China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

chola · Post by **chola** » 18 Jul 2018 17:07

From Russia with love.

Russki propaganda machine creaming over the Type 96 (at 42 tons, the IA brass would probably like it too.)

https://defence-blog.com/army/chinese-a ... ussia.html

The advanced Type-96 main battle tanks of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army have arrived in Russia to participate in Army Games, said press service of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation in a statement on 17 July.

According to the statement, the military echelon with the Chinese military vehicles, including Type-96 main battle tanks arrived in Alabino near Moscow to participate in Tank Biathlon of the International Army Games-2018.

There are a part of the echelon platform with four tanks Type 96, special repair and maintenance hardware, wagons with material and technical means and regular ammunition

The same echelon arrives advanced group of mechanics-drivers of tanks, engineers and technical workers of the team of Chinese People’s Liberation Army, taking part in the Tank biathlon.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Jul 2018 21:07

The director of the FBI says the whole of Chinese society is a threat to the US - and Americans must step up as a society to defend themselves

Looks like US has now become absolute paranoid !

chola · Post by **chola** » 19 Jul 2018 21:48

Austin wrote:The director of the FBI says the whole of Chinese society is a threat to the US - and Americans must step up as a society to defend themselves

Looks like US has now become absolute paranoid !

Well, he could be right. The PRC is on track to cross the US economically irregardless of what the US does. What the US can do is to retain the technological lead. China’s ability to catch up has been based on massive human connections in form of students, businessmen and tourists to the US and its allies. You cut off that source of cross pollination and hopefully you maintain your technological lead.

The car market is an example of how this can play out. When the chinis can buy 28m to the US 17m, you know the buying power game is already over. A car is the pinnacle purchase outside of a house so when one country buys that much more than the US then it is pretty certain that the wealth generated there has passed the US as well no matter what the GDP numbers say.

BUT 45% of those autos sold in Cheen are phoren brands (like GM, Ford) that are marked up HIGHER in the PRC than in the US or the West so the profits are MUCH greater for the Western firm even in the chini market. “Them Chinamen might have a bigger economy to buy cars but we make more money by keeping our technological lead.”

This is a solid plan. It is not a “head in the sand” attitude that assumes the US will always be Number One because goras are always better than yellows/browns/blacks and they can ignore the chini challenge. The US didn’t become top dog by being complacent.

The only problem is the trade war which might end up with German, Japanese and Korean phoren firms onlee profiting in the chini market while the US is locked out. The US maintains a tech lead with its allies but does not profit from the chini market while its allies do and the chinis still get a version of the tech from US allies (especially the Germans, Israelis and the East Asians.)

The US will need to clamp down on its allies too.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Jul 2018 23:06

by around 1920 the US was the worlds largest GDP though still lagging behind germany, france and UK in leading edge of STEM. but they had scale. they already had the largest navy , and in post WW1 negotiations got themselves the largest tonnage allowed and chowkidari of the western hemisphere medallion.

between 1920 and 1950 through european chaos and war , they closed the STEM gap and built massive scale ... they ended ww2 with 99 aircraft carriers alone and some 100,000 planes.

1960s they raced head and became world leader in almost any field.

the historical parallels are eerie when you consider massa as EU and cheen as the new massa...continent size population and geographical reach.

how china plays the next 30 years will decide if it become a durable P1 or yet another P2...good but not the best

so far we are not even playing for P1/P2 status....a meek mousey apologetic P3 with hardly any real teeth to hurt the P1/P2 seems to be our strategic goal.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 19 Jul 2018 23:29

It is not geographic size or resources that are the ultimate arbiter. The US STEM leapfrog was due to European workers in the 1930s and 40s. Much as the recent Indian Chinese influx that produces outsize results in digital technology or materials science.

The USSR produced spectacular results in space as an ideological directive but the US led in everything else.

It remains to be seen if China will be dominant or a 21st century Argentina. I am confident the Chinese will be done in another 2-3 decades.

chola · Post by **chola** » 19 Jul 2018 23:38

Singha wrote:by around 1920 the US was the worlds largest GDP though still lagging behind germany, france and UK in leading edge of STEM. but they had scale. they already had the largest navy , and in post WW1 negotiations got themselves the largest tonnage allowed and chowkidari of the western hemisphere medallion.

between 1920 and 1950 through european chaos and war , they closed the STEM gap and built massive scale ... they ended ww2 with 99 aircraft carriers alone and some 100,000 planes.

