

Great that an initiative hasbeen taken but personally i would have spent this money on developing heavy lift and reusable rockets (10+ ton) which would have created a lot more scientific and commercial value for the nation.

Man in the space is a good PR but have little value, what would we do after putting a man on orbit? Put another one, for what purpose. There is a reason no other nation except China has tried to do it after cold war. Sending landers/orbiters to planets and moons is much better scientific investment than hurling couple of Indians to low earth orbit for a few days.

May be we are looking to build a space station or join ISP

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby JayS » 18 Aug 2018 23:59

^^ Capability to send a man in Space implicitly means a guaranteed reliable heavy launch capability since thats what is needed to lauch manned missions. Precisely because such things have higher visibility and PR value its good to have such goals once in a while which helps galvanize entire Nation to put concentrated efforts for some tangible milestone. How many heads would turn or even take note had our PM declared ISRo will develop 10T launch capability by 2022..?? Mango man couldnt care less about technical details. But mango man's support is needed nonetheless.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 19 Aug 2018 00:55

I don’t think there is any plan to develop any new high payload vehicle for the man in space fling. Anyhow it isn’t possible to do it in 4 years with focus on man mission.

With that said, I fully understand and see the point you are making although I have my doubt that we are not rich enough to spend 10s of thousand of corers on exercises whos central value proposition is PR. American’s did it because they were fighting cold war, Chinese did it because that’s what authoritarian communists govt do to legitimize their power. Rest of the nations kindda decided against it or piggy backed on uncle’s rigs. Why are we doing it? PR is the only plausible answer that I can see. The money could have been spent better on any number of scientific or space endeavors. Anyhow i expect at least some side benefits should come out of it. This is just one man’s opinion so take it for whatever it’s worth to uou.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 19 Aug 2018 01:16

Indranil wrote:
disha wrote:
Where are you going to source such fuel from?

They run on methane. Not very difficult to get or even generate.

SRBs are here to stay. And yes they will become all composites, but even then they will have significantly larger inert weight than liquid stages. I don’t see any technologies on the horizon to take their ISPs beyond 275 seconds. In the meantime semi cryo ISPs are touching 330 seconds at sea level.


Couple of your points that need to be addressed. First. there is a shift of discussion from Semi Cryo (which I took it as discussion on Kerosene+LOX) to MethoLox which is firmly a Cryo fuel.

I am glad that there is rethink on Kerosene-LOX on this forum., since on paper it looks great but in reality it brings in another set of problems. Particularly when its tail end infrastructure is long and costly.

One should note that kerosene was used by NASA/Soviet space program for various reasons including ready availability of kerosene (raw material). India got control of refineries only in 1976. Imagine going to Burma-Shell refinery in 1975 and asking for a specialized kerosene for rocket fuel when your first SLV is actually few years away and leave alone a GSLV-MkIII which is several decades away (40 years precisely, when somebody who joined in 1975 at 25 years would be packing their retirement bags on the eve of GSLV-MKIII).

Later US/Soviet/Russian space programs, including private ones like SpaceX reused the infrastructure developed for KeroLox. For ISRO to do the same will be replicating US/Soviet "process" in Indian setting. It is akin to wearing a 3-piece black-tie suit in Rajasthan during peak summer and going for a hike in the desert.

Looks TFTA but useless.

There is no operational major advantage of Semi-Cryo using Kero-LOX over SRBs other than the prospect of reusability. However the gain in reusability is lost in complicated design around clustering. In nutshell Semi-Cryo using Kerosene-LOX is a dead end. To gain massive thrust, the engines need to be clustered and that complicates operations. Re-usability is a prospect but not a given with Kerosene-LOX.

I think this is realized by others and hence the subtle shift in the discussion from Kerosene-LOX to Metholox for semi-cryo! Glad to see that Kerosene-LOX for Semi-Cryo for Indian space is buried. UDMH+N204 is a great substitute for KeroLox. ISRO has extensive experience working with it. Also it can be restarted, which ISRO demonstrated during Mangalyaan.

From ISP or payload capacity viewpoint, Kerolox or Semi-Cryo based on Kerosene is useless for ISRO. ISRO has better choices in liquid propellants (LOX/LOH, UDMH/N204) and validated design, engines and experience.

And at this point I do caution to not use spreadsheets and ISPs to create imaginary engines which are totally useless as operational stages.

