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China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Zynda » 15 Nov 2017 18:40

After FAA, Chinese now sign a deal with EU where their commercial aerospace certification standards are now recognized. So if a Chinese product is designed to comply with Chinese regulatory standards, then their product automatically comply (with minimal paperwork) with both FAA & EASA regulations. Not sure even if Russians ever enjoyed such "perks". This apart from Bombardier, Boeing, Airbus rushing in to establish Assy plants & Engineering centres in China. Good for them...

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 15 Nov 2017 22:47

Zynda wrote:After FAA, Chinese now sign a deal with EU where their commercial aerospace certification standards are now recognized. So if a Chinese product is designed to comply with Chinese regulatory standards, then their product automatically comply (with minimal paperwork) with both FAA & EASA regulations. Not sure even if Russians ever enjoyed such "perks". This apart from Bombardier, Boeing, Airbus rushing in to establish Assy plants & Engineering centres in China. Good for them...



The EASA agreement was a given after the FAA. The chinis will pull the Russians in through the back door via the C929 joint venture (obviously this entailed more TOT from Russia for this favor.)

In order for the C919 (and C929) to land anywhere in the developed world (NA, EU, Japan, Soko, Taiwan) the FAA was critical. Everything else comes after the US opened its gates. Otherwise, even chini airlines can’t use the COMAC outside Cheen. Now, they could.

It is a matter of time before COMAC becomes a competitor with both Airbus and Boeing plants set up locally, ToT up the yingyang from the Russians too and a government that is going to give local products business no matter what.

The Euros and Amreekis are gambling Boeing’s and Airbus’ duopoly for chini moola. They would never have done it if the PRC didn’t leverage their market.

Will we do the same when our market reaches similar status?
https://m.timesofindia.com/business/india-business/indias-aviation-market-to-be-third-largest-by-27/articleshow/61601986.cms

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Zynda » 15 Nov 2017 23:04

On the C929, most of the design work will apparently be done in Russia and as expected, mass production being Chinese forte, the production component will be happening in China. I don't know how much of design ToT will flow from Russia to China. My thought process is that Russia even though has vast experience in aircraft design, has lagging behind due to finances and in turn have lost a lot of market/image not to mention an opportunity to do catch up in technology and hence produce really contemporary efficient products. Given the Chinese determination to throw insane amounts of money if required to catch up, it won't take them long before they are very close to Russian level of competence if ToT happens. Russia probably knows this and my guess is very little design ToT will flow in to China...which means that Chinese will have to do some "hard work" before reaching a competence level where in their indigenous products are taken seriously by customers worldwide.

I guess wrt Chinese, most of the airframe orders happen in bulk and most of the airlines are state owned and thus Chinese govt has control over purchases quantities & amount and hence a better negotiating power over OEMs regarding offsets etc.

In India, it would be challenging to enforce the above since most private operators would be ordering airframes individually. One way I can think of is to bring in a mandate by GoI stating that any new airframe order exceeding a certain amount should include offsets either Engineering, production and/or maintenance work to India (of course there will be loop holes which both OEMs & operators will try to explore & exploit...).

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 15 Nov 2017 23:23

^^^ If they are building in Cheen and not screwdrivering parts together (which is unlikely after C919) then ToT has to be passed onto the chinis to first build and then assemble those components.

The Russians still have experience that Cheen lacks, especially in jumbo size ac. Which is the only reason why they would go joint venture after the C919.

It is a given the chinis will learn from this.

Now, there is nothing to stop the GOI from calling and leading a consortium to negotiate purchase. This is done all the time even in the US and in markets such as drugs and network infrastructure. The GOI is far more so socialist in its actions than the USA. But it never seems to make good use of the more advantageous tenets of socialism.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 15 Nov 2017 23:34

^^^ Thinking more about it, the GOI hadn’t made good use of the best of a free market democracy either!

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 16 Nov 2017 11:16

Chinis are going full-bore into hypersonics. They are building another massive wind tunnel. And they are testing continuously with their JF12 wind tunnel.

The chinis and amreekis are separating themselves from the rest of the world in the field because they are the ones with the unlimited printing press to build these things.