1960s they raced head and became world leader in almost any field.

the historical parallels are eerie when you consider massa as EU and cheen as the new massa...continent size population and geographical reach.

how china plays the next 30 years will decide if it become a durable P1 or yet another P2...good but not the best

so far we are not even playing for P1/P2 status....a meek mousey apologetic P3 with hardly any real teeth to hurt the P1/P2 seems to be our strategic goal.

LOL. Unkil as some chowkidar. LOL. Singha ji, your posts are a blast to read. Insightful but funny as sh1t!

Lots of parallels and the US knows it. If things are left unchecked as before, Cheen would likely end up in the same place as Massa in the 1960s.

But unlike the Euros in the 1920s, America sees what is coming. If the Euros had been an united force in 1920s that cut off Amreeki access to European technology and education then would the 1960s have happened? Or if Germany had not fought France and England?

Or even if Germany had been happy with France and Western Europe onlee? No invasion of Russia would have meant a long term domination of Europe by Teutonic supermen. The Germans would undoubtedly be masters in the world of rockets and jets (it was German scientists who built US/Russian aerospace prowess afterall.) They would gotten to the Moon first.

The US might still have the world’s biggest market in the 1960s but they would buying Heinkel jetliners not Boeing.

I don’t think it matters as much how China plays the next 30 years. It’s path to the world largest economy is set. It probably is already from what we see in global markets — any nation that consumes 50% of global steel and cement is probably the world’s largest economy.

I think it is more important how the US play it. They need to be that theoretical Germany in the alternate universe that maintained its technological lead over the bigger US economy. If the US plays it right, they can maintain the technological edge deep into the future. If not, then both the economy and the technology pole positions go to Cheen.

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 20 Jul 2018 08:11

Austin wrote:The director of the FBI says the whole of Chinese society is a threat to the US - and Americans must step up as a society to defend themselves

Looks like US has now become absolute paranoid !

Around six years late....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Jul 2018 08:55

how will the US univ system react to a steep cut in the vast number of full fee paying sinic students?
they even have residential high schools where rich chinese send their kids as a feeder to UG in murica.

and their numbers in MS and Phd are well known.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 20 Jul 2018 10:28

Some of it will be filled by americans and indians looking for a ticket to a green card.

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 20 Jul 2018 10:41

Singha wrote:by around 1920 the US was the worlds largest GDP though still lagging behind germany, france and UK in leading edge of STEM. but they had scale. they already had the largest navy , and in post WW1 negotiations got themselves the largest tonnage allowed and chowkidari of the western hemisphere medallion.

between 1920 and 1950 through european chaos and war , they closed the STEM gap and built massive scale ... they ended ww2 with 99 aircraft carriers alone and some 100,000 planes.

1960s they raced head and became world leader in almost any field.

the historical parallels are eerie when you consider massa as EU and cheen as the new massa...continent size population and geographical reach.

how china plays the next 30 years will decide if it become a durable P1 or yet another P2...good but not the best

so far we are not even playing for P1/P2 status....a meek mousey apologetic P3 with hardly any real teeth to hurt the P1/P2 seems to be our strategic goal.

The transfer of power from P1->P2 wont be as smooth. UK/EU economies were not based on their currencies being global currency of trade. US has much more riding on its P1 status.

chola · Post by **chola** » 21 Jul 2018 08:41

Naval intel:

1) Supposedly a new variant of the mass produced Type 052D. According to the chini crowd at pdf and sdf, it is larger with more and upgraded weapons. Not a full variant change but a subvariant so according to 50-cents bunch this is the 052DG or 052DL. The next full 052 variant will be the 052E supposedly with IEP.

2) Interesting vessel based on the Type 054 FFG but smaller with pump jets! Just as interesting is that this is a project supposedly not yet sanctioned by a PLA arm (though the Coast Guard is said to be the targeted pespective buyer.) They are becoming innovative. Imagine one of our PSU or private yards creating a prototype under its own volition and finances to pitch for orders.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Jul 2018 08:57

Singha wrote:how will the US univ system react to a steep cut in the vast number of full fee paying sinic students?
they even have residential high schools where rich chinese send their kids as a feeder to UG in murica.

and their numbers in MS and Phd are well known.