If one has to only go by ISPs., then here are some of my fuel recommendations:

1. Hydrogen + Fluorine
2. Lithium + Fluorine
3. Oxygen + Boranes (DiBoranes, PentaBoranes)

But again the above are useless once it is taken out of spreadsheets and put on table top, leave alone an experimental engine. An operational stage is far far away.

So now the discussion shifts from semi-cryo based on Kerolox to Metholox. metholox is NOT semi-cryo. Methane is gaseous at room temperature and chilled to -173*C (O2 is chilled to -181*C for comparison). Any fuel chilled below -100*C is cryo.

Even MethoLox is useless. Here is the ISP of APCP Solid Booster:Kerolox:Metholox:LOX/LOH => 285/303:340/360:330/356:453/465*. Note that UDMH/N204 ISP is @330 (vacuum). Which compares very well with KeroLox/MethoLox.

As one can see, that the APCP itself has crossed the "300 ISP Vaccum" barrier. The Metholox is at most 20% more compared to APCP. And not quite with the ability of massive thrust which APCP (or solid motors provide) (unless of course clustered).

Still I support research on Metholox. Not as a primary stage. But its use in the Sabatier process. If ISRO is to land a rocket on an asteroid and bring back some payload, it will need to perfect the Sabatier process in space and will require Metholox engines. Again this are not massively clustered engines or high thrust engines.

KeroLox or MethoLox will give payload nirvana is pure fallacy. It is a shibboleth initiated based on excellent understanding of spreadsheets but complete misunderstanding of space engineering.

Even to say that Metholox will be better than KeroLox for better payload indicates gaps in understanding of rocket stage design. Here is a paper discusses kerolox/metholox from a reusable stage perspective: https://www.dlr.de/Portaldata/55/Resources/dokumente/sart/0095-0212prop.pdf ** Of course metholox is investigated for better reusability (Kerolox create immense sooting/coking problems that require elaborate cleaning and re-certification and hence are not necessarily cost effective. Metholox also has sooting/coking problems, but lesser than Kerolox ).

Here is another reason why SRBs are going to be mainstream as "boosters". Their reliability is proven. They can be re-usable as well. And their ISP will approach Semi-Cryo in a couple of decades!

The current crop of SRBs (Solid Rocket Boosters) use designs and processes initiated in 1960s/1970s. :D. Yes., even the massive SRB used in GSLV MkIII is designed from science/technologies/processes evolved from 1970s. It will definitely be an ignorant and arrogant statement to say that there has been no further research carried out on Solid Fuels since then!

Here is a fuel which is reliable, provides massive thrust (volume to thrust ratio is very high!) and can be used for re-usable stages. So how can now improve the ISP? Which is actually a function of understanding the chemistry of the material that goes as Solid fuel.

Look at the Minotaur IV/V rockets, they are all solid and they use HMX as fuel. HMX based fuel easily gives it ISPs in the range of 310s. Of course there is 'eco-friendly' solid propellant based on HTPB+HMX developed by desis and tested on 'small' motors of 2Kgs which give ISP of 293s.***

And here is another point., CL20 based solid propellants are giving @320/@330 ISPs. They are better and safer than HMX based solid propellants.

So in a two or three decades, if ISRO puts out an SRB with 15 MN (15 Mega Newtons compared to current 5 MN booster) and with an ISP @320 s., please do not suck your thumbs and ask for more payload :rotfl: Or go out in a huff and design your own launch family based on some spreadsheets. ****

Indranil'ji, please prove that there is no technology in the horizon (10 years/20 years from now) that take ISPs of SRBs beyond 300s.

*A typical, well-designed ammonium perchlorate composite propellant (APCP) first-stage motor may have a vacuum specific impulse (Isp) as high as 285.6 seconds (Titan IVB SRMU). This compares to 339.3 s for kerosene/liquid oxygen (RD-180)[12] and 452.3 s for hydrogen/oxygen (Block II SSME)[13] bipropellant engines. Upper stage specific impulses are somewhat greater: as much as 303.8 s for APCP (Orbus 6E),[14] 359 s for kerosene/oxygen (RD-0124)[15] and 465.5 s for hydrogen/oxygen (RL10B-2).

