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China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 26 Aug 2017 05:43

Jokes apart, you see the sheer desperation in the likes of davidd and how the suave mask of only posting polished pics and reports of china's plogless.. slipped when doklam happened. And its clear face is everything to these chaps.

I wont be surprised if the next confrontation involves firearms. These chaps have no common sense and are full of han bluster and bravura.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Gagan » 26 Aug 2017 06:55

The Chinese are big time sissies - both in plopaganda and on the glound

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby malushahi » 27 Aug 2017 12:12


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby malushahi » 27 Aug 2017 12:15

China’s PLA readying missiles to stun Indian air power

The anti-aircraft brigade of the 79th group army was the main participant in this year’s drill, on August 22.

The exercise evaluated the unit’s radar system, command and control network, intercept capabilities, electronic and cyber warfare abilities, mobility and logistics. The batteries engaged a variety of aircraft, including the J-10, J-11, Mil Mi-171, Harbin Z-9 and an assortment of UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles).

Reporting, Chinese state media gave particular attention to the Hongqi-16 (HQ-16), one of the PLA’s most prized surface-to-air missiles.

Earlier this month, video and photographic evidence surfaced online that shows China moving trainloads of HQ-16 and HQ-17 missiles to Tibet as the standoff with India at Doklam continues.

....

The Chinese high command understands India’s assumption of achieving air supremacy in the next war. However the PLA is quietly putting together a neat little surprise for India’s flyboys.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 28 Aug 2017 09:16

How China could trick the U.S. Navy with ultraquiet submarines
http://scout.com/military/warrior/Artic ... -106504095

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 28 Aug 2017 09:58

Gagan wrote:China has 5 locations for LPAR radar.

Image

1. Bayingol: 41°38'28.13"N, 86°14'14.83"E. Known PLARF site with missile regiments deployed east of this location.
2. Dawu Shanpu: 25° 7'33.73"N, 118°45'4.67"E. Known radar site tracking Tiwanese airspace. Some people doubt this is an LPAR from the images on google earth
3. Fotang: 30°17'11.68"N, 119° 7'44.32"E
4. Shuanbai Forest: 36° 1'31.06"N, 118° 5'33.46"E
5. Zhongxu Changliu Branch: 46°31'39.98"N, 130°45'20.41"E

6. Historic Tech Development site first set up in the 1970s, now dismantled: 40°26'49.42"N, 115° 6'59.22"E


Looks like EW radar for missile warning

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 01 Sep 2017 14:55

Back to chini mil watching since Doka La ended with a small fart given that the PRC was all hot air and no shit.

Their 2nd carrier is looking like it will hit the water for sea tests soon.

I can see why there are so many firangi (mainly gora) china mil watchers. News and pictures are consistent and there is always a payoff at the end for the watchers.

Since the keel was laid down in 2015, there has been a constant stream of pictures, rumors and news on this thing.

Conversely, dead silence from Cochin on the Vikrant for about two months now.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/20467/Outfitting_Work__System_Debugging_of_China___s_Aircraft_Carrier____Almost_Complete___

China’s first home-made aircraft carrier has completed outfitting work and system debugging and is soon expected to commence mooring trials.
...
Quoting a Beijing-based naval military expert Li Jie, the report said, "If everything goes well, the mooring trials might only take about a month. Once the mooring trials are completed, the carrier can move on to its sea tests," said.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 02 Sep 2017 05:30


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 02 Sep 2017 08:02



Photoshopped for chini version of "Top Gun" movie.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 06 Sep 2017 19:54

Cannot find it on the net, but, NPR reporting that China has conducted live ABM maneuvers, along the border with NK - part of the reason is to warn the US not to intervene in NK.

The report also mentioned something to do with Vietnam!!! Did not catch that part.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Sep 2017 19:22

The new chini carrier might be leaking at pierside!? What other reason for it to be pumping out water?

On more serious note, the second circle shows that they are already installing point defense HQ-10 SAMs on this fvcking thing already.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 07 Sep 2017 19:46

probably just testing the pumps in various watertight compartments. they need to work when its time.
they can also fill the ballast tanks to lower the ship into deeper stable draught for testing.

thing about ships is ruggedness, redundancy, quality work ... loosey goosey stuff is frowned upon. unsexy but solid beasts.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Sep 2017 19:54

Singha wrote:probably just testing the pumps in various watertight compartments. they need to work when its time.
they can also fill the ballast tanks to lower the ship into deeper stable draught for testing.

thing about ships is ruggedness, redundancy, quality work ... loosey goosey stuff is frowned upon. unsexy but solid beasts.