We are reaching a state where leading edge technology and science require so much infrastructure and lead time that they can be taken up only by those with the money and the political will to spend for years or decades.

http://www.todayonline.com/world/china-builds-worlds-fastest-wind-tunnel-test-weapons-could-strike-us-within-minutes


China builds world’s fastest wind tunnel to test weapons that could strike US within minutes


BEIJING — China is building the world’s fastest wind tunnel to simulate hypersonic flight at speeds of up to 12 kilometres per second.

A hypersonic vehicle flying at this speed from China could reach the west coast of the United States in less than 14 minutes.

Mr Zhao Wei, a senior scientist working on the project, said researchers aimed to have the facility up and running by around 2020 to meet the pressing demand of China’s hypersonic weapon development programme.

“It will boost the engineering application of hypersonic technology, mostly in military sectors, by duplicating the environment of extreme hypersonic flights, so problems can be discovered and solved on the ground,” said Mr Zhao, a deputy director of the State Key Laboratory of High Temperature Gas Dynamics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing.

...

The world’s most powerful wind tunnel at present is America’s LENX-X facility in Buffalo, New York state, which operates at speeds of up to 10 kilometres per second – 30 times the speed of sound.

Hypersonic aircraft are defined as vehicles that travel of speeds of Mach 5, five times the speed of sound, or above.

...

the construction of the new facility would be led by the same team that built JF12, a hypervelocity denotation-driven shock tunnel in Beijing capable of duplicating flight conditions at speeds ranging from Mach 5 to Mach 9 at altitudes between 20 and 50 kilometres.

Mr Jiang Zonglin, lead developer of the JF12, won the annual Ground Test Award issued by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics last year for advancing “state-of-the-art large-scale hypersonic test facilities”.

Mr Jiang’s JF12 design “uses no moving parts and generates a longer test-duration and a higher energy flow than more traditionally designed tunnels”, according to the American institute.

According to state media reports, the JF12 tunnel has been operating at full capacity with a new test every two days since its completion in 2012 as the pace of hypersonic weapon development increased significantly in recent years.

...

“With practical hypersonic aeroplanes, a two-hour flight to anywhere in the world will be possible” while the cost of space travel could be cut by 99 per cent with reusable spacecraft technology, Mr Jiang wrote.

“Hypersonic flight is, and in the foreseeable future will be, the driver of national security, and civilian transportation and space access,” he added.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 17 Nov 2017 16:39

J-31 second prototype test flight.

Image

Image

Image

The bottom is smooth as a baby’s arse.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 17 Nov 2017 16:57

Basic stealth design? Comparison with the AMCA, TFX and KFX respectively:

Image

Image

Image

All four look damned alike. The chinis got theirs off the block early with rooskie engines.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 17 Nov 2017 17:40

All of them look quite like the F22. But with compromises on rear aspect. I have read that shaping (with the correct angles) is a very important aspect towards stealth but composition of materials, RAM coating, quality/smoothness of finish and EMCOM are important too. How close will these come to Khan levels in those areas will be crucial.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 17 Nov 2017 18:15

Yup. F-22 is still the standard. The vectoring/variable shielding mechanism for the engines looks to be too challenging or expensive since none of the four followers are attempting it.

Would be interesting to follow and see how each of the four turns out. Cheen might be first but I have my money on the KFX over the long haul. The Koreans are fast growing in the aviation field with their T/FA-50 selling to Indonesia, Thailand, Iraq, Philippines, etc. even that was their first major jet project.

The Turks are a very interesting industry that sort of just exploded in the past years. Not as established as the Koreans, whom like the Japanese and chinis, you can expect competencies in tech and manufacturing but the the T129 attack heli has been run pretty well with first flight in 2009 leading to induction just five years later. Pakis are said to want this attack copter over the Z-10 being offered at fliendship prices. Like the Koreans, the Turks also got their start screwdrivering F-Solas.

It would be a sad day if the TFX beats the AMCA to the finishing line though.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 17 Nov 2017 18:32

Agree.

But like you have so often pointed out, AMCA just need to be able to beat the Chinese.

S Korea for sure and Turkey to a reasonable extent do not seem to be our problems in the near future.

