Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Ashokk » 28 Dec 2018 16:55

Gaganyaan: Centre approves Rs 10,000 crore for human space mission
BENGALURU: The Union Cabinet on Friday approved Rs 10,000 crore budget for the proposed human spaceflight mission (Gaganyaan), which envisages to send astronauts to space by 2022.

"The Union Cabinet has approved the Gaganyaan project under which a three-member crew will be sent to space for at least seven days," Union minister Ravi Shankar Prasad announced at a press conference today.

The ambitious project was first announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on August 15, as part of his independence speech from the ramparts of Red Fort and the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) has since upped the ante for its implementation.

As TOI had reported earlier, Isro has kick-started the process of selecting experiments that could be performed in the Low Earth Orbit (LEO), where it will send Indian astronauts (Gaganauts).

From testing medical equipment in space to micro-biological experiments such as biological air filters and biosensors, and from life support and biomedical waste management to monitoring toxic gases, Isro is looking at a pool of at least 10 experiments.

“While we have indicated 10 areas that we are interested in, we won’t be restricting experiments to just these areas. Also, we will be getting specific experiments in these areas from various institutions across India,” one Isro official said.

Isro has also officially announced opportunities for LEO-based microgravity experiments.

“As Isro is planning a human spaceflight mission, it seeks input from national scientific community to conduct experiments in microgravity platform in LEO,” Isro has said.

Isro is working on multiple technologies for the project and its chairman K Sivan has been confident of sending humans to space by 2022.

As part of the plan, Isro plans two unmanned flights testing all the systems in 2020 and 2021, Sivan has said, even as work on making the system human rated in ongoing.

The process for astronaut selection is yet to kick off. And, for this Isro will work with the Indian Air Force (IAF), whose agency—Institute of Aerospace Medicine—will be responsible for selecting the astronauts.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rakesh » 29 Dec 2018 05:58

Please click on either link below to see picture of the test vehicle.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1078197872305176578 ---> So ISRO has begun work on vertical take-off, vertical landing (VTVL) rockets. A test-vehicle called ADMIRE is being developed for technology-demonstration.

ISRO focuses on vertical landing capability
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

India is aspiring to move a notch up in the reusable launch system development programme with rockets that will have Vertical take-off and Vertical Landing (VTVL) capabilities. Now on ISRO's priority list are launch vehicles that will have similar capabilities like the one developed by SpaceX’s Falcon 9 and Grasshopper rockets. Distinguished ISRO professor and founding director of Indian Institute of Space Science & Technology (IIST) Dr B N Suresh gave a peek into the ADMIRE test vehicle, that will have supersonic retro propulsion, special retractable landing legs which will in fact act as steerable grid fins, to guide the rocket back to its launch pad. The launch vehicle emulates technology that is embedded in US-based SpaceX’s Grasshopper and Falcon 9 rockets. Suresh explained how the new ADMIRE test vehicle will demonstrate Isro’s VTVL and recovery of launch vehicle capabilities and is carefully timed. The rocket will be guided by integrated navigation system that will have a laser altimeter and a NavIC receiver.

“A test and landing site is being developed by Isro for this purpose,” Suresh revealed at the three-day anniversary general meeting of Indian National Science Academy at its first symposium at Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) on Wednesday. Suresh was presenting Isro’s new technology development on behalf of Isro chairman Dr K Sivan who could not attend the session for an urgent cabinet meeting in New Delhi. Former Isro chairman Padma shri A S Kiran Kumar said how Astrosat India's first dedicated multi-wavelength space observatory’s performance in the far ultraviolet wavelengths has the world’s best space angular resolution of 2 arc seconds which is better than the next best which has 6 arc seconds.

