China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 04 Oct 2018 19:54

China Is Developing Space Lasers To Detect Submarines 1,640 Feet Underwater

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... underwater

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Oct 2018 20:07

I think drifting passive unmanned fleets of asw droneships holds way more traction. Darpa has already done it

They can be passive or active as needed. Maybe even shoot a laser if they hear or see anything

In future maybe have a lwt or report to a heavier missile ship

nam · Post by **nam** » 04 Oct 2018 20:45

China Is Developing Space Lasers To Detect Submarines 1,640 Feet Underwater

Typical Star Wars type solutions and hype. How will the Laser work on bad weather day?

And if this thing works why fire it from a satellite? why not from a ship?

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Oct 2018 00:05

Singha wrote:quid pro quo with ilyushin - help us implement the stolen c17 design drawings and we will keep you well fed.

Aptly put !!

gaurav.p · Post by **gaurav.p** » 05 Oct 2018 00:47

The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate U.S. Companies

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... -companies

kit · Post by **kit** » 05 Oct 2018 01:00

nam wrote:
China Is Developing Space Lasers To Detect Submarines 1,640 Feet Underwater
Typical Star Wars type solutions and hype. How will the Laser work on bad weather day?

And if this thing works why fire it from a satellite? why not from a ship?

The US has already deployed space based laser communications with its subs .. maybe this is something similar

nam · Post by **nam** » 05 Oct 2018 01:08

That is communication system.

souravB · Post by **souravB** » 05 Oct 2018 06:15

Can anybody please explain to me the physics of this farce. As far my limited knowledge in physics go, lasers refracts heavily in water and only blue-green spectrum of the light can reach around 300-400 ft. While Khan Chacha and Natasha didi is finding alternative ways after investing big money in this kind of tech, how come Winnie the Pooh is going to change physics. Also shouldn't the LIDAR tech depend on getting some of the reflected energy back to the sensor, how are they going to achieve that?

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 05 Oct 2018 06:28

It's already possible to scan underwater submarines and sea mines using air borne lidar (i.e lidar on board a plane scanning through water). It's called Lidar Bathymetery. Its even being implemented on Scan Eagle type drones launched by warships at sea to hunt around for enemy subs. It is however depth limited and dependent on certain (clear) water conditions.

Doing the same from a satellite hundreds of kilometers up however sounds more far fetched but who knows.

Perhaps they are not aiming to penetrate the surface of the water but rather profile the surface of the water for slight abnormalities in wave patterns (not deectable to human eyes but only through signal processing) that might indicate a submersible underneath. This is what both the Soviet Union and US were developing during the Cold War. That would be their most likely aim I would guess.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Oct 2018 22:19

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 07 Oct 2018 20:10

Russia trusts China far less than it trusts the US.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 08 Oct 2018 07:48

souravB wrote:Can anybody please explain to me the physics of this farce. As far my limited knowledge in physics go, lasers refracts heavily in water and only blue-green spectrum of the light can reach around 300-400 ft. While Khan Chacha and Natasha didi is finding alternative ways after investing big money in this kind of tech, how come Winnie the Pooh is going to change physics. Also shouldn't the LIDAR tech depend on getting some of the reflected energy back to the sensor, how are they going to achieve that?

Current Lidar bathymetry is limited to some ~50m so it is mostly shallow water they may be talking about. They may keep close watch on coastal waters to study patterns of submarine and ship movement and may work out some mathematical function based on this. If the movements are random it might be difficult but still predictable with some confidence level.

Too much variability including property of bending light in water. It is expensive thing to run waveform analysis on such large scale yet Chinese have supercomputers to do this. It is still cheaper than deployment of large number of ships though!!

I knew certain people a decade and half ago (typically funded by NOAA and NASA) doing research in deep sea using Raman spectroscopy technology for depth upto 500m. Not sure how far they might have gone now. Perhaps Chinese must have got hold of some of these research from West and advanced it quicker!!

chola · Post by **chola** » 08 Oct 2018 16:35

Intel:
https://mobile.twitter.com/dafengcao/st ... 5508061184

Interesting to see J-15's mockup aboard 002 CV featuring wingtip ECM pods to simulate the dimension of J-15 EW a/c, which suggests J-15 EW a/c will take a role in 002 CV's air wing.

