China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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brar_w
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 26 Nov 2016 07:42

DavidD wrote:
brar_w wrote:I guess it would depend upon which artist one refers to. Is this someone connected with any design house or Chinese defense industry, or is it just fanboy art. One can simply keep digging at academic research papers and get designs from there and create art. That however says absolutely nothing about what the actual design houses are working on.


That's basically what this is. That CG has been out for a while now, probably based on research papers available in the public realm which suggest that China is planning to build a fly-wing type of bomber.



That is not even an educated guess as far as design (it could still be a flying wing). There are a ton of research papers published in aeronautics every year, and China is cranking out a large number. It would be like digging through Boeing, Lockheed, or Northrop affiliate research papers from the 2000's to determine what the B-21 configuration would be. Heck a lot of those would have pointed to a mach 2 super cruiser or some totally different configuration that someone somewhere had written a paper about.

Image
Last edited by brar_w on 26 Nov 2016 08:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karthik S » 26 Nov 2016 07:55

shiv wrote:
Karthik S wrote:We can expect half a dozen Type 052Ds anchored there.

That would be 280 x 12 = 3360 horny and hungry young men looking for recreation in the Baluchistan desert with friendly local women to provide the recreation and pig farms for the pork, and the Pakistan army for security. Sounds like fun. It would require some serious port facilities. I doubt if that port can currently support more than 2 ships. 3000 Chinese in warships would need at least 7-8000 locals along with families, accommodation, supplies, healthcare. In Baluchistan.



I get your point Shivji. I am no strategist but IMO, the main purpose of CPEC is to mitigate the risks of depending on the Straight of Malacca and SCS for Chinese for their trade especially Oil. This will be one of the most important asset to the Chinese and I think they'll make it like the Bagram airbase or even bigger and better considering their building speed and efficiency in this regard.

BTW I meant 280*6 = 1680.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 26 Nov 2016 08:34

Karthik S wrote:
I get your point Shivji. I am no strategist but IMO, the main purpose of CPEC is to mitigate the risks of depending on the Straight of Malacca and SCS for Chinese for their trade especially Oil. This will be one of the most important asset to the Chinese and I think they'll make it like the Bagram airbase or even bigger and better considering their building speed and efficiency in this regard.

BTW I meant 280*6 = 1680.

We need to see what happens because the Pakis want to sell CPEC as important for China, but that does not seem to be the case. Pak is also trying to sell a China-Pak-Russia axis - but then China can get oil from Russia no?

The future of the CPEC remains uncertain. That is not to say that we should not consider it as a threat to India but predictions like "China will house a dozen Type052Ds there" are just the sort of scaremongering statements that become mainstream and used to bash India and praise China. Someone will read BRF and unthinkingly write for IDRW under "my take" and then the idea becomes the truth without any thought about how it can happen. In this day and age when anyone is an ishtrategic expert and anyone can publish an article it won;t take long to take a Wiki description of Type 052 and post it along with a dhotishivering article about how we are on course for getting screwed. Note that everyone makes predictions about how China will do this that or the other but Indians shy away from saying that India can cut off CPEC at short notice as it runs through PoK.

That is why I make it a point to post a counter opinion whenever I see something that I feel may be misleading

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karthik S » 26 Nov 2016 08:49

shiv wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
I get your point Shivji. I am no strategist but IMO, the main purpose of CPEC is to mitigate the risks of depending on the Straight of Malacca and SCS for Chinese for their trade especially Oil. This will be one of the most important asset to the Chinese and I think they'll make it like the Bagram airbase or even bigger and better considering their building speed and efficiency in this regard.

BTW I meant 280*6 = 1680.

We need to see what happens because the Pakis want to sell CPEC as important for China, but that does not seem to be the case. Pak is also trying to sell a China-Pak-Russia axis - but then China can get oil from Russia no?

The future of the CPEC remains uncertain. That is not to say that we should not consider it as a threat to India but predictions like "China will house a dozen Type052Ds there" are just the sort of scaremongering statements that become mainstream and used to bash India and praise China. Someone will read BRF and unthinkingly write for IDRW under "my take" and then the idea becomes the truth without any thought about how it can happen. In this day and age when anyone is an ishtrategic expert and anyone can publish an article it won;t take long to take a Wiki description of Type 052 and post it along with a dhotishivering article about how we are on course for getting screwed. Note that everyone makes predictions about how China will do this that or the other but Indians shy away from saying that India can cut off CPEC at short notice as it runs through PoK.