On the human space flight programme, Kumar said, “Almost one year before the actual launch of human space flight mission, probable astronauts may be from the Indian Air Force, but it all depends on the selection process.” The human space flight mission, following PM Narendra Modi’s August 15 speech is timed for 2022, the 75th anniversary of Indian Independence. Another important milestone was presented by Dr A K Sood, president INSA and an authority on nano sciences at IISc Bangalore. He threw light on the latest landmarks achieved in artificial microscale heat engines. Sood discussed the first experiments to develop heat engines that could utilise energy from bacterial activities. He showed the experiments conducted to realise micrometre sized active Sterling heat engine.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby mody » 29 Dec 2018 14:46

Has the NaVic constellation been fully operationalized? 7 satellites are now in orbit and were reportedly functioning well.
But there has been further news on this. Chipsets to receive the signals from NaVic were to be developed and many were hoping for all smartphones being sold in India to come bundled with NaVic, instead of or along with GPS. Even cars that have navigation, can use the signals from NaVic instead or along with GPS.

However no news about the system.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 29 Dec 2018 19:54

Shrinivasan wrote:Kulasekaranpattinam also has an additional advantage for being pretty close to Mahendragiri and Thumba and Tiruvanathapuram.. my only worry is, it is in deep evangelicals country... they tried to derail Kudangulam... sterlite... whatit they do the same to ISRO.


What is the point in concentrating all your space assets in a specific region? Agree that is God's own country, but it is not sooo special that other regions and states have to be overlooked. In fact other regions may offer better "everything"! Honestly IMO, Kerala lost any chance to major *new* technical infrastructure the moment it mis-handled the ISRO spy case and caused a strategic setback of at least a decade to the entire nation.

For example space, entire Kerala can fit into the largest district of Gujarat. Sparsely populated. No land acquisition issues. If the solid booster decides to go bum on the launch pad itself, only few wild asses will be scared. A highly automated factory to churn out larger and larger solid boosters can be set up.

Gujarat state is heavily industrialized with excellent chemical infrastructure in Vadodra. Highly skilled workforce from IIT-M to IIM-A to IIT-D to BITS-Pilani is available and easily reachable. And ISRO's own SAC is in Ahmedabad which does the following:

The core competence of the Centre lies in evelopment of space borne and air borne instruments / payloads and their applications for national development and societal benefits. These applications are in diverse areas and primarily meet the communication, navigation and remote sensing needs of the country. Besides these, the Centre also contributed significantly in scientific and planetary missions of ISRO like Chandrayaan-1, Mars Orbiter Mission, etc. The communication transponders developed at this Centre for Indian National Satellite (INSAT) and Geo Synchronous Satellite (GSAT) series of satellites are used by government and private sector for VSAT, DTH, Internet, broadcasting, telephones etc.


And space launch as an industry will be highly welcome in N. India and will not be held hostage to BIF as you already have alluded.

Again apart from the qualitative aspects highlighted above, one major aspect being missed is - today it is proposed that SSLV launched by industry in polar orbits from a space port in Gujarat. In future, for all non-Geo Sync orbits the space port can evolve as India's own vanderburg equivalent on west coast.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 29 Dec 2018 20:35

There are multiple reasons for using Gujarat as a potential launch site for the SSLV . Other wise we will prefer to have other sites near the apex of our peninsula

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Shrinivasan » 30 Dec 2018 00:43

Disha, I am not against a satellite launch center in Gujarat.. I actually welcomed it... I was only describing the perils of doing it in Deep South TN in spite of all its benefits like being close to Thumba and Mahendragiri.

K’Patnam can be SHAR 2.0... Kutch location can be for non-Geo sync orbits...

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Vips » 30 Dec 2018 03:37

Isro to build 3 sets of rockets, crew modules for Gaganyaan.

The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), which got a shot in its arm with the approval of Rs 10,000-crore budget for the human space mission on Friday, has a long way before executing the mission, with crucial human-rating of systems, including the rocket, yet to be achieved.

Human-rating says the system is capable of safely transporting humans. It also means it has adequate technology that efficiently protects crew in the event of any failure.

Chairman Sivan K told TOI: “There is a lot of work ahead of us. We could not have gone ahead without money being approved as the mission needs a lot of new testing and development that is cost sensitive.

