Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

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Katare
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 30 Aug 2018 05:59

Disha,
Those are just wild hypothesis not defined science. No one have developed an equation that defines a wormhole creation.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 30 Aug 2018 06:43

Katare wrote:
Amber G. wrote:Depending on what one may think "seriously thinking about" really is .. but FWIW a few comments..
- There are some serious "plans" for Manned (or unmanned) flights to Alpha Century (or near by stars) -- here by plan I mean some serious thinking. These involve time period of about 100 (or 50 years) for nearest stars. (extrapolating current technologies)... These are in existence for last few decades in serious writings (IMO).

- Unmanned object like Voyager etc which may take 100,000 or 1000,000 years have been launched and will be launched.

- As sending "data" or listening to data - we can theoretically communicate with any one in our galaxy provided they have a radio-telescope like we do.

Interesting part is SETI type projects (which search for life outside our solar system) are few decades old.. Now with Modi govt and more interest in space and science we have quite a few Indian Scientists and Institutes (and hopefully more to come) who are currently investing in projects like this. You may hear more stories like this:
Indian Scientist is Working in a $100m Project, Searching for Aliens!


How would you communicate with anyone living couple of hundred light years away from us?

Nearest star that has a planet which could be a candidate for life is 200 light years away. I.... .

To add - (Few comments only to make science clear or add value .. not arguing for/against interstellar in practical near future terms)
- My definition of "communicate" is not instantaneous or even two way communications..Even not that long - 50 years - ago my 'communications' with my father typically took few weeks by letter. It was years/decades before journeys like Maro Polo were able to call back home. Years or even 100's of year over radio telescope is okay in my book and worth exploring and we are doing that. Seriously we are actively looking for those signals from near by stars.

- No one really knows where (or even if) is the nearest planet with life outside our solar system. But serious people (even wiki : ) suspects there are more than previously thought.. even reports of rocky planet near our own Alpha century , and Proxima century..
Anyway articles like below may be fun to read.
NY Times article: Far-Off Planets Like the Earth Dot the Galaxy

I may be a little sentimental here but graduate students like me, recorded greetings/namaste/ram-ram in \ many languages (including as many Indian languages our then tiny graduate student community in USA could manage), put them on a gramophone record and sent that record in interstellar space on voyage many decades ago. Voyager is still sending us data and someday, who knows, it may be captured by alien life 1000,000's years later...

If you have not, please do check out Murmurs of Earth...You will certainly like it. <click on image>
Murmurs of Earth.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 30 Aug 2018 07:59

The crew mpdule will have portholes. They hsd eprked on the required special glass for this.

Katare
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 30 Aug 2018 08:21

The way I look at it is that We humans walked for couple of million years before we tamed the beasts to increase our speed and travel distance. We had to wait 5000 years to transition from a animal to a chemical combustion based transportation. In first case ( from walking to riding animals) our speed went up 5x and distance by 10x, from riding to flying in rockets increased our speed by 3000x and distances to as far as moon. How many centuries it’ll take for us to find a new technology paradigm that will increases our speeds (from current 10km/sec) by 100,000x ( beyond speed of light) that will enable us to travel out of our solar system to other stars in cosmos.

Until we find a new habitable planet with better living conditions than earth and have means of travel to get us there, in no more than a couple of decades, space travel would not graduate into commercial ventures or human settlements.

Disha might want a base on moon and mining of asteroids, i do too. But a small station just few hundred miles above earth has costed $160B to western governments. The budget that NASA presented to congress, more than a decade back, for a human trip to Mars was pegged at $400B.

A moon base would cost trillions of dollars. It cost $10,000 to send a killo of payload in space. Each day in space for each astronaut to stay alive costs upwards of a $1M/day.

The bored billionaires can afford to dream crazy and spend their excess money to explore their dreams and i hope and wish that one of them gets lucky in my lifetime. but for rest of us mango abduls the facts are the hard reality.