Yeah, I figure it is something like that. But I'm still starting a rumor on PDF that their new carrier has sprung a leak. lol

That said, I need some news on the Vikrant. We need it for our shock and awe campaign on the paki site. We remind them that this behemoth is coming. The Tall and Fair are clinging to the chini carrier like roaches to bandage their growing inferiority complex. We need to wave the Vikrant like a giant lun in their face but Cochin is not helping.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Gagan » 07 Sep 2017 23:34

chola wrote:The new chini carrier might be leaking at pierside!? What other reason for it to be pumping out water?

Chola
ALL ships have a washing system to wash the Anchor and the chains because they pick up a lot of muck from the seabed.
They are testing this most likely.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 08 Sep 2017 00:27

malushahi wrote:China’s PLA readying missiles to stun Indian air power

The anti-aircraft brigade of the 79th group army was the main participant in this year’s drill, on August 22.

The exercise evaluated the unit’s radar system, command and control network, intercept capabilities, electronic and cyber warfare abilities, mobility and logistics. The batteries engaged a variety of aircraft, including the J-10, J-11, Mil Mi-171, Harbin Z-9 and an assortment of UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles).

Reporting, Chinese state media gave particular attention to the Hongqi-16 (HQ-16), one of the PLA’s most prized surface-to-air missiles.

Earlier this month, video and photographic evidence surfaced online that shows China moving trainloads of HQ-16 and HQ-17 missiles to Tibet as the standoff with India at Doklam continues.

....

The Chinese high command understands India’s assumption of achieving air supremacy in the next war. However the PLA is quietly putting together a neat little surprise for India’s flyboys.


Atimes is pretty much exposed as a pinko PRC rag. Seriously "Chinese High Command"...

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 08 Sep 2017 00:58

I am reading on the 1962 China war. Book by Kunal Verma, scathing, spares no punches.
However, one thing stands out.
War was lost purely by Incompetence of paper Generals in IA hoisted by Nehru & his coterie. Whenever Indian soldiers fought from prepared, tactically sound positions, they gave the PRC chaps a hiding. The tactical battle was all about concentrated fire - both from auto weapons plus accurate fire either single shot or auto, sound tactical siting, not being flanked & mortars. Time and again, useless brass hats bickered and put troops in unsound positions with improper supplies. All due to JLN and his coterie having their way and other brass hats watching pusillanimously.

So, extrapolate that to today. For the PLA to take on a far more professionally commanded and battle hardened IA today (from J&K, NE, UN OPS) which is well dug in, will involve prodigious use of arty & firepower & even then, IA can still dish out a lot of damage.

IMHO the 155mm gun + ammo program, new weapons & sights & radios for PBI aka poor bleddy infantry should be a priority, as should be the Ka-226/LUH program + Mi-17s for proper supply.

If we solve the OFB mess, half our issues would disappear.

Also some usual PRC methods
- Constant provocation
- Constant intell monitoring, ie. Doklam type incidents will be deterred if they know Modi is resolute & there is a strong line of succession, which is equally resolute + free hand to a professional military
- Flanking attacks (all their human wave attacks were brought at tremendous human price)
- Gradual build up. So if munitions are being built up expect trouble
- Road building activities were prelude to trouble then (and clearly now)

All in all, PRC has nothing but complete megalomaniacal hostility for its neighbours. They need to be carefully observed, all the time.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 08 Sep 2017 01:05

If there is a full blown war, I fully expect decapitation strikes on Indian C3I by PRCs arty corps i.e. ballistic missiles and on indian political leaders by long range cruise missile attacks. The impact would be to scare our leaders and cause a huge economic impact, i.e. cause a FII run on our market. I hope the GOI has wargamed the latter. For the former, it now makes ample sense why S-4XX and MRSAM orders are being progressed double-quick.
Given the depth of PRC defenses and IADS, I do believe we need to think of platforms beyond the Rafale and more Nirbhay screw ups cannot be allowed to occur. The extended range Brahmos has come at the right time.
Also, our PGM programs have to be kicked out of the TD, endless trials phase and put in services hands asap, as must be the 155mm program. With Solar & Premier & Bharat forge, no reason why 155mm ammo can't move to the private sector as well. We need to arm our men well & the PRC cannot win a war of attrition. With specific PGM & other programs, we can also gain the ability to hit back hard. Hopefully, Pralay for the IA, and Nirbhay/XR-Brahmos will be the other game changers.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 08 Sep 2017 01:08