The metholox ISP is taken from the projected Raptor Engine of SpaceX

** It took me some days to get the paper out.

***https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/%28SICI%291521-4087%28199804%2923%3A2%3C90%3A%3AAID-PREP90%3E3.0.CO%3B2-%23.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a220198.pdf -> chemistry behind physics of SRB

**** you/yours -> please read it in 3rd party. Where I am specific, I will call out specifically.
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 19 Aug 2018 01:20

Katare wrote:We are crazy nation, we sre planning to launch a human in space before we can launch all of our satellites.


We need to send man to space so that we can then send them to moon. At one point we need to start building an outpost on moon that then launches space trucks to mine asteroids.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 19 Aug 2018 01:24

Katare wrote:I have my doubt that we are not rich enough to spend 10s of thousand of corers on exercises whos central value proposition is PR. American’s did it because they were fighting cold war, Chinese did it because that’s what authoritarian communists govt do to legitimize their power. Rest of the nations kindda decided against it or piggy backed on uncle’s rigs. Why are we doing it? PR is the only plausible answer that I can see. The money could have been spent better on any number of scientific or space endeavors. Anyhow i expect at least some side benefits should come out of it. This is just one man’s opinion so take it for whatever it’s worth to uou.


1. It is an investment., Any money spent on space will return at least 2x if not 3x returns. For example, the thermal tiles developed if commercialized can save crores of rupees in electricity when used as insulators in "air conditioned malls".

2. Water recycling units? Scale it up to solve water problems.

3. Electrical batteries and Solar Cells? Well everybody wants to commercialize it.

I will not be surprised if the payoffs is in the order of 5x.

Now coming to space politics, if the commies in Cheen want to pursue space for H & D reason and not for improving the life of their citizens, it is their problem. Why are we tying it down to ISRO or India?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby chola » 19 Aug 2018 01:52

disha wrote:
Katare wrote:I have my doubt that we are not rich enough to spend 10s of thousand of corers on exercises whos central value proposition is PR. American’s did it because they were fighting cold war, Chinese did it because that’s what authoritarian communists govt do to legitimize their power. Rest of the nations kindda decided against it or piggy backed on uncle’s rigs. Why are we doing it? PR is the only plausible answer that I can see. The money could have been spent better on any number of scientific or space endeavors. Anyhow i expect at least some side benefits should come out of it. This is just one man’s opinion so take it for whatever it’s worth to uou.


1. It is an investment., Any money spent on space will return at least 2x if not 3x returns. For example, the thermal tiles developed if commercialized can save crores of rupees in electricity when used as insulators in "air conditioned malls".

2. Water recycling units? Scale it up to solve water problems.

3. Electrical batteries and Solar Cells? Well everybody wants to commercialize it.

I will not be surprised if the payoffs is in the order of 5x.

Now coming to space politics, if the commies in Cheen want to pursue space for H & D reason and not for improving the life of their citizens, it is their problem. Why are we tying it down to ISRO or India?


Yes and I think it is dangerous to assume that the chinis are onlee doing for H & D. I don’t see any evidence for why we should ever think so because I don’t see the chinis doing anything that doesn’t eventually end up in an industry with economy of scale.

They are in space because they want to exploit it. Just like they were exploiting the solar cell and electric battery industries ten years ago before dominating them today.

Unleash ISRO and let it compete. Mark my word, space travel will be commercialized at some point just like air travel.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SaiK » 19 Aug 2018 06:39

It doesn't hurt to send our vyomans to NASA on training missions.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 19 Aug 2018 11:36

Disha ji,

I am aware of there being a VERY BIG gap between doing first order Excel calculations and building actual rockets. That’s why I asked if anybody knew the real reasons behind not going down these obvious configs. There must be good reasons which I don’t know of. I want to learn not pontificate. You did write a long post, but you did not answer the question.

Coming to ISP studies of solids versus semi cryo versus metholox engines. You wrote a very elaborate post. But show me where I wrote that metholox is preferred because of higher ISP. They are being developed for better reusability. By the way, ISRO is planning to test reuasability after desooting in the near future. Let the other details come out in due time.

But, I am really surprised that you call the ISPs of kerolox/metholox as near equivalent of SRBs! I wonder why would they use the SC200 stage at all! Just use another S200 stage! Truth is that payloads are quite sensitive to ISPs. That’s why using a SC200 even at the low stage gives over 1 ton more payload than the L110 stage.