At least 50% of the Rs 10,000 crore will go into human-rating, while a new launch pad that can accommodate entry of astronauts will cost a fair bit.

“We have to build three sets of rockets, crew and service module. Although I don’t have the exact break-up of figures at this moment, building three GSLV-MK III launch vehicles and the other modules and conducting various human-rating tests will definitely use about 50% of the budget,” Sivan said.

Each set will be used for three missions — two unmanned missions planned for December 2020 and June-July 2021, and the actual mission by December 2021 or early 2022.

S Somnath, director, Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), had in a recent presentation elaborated on some pending work. “We’ve had several meetings on the roadmap for human-rating the launch vehicle. Since GSLV has been in active development since 2002-04, we had the vision that this could one day be used for the human mission,” he said.

Explaining that all systems for a space launch are designed with redundancies, he said a human-rated mission will need a much higher degree of redundancy. “The reliability targeted for human-rated launch vehicle is 0.99, which means statistically only 1 out of 100 can be unreliable. For the crew escape system, which is very crucial, we’re targeting greater than 0.998, that’s almost 100 reliability,” Somnath told TOI.

The escape system will boast of a recently included geometry, while work on parachute enlargement — as models tested so far have been scaled down version and the actual system will be bigger—and new architecture will be ready soon. “Rockets are autonomous after launch so we cannot tolerate any failure,” Somnath said.

The crew escape system is very crucial, with key tests, including the pad abort test done on July 5 this year.

“Even if one system fails, we’ll bring the crew back. The most important thing is failure detection and onboard intelligence that tells the system to abort.

For this, new algorithms to go into the system will be ready soon. An indigenous computer and microprocessor will be used. Control systems, avionics and sensors are ready,” Somnath said.

Astronaut training
Sivan said astronaut selection and training, which will include establishment of new facilities, will also take up a considerable amount of the budget. “Some things need to be done, and this aspect of the project will use up about 10% of the budget,” Sivan said.

Isro is currently creating a framework for astronaut selection. The Institute of Aerospace Medicine has some systems in place for astronaut selection and training and India is looking at a pool of 30 astronauts from which the final crew will be selected.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 30 Dec 2018 10:04

disha wrote:What is the point in concentrating all your space assets in a specific region? Agree that is God's own country, but it is not sooo special that other regions and states have to be overlooked. In fact other regions may offer better "everything"! Honestly IMO, Kerala lost any chance to major *new* technical infrastructure the moment it mis-handled the ISRO spy case and caused a strategic setback of at least a decade to the entire nation.
...
And space launch as an industry will be highly welcome in N. ...
...
In future, for all non-Geo Sync orbits the space port can evolve as India's own vanderburg equivalent on west coast.

Seeing this and a few more messages, it seems to me that there is still some "confusion" about "advantages" of a spaceport on the "west". So allow me to put some comments here. (I will also post a separate message for short scientific reasoning about what is being said below).

Disclaimer: I am not an ISRO expert so may be wrong on some details and will really welcome if there are corrections/comments. I do know basic science (and have colleagues/former_students in ISRO) so conclusion I reach, I believe, are correct. But still if there are any corrections, please let me know.

***
First - I think, practically speaking, there are few (if any) places other than southern TN/Kerala places in India which will offer better "everything". Let me expand this further here.

- For all prograde (orbits which follow the same direction as earth's spin) orbits southern location near Kankumari will be better than Gujarat. The difference in fuel savings may be significant (say as much as 5%) for extreme case like geostationary orbit , or any low inclination orbit. For higher inclinations, the difference will be smaller and may be countered by other factors like locations/infrastructure etc.

- Only retrograde orbits (== moves in opposite of earth's spin) will benefit from locations like Gujrat. Again only retrograde orbits most people know are Sun Synchronous Orbits (Inclination 98 degrees or so). Again here, because these are so far away from East-West direction (of earth's spin) the difference is really very small ( about .1%-.5% in cost of fuel per my calculations).