Katare
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 30 Aug 2018 08:32

Amber G. wrote:
Katare wrote:
How would you communicate with anyone living couple of hundred light years away from us?

Nearest star that has a planet which could be a candidate for life is 200 light years away. I.... .

To add - (Few comments only to make science clear or add value .. not arguing for/against interstellar in practical near future terms)
- My definition of "communicate" is not instantaneous or even two way communications..Even not that long - 50 years - ago my 'communications' with my father typically took few weeks by letter. It was years/decades before journeys like Maro Polo were able to call back home. Years or even 100's of year over radio telescope is okay in my book and worth exploring and we are doing that. Seriously we are actively looking for those signals from near by stars.

- No one really knows where (or even if) is the nearest planet with life outside our solar system. But serious people (even wiki : ) suspects there are more than previously thought.. even reports of rocky planet near our own Alpha century , and Proxima century..
Anyway articles like below may be fun to read.
NY Times article: Far-Off Planets Like the Earth Dot the Galaxy

I may be a little sentimental here but graduate students like me, recorded greetings/namaste/ram-ram in \ many languages (including as many Indian languages our then tiny graduate student community in USA could manage), put them on a gramophone record and sent that record in interstellar space on voyage many decades ago. Voyager is still sending us data and someday, who knows, it may be captured by alien life 1000,000's years later...

If you have not, please do check out Murmurs of Earth...You will certainly like it. <click on image>
Murmurs of Earth.


Did you work with the legendary Carl Sagan on the voyager greetings from earth golden disk???

If yes you sir are a one lucky son of a gun!!!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 30 Aug 2018 09:42

Taking a woman astronaut is not the same as SC/ST or other such reservations. A woman astronaut is good optics, showing the world how both the sexes are given equal opportunity in India. It gives a boost to girl education in india(remember how the advertisements were after kalpana chawla went to space?). Last but not the least it helps counter the rape narrative that our enemies propagate to insult india and undermine our achievements and progress. It's also a record of sorts for those interested in that sort of things.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Neshant » 30 Aug 2018 10:15

darshhan wrote:
Jits wrote:Why then stop at women only, why not members from SC/ST community, why not from minorities let's have them too. What about LGBT community. Please for once stop this social justice nonsense and give only merit a chance, we had enough of it.


Exactly. Where does this stop? Tommorrow even transgendered and handicapped people will have to be accomodated. there is no limit to political correctness.

The best part is that even after practicing such extreme form of political correctness, social justice types will not be satisfied.


Sorry but you take the issue and turn it into a strawman argument.
It does not work because this is not some tiny subset we are talking about.

This set is HALF of India's population.

That is, half of India's population cutting across all lines of social, economic, educational, caste, political, religious divisions.
Trying to poo-poo the idea by bringing in LGBT to sidetrack it does not work.

Nobody said (except you) that it should not be based on merit.

But since this is a showcase project in part and NOT just a scientific project, efforts should be made to include at least one female.
It is meant to inspire a generation and it will do great things to inspire HALF the population to dream big.

It will be a momentous day when this happens.
The event will be taught in class and printed in history books that millions of children in the country will learn as part of their syllabus for decades.
Its important to deliver the right impact.
This mission is not for us, it is for THEM.

Personally i don't give a sh7t about what the international media will say about the event. Certain countries will be especially annoyed at India's achievement. But the important thing is that the upcoming and next generation in India SEE their kind achieving great things.

____________________


Ok, everyone has had their say, got their word in - now STOP. No more of this sidetrack on who is a better choice for the mission. Leave that to GOI and ISRO.


Karan M

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 30 Aug 2018 10:37

Katare wrote:Disha might want a base on moon and mining of asteroids, i do too. But a small station just few hundred miles above earth has costed $160B to western governments. The budget that NASA presented to congress, more than a decade back, for a human trip to Mars was pegged at $400B.


Next time, please address my posts so that at the very least I get a chance to respond. In this case I caught it by chance.