I did not know that ISRO is developing a SRB based on HTPB+CL20. Countries having CL20 equivalents for the past 30 years haven’t gone down that path either. So, at this point, talk of SRBs with an ISP of 330 is merely speculation. Actually, I have read many defense of the SRBs, and I agree with their many advantages. But yours is the first one that argues based on ISPs. If in the future, it turns out that reusable SRBs with very high ISPs serve as the core of reusable rockets, I will have to eat my own words. But what is the big deal in that?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 19 Aug 2018 12:28

CL20 is very very costly. Thats why it is only used till date in ICBM like things. Not for commercial pursuit where cost it key

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby A Nandy » 19 Aug 2018 13:34

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 457060.cms


CHENNAI: Five satellites of the Indian Space Research Organisation are playing a key role in saving lives in rain-battered Kerala

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 19 Aug 2018 17:13

prasannasimha wrote:CL20 is very very costly. Thats why it is only used till date in ICBM like things. Not for commercial pursuit where cost it key


So you agree that CL20 based boosters are already in production.

Do you agree that CL20 provides higher ISP than HTBP?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 19 Aug 2018 17:15

SaiK wrote:It doesn't hurt to send our vyomans to NASA on training missions.


What will you train them on?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 19 Aug 2018 22:42

disha wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:CL20 is very very costly. Thats why it is only used till date in ICBM like things. Not for commercial pursuit where cost it key


So you agree that CL20 based boosters are already in production.

Do you agree that CL20 provides higher ISP than HTBP?


CL 20 isp IS 272.6

Currently there is no civilian CL20 based booster and even limited use in military rockets

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby kit » 19 Aug 2018 23:58

Katare wrote:We are crazy nation, we sre planning to launch a human in space before we can launch all of our satellites.

Many leaders in US and all over the world have tried to repeat a Kennedy challenge but it haven’t really worked worked that great after moon shot. With vision should come a large/open checkbook and broadbase public and establishment support.

Great that an initiative hasbeen taken but personally i would have spent this money on developing heavy lift and reusable rockets (10+ ton) which would have created a lot more scientific and commercial value for the nation.

Man in the space is a good PR but have little value, what would we do after putting a man on orbit? Put another one, for what purpose. There is a reason no other nation except China has tried to do it after cold war. Sending landers/orbiters to planets and moons is much better scientific investment than hurling couple of Indians to low earth orbit for a few days.

May be we are looking to build a space station or join ISP



dont underestimate PR value.. the american moon landing literally too off their defence and space industries ..as well as enhancing their technological prowess .

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby kit » 20 Aug 2018 00:01

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/mission_oriented_r_and_i_policies_case_study_report_apollo_project-us.pdf
A confluence of political necessity, personal commitment and activism, scientific and
technological ability, economic prosperity, and public mood made the Apollo Mission
possible.
53
 The reliance on the private sector was a key success factor for the project, attracting
talent and resources from the emerging aerospace industry and the country’s leading
research universities.54
 The programme management concept was recognised as a critical factor of Apollo
Project’s success by Science magazine in November 1968.55 In fact, understanding
the management of complex structures for the successful completion of different
political and technological tasks was an important outgrowth of the Apollo project.
 Everyone on the Project team (more than 400 000 people were directly involved)
seemed to share a common vision, no matter the function they had to perform. The
documents point to a pride of belonging: “Somehow or other, when we came
together, we were greater than the sum of our parts. We became capable of doing
what in most cases, would be considered impossible. We were better than we ever
expected to be. We were more successful than we were expected to be. And really,
with the exception of a bad accident on the launch pad, we brought every crewman
home

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 20 Aug 2018 00:40

prasannasimha wrote: CL 20 isp IS 272.6


Thanks. Do you have public cited sources for the above?

Different point is, even if limited - CL20 is already used in production boosters.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 20 Aug 2018 03:53

Disha ji,

They are preferred for being more smoke less. For ISRO/DRDO the focus is on having composite motor casings and parts. DRDO is also dabbling with NEPE based propellants.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 20 Aug 2018 22:05

disha wrote:
prasannasimha wrote: CL 20 isp IS 272.6


Thanks. Do you have public cited sources for the above?

Different point is, even if limited - CL20 is already used in production boosters.


https://books.google.co.in/books?id=Goa06nGm5AEC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=CL+20+isp+IS+272.6&source=bl&ots=XoZYanaRHH&sig=gEGPB0sh0GRsFceQn82RgBTU0vQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjx7bvPhvzcAhVKLo8KHZuLDP4Q6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=CL%2020%20isp%20IS%20272.6&f=false

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SSridhar » 22 Aug 2018 16:20

India seeks its own “Gagarin Moment” - Ajay lele, Space Review
Excerpts
There are reports that ISRO is working on space docking experiments and has already completed some ground simulations.