- As said, virtually all low inclination orbits are prograde. Even moderately inclined orbits like space station (52 degrees) are prograde. (Only small inclination retrograde orbits I have heard of are/were sent by Israel)

***
Now for perspective, the main reason Vandenberg was chosen/needed was that from Florida only safe azimuth available was say 45 degrees to 105 degree. (You measure from North -- 90 degrees is exact East). For Florida, in north or NE you have US landmass, in SE or South there is Cuba etc. So one can barely launch a space shuttle to space station -- but anything higher inclination was a problem. (If you launched a rocket exactly East from Cape Canaveral, you will, or course attain an orbit with 28 degree inclination).

Vandenberg, other than it not being too far north, did have all other azimuths available. (IOW being on "west" was not relevant in this respect. There is no site in Eastern US where you have a clear safe space in north (or south) azimuths.

Same can't be said for Gujarat. In other words, if you look at the map, if one chooses, say Kulasekharapatnam, all azimuths needed are available.

***
So Gujarat may be good, for many other reasons, for polar / SSO / small load *very high* inclination orbits but for those only. I think for others the cost of extra fuel will make it less attractive.

Other thing to consider is the launch window -- that may provide some advantage/disadvantage for Gujarat. I am too lazy to calculate that. and I don't know how important it is in India's context. :)

(Just for fun, I tried to do back of the envelope calculation for GSLV type rocket - moving it to Gujrat will reduce the payload by about a 100 Kg).
Last edited by Amber G. on 30 Dec 2018 10:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Amber G. » 30 Dec 2018 10:49

A few technical comments regarding my old post : Please see https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=2311525#p2311525 for background.

Okay people may have done their own calculations, but here are a few comments which may be helpful:
- The advantages/disadvantages for the launch point closer/farther from center of earth:
(Poles are closer, Mountain tops are farther etc)
If one does the calculation, the difference in delta-V, as well as fuel difference comes out (for say 10 Km difference) < 0.1 % .. insignificant. (Even if one thinks about thinner air near mountains etc.. the difference will still be less than about 0.1%)

- The earth spins about 0.46 Km/sec at the equator. At latitude L, the speed will be 0.46*cos (L)
- This will help if you launch east-wards. (Disadvantage if launch westwards). If you launch in NE (or SE) direction, the advantage will be less. (Use trigonometry to calculate).
- At very high azimuth angle the advantage/disadvantage will be much less. (zero if you fire straight North or South)
- The reason, some times, you do not fire exactly East (most efficient orbit) is that you may like to achieve a certain orbit (of particular inclination.)
-If you launch from latitude L, exactly East, the inclination of the orbit will be L. You can NOT achieve an orbit less that L inclinition. (The orbit, will dip southwards, cross the equatorial plane, go L degree south and then return northwards etc).

To achieve a particular inclination one carefully chooses the azimuth angle. The calculation is little tricky because one has to deal with "rotating" coordinate system. Here is a good place for this calculations

- Only important "retrograde" orbits are SSO. (With inclination about 98 degrees).

For these, the advantage/disadvantage of latitude is quite small. (Less than 1%).

Hope this is useful.

****
The calculations above will give you delta-V. This is quite exact value. (% advantage = delta-V/V)

To calculate/estimate fuel cost - the minimum (ideal engines etc) value for this is difference in square of velocities. (Remember KE = (1/2) mv^2 so difference in energy (must be provided by fuel) = (1/2)m (difference between square of velocities). In practical terms, using calculus, percentage advantage/disadvantage = 2 (% relative delta-V).

In GSLV etc, one has to use rocket equations..so actual fuel cost difference is much more than the above theoretical value, but it gives a good estimation for the lower bound. If more accuracy is needed one can use ideal rocket equation:
delta-V = (velocity of exhaust gas) * ln (m_1/m_2)
where m1= initial mass (including fuel) and m_2 is final mass.