By your logic, we should stop all space exploration since it is very very costly. Did you see the cost of launching GSLV Mk III. Sheesh - it is $60 million (or @400 crores in INR). Heck the first launch was a dummy and it is still in development phase.

For a poor nation like India, with several million living in poverty, we should not spend @400 crores per launch at all. We should follow people like Jean Druze and put a stop to all space exploration.

However there is one issue here which I am not able to comprehend on how to solve. Here is the issue: For every Rs. 1/- spent by ISRO, it earns back Rs. 2/- and that is 100% profit. And it also saves lives! So both my heart and mind tells me to increase investment in this area!

Some four years back, a cyclone pummeled AP and it caused widespread destruction. Very widespread, to the tune of $3 Billion ( or some 21,000 crore - mind bogling number). There was a time when one would wait to hear the death toll with severe trepidation once the cyclone was overhead. However this time it was named 'Hudhud'. The number of fatalities - 124. Heck more people die drinking alcohol from government run shops every year.

I called it 'Hudhud' moment of India. Where India discovers that it can name the cyclone, track it on a daily basis, give reports on it and save thousands of lives. This was possible only due to India's capacity in space (and all the ancillary sciences and technologies that go behind it).

So are you going to say that all the investment leading up to the 'Hudhud' moment is a wasteful expenditure? Are you going to put your neck out and say that it is better to let thousands of people (@9000 in Odisha Cyclone) perish rather than spending thousands of crores on space? (added later: Katare'ji, with due respect I know neither you say that and neither you mean that. I am just puzzled on the kolaveri coming from you!)

There is a difference between dreaming of crossing galaxies and there is a difference in setting up a moon base or sending a human to space. One is a thought exercise where bright people can ruminate and come up with new theories and new ideas and new way of looking things. Other was similarly a theory some 100 years back and now is very much in the realm of possibility. Both need to be pursued. Both do not require big budgets.

Katare wrote:But a small station just few hundred miles above earth has costed $160B to western governments... A moon base would cost trillions of dollars. It cost $10,000 to send a killo of payload in space. Each day in space for each astronaut to stay alive costs upwards of a $1M/day.


That is the reason why it is better to remember Vikram Sarabhai's words, particularly when ISRO plans to land a 'Vikram' on moon:

“We do not have the fantasy of competing with the economically advanced nations in the exploration of the moon or other planets or manned space-flight, but we are convinced that if we are to play a meaningful role nationally, and in the community of nations, we must be second to none in the application of advanced technologies to the real problems of man and society.”


A moon base will be in service to the application of advanced technologies to the real problems of man and society. Sending an astronaut in space is a step towards moon base.

Of course it is not wrong to question where the money is spent. If the money is spent on hare-brained ideas to develop technologies with questionable returns like GalaxyQuest when we do not even have a human in space, leave alone moon then yes it needs to be questioned.

However if ISRO comes out with a plan that by 2030, India will have a permanent moon base and asks for a 40,000 crore budget (additional 4000 crore/year)., then yes - we as a nation should enthusiastically support it. For the next goal should be mining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_Anteros or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/162173_Ryugu by 2040. Spending some $100 Billion to mine $200 Billion or $2 Trillion asteroid is well worth it. It will also make Earth safer. Testing technologies to mine an asteroid can be done on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/65803_Didymos

So a moon base is a must. If it can be done by 2030 with asteroid mining by 2040, India would have leapfroged from a low-income nation state to a very high income nation state. All in the real service of man and society.
Last edited by disha on 30 Aug 2018 11:23, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 30 Aug 2018 10:41

darshhan wrote:Exactly. Where does this stop? Tommorrow even transgendered and handicapped people will have to be accomodated. there is no limit to political correctness.


Does not matter as long as the person is capable and an Indian. Note that all Gaganaviharins will be putting their lives in the line for the nation, capable or not.