That is why I make it a point to post a counter opinion whenever I see something that I feel may be misleading


My understanding of CPEC actually comes from this video. At about 4:30 mins onward he explains the importance of CPEC from a Chinese perspective and not from Pak's.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 26 Nov 2016 09:00

brar_w wrote:
DavidD wrote:
That's basically what this is. That CG has been out for a while now, probably based on research papers available in the public realm which suggest that China is planning to build a fly-wing type of bomber.



That is not even an educated guess as far as design (it could still be a flying wing). There are a ton of research papers published in aeronautics every year, and China is cranking out a large number. It would be like digging through Boeing, Lockheed, or Northrop affiliate research papers from the 2000's to determine what the B-21 configuration would be. Heck a lot of those would have pointed to a mach 2 super cruiser or some totally different configuration that someone somewhere had written a paper about.



Hey, I'm not defending its accuracy, just surmising its origin like you did. With that said, there are some credible rumors that China is working on a flying wing type of stealth bomber, and all flying wing types are probably gonna look pretty similar, so any CGI of a flying wing is gonna be fairly close to the real thing to the untrained eye.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 26 Nov 2016 09:17

I didn't mean you were defending it but that it's a wild guess of a design based on a simple literature review of what's being published. It's virtually a given that they'll pursue a flying wing or a iteration of the design and the same applies to the Russian PAKDA which will look at something similar. It's a fairly solid design which both Lockheed and Northrop teams chose to pursue as part of their originsl ATB studies in the pre-B-2 days in the 70's and 80s and it as a basic design has stayed the course even with the B-21.

Having said that not all flying wing designs are the same or can be generalized in art unless of course as you said, its being looked at by someone that really doesnt know what they are looking at.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 26 Nov 2016 09:20

Karthik S wrote:My understanding of CPEC actually comes from this video. At about 4:30 mins onward he explains the importance of CPEC from a Chinese perspective and not from Pak's.


Have you watched the entire video? Try watching from 21 minutes.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 26 Nov 2016 10:03

Rakesh wrote:
Austin wrote:Artistic Impression of Chinese H-20 Bomber

Image

Do these guys have any shame? I mean like did they fall asleep during ethics class or what?


if you want to design a flying wing then you will have looking something similar like B-2 , this one seems to have it own peculiarities.

I am not sure if this is a serious project or fan Boi art but knowing the Chinese I would keep fingers crossed.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karthik S » 26 Nov 2016 10:13

shiv wrote:
Karthik S wrote:My understanding of CPEC actually comes from this video. At about 4:30 mins onward he explains the importance of CPEC from a Chinese perspective and not from Pak's.


Have you watched the entire video? Try watching from 21 minutes.


Yes I did.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 02 Dec 2016 10:08


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kartik » 03 Dec 2016 01:26

Images show PLAAF testing possible new air to air missile

Image
China's People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has been flight testing what appears to be a new long-range air-to-air missile (AAM), according to images posted on Chinese online forums.

Published on the social media platform Weibo on 20 November, the photographs show a PLAAF Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) J-16 (J-11BS derivative) twin-seat fighter carrying two AAMs not previously seen in open sources.

The photographs were removed from the micro-blogging website soon after appearing.

Analysis by Henri Kenhmann, an experienced observer of Chinese military developments, suggests that the missile may be intended to target airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft or other high value airborne units such as air-to-air refuelling aircraft.

The size of the missile is significant, with an estimated length of 5.8 m and a diameter of 300 mm. With no air intakes visible, it is assumed that the missile uses a solid-propellant-based propulsion system.

It is also noteworthy that the only control surfaces are tail fins: a similar configuration to the cancelled US Joint Dual-Role Air Dominance Missile or Next-Generation Missile.

The nose (radome) is ogival and likely to house an active radar seeker. Also seen on the upper surface and offset to the rear of the nose, is an object which could be associated with an infrared sensor window, although this cannot be confirmed due to the limited quality of the imagery.

Sitting behind the nose is a cylindrical section, slightly longer than the nose, which likely holds the missile guidance, proximity fuzing, and power systems. Present near its rear are four equally spaced strips, which are most likely antennas of a radio frequency proximity fuzing system.

Sitting behind this is a short cylindrical section, which likely houses the missile warhead section, the type and mass of which remains unclear.