The two hinged covers opened in front of the mockup are accesses to the weapons elevator.

chola · Post by **chola** » 08 Oct 2018 17:05

Singha wrote:quid pro quo with ilyushin - help us implement the stolen c17 design drawings and we will keep you well fed.

Neshant wrote:Russia trusts China far less than it trusts the US.

Chinis played both sides of the Roos/Ukraine divide to great benefits.

http://en.people.cn/business/n3/2017/09 ... 71205.html

China is working with Ukraine on an industrial park to build aircraft engines, a joint venture expected to extensively boost China's research, development and production capabilities in that area, according to project insiders.
Chongqing Skyrizon Aero-Propulsion Industrial Park, which broke ground in late 2015, will cover 5 square kilometers in the Chongqing Liangjiang New Area, and involves an investment of 20 billion yuan ($3.04 billion).

Russians are going gangbusters with budget and resources on the CR929, something they never did for us on the MTA.
https://centreforaviation.com/news/russ ... 021-843939

https://www.compositesworld.com/news/ua ... y-aircraft

http://m.aviationweek.com/new-civil-air ... -two-years

We need to stop these self re-assuring and delusional imaginations that Roos are not “really” interested in helping Cheen. They already have and will help a lot more in the future from what I’ve seen. Far more than they helped us. We get MKI subcontracting, they got actual Flanker ToT to build as many and in whatever form they want

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Oct 2018 17:17

um wingtip ecm pods are gardenia, sorbstya etc are std on all russian flankers. that does NOT indicate any special growlah prowlah role.

what one should look for is powerful pylon jammers and sensors using ram air turbines/small props to generate some or all of own power.
and a large number of additional antennas and conformal RF panels all over vs a regular flanker.

and the mockup is single seat - while EW ac incl growlah is usually 2 seater to manage the mass of additional gear. I will concede that F16CJ is a 1 seater. not aware of how it stacks up against the F18G

every russian flanker has wingtip ew pods. they are not so good as IAF found...or maybe the Rus keeps the good stuff for own use

chola · Post by **chola** » 08 Oct 2018 17:25

Singha wrote:um wingtip ecm pods are gardenia, sorbstya etc are std on all russian flankers. that does NOT indicate any special growlah prowlah role.

what one should look for is powerful pylon jammers and sensors using ram air turbines to generate some or all of own power.
and a large number of additional antennas and conformal RF panels all over vs a regular flanker.

Ah, but the built-in pods on the J-15D (EW) are different and it is a two-seater. The mock-up is just a mock-up with new pods to simulate spacing while working out aircraft operations on elevators and such I imagine:

J-15D:

Run-of-the-mill J-15:

SU-33:

J-15D also had its gun removed.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 08 Oct 2018 18:32

Singha wrote:um wingtip ecm pods are gardenia, sorbstya etc are std on all russian flankers. that does NOT indicate any special growlah prowlah role.

what one should look for is powerful pylon jammers and sensors using ram air turbines/small props to generate some or all of own power.
and a large number of additional antennas and conformal RF panels all over vs a regular flanker.

My eyes could be deceiving me but the J-15D does not appear to be carrying ECM pods but wingtip receivers. While you need high power, wideband jammers to execute the full spectrum Electronic Warfare Mission (Electronic Attack + Electronic Protection + Electronic Support) you can still perform many of the missions using just sensitive receivers and a capable targeting weapon and tactics. Think of, pin-pointing emitters and then targeting them using ARMs. The USN refers to this as the "Silent Growler" concept.

The full spectrum EW mission is technically challenging. Not only do you need wideband jammers capable of providing stand in -- escort -- stand off Electronic Attack but you need them to be able to do so against agile emitters (many AESAs now around the world) operating across the spectrum.

Furthermore, you also need to be able to execute both missions concurrently, i.e. you need to be able to study/analyze your emitter behavior in real time while also actively jamming it. This requires your receivers to be able to operate through your own jamming which is technically not very easy and I believe the Growler is the only aircraft that can do both concurrently as well as communicate with other aircraft and its weapons through its own jamming.