If we accelerate our arms preparation, PRC will automatically be deterred. Judging from the 1962 conflict, fully expect many of our leftists to be compromised and in cahoots with their sinic masters and feeding them information. If the GOI post a 2019 repeat by Modi (fingers crossed) cracks down on these cabals, the message to the dlagon will be loud and clear. Truly, the dlagon must be rueing its chances that it didn't do more during the UPA era, perhaps watching Indian implode economically, socially and militarily was joy enough. But that window has passed.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 08 Sep 2017 01:30

Karan M wrote:I am reading on the 1962 China war. Book by Kunal Verma, scathing, spares no punches.
However, one thing stands out.
War was lost purely by Incompetence of paper Generals in IA hoisted by Nehru & his coterie. Whenever Indian soldiers fought from prepared, tactically sound positions, they gave the PRC chaps a hiding. The tactical battle was all about concentrated fire - both from auto weapons plus accurate fire either single shot or auto, sound tactical siting, not being flanked & mortars.

So, extrapolate that to today. For the PLA to take on a far more professionally commanded and battle hardened IA today (from J&K, NE, UN OPS) which is well dug in, will involve prodigious use of arty & firepower & even then, IA can still dish out a lot of damage.

IMHO the 155mm gun + ammo program, new weapons & sights & radios for PBI aka poor bleddy infantry should be a priority, as should be the Ka-226/LUH program + Mi-17s for proper supply.

If we solve the OFB mess, half our issues would disappear.

Also some usual PRC methods
- Constant provocation
- Constant intell monitoring, ie. Doklam type incidents will be deterred if they know Modi is resolute & there is a strong line of succession, which is equally resolute + free hand to a professional military
- Flanking attacks (all their human wave attacks were brought at tremendous human price)
- Gradual build up. So if munitions are being built up expect trouble
- Road building activities were prelude to trouble then (and clearly now)


Agree. Defensively we are pretty inpregnable. We have more men and resources. We are the more experienced hardened army. They cannot build up for an attack without us knowing.

The only issue is whether we have the will to go on the offensive.

And to be perfectly honest, I doubt they had the logistics be able to "human wave" us in 1962. It was all incompetence from both the babus and the generals back then.


All in all, PRC has nothing but complete megalomaniacal hostility for its neighbours. They need to be carefully observed, all the time.


No, it is FAR more insidious than that. I have to explain this over and over. If they were showing clear megalomaniacal hostility to its neighbors, the PRC would be isolated and quarantined into economic basketcase status like Iran, NoKo and Pakiland.

Instead, Cheen trades, exchanges cultural/educational contacts and sends tourists on far greater volumes with its "enemies" like the US, Japan, Taiwan, SoKo, etc. than we do with our friends, whomever they are (find one with whom we have much trade, tourism, etc. with.)

No, what is dangerous with Cheen is their ability to encrouch relentlessly during times of peace and change facts on the ground through sheer mass of infractructure and equipment.

The game they play is to their strengths (money, manufacturing, trade) and away from their weakness (actual warfare.)

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 08 Sep 2017 01:48

That is megalomaniacal hostility. Only they are smart and inveigle their neighbours into submission OR attempt to browbeat them. That's what I am saying.

And we should not rule out war. Training their troops in Malayalam and Tamil, moving HQ-16s to the border etc is just a complete replay of 1962.

We got surprised in 1962 because we thought they couldn't wage war overnight and were bluffing. Instead they built up their strength gradually and consistently, and moved troops, munitions, built roads in open view of IA troops etc and we did nothing. And Nehru and his coterie played politics with IA to even prevent it from gaining public popularity (he was worried about Timmy replacing him).

Lesson for us today is to use the "peacetime" to resupply our troops, make our tactical provisions, give the military a free hand to maneuver and site as they see fit (no stupid orders to position in a line in front of the advancing PRC troops) & automatically PRC will be deterred.

However, if we screw up in the above and again resort to pettyfogging and show substantial weakness.

PRC will attack.

They prey only on the weak, wherein they think they can win & win decisively. After Vietnam, I believe that motive will be reasserted in their psyche, that in media glare, they will want to hurt India badly, whilst having mainland PRC goes by unscathed.

So we really must be on our toes and:

- Build up border forces to prevent any rapid territorial gain
- Build up sophisticated defenses to prevent decapitating strikes on our infra, C3I and military/political leadership
- Build up capabilities to hurt PRC back, eg Nirbhays and deep strike capabilities. If they can attack Delhi, we should be able to return the favor to Beijing

Plus ringfence our economy, as much as possible, from PRC exports. Find ways to bypass WTO norms etc.