If you want to really feel the courage, I suggest that you sit on a steel chair and light the green diwali cracker called 'atom bomb' under it and let it go off :-) I am sure if I do that, all of my courage will be seen :( :-o :((

Anybody sitting in the crew vehicle is literally sitting on hundreds of tons of explosives.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 30 Aug 2018 11:05

Katare wrote:Until we find a new habitable planet with better living conditions than earth and have means of travel to get us there, in no more than a couple of decades, space travel would not graduate into commercial ventures or human settlements.


The way I look at it - We are already doing inter-galactic travel. Instead of traveling to the distant galaxies, the light from distant galaxies is already traveling to us. We already have found planets in habitable zone. It is a matter of time to confirm water on a planet and the moment it is confirmed, that planet is habitable. In fact it might even have life on it. And if the planet is 4 Billion years old and has been habitable for at least half a billion years, then chances of intelligent life is also very high.

We might have one right in our backyard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri_b
Last edited by disha on 30 Aug 2018 11:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 30 Aug 2018 11:17

I agree with disha. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Moon base and asteroid mining are the next logical steps. Our space agencies atleast need to start thinking in that direction. What do you think Donald Trump's space force will do? The man might be a buffoon but he is right in wanting that his country should grab the first mover advantage in space. Must we always wait for US/ Russia/China to prove feasibility before attempting something? It's time India starts being the first too and I am sure our scientists at ISRO are capable enough to identify which projects are economically viable in the long run.
Last edited by Trikaal on 30 Aug 2018 16:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby souravB » 30 Aug 2018 14:48

in my view(might be a bit controversial in the later parts), this era of explosive growth in technology actually started during the time of the space race. Computers, digital electronics, communications everything was revolutionized and put on a booster(pun unintended). This generational shift in technology came when the race to put a man in space began. So yes India should be a part of the new space race even if we are running alone.
For the cost of research part, we should put at least half as much money into ISRO & ancillary research organisations as we put into defense because technology is the new wealth or weapon as you want to see it.
for motivation <insert any 'ghaas kha lenge' type quote>

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby chola » 30 Aug 2018 16:15

The money will come as our economy grows. But you need to seed things now in order to keep from falling to far behind the leaders.

Just like air has been exploited so will space. It will happen. Today we have a handful of western firms controlling air travel through Boeing/Airbus for franes and GE/RR/SAFRAN for powerplants.

If we are not in this in some form now then in 50 or 100 years we will again depend on a handful of phoreners when mankind moves into space commercially (even when our economy is massively large because this kind of expertise are built over decades.)

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Dileep » 30 Aug 2018 17:52

Gaganchaari (Gaganachaari) is the name in malluspeak (which is actually samskrtham) for people who go to outer space. We malloos have a tendency to create samskrtham terms and pretend that it is Malayalam. My schooling was entirely in those.
vaahanam: Vehicle,ie Rocket
upagraham : Satellite
pETakam: probe/payload
vikshEpaNam : launch
bhramaNa pathham : orbit

There is no end... So, I vote for Gaganchaari!!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 30 Aug 2018 20:04

Disha,

I didn't reply to your last post (in previous page) because it was not relevant or related to my argument. In almost last two decade, I have not seen anyone at BRF ever arguing against investment in the space field and neither am I. So most of your arguments are accurate and not contested by me or anyone else. You are mixing up the issues, investment in space with investment in human travel to space.

The question here is of the priorities, resource allocation, need of the nation and return on investment on capital that we are investing in our endeavor to exploit and learn about space.

I think Rs 10k corer would have been better spent on developing a 10 ton GSLV mk X or to develop a reusable launch vehicle to cut the cost of launch by a factor of 4. This is immediate and critical need in my opinion because if/when Space X (and others) gets its reusable launch vehicles optimized and brings down their cost to 1/10th of current launch cost, as is being claimed, ISRO's launch vehicle's would have hard time competing. Now I am just an mango Abdul enthusiast so I might be totally wrong so take it for it's worth.