China may not be there yet but this would be a good start. The ECM pods associated wit Russian flankers are wingtip mounted EA pods primarily used for escort duties. Besides technical and engineering challenges, the most challenging part of EW/EA community is to develop the right tactics, and to train in complex and realistic simulated environments. While the former will likely require some time, given that they now have a carve out of their J-15 fleet dedicated to this role, they can now begin working on the other areas though it takes a lot of time to get this mission right.

chola · Post by **chola** » 09 Oct 2018 08:26

brar_w wrote: China may not be there yet but this would be a good start. The ECM pods associated wit Russian flankers are wingtip mounted EA pods primarily used for escort duties. Besides technical and engineering challenges, the most challenging part of EW/EA community is to develop the right tactics, and to train in complex and realistic simulated environments. While the former will likely require some time, given that they now have a carve out of their J-15 fleet dedicated to this role, they can now begin working on the other areas though it takes a lot of time to get this mission right.

Yes, this is what impresses me to be perfectly honest. They plan things out and then perservere to ride the inevitable setbacks out in the national interest.

Just like the J-10 I wrote about earlier in this thread, the J-15 is a dangerous first of a kind by the chinis — the J-10 was their first FBW and the J-15 their first carrier fixed wing. This thing has already had multiple accidents and deaths yet the chinis are flying prototypes for a CATOBAR version along with the EW ones.

Still we can’t ignore how much help Russia have given them in this endeavor. There is no way the PRC could have built a working carrier aircraft just by reverse engineering the T-10K. There is no margin for propaganda here. A carrier plane either lands correctly or not — and the consequences of not landing correctly on a capital housing thousands is great enough that even the chinis would not risk it.

The J-15 first flew in 2009 and landed on the Kuz/Liaoning as early as 2012. It was officially inducted in 2013. Bull manure that they would risk and induct that fast by themselves.

The Russians are heavily involved in the J-15 without doubt. There are pictures of the J-15 with WS-10 engines like the J-11B it was supposedly derived from but ALL the production J-15s taking off and landing on their carrier are equipped with AL-31s. If the J-15 were an unsanctioned copy, the russkies could have stopped the program dead by denying them the engines.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Oct 2018 10:37

In other news cheen announces sale of 48 wing loong2 drones to tsp

These are as big as the reaper

Its endurance and speed may not be at par with reaper but can take 12 atgm

https://youtu.be/bTr_zPbvELU

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 09 Oct 2018 11:02

What will India buy now? Avenger or Predator?

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 09 Oct 2018 11:03

Singha wrote:In other news cheen announces sale of 48 wing loong2 drones to tsp

These are as big as the reaper

Its endurance and speed may not be at par with reaper but can take 12 atgm

https://youtu.be/bTr_zPbvELU

Who's paying? IMF, China?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Oct 2018 11:17

We already have the sam systems to shred them. We aint yemen

When neighbour buys a bmw invest in a good dog to piss against its wheels at night

chola · Post by **chola** » 09 Oct 2018 13:43

Singha wrote:We already have the sam systems to shred them. We aint yemen

When neighbour buys a bmw invest in a good dog to piss against its wheels at night

LOL. I like this and the tramp steamer quip, GD. You are a joy to read.

The thing to remember about their drone industry is the availability of engines like the WJ-9 turboprop (from their Y-12 light utility aircraft) and an ordnance industry building lilliputian mijjiles and bombs specifically for drones like the AR-1. It gives their many state and private developers off-the-shelf options.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 09 Oct 2018 18:03

Singha wrote:We already have the sam systems to shred them. We aint yemen

When neighbour buys a bmw invest in a good dog to piss against its wheels at night

Attack Helicopters are another very good anti drone platform, though they might be costlier on a unit-to-unit basis

The future will soon see Anti-drone drones

Manish_P wrote:Reaper scores drone kill in air-to-air missile test

The US Air Force has revealed that an MQ-9 Reaper uncrewed aircraft successfully shot down a smaller drone with a heat-seeking air-to-air missile in a test last November. The details, provided by Col. Julian Cheater, commander of the 432nd Wing, came in an interview with Military.com at the Air Force Association's Air, Space, and Cyber Conference in Washington, DC, yesterday. While the weapon used wasn't discussed by Col. Cheater, it was likely a version of the Stinger missile that Raytheon recently upgraded to make more suitable for shooting down drones.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 09 Oct 2018 20:49

ArjunPandit wrote:
Singha wrote:In other news cheen announces sale of 48 wing loong2 drones to tsp

These are as big as the reaper

Its endurance and speed may not be at par with reaper but can take 12 atgm

https://youtu.be/bTr_zPbvELU
Who's paying? IMF, China?