***
Just plug in the value if you really want to get more exact estimation. The calculation is easy.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Kakarat » 30 Dec 2018 19:29

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 8138288128

GSLV-F11 in flight seen from Pulicat bird sanctuary ~11km from the Launch Pad 1/3


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More to come shortly

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 30 Dec 2018 21:03

As per SSomnath's lecture the GSLV Mk2 L40 booster will be developed for flyback.


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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 30 Dec 2018 21:37

There are two competing groups/programs for reusability in ISRO - one ia the flyback landing and the other is vertical /bagged landing. There were two slides depicting it.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Kakarat » 30 Dec 2018 21:40

Part 3 With never seen before post core burnout pictures

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 2412234752

Image
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Bob V » 30 Dec 2018 22:28

Nice pics. Good job there.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Austin » 30 Dec 2018 22:30

WoW Great Pics Kakarat , Unseen angle so far

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 30 Dec 2018 23:01

Great pictures indeed

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 30 Dec 2018 23:35

Very nice pics! Good job.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Haridas » 31 Dec 2018 00:00

Very nice. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Rahul M » 31 Dec 2018 00:44

wow ! awesome shots man !

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby SriKumar » 31 Dec 2018 02:12

Great pix, Kakarat. Especially with the core turned off and the L40s alive.
EVen the first pic of the launch is good. One can see the shocks in the jet wake of L40 engines. The hazy look of the picture is due to moisture from the lake and/or sea I suppose.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby abhijitm » 31 Dec 2018 10:36

nice pics!! thanks

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby chola » 31 Dec 2018 10:44

Beautiful, Kakarat! You must have some high powered professional grade equipment for those pictures from 11kms away!

Thanks for sharing!!!

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Haridas » 31 Dec 2018 10:47

SriKumar wrote:The hazy look of the picture is due to moisture from the lake and/or sea I suppose.

IMHO limitation of telephoto and sensor noisefloor.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby AdityaM » 31 Dec 2018 11:51

What lens and camera was used?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Kakarat » 31 Dec 2018 12:14

Thank You all
After watching many launches from the terrace of my house it has been a long time wish to go to Pulicat to watch and photograph the launch, an earlier attempt failed due to the permit officer at TN AP border but It had finally come true this time. I always had a liking for the GSLV and happy that Its my first properly photographed launch. I will try to go to as many launch as possible time permitting

SriKumar wrote:Great pix, Kakarat. Especially with the core turned off and the L40s alive.
EVen the first pic of the launch is good. One can see the shocks in the jet wake of L40 engines. The hazy look of the picture is due to moisture from the lake and/or sea I suppose.


Almost 75% of the distance between me and the launch pad was Pulicat lake and i was photographing from the dry lakebed. This was my first time so i went with the crowd, post launch i scouted the area and found a better spot for launches from second launch pad.

chola wrote:Beautiful, Kakarat! You must have some high powered professional grade equipment for those pictures from 11kms away!

Thanks for sharing!!!


AdityaM wrote:What lens and camera was used?


I own nothing high powered, Its my Canon EOS 800D, a Tamaron 150-600 which i rented and my cheap reconnect tripod. mine is cropped censor camera so effectively the photos were taken in 1.6 X 600mm ie 960mm

This was my first time trying the settings i used for capturing the images and was lucky to keep track of the launch vehicle and get the post core burnout pictures but lost track seconds before stage separation, at 960mm a slight camera movement will produce a lot of deviation. I have never before done tracking shots after mounting the camera/lens on the tripod and this my first DSLR, so better luck next time

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby jaysimha » 31 Dec 2018 12:51

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Indranil » 31 Dec 2018 16:44

Kakarat sahab, wonderful clicks.

I agree with you (and Disha), GSLV Mk2 is the most goodlooking of ISRO launchers.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 01 Jan 2019 00:05

S Somnaths presentation said that the L40 will be the base for the ADMIRE project in one of his presentations. If L40 is the ist stage wonder what could be config and payload mass of such a tech demonstrator.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 01 Jan 2019 00:57

Apologies for reposting this post with amazing pictures.