The longest portion of the missile is the cylindrical motor section.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 03 Dec 2016 02:06

From AvWeek's coverage on the weapon

A new Chinese air-to-air weapon is comparable to a long-range surface-to-air missile in size and appearance and therefore can probably reach well more than 200 km (120 mi.).

With no aerodynamic surfaces except small tail fins to help turn its hefty bulk, it does not look suited for attacking a fighter that would maneuver sharply to avoid a hit. Instead, it seems far more likely to climb high on a ballistic trajectory and drop onto a big and sluggish target that can hardly do anything to get out of the way, such an airborne-early-warning (AEW) aircraft.

If that is the mission, then the system is probably a supplement to, and maybe a backup for, the Avic Chengdu J-20, a big fighter that looks designed to penetrate an enemy fighter barrier with stealth and high speed to knock out support aircraft in the rear. The same job could be attempted with a powerful but non-stealthy aircraft that lobbed weapons over the fighter barrier.
Such an aircraft could be an Avic Shenyang J-16, a Chinese Flanker—such as the one in photographs that have revealed the weapon’s existence.

An anonymous user of a Chinese microblog service published the photos in November. There is always a chance of fakery— analysts have been tricked by phony Chinese pictures. But the images not only look genuine, they also depict a weapon that makes sense for the Chinese air force. Just clear enough for good estimates of dimensions by reference to the J-16, the pictures were almost certainly released by the air force or, on its behalf, by the missile or fighter maker. This is the Chinese military’s idea of a press release.

Letting the other side know what you have can produce results. Aware that China has or, more likely, is developing such a weapon, the U.S., Japan and India must reassess the positioning of AEWs, tankers, maritime patrollers, signals-intelligence aircraft and surveillance drones in the event of conflict. In deciding to keep such aircraft farther behind protective fighters, those countries do not need to be sure that the Chinese missile works, since they can hardly risk such equipment and crews in an attempt to find out.

If tankers must stay farther behind, then fighters must spend more time shuttling back and forth for fuel. An AEW or signals-intelligence aircraft that is driven back will suffer degradation in its ability to detect, if it can still detect at all. When maritime patrollers need to stay farther from a coast, a larger area of sea becomes safe for submarines.

A missile that worried the U.S. Air Force last year was the PL-15. It was named as such by Air Combat Command chief Gen. Herbert Carlisle. If the PL-15 is the missile in photographs that appeared last year, then it is about as big as the old U.S. AIM-7 Sparrow, which is 3.7 m (12 ft.) long and 203 mm (8 in.) in diameter. The PL-15 may be longer.

Assuming equally energetic propellant, equally efficient trajectories and a modern, dual-pulse motor or ramjet, PL-15 should greatly outrange the 3.7-m long, 178-mm thick Raytheon AIM-120 Amraam, prompting Carlisle to call for development of a longer-ranging U.S. weapon. The new Chinese missile seen on the J-16 is around 5.8 m long and 320 mm thick, and therefore about six times bigger than the Amraam.

It is too big to fit into the weapon bays of the J-20, which are about 5 m long. The J-20 could carry it externally, but only at the cost of stealthiness. Moreover, the J-20 does not appear to have a high thrust-weight ratio, so it is not ideal as a standoff air-to-air launcher, which should fly high, fast and upward at the point of release to achieve maximum range.

So the new missile is more likely to be matched to the J-16 and maybe other Chinese members of the powerful Flanker family. Avic’s Shenyang fighter works, as a competitor to the Chengdu operation, would have had reason to cooperate with the missile maker to create an alternative to the J-20. The air force should have seen strong reasons to fund a conservative backup to the advanced and risky stealth fighter.

Targeting data for the new weapon could come directly from the big radar of the J-16. A conventional guidance choice would be inertial with midcourse updates from the fighter and finally active radar homing. Four dielectric windows on the forward fuselage of the missile are similar to those seen on the Russian R-27, which is also in Chinese service. That raises the possibility that Russia’s Agat has provided the seeker, such as an enlargement of the 9B-1103M-350 sensor offered for surface-to-air missiles.


