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China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ranjan.rao
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ranjan.rao » 10 Apr 2017 20:14

Oh ok..too much "sugar" in the tea just got me high like the "opium"

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 10 Apr 2017 22:28

A chinese naval vessel worked with an IN vessel against pirates this week btw. Off the african coast.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ranjan.rao » 11 Apr 2017 00:19

and they forgot to give IN credit for its role

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 11 Apr 2017 20:09

chola wrote:
Liu wrote:

the low cost of chinese industry section means china industry can pruduce more weapons that USA's ,with the same defence expenditure.

so,USA has no chance to win a quantity race with china.

if USA can not keep its tech edge on china( now china seems to catch up rapidly),USA would be in a hopeless stuation .


The cost is also the function of infrastructure and the chinks actually went and set up an insane infrastructure in building shit so it is not necessary or desirable to out compete someone using half the world's steel.

Rather than wait until the PRC can build enough shit to cover the Indo-Pacific, you go on the offensive with your own strength which kinetic firepower and a base of experience a thousand times what China has now.

The American pivot is designed to pressure a fight and then it would be game over for China. Once war is in motion then everything built by China in the last three decades will be gone within a week. And that includes its infrastructure since the American plan involves strike up and down the Chinese coasts.

At that point, you will hope that China collapses completely and absolutely so that the Americans came come in and rebuild you to their image like Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.

If not, China will be bombed back to North Korea level and then kept there for decades by naval blockade. The trade you needed to build up that infrastructure the first time will no longer be there.

So the question is: Will you be able take the American military waving a red flag right on your borders?

Will you take their pissing and shitting on your face? Will you be their faggot as they proverbially bend you over in your house and fvck China in its ass?

You know, if you can take this sodomy and just build and build and build you would win. But taking and eating American shit on your own doorstep means you will have no manhood, no pride. No face.

I think the young nationalist chinis might not be able to take it.

To take being fvcked in the arse by the American pivot. Around Hainan. In the Taiwan Strait. Off your fake islands.

And then they will lash out when the US recognizes Taiwan and declare her an independent state in front of your eyes.

And with that, what could have been the greatest industrial power in the modern world, one that once used up half the world's steel and cement, is gone in a flash of American kinetics.


I don't believe this type of language is allowed on this board, but the simple answer is yes. There's an ancient story of a Chinese prince being held hostage literally eating his captor's feces to prove his loyalty, biding his time until he took revenge. After all, the most famous of the 36 stratagems of Sun-Tzu is to run. Don't fight a war you can't win.

http://chinese-wisdom-story.blogspot.com/ First story

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 11 Apr 2017 20:35

chetak wrote:
Singha wrote:Taiwan has 2 ancient dutch subs and is moving around from eu capital to capital with a begging bowl for tech pieces for its local sub ssk as none will sell them. Tokyo has also rejected any tech for subs. Neither will russia.

If they were less arrogant and more smart would approach india for a jv on the p75i thing...

Lpd lph progs are no concern of purs but we need to watch their sub radar asbm and sam projects very carefully


If we need to do this we cannot get into new build and transfer.

We need to quickly & quietly train crews and transfer two existing subs in one fell swoop as a fait accompli before the hans react.

the hans have a new carrier commissioning shortly and another new build coming up very quickly.


That Taiwan doesn't do something as practical as that indicates a much deeper problem than inadequacies of equipment. The people there have long lost hope of winning a war against the mainland. Morale is very low in their conscript-based military, training is mostly just for show. Their ranks are infiltrated by the PLA from top to bottom, and half their economy has either become dependent on the mainland or outright moved there. There's neither will nor direction within their military, and these problems can't be fixed by equipment upgrades. I mean, just look at their recently released plans. They aim to design and build their own submarines(!!) and even LPDs(what for, to retake the mainland?), after having built nothing except corvettes since, hmmm, ever?

Their defense against a mainland invasion is deterrence from either non-military means (i.e. economic consequences) or military means via other actors (i.e. the U.S.) at areas other than the Taiwan straits (e.g. Malacca straits blockade).

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby RKumar » 11 Apr 2017 20:52

^
If China can pass nuclear weapons, missiles technologies and arms to Pakistan. We can also reply in kind, we will respond positively if Taiwan request India to provide them Arjun, LCH, ALH, LCA and various offensive as well as defensive missiles.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 11 Apr 2017 21:17

RKumar wrote:^
If China can pass nuclear weapons, missiles technologies and arms to Pakistan. We can also reply in kind, we will respond positively if Taiwan request India to provide them Arjun, LCH, ALH, LCA and various offensive as well as defensive missiles.