As for the Pakis.. well by that time they would well be a colony or a paw (like NoKo) of the chinese.

So AMCA when it comes would have to face Chinese Tier 1 stuff on the Eastern side and Tier 2 stuff on the Western side

The stuff being AD systems and not just opponent aircraft engaging each other in jousts in the skies :-)
Last edited by Manish_P on 17 Nov 2017 20:46, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 17 Nov 2017 18:36

chola wrote:J-31 second prototype test flight.

Image

Image

Image

The bottom is smooth as a baby’s arse.


Larger Wetted Surface area leads to more drag , J-31 design is very conventional in its approach when it comes to design nothing can go wrong there but there is no novelty too , Atleast with J-20 they attempted with all moving after tail and all moving canard.

The Smooth Bottom as a babys arse would also present the maximum RF returns for any ground based radar

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 17 Nov 2017 21:50

Manish_P wrote:Agree.

But like you have so often pointed out, AMCA just need to be able to beat the Chinese.

S Korea for sure and Turkey to a reasonable extent do not seem to be our problems in the near future.


Not worried overly about fighting Cheen either. The chins are not warriors. Far more worried about what would happen if there were NO war and their MIC continues to flood the gray zones.

Let’s face it, large powers almost never go to war and haven’t since WWII.

Competing MICs is why I see SoKo and Turkey as rivals in the global arms market not as actual foes. If the TFX comes out first and establishes markets in the middle income nations (like SoKo has already done with the T/FA-50) then we fall behind Turkey in the global arms hierarchy. Geo-politically, that will play far worse than being behind Cheen.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 17 Nov 2017 22:05

Austin wrote:
Larger Wetted Surface area leads to more drag , J-31 design is very conventional in its approach when it comes to design nothing can go wrong there but there is no novelty too , Atleast with J-20 they attempted with all moving after tail and all moving canard.


Yes. That is why I thought it was interestng to see all four of these stealth fighters being so similar. The basic stealth configuration.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 17 Nov 2017 22:06

chola wrote:Not worried overly about fighting Cheen either. The chins are not warriors. Far more worried about what would happen if there were NO war and their MIC continues to flood the gray zones. The art of fighting without fighting. Now was that Sun Tzu or Kung fu? :mrgreen:
Let’s face it, large powers almost never go to war and haven’t since WWII. They try and use their client states to do it

Competing MICs is why I see SoKo and Turkey as rivals in the global arms market not as actual foes. If the TFX comes out first and establishes markets in the middle income nations (like SoKo has already done with the T/FA-50) then we fall behind Turkey in the global arms hierarchy. Geo-politically, that will play far worse than being behind Cheen. Agree. But let's first get our MIC up and running to serve our needs before we even think of export markets

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kartik » 18 Nov 2017 00:55

Dubai Air Show- AVIC showcases Chinese UAS flexibility but short endurance



A family of jet-powered Cloud Shadow unmanned air systems displayed at the Dubai air show offer a potent mix of high-altitude intelligence-gathering and weapons capabilities – but unusually short endurance, according to specifications released by AVIC.

AVIC’s design philosophy breaks from the multi-mission approach used for many Western UAS designs. Each of the three variants in the Cloud Shadow family is optimised for a single role, in the form of the imagery-collecting CS-1, electronic-eavesdropping CS-2 and the hunter-killer CS-3.

A slide presentation that played on a loop on AVIC’s stand at the show revealed key details of each variant’s capabilities and performance.

Overall, the Cloud Shadow’s maximum altitude and range place the family at the top of AVIC’s portfolio of exportable UAS products, which also include the medium-altitude Wing Loong family and the low-altitude A-Hawk I and II quadcopters. The Cloud Shadow is designed to fly at 340kt (630km/h) and cruise at altitudes from 41,000-42,600ft, AVIC says.

But the aircraft’s endurance falls far short of the 10-30h endurance of most competitors in the high-altitude, long-endurance or medium-altitude, long-endurance market. The intelligence-gathering CS-1 and CS-2 variants are listed with a 6h endurance. The weapons-carrying CS-3 can operate up to 5h at a time, AVIC says.