Basically China is selling to China itself

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 10 Oct 2018 15:16

More spyware build into electronics from China..

Yet India is sourcing critical components for a ton of Telecom and telemetry equipment from China.

-----

New Evidence Of Chinese Spy Hardware Found By Ex-Mossad Investigators; Super Micro Shares Plunge

A major US telecommunications company found "manipulated" hardware from Super Micro Computer Inc. in its network in August - bolstering claims in a Bloomberg report last week alleging that China installed bugging devices on hardware bought by Apple, Amazon and a host of other companies.

According to a new report by Bloomberg, the unnamed telecom company hired former Israeli Intelligence Corps security expert Yossi Appleboum, now of Maryland-based Sepio Systems, who provided "documents, analysis and other evidence of the discovery" following last week's report detailing how China's intelligence agencies had ordered subcontractors to install malicious chips in Super Micro motherboards between 2013 and 2015.

Bloomberg is not identifying the company due to Appleboum’s nondisclosure agreement with the client. Unusual communications from a Supermicro server and a subsequent physical inspection revealed an implant built into the server’s Ethernet connector, a component that's used to attach network cables to the computer, Appleboum said. -Bloomberg

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... cro-shares

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 10 Oct 2018 15:57

uddu wrote:https://www.bgr.in/news/utraq-indias-ow ... -launched/
These are GPS receivers Modules based on IRNSS supported by GAGAN/NaviC signals, designed using L5 and S bands. It is owned by Ramakrishna Electro Component & manufactured by Shanghai Mobiletek.

Chinese manufactured product sold in India as with Made in India stamp.

Question is can Shanghai mobiletek shut it down during war on all devices using utraq module? That will defeat the purpose of IRNSS other than for military purpose.

Since it is an RF receiver, one could easily imsgine a hack built in for a specific frequency that when received shuts down the module/chip.

Thus in any war with China, millions of vehicles and vessels in India using this Mobiletek designed and manufactured GPS module for navigation would be stranded.

Hell China is already building in hardware spyware into boards and chips it exports to the US for backdoor access and sabotage.

Govt is meanwhile still asleep on the issue allowing it's usage in products by the millions.

chola · Post by **chola** » 10 Oct 2018 16:10

Intels:
https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status/10 ... 6991719424

The AG600, their big arse seaplane, just made its maiden flight from water.

https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status/10 ... 2646369280

Their latest J-10C variant operating with the 131st Air Brigade assigned to the PLA’s Western Command bordering Bharat.

Note the colorful nose and tail art reminiscent of US aircraft from the 1970s. Not going to lie, the J-10 is beautiful — topnotch TFTA Israeli design.

nam · Post by **nam** » 10 Oct 2018 16:43

Don't think the J10C is taking off from tibet. 3 drop tanks and 4 missile (average 250kg around a ton).

Drop tanks means, it needs to travel long distance to reach it's target.

If it is taking off from tibet, it would be interesting to geolocate it and analysis which part of the runway is the picture shot. Will tell us how long it took to take up to the sky.

chola · Post by **chola** » 10 Oct 2018 16:52

^^^ Their Western Command is very large in area. So yes Namji, not necessarily in Tibet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Theater_Command

nam · Post by **nam** » 10 Oct 2018 16:56

Apparently these are from Southern theatre.

https://3w.huanqiu.com/a/f5c445/7GRsvRCcnPG?agt=8

Google translated the page, using Chrome.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 10 Oct 2018 17:06

chola wrote:Not going to lie, the J-10 is beautiful — topnotch TFTA Israeli design.

chola · Post by **chola** » 10 Oct 2018 17:23

nam wrote:Apparently these are from Southern theatre.

https://3w.huanqiu.com/a/f5c445/7GRsvRCcnPG?agt=8

Google translated the page, using Chrome.

