China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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Austin
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 10 Nov 2016 10:44

When I first saw J-20 , I knew this was not your classic air superiority fighter but a fighter bomber , from the patch it appears J-20 is 20 % bigger than Su-27 in scale ..if any one who saw Su-27 first hand knows the size of Su-27 is as big as those fast business jets out there.

J-20 is designed for Strike Mission and Persistence , It wont win a knife fight against F-22 or PAK-FA or Su-35 but will rely on its LO for BVR shots , The knife fight is deligated to J-31 which more looks like Multi-Role/Air Superiority Fighter.

The Chinese knows they cant rely on Refuelling Aircraft so they gave J-20 the longest leg possible for deep strike missions. J-20 is clearly designed for Chinese requirement in mind

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 10 Nov 2016 10:44

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 10 Nov 2016 19:54

^^This image has been heavily "treated" by increasing sharpness and contrast. Should have been left alone - or treated less, Shows up lots of detail - don't know what effect that has on stealth

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 11 Nov 2016 01:48

Austin wrote:When I first saw J-20 , I knew this was not your classic air superiority fighter but a fighter bomber , from the patch it appears J-20 is 20 % bigger than Su-27 in scale ..if any one who saw Su-27 first hand knows the size of Su-27 is as big as those fast business jets out there.

J-20 is designed for Strike Mission and Persistence , It wont win a knife fight against F-22 or PAK-FA or Su-35 but will rely on its LO for BVR shots , The knife fight is deligated to J-31 which more looks like Multi-Role/Air Superiority Fighter.

The Chinese knows they cant rely on Refuelling Aircraft so they gave J-20 the longest leg possible for deep strike missions. J-20 is clearly designed for Chinese requirement in mind


So you're gonna trust a patch over satellite imagery?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Indranil » 11 Nov 2016 02:17

David, Thank you for the satellite imagery. I would like to believe that PLAAF must surely be looking at J-20 as their air dominance fighter if it is developing J-31 only for exports.

Is there any way to validate that satellite imagery. You have to excuse me for being skeptical of pictures coming from China. Where is it from? The myriad of planes lined next to each other is very interesting. They are from different manufacturers and squadrons. The J-20 in the satellite imagery looks of almost the same length as the J-15. However the wet area is much larger. I expect it's empty weight to be heavier than the J-15 by 2-3 tons. The engines on that thing is going to absolutely critical.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 11 Nov 2016 02:59

It's pretty much the same length as the J-15, and there are other satellite images which demonstrate roughly the same thing. The image I believe is taken from a PLAAF testing facility, most likely Yanliang. You can get the latest imagery from google maps right now, just search for Yanliang, it's in Xi'an province. You can see a few J-20s parked there along with a few J-10s and a whole array of other PLAAF aircrafts.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 11 Nov 2016 09:46

DavidD wrote:
Austin wrote:When I first saw J-20 , I knew this was not your classic air superiority fighter but a fighter bomber , from the patch it appears J-20 is 20 % bigger than Su-27 in scale ..if any one who saw Su-27 first hand knows the size of Su-27 is as big as those fast business jets out there.

J-20 is designed for Strike Mission and Persistence , It wont win a knife fight against F-22 or PAK-FA or Su-35 but will rely on its LO for BVR shots , The knife fight is deligated to J-31 which more looks like Multi-Role/Air Superiority Fighter.

The Chinese knows they cant rely on Refuelling Aircraft so they gave J-20 the longest leg possible for deep strike missions. J-20 is clearly designed for Chinese requirement in mind


So you're gonna trust a patch over satellite imagery?


Well yes , Even those Sat image I see J-20 a bit longer and chubbier if that is the right word......May be an appropriate comparision would Su-27 and Su-34 family while both are from same family the latter is chubbier/fatter

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 11 Nov 2016 09:48

China’s J-20 Vs. F-35? Meh, Says CSAF Goldfein; Pilot Crisis Noted

PENTAGON: I thought I could hear Air Force and allied F-35 pilots around the world smiling when the new Air Force Chief of Staff said today that comparing the F-35 to the Chinese J-20 “is almost an irrelevant comparison.”

The F-35, said Gen. David Goldfein, is “about a family of systems and it’s about a network — that’s what gives us an asymmetric advantage.” Instead of comparing the J-20 to the Joint Strike Fighter, Goldfein said, it made more sense to compare the J-20 to the F-117 he flew years ago. When he piloted the F-117 into combat, he pushed the wonderfully named “stealth” button and all his antenna withdrew and his seat dropped down to make the pilot a smaller target. The plane had no connectivity with other aircraft once it went into combat.

“That’s why when i hear about F-35 vs. J-20, it’s almost an irrelevant comparison,” Goldfein said. There’s been enormous amounts of speculation about the Chinese J-20 and J-31 but relatively little comment by American officials. The 2016 Annual Report To Congress about China offered this: “PLAAF leaders believe stealth aircraft provide an offensive operational advantage that denies an adversary the time to mobilize and to conduct defensive operations.”