A clue to the Cloud Shadow’s relatively short endurance is AVIC’s choice of engine. The company says the UAS family is powered by the WP-11C turbojet. According to GlobalSecurity.org, the WP-11C is derived from a 1950s-era French engine, which originally powered the Fouga Magister. Turbomeca sold a manufacturing license to Teledyne CAE to build the engine as the J69 for the US Air Force, and China reportedly acquired J69s after recovering jet-powered Ryan Firebee drones operating over Vietnam.


AVIC also claims that the Cloud Shadow family has some ability to operate undetected within contested airspace, as it has an “electromagnetic silent” mode.


WP-11C derived from 1950's era French engine and now powering Chinese UAS.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 18 Nov 2017 03:47

^^^ Yes and look at their WP-13 turbojet too. Not to mention the WJ-6 and WJ-9 turboprops.

And then look at how they went after the pistons.

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/unmanned-aerial-vehicles-in-china/

in 2011 of Continental Motors the second largest manufacturer of piston engines. But it was the acquisition of Cirrus, an iconic general aviation aircraft manufacturer, which caught the industry’s attention. Cirrus has delivered nearly 5,000 new pistons airplanes


They develop their own variants of foreign engines from pistons to turbofans to hit every segment of the aviation market. The ability to power anything is what gave them an ecosystem for an endless variety of drones.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 25 Nov 2017 17:13

A few interesting pieces, possible intel:

Jet powered UAV at their carrier testing center; supposedly called Cloud Shadow to be launched from their EMALS
Image

Another J-31 test flight; these are coming with increasing frequency; finally official interest, possibly from PLA Navy? Also smokeless engines supposedly indicates new RD-33 variant or chini WS-13E.
https://mobile.twitter.com/user/status/934044648183537664

Supposedly AESA developed for JF-17 on flying testbed (a Y-7 variant); pakis going gaga about “block 3”:
Image

Finally, this stupid little cartoon is riling up the fanboys at the PDF chini mil watch:
Image

Apparently, the PRC gives its faithful hints of the future in comic form. The chinese caption says “Big Brother’s Chrysanthemum (apparently an eupremism for arsehole) is velly powerful.”

Some of the faithful says this is the super-duper WS-10 variant on the latest J-20; others point to the angled arsehole on the cartoon J-10 and say this the TVC WS-15 being tested on a J-10C. Suffice to say, the AL-31 that powers ALL frontline J-10s leaves them feeling vulnerable to Roos’ whims so this would be big news.

This kind of slow leaks always ends with a photo or two released soon after. There is always a payoff or in American pawn terminology, there is always a climax-inducing money shot.

It does make chini watching fun.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 26 Nov 2017 19:01

For those with access, Sean O'Connor, Principal Research and Imagery Analyst over at IHS Jane's will be leading a live briefing on China's strategic SAM forces on November 30th of this year.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 27 Nov 2017 23:09

If there is anything that I dhoti shiver about — it would not be the the stealth fighters , it would be this:

Image

Image

Two satellite pictures of Xian, the first from May and the second September. New aircraft are in yellow primer. They show that the chinis are producing a lot of force multipliers off of copies of the 1950s An-12 turboprop platform.

KJ-500 is their mass produced AWACS. Y-8Q is MPA/ASW.

If we only had the RTA up and running. There is so much that can be done with a propeller craft big enough to carry an useful load over range. We built a lot of USSR planes but surprisingly we never brought the An-32 inhouse during the 1980s. It would have been an induction into larger aircraft and would have given us a good platform for all sorts of surveillance craft.

Our Phalcon project is held up by Russians demanding an arm and both legs for the fourth and fifth Il-76 platforms.

Cheen had an issue with getting Il-76s too. But they have an ancient workhorse they can fall back on.