I heard that atleast Indian students numbers have declined very recently by a vast margin. Heard some good univs are offering 100% scholarships to attract phoren students.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Jul 2018 10:52

CIA official: China wants to replace US as world superpower

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Jul 2018 10:54

Karthik S wrote:
Singha wrote:how will the US univ system react to a steep cut in the vast number of full fee paying sinic students?
they even have residential high schools where rich chinese send their kids as a feeder to UG in murica.

and their numbers in MS and Phd are well known.
I heard that atleast Indian students numbers have declined very recently by a vast margin. Heard some good univs are offering 100% scholarships to attract phoren students.

Student loan in US has reached crisis point

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... dent-loans

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jul 2018 11:31

Univs overspent on star faculty and lavish infra
They should focus on basics that made them great in 50s and 60s

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Jul 2018 12:56

Austin wrote:CIA official: China wants to replace US as world superpower

US intelligence can get as politically biased as they can depending on if the POTUS is Dems or Rep.

When Obama/DEMS was the POTUS , US Estb whole heartedly accepted

>>Peaceful Rise of China
>>China as the next superpower as mentioned by their Joint Chief of Staff on visit to China with the clause of Great responsibilities comes with Great Power.
>> China would be Manuf Superpower , US would be Service superpower
>> China rise can be managed and is beneficial to the US.
>> All Chinese Military Spying including JSF and so many others were swept under the carpet , No Media Tamasha which would for any other country would invite first class sanctions
>> All Economic Espionage was swept under carpet as talks will china would solve it
>> Iran JCPOA was a Great Deal of Century
>> Israel concerns was completely ignored.
>> Russia was the main Threat to US and needs to be contained , China can be Managed

That was the MSM Punchline for the 8 years of Obama , Their DNI James Clapper and CIA Chief wont even mention China as threat except when asked or as passing statement , Russia was their source of problem for every thing.

Come Trump/Rep to Power with new CIA and FBI Chief

1 ) China is the main enemy of the US , It spies on all the states.
2 ) Military Espionage and Economic Espionage are not to be taken lightly
3 ) All out Trade war with China on Tarrif
4 ) Chinese COmpanies in US are National Security Threat
5 ) IRAN/JCPOA as the worst deal of Century
6 ) Israel concerns takes preceident over every thing to the extent of getting out of JCPOA
7 ) Russia can be managed and worked with and China can be contained.

Botton Line their Intel Chief from all agency will parrot their political lines , All they need to say is they have "High Confidence" in the Intel report to support their claim , Dems are Pro-China and Anti-Russia , While Rep are Anti-China & pro - Russia.

So which country is the enemy boils down to which party is in power , The intel report and DIA report will be managed accordingly to suite the needs of the circumstances

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Jul 2018 12:58

Singha wrote:Univs overspent on star faculty and lavish infra
They should focus on basics that made them great in 50s and 60s

Those times will never come back now its Bankrolled by Financial Institution student buy loan and they spend rest of their life paying it back , practiacally making them slave of these banks.

nam · Post by **nam** » 21 Jul 2018 13:56

Austin wrote:The director of the FBI says the whole of Chinese society is a threat to the US - and Americans must step up as a society to defend themselves

Looks like US has now become absolute paranoid !

US is not being paranoid.It is being smart. You need a enemy to build power for your country. Unless there is a enemy and the objective is to always better the enemy, a nation does not grow.

Enmity and wars brings out the best in innovation and power. US, Russia, Europe will not be where they are now if not for WW1, WW2 ,Cold war and the constant enmity for decades before that.

Thanks for small mercies, we have a crazy entity on our western border. If not for them, we would have a police constabulary instead of a army. Our leaders leave no chance to spread friendship with our adversaries like Pak & China. This is why we lack in military industrial complex,power projection and innovation in weapon tech.

In comparison Pak & China are needle focused. We cannot even handle a nation 1/10th of our GDP.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jul 2018 14:36

what is the advantage of a pumpjet ? shallower draft to operate in and around all the islands they are squatting on? ability to sail further upriver on gunboat missions to shell native villages ?

no deep ocean warship uses pumpjets.

chola · Post by **chola** » 21 Jul 2018 14:41

nam wrote:
Austin wrote:The director of the FBI says the whole of Chinese society is a threat to the US - and Americans must step up as a society to defend themselves

Looks like US has now become absolute paranoid !
US is not being paranoid.It is being smart. You need a enemy to build power for your country. Unless there is a enemy and the objective is to always better the enemy, a nation does not grow.