Again before you or anyone else miss my point and go on a tangent, let me clarify that I am also not arguing that Human travel to space would not yield a lot of advantages and learning for the nation. Neither am I saying it is a waste of money, I consider it a good investment. I just believe that it (human space flight) is not the best place to invest in space field for India.
Last edited by Katare on 30 Aug 2018 21:16, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 30 Aug 2018 20:07

disha wrote:
Katare wrote:Until we find a new habitable planet with better living conditions than earth and have means of travel to get us there, in no more than a couple of decades, space travel would not graduate into commercial ventures or human settlements.


The way I look at it - We are already doing inter-galactic travel. Instead of traveling to the distant galaxies, the light from distant galaxies is already traveling to us. We already have found planets in habitable zone. It is a matter of time to confirm water on a planet and the moment it is confirmed, that planet is habitable. In fact it might even have life on it. And if the planet is 4 Billion years old and has been habitable for at least half a billion years, then chances of intelligent life is also very high.

We might have one right in our backyard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri_b


You are a believer, I'll give you that. Wish I could share in the enthusiasm, positivity and hope that you carry.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby rsingh » 30 Aug 2018 20:09

wrong thread
Last edited by rsingh on 30 Aug 2018 20:21, edited 1 time in total.

Katare
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 30 Aug 2018 20:20

chola wrote:The money will come as our economy grows. But you need to seed things now in order to keep from falling to far behind the leaders.

Just like air has been exploited so will space. It will happen. Today we have a handful of western firms controlling air travel through Boeing/Airbus for franes and GE/RR/SAFRAN for powerplants.

If we are not in this in some form now then in 50 or 100 years we will again depend on a handful of phoreners when mankind moves into space commercially (even when our economy is massively large because this kind of expertise are built over decades.)


Again this is not what I am arguing against infect I am in violent agreement with you on it. Until this program was announced that is exactly what ISRO was doing, putting seeds and creating technologies and infrastructure in systematic way. What this program, with it's artificial political deadline, would do is that it'll suck-up most of the ISRO's technical and management bandwidth in meeting this deadline. It's too early for our space program to send Indians to space to have a claim to glory of being the 4th nation to do so. Once we put the man on space this program would become another cost center further sucking up funds from most critical space programs.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 30 Aug 2018 20:21

Can we please drop all discussion on the Hindu/minority/cast etc. Please don't respond, let it go it's not relevant here

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Kakarat » 30 Aug 2018 20:45

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1035170964860940288

#ISROMissions
Hot test of #GSLV-F11 Cryogenic engine completed successfully on Aug 27 at ISRO Propulsion Complex, Mahendragiri, TN. The test was carried out for 200 secs. All propulsion parameters found satisfactory.


Image

Successful Acceptance Hot Testing of Cryogenic Engine

The flight acceptance hot test of Cryogenic engine for Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV-F11) flight was successfully conducted on 27th August 2018 at the ISRO Propulsion Complex at Mahendragiri in Tamil Nadu. The hot test was carried out for a planned duration of 200 seconds during which the engine was operated in the nominal and 13% uprated thrust regimes. All the propulsion parameters during the test were found satisfactory and closely matched with predictions. For the first time, indigenously developed copper alloy is used in this engine.

The cryogenic engine will be further integrated with the propellant tanks, stage structures and associated fluid lines to realise the fully integrated flight cryogenic stage.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby A Nandy » 30 Aug 2018 22:37

Regarding human spaceflight not being the field in which India should spend its money, I think by doing so we would again be repeating a mistake we have made many times in our history, almost always resulting in the same deadly conclusion for our people.

Currently NASA is developing the SLS system that will lift nearly 100 tons to LEO. SpaceX is already working on the BFR rocket to reach Mars. It will lift a 100 tons not to LEO but to Mars! And with the kind of money they have backing them, they will probably do it. Even of they achieve 50% of that its a big freaking deal.

With the ability to move that kind of mass to outer space and reach nearby planets within a decade, of course they are going to go for the resources in the asteroids. Its a chain reaction that will spur ever faster development in bio tech for human survival in space and the surface of planets. Lot of new science to be learnt that can be used for improving life on earth, medicines, who knows what else. That kind of capability is strategic and has implications for nations which are still unable to get off this planet.