Gaps like this are much worse than the ones with fighters, IMHO. A medium turboprop transport should well be within our technology level. It needn’t be the best on market. Just something we can make and put stuff on.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 28 Nov 2017 20:30

As expected, some internal purging going on

Top Chinese general under investigation for corruption hangs himself

A top Chinese general hanged himself after coming under investigation for corruption charges, China's state-run news agency Xinhua reported Tuesday. General Zhang Yang, the former head of the Chinese military's political work department, was found dead at his home on November 23, the news agency said. Military investigators had launched an investigation into Zhang's ties to two former Central Military Commission vice chairmen -- Guo Boxiong and Xu Caihou -- who fell prey to President Xi Jinping's massive anti-corruption campaign.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 28 Nov 2017 22:24

KC390 of Embraer would have been our MTA and platform for any of this.
but we hung our hopes on russi MTA and got nothing. HAL went along for the ride as their workshare was guaranteed with all the science done and manuals only to be translated from russian.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Zynda » 29 Nov 2017 00:13

So a Chinese software simulation developer has been creating FC-17/JF-17 add-on for the game Digital Combat Simulator (DCS). Here is a thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=186743&page=10

I dunno which BLock or Variant is being simulated but surprising move by China to allow this product to be developed. Didn't the TSP object such a project? The game/product may never simulate the avionics, systems 100% but still...DCS folks wanted to do a Su-27SM but RuAF/Russians did not provide permission as it is an active aircraft.

Sorry for posting this OT here.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby VinodTK » 29 Nov 2017 04:34

Asia Times: China Fears an Indian ‘Stab in the Back’ if it Goes to War with Taiwan
Things are cooling off on the Doklam plateau as the cold season begins on the unchartered borders shared by China, India and Bhutan.

This region, part of an eastward extension of the Himalayan range, was the scene of a bitter standoff between the Chinese and Indian militaries in a territorial row a few months ago.

Luckily, rationality prevailed as Beijing and New Delhi sought to avoid an internecine showdown, although nationalist sentiment was stoked in both countries.


Chinese troops participate in a winter drill in Tibet. Photo: Xinhua
Both sides have to back down when frigid weather seals off the plateau, but the feud is still simmering.

For New Delhi, it was obvious that Beijing’s fortification of the border area – including widening a road for the People’s Liberation Army, which sparked the tension – had endangered its national security. That is because Doklam is close to the Siliguri Corridor, aka the Chicken’s Neck, a vital strip just 27 kilometers wide at its narrowest, that links its eastern states to the rest of India.

Via Google MapsDoklam’s proximity to India’s eastern states is shown on this Google Map.
Beijing’s motive, other than beefing up its military buildup in Tibet, has much to do with the question of Taiwan.

Hong Kong-based military commentator Andrei Chang noted in a column that Beijing is deeply concerned that India might “stab it in the back” if it sends troops in a southeast direction to reclaim Taiwan, should the renegade island declare independence.

The PLA would have to fight two wars – one in front and a second at the rear – should New Delhi, which has never been amicable with Beijing, take the opportunity to pick a fight on the Chinese border.

Roughly 80% of the PLA’s exercises and drills over the years simulate sea and air attacks, plus ground maneuvers, to reclaim Taiwan, as well as fending off involvement of the United States and its Asian allies, Chang said, while the remaining 20% have related to possible conflicts with India in a harsh high-altitude environment.

Last month, regiments in the PLA’s Western Theater Command, who patrol the Indian-Tibetan border, had a large drill in a craggy plateau to test the war readiness of its soldiers and weaponry in frigid weather conditions, the PLA Daily reported.


With Beijing and New Delhi still lacking mutual trust and regarding the other as a threat to border security, the Doklam plateau and the rest of the 3,380km border have become a militarized strip, where both sides continue to pile up troops and ammunition.

Observers say if Beijing resumes efforts to widen the road at Doklam in spring next year, New Delhi will deploy more guided missiles along the border.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby yensoy » 29 Nov 2017 11:14

What's with Chinese Generals' ribbons? Look at these 3 guys, they each have exactly 7 rows of ribbons and all rows are complete. It also appears that many of the patterns repeat.

Image

Contrast this with our Generals, for instance

Image

He has "only" 3 and a half rows of ribbons. Does that mean that the Chinese Generals have twice the experience of Indian Generals? :rotfl:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 30 Nov 2017 17:43

Zynda wrote:So a Chinese software simulation developer has been creating FC-17/JF-17 add-on for the game Digital Combat Simulator (DCS). Here is a thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=186743&page=10

I dunno which BLock or Variant is being simulated but surprising move by China to allow this product to be developed. Didn't the TSP object such a project? The game/product may never simulate the avionics, systems 100% but still...DCS folks wanted to do a Su-27SM but RuAF/Russians did not provide permission as it is an active aircraft.