Namji, you’re right. It also said J-10B instead of J-10C. And nothing about the 131st just “some air brigade.”

I blame the tweeter!

Actually, the chini watchers commmunity reads between the lines from official chicommie press. They figured out the air brigade from the serial number. And the 131st is Western Command. Also the extra blade antenna makes it a C instead of the B variant.

So you’ve a choice between the CCP’s press or the international chini watchers community.

nam · Post by **nam** » 10 Oct 2018 18:32

chola wrote:Namji, you’re right. It also said J-10B instead of J-10C. And nothing about the 131st just “some air brigade.”

I blame the tweeter!

Actually, the chini watchers commmunity reads between the lines from official chicommie press. They figured out the air brigade from the serial number. And the 131st is Western Command. Also the extra blade antenna makes it a C instead of the B variant.

So you’ve a choice between the CCP’s press or the international chini watchers community.

It could be from the western command. Might require some effort, however it should be possible to id the airbase. Not may airbases will have mountains right next to it.

Chinis seem to prefer flying the flanker clones in Tibet. Dual engine versus one. Moreover they don't have many airbases in tibet. so patrol flights need to cover large areas.

I would be really surprised to see a J10 with such a load taking off in Tibet.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Oct 2018 18:39

LPH Kaga and a DDG visiting Vizag for joint exercise . kaga will probably get JSF-B at some point the ones equipped with TBMD sensors and ability to fly forward and provide network cues to ships further back.

as with most JMSDF ships, neat and beautiful

deep saazish / scheming against the dragon - japan would have best intel on chinese naval capabilities and tactics.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 11 Oct 2018 11:35

how real their stealth claims are remain to be seen
but they sure are churning out new angled shaped aircrafts.

------

Imminent Trial Flights Expected Of Chinese Stealth Bomber - "Deterrence To Our Enemies"

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... ur-enemies

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Oct 2018 11:41

It will be low observable for sure, may not super stealth.

If this does not wake up our jokers, nothing will. We are still dilly dallying with AMCA funding & prototype.

chola · Post by **chola** » 11 Oct 2018 11:49

^^^ Could be just 50-cent BS. But a lot of their ‘20 rumors turned out real — J-20, Y-20, Z-20. In general, nearly all of their recent rumors turn out legit from the second stealth fighter FC-31 to their carriers and new destroyers. Their propaganda department slow leak to create an audience. If rumors don’t pan out then they lose the audience.

Here is another of dee latest dhoti-shivering blockbusters.

From chini section on PukesDF, regarding the next gen carrier fighter. It won’t be the FC-31 but something larger. As always the engines are a problem but zee chinis have solutions in WS-13E and WS-19. These are RF-33/Kaveri class medium engines for a smaller aircraft than the J-15:

they chose conventional config, and slightly larger size compared to FC-31, and it will use the latest radars, weapons, avionics, optics, stealth coating, design and manufacturing tools to make sure it can dominate future sea and sky ... the only draw back is the engine, they will use WS-13E at the begining, T/W ratio 8.5 ... and WS-19 (T/W ratio is over 10) will be ready around the same time as WS-15, maybe a bit earlier ...

WS-13E's mass production has already started

Even if just hot air from paper dlagon, I want us to use this as a kick in the pants for the new Kaveri and NLCA and AMCA projects.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Oct 2018 11:55

It looks with some LO changes based off british V-bomber troika of 60s victor valiant vulcan

No tail fins is a big surprise the b2 is rather sluggish

I have no doubt it is real

nam · Post by **nam** » 11 Oct 2018 12:01

Chinis are putting serious financial muscle behind their projects. Once they cross the technical threshold, it is difficult to dislodge them. Case in point in Russia. Even the Soviet union meltdown, did not destroy their weapon tech base.

In our case, this can be a kick in the pants... if we have something in the pants.

We are usually busy with tv and politics.

On the topic of bombers, this could negate some of the disadvantage they have in Tibet. Large load, LO and range covers the drawbacks. With long rage LDP, they could stay in air and targets our positions on the mountains.

We need serious investment in countering LO platforms.