What both articles fail to mention however that the problem with long range interception for such a mission is not that of creating a large enough rocket to get you the distance but it is to have the networking in place to have the proper targeting amidst suppression in the EMS. If you have the capability to produce missiles, producing a large diameter weapon isn't the hard part..its completing the kill chain when under network attack in a dynamic environment where the spectrum is contested especially if your adversaries actively look to rid their reliance on single points of failures when it comes to obtaining situational awareness and C4ISR. The reason the hub and spoke method of having large, expensive, vulnerable assets provide SA and Command and control has survived this long is because it was not challenged in any significant way. Things are going to change quite fast.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 04 Dec 2016 16:30

h20,chinese intercontinent long~range bomber is confirmed to roll out soon.

after h20,y20,j20,z20 enter into service,china will have aviation power projection might only behind USA SOON.


in 3-4 years, we will see PLA battalion~level oversea opertation somewhere far away from chinese nativeland say africa.chinese business interest in africa will receive military escort from PLA.

frankly speaking,with enough logistics,sereral PLA battlions are enough to crush most african native arm forces,except a few say south africa and egypt.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 04 Dec 2016 22:12

Liu wrote:
frankly speaking,with enough logistics,sereral PLA battlions are enough to crush most african native arm forces,except a few say south africa and egypt.

Nice. Wish you luck.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby GShankar » 05 Dec 2016 00:48

hmm a roundabout way of saying we can reach as far as africa means we can also reach anywhere in-between.

Is this lack of balls to verbalize the intent?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 05 Dec 2016 18:34

GShankar wrote:hmm a roundabout way of saying we can reach as far as africa means we can also reach anywhere in-between.

Is this lack of balls to verbalize the intent?

yankees are preacher and are ready to send their troops to vendor their ideology (democracy feedom) everwhere.

now,chinese are businessmen and are not ready to drop any blood for foolish ideology any more.

but china would not hesitate to send their soldiers for business.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby darshhan » 05 Dec 2016 19:22

Liu wrote:h20,chinese intercontinent long~range bomber is confirmed to roll out soon.

after h20,y20,j20,z20 enter into service,china will have aviation power projection might only behind USA SOON.


in 3-4 years, we will see PLA battalion~level oversea opertation somewhere far away from chinese nativeland say africa.chinese business interest in africa will receive military escort from PLA.

frankly speaking,with enough logistics,sereral PLA battlions are enough to crush most african native arm forces,except a few say south africa and egypt.


:lol: Lol. This is what you would typically call as "Low Ambition". Seriously Liu. Is this the best Chinese can do? Defeating Congo/malawi/botswana.

Come on man. You need to raise your game.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby GShankar » 05 Dec 2016 20:52

Liu wrote:
GShankar wrote:hmm a roundabout way of saying we can reach as far as africa means we can also reach anywhere in-between.

Is this lack of balls to verbalize the intent?

yankees are preacher and are ready to send their troops to vendor their ideology (democracy feedom) everwhere.

now,chinese are businessmen and are not ready to drop any blood for foolish ideology any more.

but china would not hesitate to send their soldiers for business.


Your biggest trading partners are in both sides of atlantic. Why not send'm there? :rotfl:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 05 Dec 2016 20:59

darshhan wrote:
Liu wrote:h20,chinese intercontinent long~range bomber is confirmed to roll out soon.

after h20,y20,j20,z20 enter into service,china will have aviation power projection might only behind USA SOON.


in 3-4 years, we will see PLA battalion~level oversea opertation somewhere far away from chinese nativeland say africa.chinese business interest in africa will receive military escort from PLA.

frankly speaking,with enough logistics,sereral PLA battlions are enough to crush most african native arm forces,except a few say south africa and egypt.


:lol: Lol. This is what you would typically call as "Low Ambition". Seriously Liu. Is this the best Chinese can do? Defeating Congo/malawi/botswana.

Come on man. You need to raise your game.

key here is not how to.fight,but how to maintain the logistics.

y20 provide pla intetcontinent mobiity.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ManSingh » 05 Dec 2016 21:45

Native forces in low developed countries are hardest to defeat. There are no HVT to destroy and get a psychological edge. Terrain provides infinite advantage to defenders. Any force depending on Y20, j20 etc in such a scenario will have its vietnam moments.
Above is, if you are looking for a serious reply. Else best of luck

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 06 Dec 2016 07:36

Liu wrote:key here is not how to.fight,but how to maintain the logistics.

That should be easy using CPEC through sweeter than honey Pakistan via GadhaWadar. The Americans used the trans-Pakistan route to crush Afghanistan and win the war.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby rkhanna » 06 Dec 2016 11:13

frankly speaking,with enough logistics,sereral PLA battlions are enough to crush most african native arm forces,except a few say south africa and egypt.