Not that easy. On topics such as Arunachsl Pradesh, China and Taiwan are on the same side, against India.

Not sure that there are any other such issues, but that is a big one for starters.



India and Vietnam is a far better model.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ranjan.rao » 11 Apr 2017 21:21

Imagine a nation thats screaming in a shreiking voice at just the visit of dalai lama to Tawang. How will it react when Vietnam and Taiwan are given 'defensive' weapons by India :), the fact is India hasnt even started playing the dirty game and chinese has already played many of its cards

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 13 Apr 2017 16:58

Holy crap! The chinis just launched a new Type 818 coast guard cutter based on their 4000 ton 054 frigate with two CIWS and a 76mm main gun (same goddam caliber as that on our P15A destroyers.)

Now what the hell do you think they need a cutter with this kind of armament for? Invasion by white ships instead of gray that is what. Stealing by changing facts at sea without triggering war.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 13 Apr 2017 18:13

RKumar wrote:^
If China can pass nuclear weapons, missiles technologies and arms to Pakistan. We can also reply in kind, we will respond positively if Taiwan request India to provide them Arjun, LCH, ALH, LCA and various offensive as well as defensive missiles.

taiwan's problem is not the shortage of weapons, but the fall of moral&train.

And most taiwanese accept the fact that Taiwan can not win the war against PRC, even if USA were to sell their most advanced weapons( such as F22) to taiwan,because the powers is so unbanlanced.

Thus, few taiwanese youth are ready to join amry .

Many taiwanese veterans joke on Facebook or twitters that what was discusssed among solders is how to surrender and avoid wounds,when they were in service.

since Taiwan is destined to lose the war, why resist? that is exactly the mentality of many taiwanese soldiers.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby darshhan » 13 Apr 2017 19:05

Liu wrote:
RKumar wrote:^
If China can pass nuclear weapons, missiles technologies and arms to Pakistan. We can also reply in kind, we will respond positively if Taiwan request India to provide them Arjun, LCH, ALH, LCA and various offensive as well as defensive missiles.

taiwan's problem is not the shortage of weapons, but the fall of moral&train.

And most taiwanese accept the fact that Taiwan can not win the war against PRC, even if USA were to sell their most advanced weapons( such as F22) to taiwan,because the powers is so unbanlanced.

Thus, few taiwanese youth are ready to join amry .

Many taiwanese veterans joke on Facebook or twitters that what was discusssed among solders is how to surrender and avoid wounds,when they were in service.

since Taiwan is destined to lose the war, why resist? that is exactly the mentality of many taiwanese soldiers.


Really? Is this the best logic you can come up with?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 13 Apr 2017 19:51

Salvaged parts from a North Korean rocket shows Chinese firms supplied parts.

So, what else is new?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby vasu raya » 13 Apr 2017 19:59

Pakis will be careful not to do their 'missile tests' into Arabian sea...

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Marten » 13 Apr 2017 20:01

Will the US apply sanctions on the Chinese for violating MTCR?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby vasu raya » 13 Apr 2017 20:06

at least the Chinese official denials can be brought into question and dent their MTCR prospects

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby RKumar » 13 Apr 2017 22:08

NRao wrote:Not that easy. On topics such as Arunachsl Pradesh, China and Taiwan are on the same side, against India.

Not sure that there are any other such issues, but that is a big one for starters.

India and Vietnam is a far better model.


Taiwan has to change it's policy if they want India's support. That's why effort should be from their side. Keep in mind China will make a lot of noise and we may have border skirmishes due to their arrogance. Or worst end up with major fight with their stupid munna.
Last edited by RKumar on 13 Apr 2017 22:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby RKumar » 13 Apr 2017 22:19

Liu wrote:taiwan's problem is not the shortage of weapons, but the fall of moral&train.

And most taiwanese accept the fact that Taiwan can not win the war against PRC, even if USA were to sell their most advanced weapons( such as F22) to taiwan,because the powers is so unbanlanced.

Thus, few taiwanese youth are ready to join amry .

Many taiwanese veterans joke on Facebook or twitters that what was discusssed among solders is how to surrender and avoid wounds,when they were in service.

since Taiwan is destined to lose the war, why resist? that is exactly the mentality of many taiwanese soldiers.


We can help them with moral and training everything. Let's be honest which major weapon they have purchased in last 1-2 decades. Even USA is not selling them anything's new, only keeping the existing systems running. We can be same to them what China is to Pakistan.