The other option with India is to develop a vehicle like the Russian Soyuz. This is a single-use vehicle that would return astronauts to a predesignated landing zone. Some reports indicate that India may accept assistance from Russia
India may require assistance from the US and/or Russia. On the space front, and also otherwise, India has good relations with both nations. However, the challenge for India is manage the project within a limited timeframe.
Probably, as per ISRO’s scheme of prioritization, now the time for a human mission has come. Hence, after receiving the green signal from ISRO, the Indian prime minister must have made the announcement.
As a part of pre-project developments during the last couple of years India should have ensured that they also become a part of the International Space Station program. Though some discussions did take place in that direction, India has missed an opportunity here. By now a few Indians could have taken astronaut training possibly even could have been to the ISS.

Amber G.
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 22 Aug 2018 19:39

I am glad/proud of current strong partnership between US and India in science and space. NASA instrument aboard ISRO’s Chandrayaan mission provided the most definitive evidence of water ice on Moon... and it is in the news today.
Image
Ice Confirmed at the Moon's Poles

ArjunPandit
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 22 Aug 2018 20:51

^^ Great day for us, Not whining on this glorious day, but if it is Chandrayan I would have preferred it to be done by an indian only. Hope Chandrayan2 brings us more such glories, and with MoM

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rishi_Tri » 22 Aug 2018 22:04

SSridhar wrote:India seeks its own “Gagarin Moment” - Ajay lele, Space Review
Excerpts
There are reports that ISRO is working on space docking experiments and has already completed some ground simulations.

The other option with India is to develop a vehicle like the Russian Soyuz. This is a single-use vehicle that would return astronauts to a predesignated landing zone. Some reports indicate that India may accept assistance from Russia
India may require assistance from the US and/or Russia. On the space front, and also otherwise, India has good relations with both nations. However, the challenge for India is manage the project within a limited timeframe.
Probably, as per ISRO’s scheme of prioritization, now the time for a human mission has come. Hence, after receiving the green signal from ISRO, the Indian prime minister must have made the announcement.
As a part of pre-project developments during the last couple of years India should have ensured that they also become a part of the International Space Station program. Though some discussions did take place in that direction, India has missed an opportunity here. By now a few Indians could have taken astronaut training possibly even could have been to the ISS.


Modern day commentators need to come out of 'Gagarin Moment' type mentality. It shall be India moment, a nation that in 1947 faced the ignominy of not being able to manufacture their own sewing needles. As to help, all help should be renounced. Only then one shall be totally independent.

As to use, what use was Wright Brothers flying their biplane when it first flew? Rest is History. Space is the next frontier and without any limits. 100 years from now people may very well be traveling out of Milky Way into other galaxies and we are questioning going up 100 kms in Sky.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby A Nandy » 26 Aug 2018 13:46

100 years from now people may very well be traveling out of Milky Way into other galaxies

That maybe a bit far. But possible sure.

If Muskmelon pulls of his Mars landing and terraforming + colonization takes off, we will expand like anything 8)

Amber G.
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 26 Aug 2018 20:37

^^^ Don't want to spoil the fun but just to put things into perspective...

If we make 1000X (Yes 1000 times) progress in propulsion system it will take about 100 years just to reach Alpha Century -- another 4 years or so just to send the message back to earth :). This will require power source as strong as best nuclear reactors with average speed of about 15,000 Km/sec. Just to know that it is more than 500 times the average speed of Mangalyaan's journey to Mars.

Also Alpha Century is our nearest other star system..
Our galaxy's is about 25000 times this distance (100,000 lightyears) across.

And, of course the nearest galaxy, say Andromeda is 200,000,000 light years away! It takes light 200 million years and we know nothing which travels faster (in fact typical speed is .01% (10,000 times) less than that for our advance space crafts.

So "100 years from now people may very well be traveling out of Milky Way into other galaxies".. is not that likely :)

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 26 Aug 2018 21:47

^You are right. However, it takes just a couple of breakthroughs in the constraints of physics to solve these problems. Already there are theoretical solutions like Alcubierre drive that allow faster than light travel while conforming to Einstein's field equations.


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