Enmity and wars brings out the best in innovation and power. US, Russia, Europe will not be where they are now if not for WW1, WW2 ,Cold war and the constant enmity for decades before that.

Thanks for small mercies, we have a crazy entity on our western border. If not for them, we would have a police constabulary instead of a army. Our leaders leave no chance to spread friendship with our adversaries like Pak & China. This is why we lack in military industrial complex,power projection and innovation in weapon tech.

In comparison Pak & China are needle focused. We cannot even handle a nation 1/10th of our GDP.

Cheen had not fought a war in decades but there is no doubt that its growth was fueled by its rivalry with the US, Japan, SoKo and Taiwan. In the US, there is a phrase for sport teams and why you want your team and yourself to play in good leagues: “You play to the level of your competition.”

Having Cheen rise in the last decades have given us a kick in the pants. Our level of competition in the neighborhood without the chinis is decidedly bush league — like being in the Tamil Nadu league instead of the ICC.

Our lack of a MIC has nothing to do with us spreading peace. It is the result of the exact opposite. We put too much premium on imminent two-front wars with Pak and Cheen. We act like a scared minor power instead of the dominant one that we are in our region. We should have been able to field local weapons in the last three decades against a failed state like Pakiland (beating it handily in three wars like the minor shit state we know them to be) and a SYRE non-warrior mercantile state like Cheen (no wars in 40 years and shitty little emperor troops that fled from Sudanese militiamen.)

Instead, we are told that we must have the best on phoren market right here, right now because we cannot wait for domestic solutions. When in actuality we have more than enough ability to deal with Pak and whatever rump force Cheen could put up. We more than enough time to build our industrial base by buying our own weapons.

The moment we realize we are the overwhelmingly dominant power in South Asia instead of a minor one under threat, the export lobby will die and our MIC will grow.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jul 2018 14:45

TSPs steroid pumped rage collapsed with ussr breakup and the pipeline of free goodies got drastically cut. since then they are a threat only via terrorism. they are not in position to threaten us at any level beyond these cuts.

the whole of IA's plains heavy infantry divisions and planning needs a revamp to focus on taking the fight deep into tibet. even a rump south tibet with a lama as the president will be a resounding slap on the dragons face as the fallout of any future conflict.

apart from that we need to invest into the corrupt politico-business elites in ASEAN, south asia, africa and mid east. usa, eu, now china do it all the time. crony capitalism is quite strong in east asia.

chola · Post by **chola** » 21 Jul 2018 14:51

Singha wrote:what is the advantage of a pumpjet ? shallower draft to operate in and around all the islands they are squatting on? ability to sail further upriver on gunboat missions to shell native villages ?

no deep ocean warship uses pumpjets.

Yes, shallow water and high speed operations seems to be the big advantages from what I read. If Coast Guard then green water with the shallows of the SCS being the furthest it is expected to travel?

But possible that this was built only because it looks cool to some commie CEO and they want to prototype it. Not actually ordered by anyone from what I gathered. Though at 2k tons, it must be fairly expensive so they must think they’ll recoup.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 21 Jul 2018 16:05

My prediction out of my Musharraf, India should prepare for another Docklam type land grabbing act from our north-east neighbor during coming months. This time, I expect they will move large number of units to the border to show their muscles and would be expecting India to back down to grab another slice of land. All our political class will be busy with the election 2019 fever, so I expect we might be exposed or ignore the early signs of preparation or dismiss it completely at political level.

I hope MoD and GoI together with Army, CPRF and ITBP stay alert on the border. Any such issues should be handled properly without any operational laxity.

I sincerely hope that I am wrong on this account!!

nam · Post by **nam** » 21 Jul 2018 16:33

chola wrote:
Our lack of a MIC has nothing to do with us spreading peace. It is the result of the exact opposite. We put too much premium on imminent two-front wars with Pak and Cheen. We act like a scared minor power instead of the dominant one that we are in our region. We should have been able to field local weapons in the last three decades against a failed state like Pakiland (beating it handily in three wars like the minor shit state we know them to be) and a SYRE non-warrior mercantile state like Cheen (no wars in 40 years and shitty little emperor troops that fled from Sudanese militiamen.)