And once they are able to shift that many people and build potentially large structures in space, are we still naive enough to think that they will just share that with us? We are talking in time scales of 10 or 20 years now.

I mean the outer space treaty preventing weaponization of space, is that going to protect us or something. Its just there to buy the west sometime and will be thrown out of the window the minute asymmetric capabilities have been acquired for which the ground work is already being done now. After that who is going to stop them? I think the ability to reach space and survive there is as important as nuclear technology. It enforces co-operation.

We dont see the pacific fleet lurking in the Indian Ocean looking to "teach the Indians a lesson" nowadays do we? Did Trump go after North Korea?

We must have the scientific and technological capability to ensure that the scientific and technological improvements of space travel are shared peacefully with all nations. Because it certainly isnt happening by default.

To have that capability we must keep pace with the rest of the world instead of staying warm at home. Will we learn nothing from history ever?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Jits » 30 Aug 2018 23:39

Irrelevant post edited.

Stick to the topic

Karan M
Last edited by Jits on 31 Aug 2018 00:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Jits » 30 Aug 2018 23:50

Irrelevant post edited.

Stick to the topic

Karan M
Last edited by Jits on 31 Aug 2018 00:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Jits » 31 Aug 2018 00:02

Irrelevant post edited.

Stick to the topic

Karan M

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 31 Aug 2018 01:42

A Nandy wrote:Regarding human spaceflight not being the field in which India should spend its money, I think by doing so we would again be repeating a mistake we have made many times in our history, almost always resulting in the same deadly conclusion for our people.

Currently NASA is developing the SLS system that will lift nearly 100 tons to LEO. SpaceX is already working on the BFR rocket to reach Mars. It will lift a 100 tons not to LEO but to Mars! And with the kind of money they have backing them, they will probably do it. Even of they achieve 50% of that its a big freaking deal.

With the ability to move that kind of mass to outer space and reach nearby planets within a decade, of course they are going to go for the resources in the asteroids. Its a chain reaction that will spur ever faster development in bio tech for human survival in space and the surface of planets. Lot of new science to be learnt that can be used for improving life on earth, medicines, who knows what else. That kind of capability is strategic and has implications for nations which are still unable to get off this planet.

And once they are able to shift that many people and build potentially large structures in space, are we still naive enough to think that they will just share that with us? We are talking in time scales of 10 or 20 years now.

I mean the outer space treaty preventing weaponization of space, is that going to protect us or something. Its just there to buy the west sometime and will be thrown out of the window the minute asymmetric capabilities have been acquired for which the ground work is already being done now. After that who is going to stop them? I think the ability to reach space and survive there is as important as nuclear technology. It enforces co-operation.

We dont see the pacific fleet lurking in the Indian Ocean looking to "teach the Indians a lesson" nowadays do we? Did Trump go after North Korea?

We must have the scientific and technological capability to ensure that the scientific and technological improvements of space travel are shared peacefully with all nations. Because it certainly isnt happening by default.

To have that capability we must keep pace with the rest of the world instead of staying warm at home. Will we learn nothing from history ever?


That is the right place for investing money, better science and better returns on capital.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 31 Aug 2018 03:08

Irrelevant post and counter reply edited.

Stick to the topic

Karan M

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 31 Aug 2018 04:08

Katare wrote:Did you work with the legendary Carl Sagan on the voyager greetings from earth golden disk???
<snip>

I did not "work " (not formally) with Carl Sagan but I have attended his lectures and have talked to and interacted with him *many* times - even before he was so famous. And I knew a few students who actually recorded the greetings/ Sagan's guru (which he admired a lot) was Chandra and Cornell even in 60's has Indian physics students and community from India so it was no big deal. He was an excellent teacher and presenter and he loved (even later in his life when he was famous) to give popular talks. (Indian scientific community was very close knit group then and everyone knew everyone). Lot of his work on Seti - if you read any of his papers involved Indian scientists like Khare etc. I did not go to school in Cornell but I visited it quite often. My niece went to Cornell.