@Liu. The PLA/AF/N while having obtained alot of shinny kit over the past decade is essentially a combat force with ZERO combat experience with Superpower imperial ambitions.

If you have ever studied the history of the African Bush wars in the region you describe it is brutal brutal fighting.

Whether you like it or not those bodies are going to start coming home and its not going to be pretty. Can the Politburo and Citizens Tolerate it?

Here is an interesting article:
[url]
http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-disco ... 8?mod=e2fb[/url]

China's first (since 1979) combat body bags came home recently and it was not pretty.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 07 Dec 2016 07:12

well,in the future,it will be pla's duty to protect hundreds of billion~$~worth commerical projects in developing countries along "one belt,one road".

so, intercontinent military projection might is necessory to pla now.


in most cases, several battations of pla are enough to crush most threaten ,because most armforeces are quite weak there.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 07 Dec 2016 07:16

rkhanna wrote:


@Liu. The PLA/AF/N while having obtained alot of shinny kit over the past decade is essentially a combat force with ZERO combat experience with Superpower imperial ambitions.

If you have ever studied the history of the African Bush wars in the region you describe it is brutal brutal fighting.

Whether you like it or not those bodies are going to start coming home and its not going to be pretty. Can the Politburo and Citizens Tolerate it?

Here is an interesting article:
[url]
http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-disco ... 8?mod=e2fb[/url]

China's first (since 1979) combat body bags came home recently and it was not pretty.

more and more chinese businessmen and tourists appear outside china.

if pla were not to risk body~packing its soldiers, china would have to risk bodypacking its businessmen and tourists.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 07 Dec 2016 08:01

Liu wrote:more and more chinese businessmen and tourists appear outside china.

if pla were not to risk body~packing its soldiers, china would have to risk bodypacking its businessmen and tourists.

What I love about China is the way Chinese are copying the same fakeological bluster that the US uses. Chinese workers are getting knocked off every few days in Pakistan but China does not have the power to put its men there and has to depend on Pakistan. In the meantime the US talks the same sort of shit like "We will protect our citizens" and then puts forces who are gradually killed in a never ending war - it used to be Vietnam and now Afghanistan.

A lot of power bluster and bravado is like a man stroking his own rigid penis and feeling proud of his potency. That does a lot of good for self pride - I would recommend that for Indians - but all this business of putting forces down far away "to protect our citizens" ended with the age of colonialism and the British, other European and Japanese imperial empires.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby hnair » 07 Dec 2016 09:25

Liu wrote:key here is not how to.fight,but how to maintain the logistics.

y20 provide pla intetcontinent mobiity.


Too much of the "we are almost like America" going on here.

Maintaining logistics chain on a smaller scale is not that difficult in Africa. India has been maintaining Mi24/35s gunships and 1000s of troops as part of UN for decades. It helps India, that the western powers operating over there, are not threatened day-in and day-out by Indian military leaders. And India could plug in smoothly with the significant Indian diaspora over there, since the British colonial times. Plus for anything else, there are russian outfits that will do the delivery of military freight in IL76s, which even the US uses behind scenes for carting their Maggi-noodles and bisleri.

But making tall claims against the reality of African bushwars (as Mansingh pointed out, not much targets to bomb and in some cases, feasting on enemies) is what America did, until that incident in Mogadishu. Benghazi arson was another more recent reminder. There are enough militias for hire in Africa, that cannot be taken out by US with its inter-continental scale drone fleets, let alone China. China at this point, cannot sustain any ops without support from a local govt, who has significant military strength (eg: Russia will not be able to replicate Syrian ops in a country with militarily less capable regime than Assad). As Shiv pointed out, China is doing nothing to combat its citizens being slaughtered in Pakistan, a country where the military are the biggest power center. So we need to wait and see if China will actually do anything, other than a chinese spokesperson screaming angrily from Beijing

Btw, this overselling of Y20s, if any Tsingtao crates are going to be carted over to Africa, China will be using its fleet of IL76s like everybody else. Y20 is too much of a risk to be shown outside china, like those J10 fighters. Same as the Su27 derivatives, the IL76s seem to be doing all the primary PLAAF tasks at this point.