It wouldn't matter if Chinis are powerful or weaker than us in reality. It is about using a 10 feet chinaman syndrome to built power. The problem with us , we don't think we are dominant AND we don't want to do anything about it. We don't want to compete.

If the Pakis had not bought T80's, IA would still be running around in T72s. Would those 200-300 T80s cause any effect on us in reality? Nope.But it gave the excuse for IA to modernize it's armour.

The biggest setback in Doklam was those stupid chini were only blabbering . I hope we haven't taken wrong lessons from it, that we have adequate power to hold off the chinese.

We need a Indian version of "The Red Dawn" type fear mongering..and people asking GoI what are they doing to fight the Red Dawn.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jul 2018 22:17

reading that flipped my mind to something that i had read in 80s about a waterjet boat expedition on the ganga , and found the link, led by none other than edmund hillary. they can operate in shallow water as no propeller or podded propulsor hanging below

they must plan to chase splittist and counter revolutionary elements up the singapore river from clarke quay and shell native villages as also steam to upper reaches of salween and irrawady

https://hamiltonjet.uberflip.com/hamilt ... e-restored

NZ is a leader in waterjet boats

chola · Post by **chola** » 22 Jul 2018 16:25

Even the Amreeki Coast Guard operates just off the chini coastline.

The USCG Cutter Alex Haley transfers a chinese fishing that was caught illegally fishing in the Sea of Japan to a Chinese cutter.

nam wrote: It wouldn't matter if Chinis are powerful or weaker than us in reality. It is about using a 10 feet chinaman syndrome to built power.

Unfortunately, we ARE using the “10 feet chinaman syndrome.”

We are using it to justify imports of foreign maal on the fears that the two-front war is around the corner.

Despite the fact that we own overwhelming 20 to 1 advantages in manpower and aircraft along the entire chini border.

Instead of using the China challenge to build up our MIC we used it to buy more firangi gear.

Contrast this with the PRC: they have the USN, USMC, USAF and USCG (see above) operating right off their coast — and that’s not including the Japanese SDF, the ROK Navy, AF and CG and the ROC Navy, AF and CG — and yet they have enough confidence to build up their MIC through purchases and deployments of obviously inferior domestic equipment until their MIC is capable of the Type 055 and J-20 we see today. And the Type 002 CATOBARs and H-20 strategic bombers we’ll see shortly in the future.

The chinis figured out very early that great powers do not go to war with each other (though I’m pretty sure they had some nervous moments when the US was overrunning Iraq and bombing Afhanistan right next to Xinjiang.) They are confident in their position as a dominant power despite being surrounded by powerful states. We OTOH act like a threatened minor power even though we dominate our region like a Colossus among midgets.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Jul 2018 17:55

Refer my cat hiding under sofa in IN thread to define an
Image of the last para above

The cat cowers and hides and the rats party and tear up the house

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 22 Jul 2018 22:14

Submarine strength of Asian nations:

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... n-5270184/

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 23 Jul 2018 07:20

It's very surprising that Sri Lanka an island nation situated so close to the busy Indian Ocean shipping lane has ZERO submarines.

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 Jul 2018 17:21

Kashi wrote:It's very surprising that Sri Lanka an island nation situated so close to the busy Indian Ocean shipping lane has ZERO submarines.

Won't be surprised if the Chinese has already offered them a few with the usual loan formalities .. India needs to be prepared for that eventuality ..its not if but When..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jul 2018 19:17

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jul 2018 19:19

12 large DDG and some 25 large FFG + some 50 ocean going corvettes + 2 carriers + many large supply ships

incredible move in 10 years. nearly 100 warships + countless FACs ... more than UK + France have in total.

so far they have not surged the number of SSNs...that may happen if 095 is deemed competitive. they took their time on 052A,B,C before surging the D. I think a large new submarine construction yard is being built.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jul 2018 19:22

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jul 2018 19:27

chola · Post by **chola** » 23 Jul 2018 20:09

Singha wrote:12 large DDG and some 25 large FFG + some 50 ocean going corvettes + 2 carriers + many large supply ships

incredible move in 10 years. nearly 100 warships + countless FACs ... more than UK + France have in total.

so far they have not surged the number of SSNs...that may happen if 095 is deemed competitive. they took their time on 052A,B,C before surging the D. I think a large new submarine construction yard is being built.