Anecdote about his classic record - there was LOT of red-tape from Indian consulate (and UN) . BIG change from modi era - at that time the consulate people were full of themselves -- did not want to help. So one Indian professor called up few people (who called their friends) and whole thing was recorded over a weekend -- and students had fun (as they had a speaker in other room where everyone can listen while recording was going on.

Similarly for Indian classical music (I think they had vocal of Kesar Bai) they had lot of trouble - no library can find record. (Of course there was no internet and we students just had copied tapes. Finally one suggested grocery Indian store in New York's - (Those days the whole east cost in USA had only a few Indian stores). The store happened to have LP record and they bought all the copies of the record.

The "record" with photos and music and sound is one of my favorite.

Jits
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Jits » 31 Aug 2018 05:03

Irrelevant post and counter reply edited.

Stick to the topic

Karan M

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Kashi » 31 Aug 2018 05:47

Jits wrote:They will always look after various reports and will always make their own conclusions based on then prevailing international geo-politics.


I would say they have already made their conclusions and will look for reports or incidents to reinforce those claims. Everything else would be either discredited or ignored.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Trikaal » 31 Aug 2018 08:23

Irrelevant post and counter reply edited.

Stick to the topic

Karan M

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Neshant » 31 Aug 2018 08:28

Irrelevant post and counter reply edited.

Stick to the topic

Karan M

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Neshant » 31 Aug 2018 08:35

Amber G. wrote:So one Indian professor called up few people (who called their friends) and whole thing was recorded over a weekend -- and students had fun (as they had a speaker in other room where everyone can listen while recording was going on.

Similarly for Indian classical music (I think they had vocal of Kesar Bai) they had lot of trouble - no library can find record. (Of course there was no internet and we students just had copied tapes. Finally one suggested grocery Indian store in New York's - (Those days the whole east cost in USA had only a few Indian stores). The store happened to have LP record and they bought all the copies of the record.

The "record" with photos and music and sound is one of my favorite.




prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 31 Aug 2018 10:06

No dicussions on caste or creed here. Keep politics out of this discussion.


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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Jits » 31 Aug 2018 18:28

Keep irrelevant talk to a minimum. Ignoring multiple moderator requests and then claiming one last post etc is not advisable.


Post edited by Karan M.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 31 Aug 2018 22:58

That's enough. Any more caste/creed talk will incur the wrath of the mods.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Katare » 31 Aug 2018 23:24

Amber, great experience. I have have heard/read that the whole disk was put togather by Carl Sagan in 6 weeks.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SBajwa » 01 Sep 2018 00:57

disha wrote:
JayS wrote:NOTE: By no means I want to start a naming contest here. :wink:


"Gagan" can mean space as well. The other option is 'Antariksh'. So either you have GaganaViharin or AntarikshYatri. When an Indian gets to go to Alpha Centauri, then we can talk about AntarikshYatri. Till then it is GaganaViharin. :D


Exactly! BTW what root is naut? astro-naut cosmo-naut what are chinese GaganaViharin called?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby sanjaykumar » 01 Sep 2018 02:14

Probably cognate the Sanskrit nav.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 01 Sep 2018 03:42

Exactly! BTW what root is naut? astro-naut cosmo-naut what are chinese GaganaViharin called?[

In USA common term used (even found in modern dictionaries - I have even seen in mainstream dictionaries etc)

Taikonauts or (yuhangyuans is much less common)
Gaganauts (since 2008 or so) (Vyomnaut is much less in use at present) (Note 1)


Astronauts and Cosmonauts are obviously much more common.

Note 1: (From one reference in American dictionary/reference notes I seem to remember seeing was something like .. - .. word for an Indian spacefarer that had been used is gaganaut, as gagan is also Sanskrit for sky. Indian "vyomanauts" uses may rise in future)

Of course, word uses change with time, and is not always perfect, and there is a feedback loop on what becomes standard.


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