At every step, we have to be alert. If we are weak, PRC will attack.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Sep 2017 01:54

Well said Karan Saar. +108.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 08 Sep 2017 05:03

India-China DGMO hotline talks hit a wall as China seeks 48-hour notice
https://theprint.in/2017/09/07/india-ch ... na-notice/

But the whole project spiralled out of control when China said that it needed 48-hour advance warning before the DGMO could make the phone call. :lol: Beijing also specified that this notice should be sent through the Chinese embassy in India.

The Indian side felt that this condition defeated the purpose of a hotline, which is essentially designed for instant communication to deal with any crisis situation. India currently operates a hotline with Pakistan.

Also, sources added, any such crisis would have to be serious enough because it would have been assumed that it could not be dealt with by local commanders.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 08 Sep 2017 09:50

They have embedded commissaars who provide direction no? Perhaps this 48 hr notice is to ensure political acceptability to whatever is discussed and agreed upon during these calls?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 08 Sep 2017 10:06

The 48-hour lukewarm line. The Chicoms can go masturbate (like their military-age population.)

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 08 Sep 2017 10:06

Prasad wrote:They have embedded commissaars who provide direction no? Perhaps this 48 hr notice is to ensure political acceptability to whatever is discussed and agreed upon during these calls?

Also - the hotline will be at 4500 meters near the border. The commissar will be in a warm room at 3000 meters in Lhasa

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby yensoy » 08 Sep 2017 10:07

Rakesh wrote:India-China DGMO hotline talks hit a wall as China seeks 48-hour notice
https://theprint.in/2017/09/07/india-ch ... na-notice/


It appears to me that the Chinese government doesn't trust the PLA to handle matters. "They don't have an equivalent of DGMO" is like saying the PLA doesn't have a brain just a huge body. Of course it's not accidental, very much by design to keep the army under Party control. Are we expecting this army to fight an offensive war?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 08 Sep 2017 10:24

yensoy wrote:
Rakesh wrote:India-China DGMO hotline talks hit a wall as China seeks 48-hour notice
https://theprint.in/2017/09/07/india-ch ... na-notice/


It appears to me that the Chinese government doesn't trust the PLA to handle matters. "They don't have an equivalent of DGMO" is like saying the PLA doesn't have a brain just a huge body. Of course it's not accidental, very much by design to keep the army under Party control. Are we expecting this army to fight an offensive war?


No. And they haven't for many decades now. But that is exactly why I believe we missed an opportunity at Doka La.

Read on.

Karan M wrote:PRC will attack.


They will not militarily. And that is the problem. If they attack openly during the years of their rise, they would have been put in their places by any number of nations in direct combat.

But they never fight and, unlike Pakis, they are rational enough to know war is not to their strength.

The things that got them to number two as I described previously will continue. Trade, mass manufacturing, infrastructure networks and of course insidious, ambitious schemes like OBOR and CPEC.

Obviously I agree we should maintain a good defense. And we have more than that already on our chini borders. But sometimes the best defense is a good offense. And in this case, it is imperative we go on the offensive militarily because they won't.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 09 Sep 2017 01:31

Chola,

"They will not militarily. And that is the problem. If they attack openly during the years of their rise, they would have been put in their places by any number of nations in direct combat."


They think they have risen and even if they haven't, the window period wherein India has not risen but will rise is slipping away.

That is their concern.

If they can humiliate India before Indian leadership stabilizes & economy & mil boom as a result, it will be a big win for them. So they will keep looking at opportunities.

IMHO, India should not, even fractionally, let its guard down.

We on BRF keep thinking of territory & defeating our units in prepared positions.
IMHO, that's mistaken.

We should also be thinking of
A) Long range missile attacks on our key infrastructure - political, military, infrastructure targets - especially where trade etc occurs for maximum visible impact
B ) Asymmetric attacks on our IT & Civilian networks (Power etc). Again, to cause maximum chaos & cause a "loss of face"

1962 was also all about showing upstart India and jumped up Nehru about their true place in Asia.

We do have glaring weaknesses in our Orbat and funding.

When our IA, IAF, IN, DRDO, Pvt sector , DPSU bigwigs openly point to those deficiencies our leaders better listen & act on them.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 09 Sep 2017 01:41

If PRC takes down our power networks using subspec IT hardware sold to our "i got a discount saar" operators in the pvt sector, and our economy crashes its as much as a threat as some long sword hitting an airbase in the NE.

You can sanitize the impact of the latter but the former will resonate across the world.

PRC has infiltrated our entire ecosystem, there was talk of even BEL purchasing PRC made routers and switches. This madness has to be fixed. Usual GOI method of endless committees won't cut it. Hopefully this GOI is more action than talk so its being addressed.

Playing per some WTO rules while PRC does not, and putting our national security at risk is nuts.