Just to get a bigger dhoti shivering effect . . .

That chart actually doesn’t even include five other 055s that launched or were identified as having begun construction. It is also missing eight more 052Ds in various states of construction.

Thank Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma for the chinis’ inability to quiet their nooks.

Just like their engine issues with aircraft, this puts at least a temporary break on their numbers.

But yes, Singhaji, once they like something and deem it acceptable they will surge it. That new sub plant seems like it is made for that eventuality.

That said, remember those 21 new J-10C piling up outside factory grounds? Training enough SSN crews will be hell of a lot harder so when they surge, they won’t have the people to sail them. I think we’ll see them tied up to berths all over Hainan in sat pics if they do surge.

Unlike the surface ships, subs can’t establish jurisdiction and persistent presence during peacetime. These are pure war machines. So that might be a reason why they won’t surge subs like the surface fleet. They’ll grow SSN numbers but it won’t be like they did launching four Type 055s within a year.

At least, I hope not.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jul 2018 22:58

subs will be needed to snoop on foreign sea lanes, put pressure on the USN in eastern pacific and mid-east and protect carrier groups.

invisible but they radiate a lot threat and certainly a big coin in the currencies of hard power.

massa rules the roost not just on the back of ships but unparalleled number of attack subs.....they can put pressure on enemy sea lanes and strike deep inland - anywhere in the world .

if china has 20-30 world class subs able to do that, they can put counterpressure on the american coast without needing any nearby allies for basing.

I feel the 095 is it , the new sub factory can turn out 4 in each lot. I predict another of similar size for higher pipeline of SSNs.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 24 Jul 2018 00:14

chola wrote:Naval intel:

1) Supposedly a new variant of the mass produced Type 052D. According to the chini crowd at pdf and sdf, it is larger with more and upgraded weapons. Not a full variant change but a subvariant so according to 50-cents bunch this is the 052DG or 052DL. The next full 052 variant will be the 052E supposedly with IEP.

...

Are the radars bigger than arleigh burke class, or do they just appear that way?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jul 2018 07:27

they are bigger i think or atleast the space can accomodate.

where they have really scored is huge number of 054A and 056 churned out - these are used to swarm all over the disputed areas of SCS and browbeat the smaller navies and coast guards. naval equivalent of large scale boots on ground.

the bigger ships are not used for this flag waving.

chola · Post by **chola** » 24 Jul 2018 14:14

abhik wrote:
chola wrote:Naval intel:

1) Supposedly a new variant of the mass produced Type 052D. According to the chini crowd at pdf and sdf, it is larger with more and upgraded weapons. Not a full variant change but a subvariant so according to 50-cents bunch this is the 052DG or 052DL. The next full 052 variant will be the 052E supposedly with IEP.

...
Are the radars bigger than arleigh burke class, or do they just appear that way?

Probably roughly the same sized radar. The base 052D is a smaller ship than the Burke — 7.5k tons to 9.8k ton (Fl III.) Though this subvariant is supposed to be a bit bigger.

Singha ji, the 052Ds are in large numbers as well. I think they are there to show the flag (creating fait de accompli) as much as the 054As and 056s. So according to the wiki there are 14 in the water and five in construction making 19 of them for certain. All launched since 2012(!!!) onlee. The wiki listed that they planned 26 of the D’s.

It looks like they will be building the 052X along side the 055s with the 052E almost a certainty from the chatter. So who knows how many of them by the time the 052 series ends? 40? 50?

The numbers are insane to even think about in our context when we began the Kolkata in 2003, built 3 and now on to just 4 Visakhatpatnams onlee. The 3rd and 4th Visaks are no more than blueprints right now. And no followon for our next destroyer class announced yet even though we have far longer lead times in building ships. The gap is an unrelenting chasm widening with every year.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jul 2018 16:48

with so many large hulls they need more bases around the world . the gulf-to-red-sea fleet will be next...based in djibouti and gwader.

a submarine base in vanuatu to get the aussies off balance

but the real prize would be a base on south coast of java or sumatra adjacent to deep and open water of IOR ... that would be a supreme prize worth paying anything for.