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 11 Nov 2016 10:27

Austin wrote:
DavidD wrote:
So you're gonna trust a patch over satellite imagery?


Well yes , Even those Sat image I see J-20 a bit longer and chubbier if that is the right word......May be an appropriate comparision would Su-27 and Su-34 family while both are from same family the latter is chubbier/fatter


I don't know how you'd manage to justify trusting a patch over satellite imagery, but that's your prerogative. As for the J-20's size, it's slightly shorter and definitely chubbier, which is the general trend for all 5th gen jets since they need to carry weapons internally.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 11 Nov 2016 10:45

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 11 Nov 2016 20:00

well,

the chief commander of Russian Navy visited CHina recently and had a visit to AC Liaoning.


A famous CHinese retired navy general guesss that Russia might want to co-develope its next Generation AC with China .

Russia has more mature warship nuke-power tech than China.

Chinese electromagnetic catapuplt tech obvioulsy advances faster than russia.


if Russia and CHina can cooperate and exchange their tech, they can work out their next generation super AC sooner than either does alone.
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 11 Nov 2016 20:19

a picture from CD.

Chinese AC catapult testing facilities
( left one is said to be "Steam capapult", the right one is "electromegnetic capapult")

if it is true, it proves that CHina is developing two tech at the same time.

Image


more clear one...
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 12 Nov 2016 15:28

China Unveils New Tank for Mountain Warfare

Image

China’s biggest developer and manufacturer of land armaments, China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO), has for the first time publicly displayed an export version of a new lightweight main battle tank (MBT), dubbed VT5, at the China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition in Zhuha, IHS Jane’s reports.

According to IHS Jane’s, the new MBT has a combat weight of between 33 to 36 tons, a relatively light weight in comparison to other MBTS such as the 43-ton ZTZ-96. The tank’s weight indicates that it could be used for mountain warfare operations to operate in terrains that are inaccessible to heavier MBTs. Like most other light tanks, the VT5 will most likely be used for reconnaissance and infantry support operations.

The tank can reportedly be fitted with advanced composite armor and explosive reactive armor. “The example being shown at Airshow China is also fitted with bar/slat armor on the turret sides and either side of the hull. This provides a higher level of protection against rocket-propelled grenades and similar weapons fitted with a single high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) warhead,” according to IHS Jane’s.

The tank is purportedly armed with a 105 millimeter gun fitted with a thermal sleeve and fume extractor. Similar to guns on other Chinese MBTs, the VT-5’s gun may also be capable of firing laser-guided anti-tank missiles, next to kinetic energy penetrators and high-explosive anti-tank warheads. Furthermore, the VT5 is equipped with a state-of-the-art fire control system and features an autoloader like all Chinese tank designs.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 14 Nov 2016 09:10

Liu wrote:if it is true, it proves that CHina is developing two tech at the same time.

What does this photograph prove?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 14 Nov 2016 09:34

On the aircraft carrier "Liaoning"

http://dambiev.livejournal.com/594165.html

^^ Dozens of pictures there

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby adityadange » 14 Nov 2016 16:10

Austin wrote:On the aircraft carrier "Liaoning"

http://dambiev.livejournal.com/594165.html

^^ Dozens of pictures there


in one of the pic some 7-8 crew members are lifting a missile up to attach on plane pylon. isnt this risky? somebody may stumble upon someone's leg and fall down and unbalance everything? what would be the reason not to develop the trolley that can be raised high enough?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 14 Nov 2016 16:25

adityadange wrote:
Austin wrote:On the aircraft carrier "Liaoning"

http://dambiev.livejournal.com/594165.html

^^ Dozens of pictures there


in one of the pic some 7-8 crew members are lifting a missile up to attach on plane pylon. isnt this risky? somebody may stumble upon someone's leg and fall down and unbalance everything? what would be the reason not to develop the trolley that can be raised high enough?


I have seen such things happen before and its just for couple of seconds where they lift and attach, Even if it falls it might damage the missile or sensitive electronic inside it but it wont explode.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 14 Nov 2016 16:56

J-20 Control Surface

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby SSridhar » 15 Nov 2016 16:58

China’s first aircraft carrier ‘combat ready’: Official - PTI, The Hindu
China’s first aircraft carrier is now ready for combat, a key breakthrough for a navy that has been trying to flex its muscles far beyond its shores amid territorial disputes with several neighbouring countries.

The Liaoning carrier, made from an empty hull of a Soviet era ship, recently left its shipyard in Qingdao in east China to start a new training mission to test its combat capacity as it is prepared to “fight against enemies”.

The construction of China’s second indigenously-built aircraft carrier is already underway at a feverish pitch.