We already close friends of Vietnam. I think these two states can have full support. For other states, we can provide moral support but no offensive weapons. May be older defensive military technolgy stuff but not latest stuff.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Apr 2017 22:30

vasu raya wrote:at least the Chinese official denials can be brought into question and dent their MTCR prospects
India is a member of MTCR, they are not coming into it till the time India gets into NSG.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby vasu raya » 13 Apr 2017 22:43

that's true, however their claims of Indo-TSP equivalence for NSG membership is weakened if India has dirt on them proving they are in bed with Pakis, why deny yourself that opportunity and maybe India gets a reason to invest in deep water submersibles or Pakis never get to 'test' showoff long range missiles, needed for MIRV types...

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 13 Apr 2017 22:54

Ot for this thread, but, a few suggestions.

_ refloat balochistan as a nation
_ float Tibet as a nation
_ take (perhaps with another nation) the north-east of Somalia


_ and seriously consider taking Chittagong, all the way to Sitwe


PoK needs closing.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby VKumar » 13 Apr 2017 23:04

Taiwan, Vietnam, Mongolia, S. Korea, Japan - cooperate with these.
Tibet, Baluchistan - assist these
Myanmar - move it away from China

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 14 Apr 2017 02:29

vasu raya wrote:that's true, however their claims of Indo-TSP equivalence for NSG membership is weakened if India has dirt on them proving they are in bed with Pakis, why deny yourself that opportunity and maybe India gets a reason to invest in deep water submersibles or Pakis never get to 'test' showoff long range missiles, needed for MIRV types...


Somehow i get the sense that the party fireworks are saved for NDA2. By that time our IADS will up and running and close to up and running. Most of lacunae in our offensive capabilities both real & aspirational would have been closed (except IN probably). There will be more clarity on which side Bear, eagle and camels (UAE/Iran/Saudi) are.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby abhik » 16 Apr 2017 18:56

WHat does China gain by joining MRTC?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby krishGo » 17 Apr 2017 03:55

abhik wrote:WHat does China gain by joining MRTC?


One thing the Chinese might want is access to the US satellite launch market. US companies are currently banned from using Chinese launch vehicles, as satellites are classified as weapons by the DoD. There are is also a ban on using Indian launch services but unlike in the case of China, companies can get waivers on case-by-case basis. Although the ban over using Chinese launch vehicle is over and above the MTCR restrictions, China might be of the idea that they will be better placed to pressure the US to revoke the ban if they join MTCR.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby abhik » 17 Apr 2017 13:57

krishGo wrote:One thing the Chinese might want is access to the US satellite launch market. US companies are currently banned from using Chinese launch vehicles, as satellites are classified as weapons by the DoD. There are is also a ban on using Indian launch services but unlike in the case of China, companies can get waivers on case-by-case basis. Although the ban over using Chinese launch vehicle is over and above the MTCR restrictions, China might be of the idea that they will be better placed to pressure the US to revoke the ban if they join MTCR.

Satellite launch market is actually quite small and all the players are government subsidized directly or indirectly, so it's not really a lucrative business, at least for a state. Besides probably half the US launches are DoD/NASA payloads which the Chinese cannot get even in their wildest dreams.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby yensoy » 17 Apr 2017 15:48

I don't think many folks here really understand Taiwan. There is a good reason we don't have deep strategic involvement with the Taiwanese. Taiwan is China, with a different government. The Taiwanese worldview is still the same with China being at the centre of the world and other countries being supplicants/tribute states. Any military equipment sold to Taiwan is as good as given to China (as someone pointed out, PLA infiltration top down as they did with HK before its takeover). This is not a sinister conspiracy, this is just the way it is and will always be. So let's buy our cheap electronics and trade in small stuff with Taiwan and keep the relationship at that level. In fact there is more value in military exchanges with PRC itself rather than engagement with Taiwan.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Liu » 18 Apr 2017 09:04

yensoy wrote:I don't think many folks here really understand Taiwan. There is a good reason we don't have deep strategic involvement with the Taiwanese. Taiwan is China, with a different government. The Taiwanese worldview is still the same with China being at the centre of the world and other countries being supplicants/tribute states. Any military equipment sold to Taiwan is as good as given to China (as someone pointed out, PLA infiltration top down as they did with HK before its takeover). This is not a sinister conspiracy, this is just the way it is and will always be. So let's buy our cheap electronics and trade in small stuff with Taiwan and keep the relationship at that level. In fact there is more value in military exchanges with PRC itself rather than engagement with Taiwan.


Taiwan is the sole province left for the defeated side in chinese civil war.

see,
the similar case is
one day india current government were to defeated in a civil war and Andaman Islands were the sole land left for the india current government.


one day USA current government were to defeated in a civil war and Hawaii Islands were the sole state left for USA current government.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby malushahi » 18 Apr 2017 09:23

^^^
see,
the similar case is
one day PRC current government were to defeated in a civil war and Mischief Reef were the sole land left for the current PRC current government.

at which point all it would take is a MOAB to put them out of their collective misery.