IMHO only reason all this hasnt happened is because India is not yet a primary threat for PRC. Contesting the US putting footprint in SE Asia, bullying ROC are all bigger issues.. for now.

But pull a bunch of Doklams regularly, and gloat about it, and the little empelols in Beijing may suddenly get antsy and do something stupid. Then when that occurs all bets are off.

Why will it remain restricted to arty duels in the NE? And not extend to such attacks.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 09 Sep 2017 12:36

PLAN receiving new JL-10 trainers. Looks like a carbon copy of the Yak-130. Still the number and breadth of projects the PRC runs and pushes to their military is spectacular. This one was under my radar.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 09 Sep 2017 12:46

Their land-based carrier test site in Wuhan now has a new island. Presumed island of their Type 002 CATOBAR. Rebuilt from an old island mockup that was of the Type 001A (and before that, a mockup of their current carrier Liaoning.) So the site gives an accurate preview of what is coming for spies and fanbois.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karan M » 09 Sep 2017 12:46

They are a militarized state by definition. No account of how much money goes into military and inefficient but numerous mini-empire

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 09 Sep 2017 13:07

Their Su-30 MKK ripoff, the J-16,is starting to be deployed in numbers. Main difference from the original is the WS-10 engine.

They buy a license on the base Su-27 and clone it as the J-11B.

Then buys a few dozen Su-30 MKK and clone those from the same factory as the J-11.

Then buy a few dozen Su-35. So what are the chances they will clone those as well?

All in connivance with the Russians too since they keep selling these small batches and still providing engines for the J-20, J-31 and JF-17.

How do they get these deep ToT, free rein in building variants and still get support from arsehole suppliers (to us) like the Russians?

Image

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 09 Sep 2017 13:23

Karan M wrote:They are a militarized state by definition. No account of how much money goes into military and inefficient but numerous mini-empire


I would imagine so as totalitarian state. Assuming that money is less of an object when it comes to defense expenditure.

But Cheen, rather unfortunately, is far from a militarized state. Otherwise, it would be nice to predict a trajectory like that of the USSR.

Now the USSR was a militarized state. They ended up spending themselves to death with 50 percent of their GDP tied up in their MIC. Cheen is the polar opposite as a mercantile trading state with a mil budget (even if they lie about it) that can't be any more than at around 2 or 3 percent of GDP. The chini MIC would be dwarfed many times over by their own eco-system in the global supply chain for consumer goods alone never mind those for their civilian infrastructure (building cities in Cheen and roads abroad) and transportation (like their giant and expanding HSR network.)

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 12 Sep 2017 07:17

I beat Jane's by two days on this intel (read my post on the 9th!)

http://www.janes.com/article/73701/china-s-land-based-carrier-mock-up-undergoing-further-modifications

China’s land-based carrier mock-up undergoing further modifications
Andrew Tate - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
11 September 2017

A recently published image of modifications made to China’s land-based aircraft carrier development facility at Wuhan reflects the ongoing work supporting the development of the country’s third aircraft carrier, commonly known as the Type 002.

Published in Chinese online forums in early September, the image shows that the height of the island's forward upper superstructure on the carrier mock-up has been increased to facilitate faring in the array panels of the phased array radar.

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In addition, the smaller square apertures above those for the main array panels suggest that the Type 002 may be equipped with a dual-band, phased-array radar: a configuration that appears to be similar to that on China’s Type 055 destroyers, the first of which was launched in June.

Prasad
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 12 Sep 2017 23:59

The sub building facility that isn't?
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why ... ?page=show

chola
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 14 Sep 2017 14:52

Intel from Cheen copter expo.

A Z-19 attack copter with mast-mounted (millimeter wave?) radar ala Apache LongBow. Not their main attack helo, the Z-10. But a variant of their utility Z-9 dauphin clone. Looks like it has no guns but a lot of mijjiles!


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Austin
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 15 Sep 2017 17:26

Not bad , They can still have pod mounted gun of lower caliber if not a chin mounted one ,MMW is way forward

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 15 Sep 2017 17:27


Singha
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 15 Sep 2017 17:56

just to point out another propaganda aspect, the Z19 above is powered by a pair of license made turbomeca arriel that produce 850hp each.
the ceiling is blandly given as 20,000ft.

the Dhruv is powered by two ardigens from same vendor at 1400hp each and yet we see tests to carry only 4 ATGMs on the Rudra and this thing is supposed to teach the yindu a lesson with 16 atgms ...

pffttt....it will barely be able to fly with anything useful above 10000ft, let alone 16 ATGMs. it is probably meant for a coastal patrol and anti-FAC role given the maritime heritage of the dauphin and even there i doubt why a mission would need 16 missiles.

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