Sorry for posting this OT here.



The JF-17 is an export craft for the Pakis as well as Cheen. Any advertisement is good for it. Pretty much everyone knows its capability (or lack of) when PLAAF refused to touch that thing with an extra long pair of chopsticks. So having it in a game might entice some a tinpot general playing it in Africa or Latin America to order a half dozen.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 30 Nov 2017 19:25

Singha wrote:KC390 of Embraer would have been our MTA and platform for any of this.
but we hung our hopes on russi MTA and got nothing. HAL went along for the ride as their workshare was guaranteed with all the science done and manuals only to be translated from russian.


Singha ji, the KC390, with high performance and fuel efficient turbofans (to hit civilian market as well) is a whole level of sophistication higher than we need if going by the PRC example.

The chinis built at least three variants of AEW/AWACS along with countless SIGINT, MPA, ASW and other specialty craft because they have two old turboprop platforms they can build and power on their own — the Y-8 An-12 copy as well as the Y-7 An-24 copy. The An-24 is the ancient ancestor of the 100 or so An-32s we use which is itself is no spring chicken since it is up for retirement. We’ve flew derivatives of both these planes since the 1970s!

So it is a matter of just having something we can make at hand.

To be perfectly honest, it saddens me that we need to import a small regional jet from Brazil for the Netra. Not knocking Embraer since without doubt it is the greatest aerospace firm outside the West and Russia. But a An-32 sized or smaller turboprop is something that we could have used. And could have and should have built or at least planned to build years ago. If only to replace the An-32 itself.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kashi » 01 Dec 2017 06:07

yensoy wrote:What's with Chinese Generals' ribbons? Look at these 3 guys, they each have exactly 7 rows of ribbons and all rows are complete. It also appears that many of the patterns repeat.

Does that mean that the Chinese Generals have twice the experience of Indian Generals? :rotfl:


Still nothing on the generals of the "best Korea"

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby rkhanna » 07 Dec 2017 13:49

China is replacing the QBZ95 with a new rifle.

Image

And following the trend looks like there is going to be a 10"-11" PDW/Carbine version as well for SOF/MOUT troops

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Dec 2017 14:31

^^^ That is pretty funny. The chinis were among the earlier advocates for the bull-pup (along with the Brits and the Frenchies.) They issued it into their regular infantry. Unkil and Ivan, though, hated it.

Now the PLA is going back to a conventional design lol. Glad the IA missed that so-called technological leap.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 07 Dec 2017 15:15

Hong Kong-based military commentator Andrei Chang noted in a column that Beijing is deeply concerned that India might “stab it in the back” if it sends troops in a southeast direction to reclaim Taiwan, should the renegade island declare independence.

The PLA would have to fight two wars – one in front and a second at the rear – should New Delhi, which has never been amicable with Beijing, take the opportunity to pick a fight on the Chinese border.


:D Don't know if this just an opinion or the actual Chini thought process. This is exactly our trump card.

We are behind and under the belly of the dragon. Chinis have put in massive resources to take on a tiny island and now it has the world's largest army on it's "back". The Chinis showed their card in Dolam. The "quad" is now the in-thing, because Chinis would have to allocate large part of their forces on the roof in defensive position.

Pakis have Afghanistan and Iran on it's back.

Did someone say only India has to worry about a two front war.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby rkhanna » 07 Dec 2017 17:11

chola wrote:^^^ That is pretty funny. The chinis were among the earlier advocates for the bull-pup (along with the Brits and the Frenchies.) They issued it into their regular infantry. Unkil and Ivan, though, hated it.

Now the PLA is going back to a conventional design lol. Glad the IA missed that so-called technological leap.



And the irony is that outside of Gun range and choreographed "military exercises" this gun has never seen operational use

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby sudhan » 07 Dec 2017 20:36

rkhanna wrote:

And the irony is that outside of Gun range and choreographed "military exercises" this gun has never seen operational use


Neither those guns nor their wielders have seen operational experience outside these simulated exercises..