I am starting a new thread "Indian Space Program : Media (Images/Videos/Presentations)". It will be great to have a repository of stock of images of Indian Space Program.

Kakarat'ji, can you please add this (and your other images) to Adobe Stock? Media worldwide do search on Adobe Stock and there are no photos available on it. The post core burnout pictures are priceless.

Kakarat wrote:Part 3 With never seen before post core burnout pictures

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 2412234752

Image
Image

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby disha » 01 Jan 2019 01:07

prasannasimha wrote:S Somnaths presentation said that the L40 will be the base for the ADMIRE project in one of his presentations.


Prasannasimha'ji, any link to Sri Somnath's presentation?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby chola » 01 Jan 2019 01:21

Kakarat wrote:After watching many launches from the terrace of my house it has been a long time wish to go to Pulicat to watch and photograph the launch


Oh how I envy you, Saar! :D

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 01 Jan 2019 09:55

disha wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:S Somnaths presentation said that the L40 will be the base for the ADMIRE project in one of his presentations.


Prasannasimha'ji, any link to Sri Somnath's presentation?

https://youtu.be/iHgn5m139uA

There is a pic there of the L40 and solid rocket pic making flyback anx another with the 4 L40's seperating and flying back

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Singha » 01 Jan 2019 12:55

I am bit out of touch, but is the plan to put the pieces for human space flights in place in first half of next decade and then actual humans 2025-2030?

I was remembering reading james mitcheners "Space" novel in middle school and there is a lot of stuff going on, which we have never dabbled in

- astronaut selection and training - this need vast specialized place though we can borrow some from IAF instt of medicine and leasing time in space city near moscow albeit again the need to learn russian and do things their way
- building up our own space city training complex
- human rated orbiter atleast Soyuz module sized (3 man)
- ability to test this orbiter in unmanned mode
- ditching in the sea via parachute since we lack kazakhstan or tibet type safe deserts
- crew escape puller rocket system
- perhaps need to test with some live dogs and pigs first all the way to reentry and safe recovery

all we have right now are the large rockets.

even if we are late by 5 years its better to develop our own system and make it work than reach for the easy sugar of reusing russian hardware. the US has finally weaned itself off that - the dragon capsule from 2012

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Ashokk » 01 Jan 2019 14:22

Chandrayaan-2 not to blast off on Jan 3, Isro yet to fix launch date
BENGALURU: The Indian Space Research Organization (Isro) confirmed — as Chinese space probe Chang’e 4 on Sunday moved into position to land on the far, unexplored side of the Moon — that it would not launch its second lunar mission, Chandrayaan-2, on January 3 as announced earlier.

The space agency, which is scrambling to launch the mission in the first available window in 2019, does not have a launch date as yet.

Isro chairman Sivan K told TOI that the agency was busy with multiple launches in the second half of 2018 and this affected work on the moon mission. “At this moment I cannot comment on the date,” he said. “We will be able to decide on that in about 10 to 12 days.”

Both Chang’e 4 and Chandrayaan-2 will aim to achieve “firsts” on the lunar soil. While the Chinese probe will be the first to land on the far or ‘dark’ side of the Moon, the hemisphere that always faces away from Earth, the lander from Chandrayaan-2 will touch down in an unexplored area near the lunar South Pole.

Xinhua news agency reported that Chang’e 4 had entered a planned orbit on Sunday to prepare for the first-ever soft landing on the far side of the moon, but did not specify when the landing would take place.

Isro is preparing to launch Chandrayaan-2, which missed two planned launch windows in 2017 and 2018, in a window from the first week of January to February 16.

“Unlike a mission to Mars, we will not have to wait for two years to launch in case the window passes. But we are confident of launching it in the first window. Work is progressing well,” Sivan said.