India has started using the well tested (and supported) C17s in addition to IL76s for transcontinental logistics. Like that dude (forgot his name) says "color of cat does not matter" etc etc

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 07 Dec 2016 17:19

well, one or two dozen imported il76/c17 does not assure transcontinent logistics,because resupply for operation wearing can not be assured.

just google how soviet used 200+ heavy transporters to maintain the transcontinent logistics of 12k Ethopian troops in 1978 ethopia~somalia war.

when y20 rolled out several years ago, some news said that pla need 400+ y20, which is enough to maintain devision level oversea operations.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 07 Dec 2016 19:25

Liu wrote:well, one or two dozen imported il76/c17 does not assure transcontinent logistics,because resupply for operation wearing can not be assured.

just google how soviet used 200+ heavy transporters to maintain the transcontinent logistics of 12k Ethopian troops in 1978 ethopia~somalia war.

when y20 rolled out several years ago, some news said that pla need 400+ y20, which is enough to maintain devision level oversea operations.


Boss China needs to do it first. Boasting is all that I can hear from you. The reason that people, including myself are mocking you is because there is so much boasting and no action.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby wig » 08 Dec 2016 10:49

China’s diversion plan of Brahmaputra
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/chinas-di ... ahmaputra/
India and China are two ancient giants inhabiting more than half of the world’s human resources. These two countries are widely known to have rich natural mineral and water resources also. Both of them have now become global competitors in the areas of information technology and other areas of international trade in their attempt to reach other nations of Asia, Africa and Latin America. China’s String of Pearls is an added attempt to encircle India through the waters and Islands of the Indian Ocean. India has already lost to China large portion of its land in the Northeastern region and Aksai Chin area in J&K. China has already befriended Pakistan for making deeper dents in its policy of encircling India China also keeps India at its tenterhooks by intermittently sending its armed forces in Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh borders repeatedly. Even otherwise, entire Northeastern region in India has remained disturbed area due to one or other type of insurgencies on the part of Nagas and Bodos largely financed and supported by China. Chinese are also generally known to supply armaments and other type of material support to Naxalite movement in India.
For more than half a century earlier Mao had visualized and planned the Great Bend or U turn water transfer and diversion programme for China in its Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern region including rivers Tsangpo, Yangtze, Han, Yellow etc. Among others, especially the Yarlung Tsangpo river’s diversion will affect Northern Eastern region of India and North Western, North Eastern area of Bangladesh. The larger part of Great Bend will also adversely affect other areas in the South Eastern and South East Asian Regions such as Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. In this sense, China’s current Western diversion plan under Great Bend Programme will start affecting India adversely in its water resource management as well.
China must be regarded as the greatest multifaceted threat to India’s existence and its further development. China has now begun to plan a ‘future shock’ to India and Bangladesh as regards natural river water resources. This is quite clear from China’s Great Bend Programme specially its western project.
The western route diversion is also called South-to-North diversion in the Great Bend U turn water diversion programme. This involves Yangtze river, Yellow river, Yarlung Tsangpo river, Nu river, Lanceng river, Tongtian river, Dadu rivers and Jinsha river. It involves also land from Tibetean plateau through Shanghai plateau upto Beijing. This is the plan of diverting Brahmaputra’s flow from India towards above mentioned Chinese Rivers and Land Areas with the main aim of fulfilling prospective and immediate needs of Beijing.
The significance of this research also lies in the impact and challenges of Great Bend on India, Bangladesh in particular and South Asian countries in general. Apart from causing water depletion for India and Bangladesh, this programme is likely to lead to massive human displacement and emergence of new water conflicts involving India Myanmar and Bangladesh. Such diversions of water on the part of China will also disturb estuary ecosystem. This is especially going to result from China’s ongoing construction of Three Gorges Dam.
China’s such plan will not only disturb biodiversity but will also increase frequency of earthquakes and flash floods in India and Bangladesh. Northeastern region of India and entire country of Bangladesh is also going to be badly affected in terms of economic repercussion. Numerous people will be losing their livelihood dependent on river Brahmaputra. The depletion of surface water table will also affect agricultural health of the region.
The strategic location of the very dam, at Namchibarwa and its proximity to the Indian borders, undermines the security of India. China can use the dam as a military asset in the event of a war, to exploit the potential of the stored water by releasing it towards India causing great disasters in the region. Secondly, shortage of water in the Ganges has already affected the lives and livelihoods of millions in Bangladesh, pushing them to migrate to India, especially to its north eastern region. This migration of Bangladeshis has changed the demographic composition of vast tracts in the North East India especially Assam and has triggered serious ethnic conflicts. Shortage of water in the Brahmaputra will accentuate these problems to dangerous levels, threatening the security of India to a large extent.
The Brahmaputra valley is the biggest in the region which has played an important role in the growth of the States and the region’s economy. Mostly, the Tsangpo’s contribution is very significant as to the recycling of water potentiality of Brahmaputra basin and its biodiversity apart from the basin’s ecological balancing. Nevertheless, the river Brahmaputra is the sole identity of Assamese people flowing all along the state from East to West. Viewed in a broad spectrum, the basins of the Brahmaputra, the Barak and the Irrawaddy rivers occupy and cover 68.42%, 16.36% and 7.27% of the region respectively. Together they constitute 92.04% of the region’s geographical area. However, Brahmaputra and the Barak, the two main rivers of the region, jointly cover 86% of the Northeast region’s water needs. They are undoubtedly the most dominant hydrological systems having the greatest impact on the environment and the lives of the people of the region. It flows through a seismically active region and its basin is home to fragile ecosystems that are rich in biodiversity. In addition, any possible trajectory of water resource development has to accommodate the uncertainties associated with the impacts of climate change and the economic development of the region.
The water received by Bangladesh in the wet season from rivers is about 51% delivered by the Brahmaputra and its tributaries. From the Ganges and its tributaries, Bangladesh gets about 28% of its supply of surface water and from Meghna and its tributaries, some 14% in the wet season. The rest 7% comes from rain. In the dry season, Brahmaputra and its tributaries are the source of 90% of the surface waters for Bangladesh. Thus, the Brahmaputra is seen as the main source of surface water in Bangladesh throughout the year. This scenario is nearly the same in India. Although India is not so utterly dependent like Bangladesh on the Brahmaputra for its surface water, nonetheless its dependence is considered to be close to the Bangladesh situation. For India, also, the Brahmaputra is a very major source of surface water and any decline in the supply of water from this source will not only have a great blow to its economy and ecology but also likely to effect the very survivability of the region in times to come. Apparently, the situation is going to be very grave as a result of successful completion of Western part of Great Bend Programme on the river Yarlung Tsangpo or Brahmaputra.
The clandestine Chinese motives will not only affect India and Bangladesh but also all the eight countries of Asia. That is why it is necessary for South Asian countries to understand Chinese plan and its hidden motives. Otherwise the fall of India and Bangladesh will logically also lead to near complete succumbing of Pakistan, Bhutan, Afghanistan, Maldives, Sri Lanka and Nepal as well. Hence String of Pearls and Great Bend will ultimately lead to entire South Asia falling in China’s basket.
The clandestine Chinese motives will not only effect India and Bangladesh but also all the eight countries of Asia. That is why it is necessary for South Asian countries to understand Chinese plan and its hidden motives. Otherwise the fall of India and Bangladesh will logically also lead to near complete succumbing of Pakistan, Bhutan, Afghanistan, Maldives, Sri Lanka and Nepal as well. Hence String of Pearls and Great Bend will ultimately lead to entire South Asia falling in China’s basket.