------------

mods. what value is this troll bringing to any thread here?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 18 Apr 2017 09:50

Liu wrote:Taiwan is the sole province left for the defeated side in chinese civil war.

You speak with a forked tongue.

You speak of a 4000 year old huge Chinese empire. But you also start your history from Mao and the civil war he fought and refer to a defeated side.

Typical of communist party mouthpieces to refer to ancient history when convenient and commie history when convenient. Among Muslims there is the concept of 'taqiya" where people pretend to be pious Muslims in case the mullahs decide to chop off more than foreskins. There must be taqiya equivalents among the Chinese too who toe the party line for self preservation

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 18 Apr 2017 20:13

chinese claims are the Union of many Sets - each set being the territorial extent at a time t.
{1,2,3} U {1,5} U {2,6} = {1,2,3,5,6}

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kit » 18 Apr 2017 20:37

NRao wrote:
RKumar wrote:^
If China can pass nuclear weapons, missiles technologies and arms to Pakistan. We can also reply in kind, we will respond positively if Taiwan request India to provide them Arjun, LCH, ALH, LCA and various offensive as well as defensive missiles.


Not that easy. On topics such as Arunachsl Pradesh, China and Taiwan are on the same side, against India.

Not sure that there are any other such issues, but that is a big one for starters.



India and Vietnam is a far better model.


the americans are shy of transferring high tech weapons to taiwan for the reason that it is as good as being given to china !! ..so much for IPR

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kit » 18 Apr 2017 20:38

China will not join MTCR ..the drone market is now flooded with chinese stuff

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 18 Apr 2017 20:50

http://plarealtalk.com/2015/12/11/chinese-navy-vls/

china strong universal vls capable of both hot and cold launch and 3 depths

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 19 Apr 2017 14:29

Singha wrote:http://plarealtalk.com/2015/12/11/chinese-navy-vls/

china strong universal vls capable of both hot and cold launch and 3 depths


Holy clap! That is velly nice informative piece on VLS.

Seriously, not much propaganda but lots of details and reasoning behind hot and cold launches and sizes of launch tubes.

Thanks for posting it. It makes me look at the 052D in a different light. I thought they were just shitting them out for numbers. That universal cold/hot launch VLS is an eye opener especially on a ship that is mass produced.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby RohitAM » 19 Apr 2017 19:35

The PLAN easily has at least 35 known active or under construction DDG's (Most of them are pretty recent with commissioning dates on or after 2000). Considering that their major threat is on the Pacific seaboard rather than the IOR, and the fact that the Pakistan Navy has no DDG's (and can't afford any), what should be the ideal number of DDG's in our ORBAT? We have 13 active/under construction destroyers (INS Paradip and INS Porbandar 15B class DDG's have been laid down yet?), but how long are the Rajput class DDG's expected to soldier on? We would need a follow-on order of at least 4-5 more destroyers to cover the retirement of the Rajput class (5 in number), and that has to be planned now, given the abysmally slow rate of construction in our shipyards.

It would be great if one of the gurus on here can give an overall qualitative naval threat assessment from our neighbours and suggest an ideal Indian Navy Orbat to deal with the threat? A suggested timeline would be 2025, I suppose, considering that the Pakistan Navy is/will be pretty much an extension of the PLAN anyways?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby SSridhar » 19 Apr 2017 20:04

Chinese President Xi Jinping asks new People's Liberation Army units to be ready for combat, modern warfare - PTI
Chinese President Xi Jinping has asked the PLA's newly-formed 84 large military units to prepare themselves for combat and give priority to building "new-type" fighting capabilities in electronic, information and space warfare.

Xi, also the Chairman of the Central Military Commission (CMC), the overall high command of the 2.3 million-strong military, spoke to the commanders of the new units on Tuesday and asked them to improve their joint operation capabilities and technology level.

He said the new units of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) must prepare themselves for combat and study wars.

The President told the new forces to conduct more combat exercises and give priority to building "new-type" fighting capabilities, state-run China Daily reported.

In PLA terminology, "new-type" fighting capabilities generally refers to capabilities of engaging in electronic, information and space operations.

Xi's call for building "new-type" fighting capabilities of the world's largest military came as Beijing prepares to counter the US deployment of Terminal High Altitude Area Defence (THAAD) interceptor missiles in South Korea, whose powerful radars could see through most of the part of China including its missile development programme.