The mission, unlike Chandrayaan-1, involves a soft landing on the Moon and the unloading of a rover to study and take measurements from lunar surface. The orbiter will remain in a trajectory around the Moon. Initially, the project was to be a joint mission with Russian, whose space agency Roscosmos was to supply the lander. Isro decided to go solo when the deal fell through.

After years of design and development, the entire project was reconfigured, which has prompted several changes to multiple systems.

As per the first plan, the lander was to gradually descend from a height of 100km to 18km from the Moon’s surface. From there, the orientation would change, sending the lander in a slightly horizontal direction for about 8.5km, when mission control will make further changes in orientation and velocity for a soft landing.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby hnair » 01 Jan 2019 16:07

Most of them are there, since India and ISRO went about this in a phased fashion

Singha wrote:- astronaut selection and training - this need vast specialized place though we can borrow some from IAF instt of medicine and leasing time in space city near moscow albeit again the need to learn russian and do things their way [easy to ramp up at Aviation medicine institute - high-g simulators, Vomit Comet flights and underwater training tanks etc if EVA are needed are all not so heavy lifting, technically. Or can be leased)
- building up our own space city training complex {Not needed. Only Soviets had it. Khan uses multiple facilities, mostly USAF run simulators. We too should follow that flexible model]
- human rated orbiter atleast Soyuz module sized (3 man) [last week, budget allocated for two unmanned tests for 7-day missions culminating in third manned one]
- ability to test this orbiter in unmanned mode [as mentioned above, two is approved]
- ditching in the sea via parachute since we lack kazakhstan or tibet type safe deserts [sea splashes are far more safer than deserts]
- crew escape puller rocket system [already tested a few times, once in final configuration, but scaled down, IIRC ]
- perhaps need to test with some live dogs and pigs first all the way to reentry and safe recovery [why? There are no surprises unknown to mankind or ISRO on how animal or human tissue matter behaves in space. Again, russians did it because they were the very first humans to attempt space flight. Khan went straight with humans from suborbital then orbital with mercury-redstone and mercury-atlas. ]




all we have right now are the large rockets.

These rockets need to have more safety features, made specifically for man, including shutdowns, safe booster separations etc

Other than the orbiters, the most important big-ticket missing item is the ground facility for launch. IIRC, there were some figures of 2000 cr being mentioned in Dr Sivan's interview, for the third launch tower, complete with crew escape systems, evacuation, support etc. Will need about 24 to 36 months to complete and train teams with

This article posted by Vips have details:
Vips wrote:Isro to build 3 sets of rockets, crew modules for Gaganyaan.

The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), which got a shot in its arm with the approval of Rs 10,000-crore budget for the human space mission on Friday, has a long way before executing the mission, with crucial human-rating of systems, including the rocket, yet to be achieved.

Human-rating says the system is capable of safely transporting humans. It also means it has adequate technology that efficiently protects crew in the event of any failure.

Chairman Sivan K told TOI: “There is a lot of work ahead of us. We could not have gone ahead without money being approved as the mission needs a lot of new testing and development that is cost sensitive.

At least 50% of the Rs 10,000 crore will go into human-rating, while [b]a new launch pad that can accommodate entry of astronauts will cost a fair bit.[/b]

“We have to build three sets of rockets, crew and service module. Although I don’t have the exact break-up of figures at this moment, building three GSLV-MK III launch vehicles and the other modules and conducting various human-rating tests will definitely use about 50% of the budget,” Sivan said.

Each set will be used for three missions — two unmanned missions planned for December 2020 and June-July 2021, and the actual mission by December 2021 or early 2022.

S Somnath, director, Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), had in a recent presentation elaborated on some pending work. “We’ve had several meetings on the roadmap for human-rating the launch vehicle. Since GSLV has been in active development since 2002-04, we had the vision that this could one day be used for the human mission,” he said.