hnair
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby hnair » 08 Dec 2016 12:07

Liu wrote:well, one or two dozen imported il76/c17 does not assure transcontinent logistics,because resupply for operation wearing can not be assured.

just google how soviet used 200+ heavy transporters to maintain the transcontinent logistics of 12k Ethopian troops in 1978 ethopia~somalia war.

when y20 rolled out several years ago, some news said that pla need 400+ y20, which is enough to maintain devision level oversea operations.


No one is going to google about Soviets and somehow think Soviets = China of today. We all know what soviets were capable of and what currently china is capable of. A country that build over 200 nuclear submarines, maintained 55,000 tanks and of course build 900 odd of those IL76s that both India and China have. Soviet capability will not to be confused with PLA's current limited capability. Nor PLA's record of not even one non-UN serious combat ready deployment over continents.

Earlier you were confident that battalions of PLA are enough, not "devisions" to deal with the African armies:
frankly speaking,with enough logistics,sereral PLA battlions are enough to crush most african native arm forces,except a few say south africa and egypt.


For that, India has in the past, needed just a handful of IL76s or C17s. But in your above post, you are talking of "devision level" deployments by China. So looks like the african armies seems to have developed some serious capabilities overnight or things are not going as you expected in this forum.

These posts are making China look worse than it probably is, Liu

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 10 Dec 2016 20:46

China flies nuclear-capable bomber in South China Sea after Trump Taiwan call, US officials say

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/09 ... s-say.html

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby darshhan » 11 Dec 2016 10:29

Austin wrote:China flies nuclear-capable bomber in South China Sea after Trump Taiwan call, US officials say

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/09 ... s-say.html


Botswanans and gambians are shivering now.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 11 Dec 2016 22:31

Wonder how will China React to this ?