Liaoning, which had previously been described in Chinese media as a surface platform for tests and training, has now “formally been described as having a real combat capacity,” the state-run Global Times said.

“As a military force, we are always combat ready and our combat capacity also needs to be tested by war. At this moment, we are doing our best to promote our strength and use it to prevent war. But we are preparing for actual combat at any time,” Senior Captain Li Dongyou, the political commissar of the vessel, told the daily.

The refurbished ship was launched by former president Hu Jintao in 2012.

There are more than 1,000 non-commissioned officers (NCOs) on the Liaoning, and they are the main part of China’s aircraft carrier. “Among them, we have 42 Chief Petty Officers with an average age of 40 and experience of serving in the navy for more than 20 years,” Captain Li said.

“Weaponry is the key for combat capability on the carrier.

As China’s first generation of NCOs on the carrier, these officers’ capability on how to operate, repair and maintain equipment is irreplaceable. And they are the source of our confidence,” Li said.

The report did not elaborate on how China plans to use the carrier, but Liaoning is seen as to put more muscle behind the Communist giant’s increasing assertive moves in the South China Sea, where territorial claims by neighbouring nations have dogged China’s expansionist idea, and where it faces challenges from the US.

The South China sea, through which $5 trillion of trade passes annually, has been a centre of dispute between China and Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam.

“As a combat platform, China still lags behind the US in technology and capability to execute missions, but three senior US officials who visited the Liaoning before all gave a positive evaluation on the management of the carrier — officers and soldiers’ daily lives and training are well organised and the equipment maintenance is fine,” Li said.

Chinese media reports have said that as the construction of the second aircraft carrier picked up pace, China has stepped up preparations to deploy the first carrier force by putting in place a new batch of carrier-based fighter pilots.

With plans to build two more carriers, the PLA as built up its largest carrier-based pilot team after more than three years of intensive training,
media reports had said in August.

Speculation is rife that China may deploy one of the aircraft carriers in the South China Sea.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kartik » 17 Nov 2016 02:28

First woman pilot to die in J-10 crash.

Questions about CHina's military training after female fighter pilot dies

An elite Chinese fighter pilot died Saturday in a training accident, Chinese media reports.

The pilot, Yu Xu, was particularly well known because she was the first woman to fly the country's most advanced fighter jet, the J-10, and was a member of the elite aerobatic team known as the August 1st Air Demonstration Team, according to the state-run, English-language China Daily newspaper.

Chinese news reports did not describe the cause of the accident, saying only that both Yu and her co-pilot ejected from the plane and that Yu did not survive.

Yu was 30 years old, and had joined the Chinese air force in 2005 as a student at the country's air force university, according to China Daily.

..


Sunday's accident is not the first time the J-10 jet has crashed, the Post reports:

"There has been a string of J-10 accidents over the past few years, the most recent on September 28, when an aircraft crashed near Yangcun air base in Tianjin reportedly after hitting a bird. In May, another J-10 crashed in Taizhou , Zhejiang.

"Three J-10 crashes were reported last year — one each in Shenyang, Huzhou and Taizhou.

"In November 2014, a J-10B fighter jet crashed in suburban Chengdu, injuring at least seven people on the ground."


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Viv S » 17 Nov 2016 23:16

Can't say I'm surprised. Whatever other issues the J-10 may or may not have, the single AL-31 is most certainly a major risk factor. The J-11 & J-16s families don't seem to be suffering similar rates of attrition.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 18 Nov 2016 07:09

:D Interesting coincidence - two reports on the same page that are related in an unexpected way and say something about China

1.
Kartik wrote:First woman pilot to die in J-10 crash.

Questions about CHina's military training after female fighter pilot dies

According to a recent Pentagon-funded report by the nonprofit military think tank Rand Corporation, it is unclear exactly how many hours of training Chinese fighter pilots receive, but "U.S. pilots almost certainly continue to receive more flight hours than their Chinese counterparts."



2.
SSridhar wrote:With plans to build two more carriers, the PLA as built up its largest carrier-based pilot team after more than three years of intensive training,[/b] media reports had said in August.


Now here's a question: If the Chinese have built up a large carrier based pilot team - what sort of carrier experience can they be getting in the presence of only one carrier? Surely there is some propaganda here.