Explaining that all systems for a space launch are designed with redundancies, he said a human-rated mission will need a much higher degree of redundancy. “The reliability targeted for human-rated launch vehicle is 0.99, which means statistically only 1 out of 100 can be unreliable. For the crew escape system, which is very crucial, we’re targeting greater than 0.998, that’s almost 100 reliability :shock: ,” Somnath told TOI.

The escape system will boast of a recently included geometry, while work on parachute enlargement — as models tested so far have been scaled down version and the actual system will be bigger—and new architecture will be ready soon. “Rockets are autonomous after launch so we cannot tolerate any failure,” Somnath said.

The crew escape system is very crucial, with key tests, including the pad abort test done on July 5 this year.

“Even if one system fails, we’ll bring the crew back. The most important thing is failure detection and onboard intelligence that tells the system to abort.

For this, new algorithms to go into the system will be ready soon. An indigenous computer and microprocessor will be used. Control systems, avionics and sensors are ready,” Somnath said.

Astronaut training
Sivan said astronaut selection and training, which will include establishment of new facilities, will also take up a considerable amount of the budget. “Some things need to be done, and this aspect of the project will use up about 10% of the budget,” Sivan said.

Isro is currently creating a framework for astronaut selection. The Institute of Aerospace Medicine has some systems in place for astronaut selection and training and India is looking at a pool of 30 astronauts from which the final crew will be selected.



Singha wrote:even if we are late by 5 years its better to develop our own system and make it work than reach for the easy sugar of reusing russian hardware. the US has finally weaned itself off that - the dragon capsule from 2012


Based on early renderings that were floating about, we are following the Arihant route - Russian/ESA design concepts (from the cancelled CSTS and the ongoing Federation or PPTS concept) where it makes sense, but a uniquely Indian design.

Need to wait and seem, what is the final concept looks like. These are all years old graphics floating about

ISRO:
Image

CSTS/PPTS:
Image

The original renderings were for GSLV Mk2. But here is wishing that with the larger fairings and heavier capacity of GSLV M3, ISRO designs for a six-crew Heavy Space Orbiter version than the usual SDRE Light Space Orbiter with just three crew

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby Singha » 01 Jan 2019 16:51

All the govt agencies, academia and pvt sector need to pool in and build our own national military and aerospace museum in Bengaluru or Hyderabad. Land should not be an issue.

The tiny viswesaraya museum in blr has a ancient salvo steel motor case and a mock-up pslv slice iirc. Efforts by kiran Mazumdar shaw to self fund a new site on blr outskirts and revamp the thing were shot down by the museum Dept status quo ppl citing private interference in govt matters!

I would like entire retired iron bird stages of pslv and gslv including the first stage with boosters attached, tejas, all our missiles and radars , nano car , Arihant etc etc

I want tourists including from non indic lands to stand inside one of the gslv main engine nozzles and shit in their pants

Sound and 8k videos from launch pad sensors in iMax theatre please

Appoint someone from ad industry to design and market the who thing than a govt officer. Charge reasonable fees not a pittance in the name of garibi. If people can pay 150 for a burger ... make it cheap or free for school kids with id

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby hnair » 01 Jan 2019 17:36

They have a space museum in that abandoned church were Kalam-sahib and co did their early days. Also if you zoom in, a full scale mock up of a PSLV allright.

https://goo.gl/maps/DDW18URBAgy

But the catch is - you need approval from CISF, since it is deep inside the campus :lol: As good as not there for mango-man

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Postby prasannasimha » 01 Jan 2019 17:59

hnair wrote:They have a space museum in that abandoned church were Kalam-sahib and co did their early days. Also if you zoom in, a full scale mock up of a PSLV allright.

https://goo.gl/maps/DDW18URBAgy

But the catch is - you need approval from CISF, since it is deep inside the campus :lol: As good as not there for mango-man

I have been to thatmuseum and yes there is a full scale mock up of PSLV bit No you can see the museum if you register online and book a visit.
HAL also has a flight.museum with various planes ,engines and PSLV payload fairing etc in Bangalore. It is z nice place to visit.



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