Donald Trump hints US 'One China' policy could end

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38282825

Speaking in an interview with Fox News broadcast on Sunday, Mr Trump said: "I don't know why we have to be bound by a One China policy unless we make a deal with China having to do with other things, including trade."

Mr Trump also said China was not co-operating with the US on its handling of its currency, on North Korea, or on tensions in the South China Sea.
"I don't want China dictating to me and this was a call put into me," Mr Trump said. "It was a very nice call. Short. And why should some other nation be able to say I can't take a call?

"I think it actually would've been very disrespectful, to be honest with you, not taking it."

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 12 Dec 2016 01:50

Austin wrote:Wonder how will China React to this ?

Donald Trump hints US 'One China' policy could end

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38282825

Speaking in an interview with Fox News broadcast on Sunday, Mr Trump said: "I don't know why we have to be bound by a One China policy unless we make a deal with China having to do with other things, including trade."

Mr Trump also said China was not co-operating with the US on its handling of its currency, on North Korea, or on tensions in the South China Sea.
"I don't want China dictating to me and this was a call put into me," Mr Trump said. "It was a very nice call. Short. And why should some other nation be able to say I can't take a call?

"I think it actually would've been very disrespectful, to be honest with you, not taking it."


Unlike in business, not everything's negotiable in geopolitics, and Taiwan is probably the least negotiable geopolitical issue to China. I think that if another Taiwan crisis happens, there'd be a higher chance of the conflict turning hot than the last one in '96, because the PLA now feels confident about winning a war over Taiwan. So I think the Chinese response will be pretty predictable. It'll start with sharp rhetorics and political/economic pressure, probably more on Taiwan than on the U.S since China has more leverage over Taiwan than the U.S. Militarily there would be a quick build up of the nuclear arsenal in preparation of a potential hot war since the PLA has been looking for a excuse to build up the nuke stockpile anyway.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 12 Dec 2016 07:45

DavidD wrote:Unlike in business, not everything's negotiable in geopolitics, and Taiwan is probably the least negotiable geopolitical issue to China. I think that if another Taiwan crisis happens, there'd be a higher chance of the conflict turning hot than the last one in '96, because the PLA now feels confident about winning a war over Taiwan. So I think the Chinese response will be pretty predictable. It'll start with sharp rhetorics and political/economic pressure, probably more on Taiwan than on the U.S since China has more leverage over Taiwan than the U.S. Militarily there would be a quick build up of the nuclear arsenal in preparation of a potential hot war since the PLA has been looking for a excuse to build up the nuke stockpile anyway.


Indeed and neither US would let its single service man die due defending Taiwan.

I think the current rhetoric is more of a bargaining chip to get better business deal and get more jobs in US viz a viz China. China is too big for any US to ruffle its feathers , even the current Obama admin did little then resort to verbal rhetoric against China but on the ground did little but just let China run the business

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 12 Dec 2016 12:35

well,china is preparing for showhands toyankees seriously.

china now has built a second nuke~sub docks recently in Huludao shipbuilding complex.

it is the world largest one and can build 4 nuke subs at the same time during emergent time.

it shows that china can double its nuke~sub fleet in 2-3 years.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 12 Dec 2016 14:29

Liu wrote:well,china is preparing for showhands toyankees seriously.

Yakees threatening Gambia?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 14 Dec 2016 18:17

it is reported that j20 showed overwhelming edge on j10/j11/su30 with a final of 1:10 in one recent "Military exercises.


neither j10/j11/su30 nor ground radar station detected j20.

it is reported that the final of 1:10 also shocked air mashal MA, the commander of plaaf,who has decided that j20 would enter into service as soon as possible.
Last edited by Liu on 14 Dec 2016 18:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Lisa » 14 Dec 2016 18:28

Liu wrote:it is reported that j20 showed huge edge on 10 j10/j11/su30 with a final of 1:10 in one recent "Military exercises.


neither j10/j11/su30 nor ground radar station detected j20.

it is reported that the final of 1:10 also shocked air mashal MA, the commander of plaaf,who has decided that j20 would enter into service as soon as possible.


I am absolutely stunned. Just asking have you even seen this movie,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYh9_QmNwRA


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