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nits » 07 Dec 2017 20:59

Kashi wrote:
yensoy wrote:What's with Chinese Generals' ribbons? Look at these 3 guys, they each have exactly 7 rows of ribbons and all rows are complete. It also appears that many of the patterns repeat.

Does that mean that the Chinese Generals have twice the experience of Indian Generals? :rotfl:


Still nothing on the generals of the "best Korea"

Image


That reminds me of band baja barat :lol:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 09 Dec 2017 17:35

PRC’s large plane capacity is picking up. Potential force multipliers. Conversely, we have no large plane experience at all. This is a very bad gap which should never have happened, IMHO.

New C-130 class Y-9 transport operational after flying them on airdrop mission into the Indo-Chini Sea:
http://www.janes.com/article/76129/plaaf-declares-y-9-transport-aircraft-fully-operational
Image

Ramp-up production of their MD-80 ripoff, the ARJ-21:
Image

COMAC has an US twitter account; f—ing stodgy commie PSU does better social media than HAL,ADA and the rest of our PSUs; the second #C919 (B-001C) is scheduled to take its first flight on Friday, December 15th:
https://mobile.twitter.com/user/status/936664994216677376

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 09 Dec 2017 22:13

https://twitter.com/majorgauravarya/sta ... 6497639424 —> This is what Chinese investment is all about. Lend huge sums of money & when country cannot pay back, grab their land. In Sri Lanka it’s a port. In Pakistan, it’s the entire country. China will own Hambantota Port for 99 years. Wait for Chinese Navy, now.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby VinodTK » 11 Dec 2017 01:11

China Is Now Making Some of the Most Powerful Guns on the Planet

Like the rest of China’s military revolution over the past quarter century, its small-arms revolution is a remarkable achievement.

China Is Now Making Some of the Most Powerful Guns on the Planet
China’s People’s Liberation Army has traditionally relied on foreign and Communist bloc weapons manufactured in China under license—or not. Now, however, as the PLA undergoes an unprecedented modernization, a new generation of locally designed and manufactured light weaponry is arming China’s armed forces, from handguns to light machine guns.

China’s first modern, locally designed and produced assault rifle is the QBZ-95, currently standard issue across the People’s Liberation Army and China’s internal security force, the People’s Armed Police. The weapon first entered Chinese service in the mid-1990s. The QBZ-95​ is a so-called “bullpup” rifle, meaning the trigger and fire-control group are placed ahead of the magazine, which is inserted into the rifle stock.

Typical of bullpup rifles, the QBZ has a twenty-inch barrel but an overall length of just under thirty inches. This gives it a longer barrel, and slightly longer range and velocity against the American M4 carbine, while at the same time having an overall length three inches shorter than the American gun. The downside of the bullpup design is a fixed length of pull that is not adjustable to a user’s unique arm length and the lack of a viable left-handed shooting ability.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 11 Dec 2017 12:33

Going back to a conventional rifle immediately without the QBZ-95 firing a single shot in anger pretty much reveals failure of the chini bullpup concept.

The last conventional PRC rifle, Type 81, has a fairly decent reputation and was used extensively in Africa and Sri Lanka. The QBZ-95 was not exported anywhere I don’t think.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby rkhanna » 11 Dec 2017 13:48

^^ Except the Civvie market in North America.

BTW history channel india is advertising a documentary on Chinese Special Forces and selling it with the Doklam backdrop "Know your enemy" lol

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 12 Dec 2017 02:24

Fresh pictures of Cheen’s new capability in beeg planes.

One new Y-20 out in primer in Xian:
Image

Another is painted:
Image

Note the Russian D-30KP turbofan. Without a Russian engine this critical Chini program would be dead on the ground. With it, they now have a platform for a whole chitload of possibilities including a Phalcom sized AWACS and a high altitude satellite launch system.

https://futurism.com/china-is-making-futuristic-space-rockets-that-launch-from-planes/amp/

So velly nice of Ivan and Natasha. While supplying the engines to Y-20, Russia is holding our third and fourth Phalcon hostage by blackmailing us over the IL-76. Velly nice people Ivan and Natasha.


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