As it expanded strategic influence, China is also flexing its military might especially in the neighbourhood over the territorial disputes with India, Japan and countries in the South China Sea.

All 84 of the new units are at combined corps level, which means their commanders have or soon will be promoted to a rank of either major general in the Ground Force, Air Force and Rocket Force or rear admiral in the Navy.

Though the PLA has not disclosed how these units were set up, it is likely that they were created through the regrouping of existing forces rather than recruiting new personnel, because the Chinese military is still engaged in cutting its troops by three lakhs, the daily said.

The units' emergence also indicates that the PLA's structural shake-up has taken effect.

At a CMC conference in December, Xi ordered the military's structure to be adjusted and optimised, calling for a smaller but capable and flexible military, the report said.

The unprecedented reform began in November 2015, when the Central Military Commission unveiled a blueprint for the PLA's development.

The commission pledged to establish a leaner and more efficient command chain to reduce the number of non-combatant personnel and departments and to build the PLA into a mightier force capable of winning modern wars.

Since then, the PLA has set up a headquarters for its Ground Force, founded a Strategic Support Force dedicated to electronic, information and space operations, and established a Rocket Force to replace the former Second Artillery Corps.

The previous four top PLA departments-staff, politics, logistics and armaments-were dismantled, the report said.

The establishment of the units is the latest move in a massive reform the PLA is undergoing.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 19 Apr 2017 20:05

Why is an IndiaChina comparison needed on the China mil thread? Shivering thread or IN thread is for that.
Last edited by shiv on 19 Apr 2017 20:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 19 Apr 2017 20:06

RohitAM wrote:
It would be great if one of the gurus on here can give an overall qualitative naval threat assessment from our neighbours and suggest an ideal Indian Navy Orbat to deal with the threat? A suggested timeline would be 2025, I suppose, considering that the Pakistan Navy is/will be pretty much an extension of the PLAN anyways?


We would need the numbers that allow us to defeat the PLAN surface combatants and production capacity able to match them. At 10 trillion GDP, if Chinese plan 100 destroyers, we need 101 when we get to 8 or 9 trillion.

Do we really need so many? Not relevant.

Expensive? sure. With 101 destroyers, we will not be fighting with the Pakis. With 10, we will always be in constant war and writing articles about how IN is more powerful than PN and can defeat PN in any war...one which is right around the corner.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby RohitAM » 19 Apr 2017 20:21

shiv wrote:Why is an IndiaChina comparison needed on the China mil thread? Shivering thread or IN thread is for that.


One, this is not "dhoti shivering", since I don't believe in that. Realistically, right now, we have enough assets tasked to the IOR to deal with anything the Pakis and Chinese throw at us in our backyard. And if there is a thread which is to watch a rival military, I think it makes sense to compare their military strength to us on that thread, rather than doing it on the IN/IA/IAF thread, which is for discussions specific to those combat arms.

PS: Unless asking for an evaluation vis-a-vis to us is uncalled for, in which case I digress.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 19 Apr 2017 20:55

RohitAM wrote:
shiv wrote:Why is an IndiaChina comparison needed on the China mil thread? Shivering thread or IN thread is for that.


One, this is not "dhoti shivering", since I don't believe in that. Realistically, right now, we have enough assets tasked to the IOR to deal with anything the Pakis and Chinese throw at us in our backyard. And if there is a thread which is to watch a rival military, I think it makes sense to compare their military strength to us on that thread, rather than doing it on the IN/IA/IAF thread, which is for discussions specific to those combat arms.

PS: Unless asking for an evaluation vis-a-vis to us is uncalled for, in which case I digress.

No it is not shivering. Your question was actually very well worded and pertinent IMO. You asked:
Considering that their major threat is on the Pacific seaboard rather than the IOR, and the fact that the Pakistan Navy has no DDG's (and can't afford any), what should be the ideal number of DDG's in our ORBAT?


But the question is about what our (Indian) ORBAT should be after reducing the Chinese threat by the amount they would need to reserve for the Pacific seabord. That discussion should really go into a good analysis of the Indian navy in the Indian Navy thread and not the China mil thread IMO.

The China mil thread rapidly degenerates into shivering because of the vast difference in numbers and rates at which assets are reported to be added to the Chinese arsenal in shoot and scoot posts with zero analysis how and where they would need to use those assets. Even old stalwarts do it as they have literally done for decades. I attempted to shift some of the shivering to that other thread simply to demand analysis of the real Chinese threat. But such an analysis would be pertinent here as well as long as it is what the Chinese would need to do on the Pacific seaboard and what excess inventory they could send across to poke Indian backside - but what the Indian navy needs to do should not IMO be on this thread.


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