Disclaimer

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 19 Nov 2016 10:36

The main hull of the first 10,000+ ton type 055 cruiser is now complete, and modules for the 2nd one is now being assembled with two modules visible so far. A temporary cover is being constructed for the first 055 while the superstructure is being installed. It's roughly ~180m long with a ~21m beam, rumored to carry ~112 VLS in its first iteration, will use the 850mm x 9m version of the new universal VLS (the 052D supposedly uses the 7m version), has 2 helicopter hangars, and has an integrated mast with possibly a covered deck. The propulsion will be 4 QC280 gas turbines each generating 28MW, with plans for IEPS more likely in later iterations rather than the first few ships. Full displacement is likely ~12,000 tons.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 23 Nov 2016 08:41

https://twitter.com/FG_STrim/status/800696965973626885


Stephen Trimble
‏@FG_STrim
Three-year-old Chinese paper explains how J-20-launched mystery missile can knock out AWACS at more than 300km.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 23 Nov 2016 10:11

Coincidentally, a picture of this picture just came out yesterday carried by a J-16. At ~5.8m long, it's far too big for the J-20 to carry.

http://www.eastpendulum.com/la-chine-de ... gue-portee

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Sid » 23 Nov 2016 10:16

^^An expected copy of R-33 or R-37 AAM.

Incidentally they also have a long range anti radiation AWAC killer varient of HQ-9, called FT2000, reportedly being sold to porkies.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 23 Nov 2016 10:25

Liu wrote:well,

the chief commander of Russian Navy visited CHina recently and had a visit to AC Liaoning.


A famous CHinese retired navy general guesss that Russia might want to co-develope its next Generation AC with China .

Russia has more mature warship nuke-power tech than China.

Chinese electromagnetic catapuplt tech obvioulsy advances faster than russia.


if Russia and CHina can cooperate and exchange their tech, they can work out their next generation super AC sooner than either does alone.



Not going to happen. China is the Trump of the world. Can never be trusted - bet even teh Russians do NOT trust China.

Meanwhile, China has a LOT of catching up to do. Look at her 5th Gen planes. they are over engineered.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 23 Nov 2016 10:26

Sid wrote:^^An expected copy of R-33 or R-37 AAM.

Incidentally they also have a long range anti radiation AWAC killer varient of HQ-9, called FT2000, reportedly being sold to porkies.


That hardly looks like R-33 much less R-37 , That thing is longish like AMRAAM but with tail control surface perhaps TVC there.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Sid » 23 Nov 2016 10:30

Austin wrote:
Sid wrote:^^An expected copy of R-33 or R-37 AAM.

Incidentally they also have a long range anti radiation AWAC killer varient of HQ-9, called FT2000, reportedly being sold to porkies.


That hardly looks like R-33 much less R-37 , That thing is longish like AMRAAM but with tail control surface perhaps TVC there.


Sir ji, their plane also looks like F-15.

They probably copy pasted F-15 launching an AMRAAM for representational purpose :)

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 23 Nov 2016 10:33

Sid wrote:
Austin wrote:
That hardly looks like R-33 much less R-37 , That thing is longish like AMRAAM but with tail control surface perhaps TVC there.


Sir ji, their plane also looks like F-15.

They probably copy pasted F-15 launching an AMRAAM for representational purpose :)


I am looking at the pic of J-11 with that missile its longish with just small rear tail control and indication that it be loafted at high altitude and will be controlled with TVC

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Sid » 23 Nov 2016 10:46

^^My bad, I missed David's post. I just saw twitter pic you posted earlier.

Yes, its indeed a new missile.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby svinayak » 25 Nov 2016 08:00


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 25 Nov 2016 08:55

Artistic Impression of Chinese H-20 Bomber

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 25 Nov 2016 20:43

Photos: Teachings of the PLA Air Force "Red Sword"

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2277984.html


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karthik S » 25 Nov 2016 22:06

We can expect half a dozen Type 052Ds anchored there.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 26 Nov 2016 07:15

Austin wrote:Artistic Impression of Chinese H-20 Bomber

Image

Do these guys have any shame? I mean like did they fall asleep during ethics class or what?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 26 Nov 2016 07:29

I guess it would depend upon which artist one refers to. Is this someone connected with any design house or Chinese defense industry, or is it just fanboy art. One can simply keep digging at academic research papers and get designs from there and create art. That however says absolutely nothing about what the actual design houses are working on.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 26 Nov 2016 07:38

brar_w wrote:I guess it would depend upon which artist one refers to. Is this someone connected with any design house or Chinese defense industry, or is it just fanboy art. One can simply keep digging at academic research papers and get designs from there and create art. That however says absolutely nothing about what the actual design houses are working on.


That's basically what this is. That CG has been out for a while now, probably based on research papers available in the public realm which suggest that China is planning to build a fly-wing type of bomber.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 26 Nov 2016 07:40

Karthik S wrote:We can expect half a dozen Type 052Ds anchored there.

That would be 280 x 12 = 3360 horny and hungry young men looking for recreation in the Baluchistan desert with friendly local women to provide the recreation and pig farms for the pork, and the Pakistan army for security. Sounds like fun. It would require some serious port facilities. I doubt if that port can currently support more than 2 ships. 3000 Chinese in warships would need at least 7-8000 locals along with families, accommodation, supplies, healthcare. In Baluchistan.


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