Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6018
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby vina » 06 Oct 2017 10:18

deejay wrote:^^^you missed the point. :)

Oh, I do agree with the "gist" ,but was just pointing out it wasn't due to the the turbo piston engine.
But then, like Archimedes said, give a rod, long enough and strong enough and a point to rest it on, and I will move the world.
So, if the chinese get a "long enough" runway built, maybe they can.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 06 Oct 2017 10:26

deejay wrote:
pravula wrote:...

Sorry, no special physics applies to IA or IAF. All combustion engines loose power will reduced air flow, compressors are there to address this issue.


You are talking of cruising at 25000 feet right and I am talking of take off from Tibet. I am sure Physics does not allow great PE performance from Tibet even for Chinese PLA or PLAAF.

Turbocharged or not, I don't see people doing well with even jets at those altitudes. Neither will Chinese UAVs.


Yes, that is why these Predator-clones are all over the Middle East and why even J-10s or J-11s are rare in Tibet never mind drones.

(Read my posts on why we should have gone to war with Cheen during Doklam in the “PRC Defanged” thread. A missed opportunity where we owned overwhelming air and ground strength exactly because of Tibet’s topography.)

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 06 Oct 2017 10:39

For a commie nation, the PRC manage their PSUs and private sector in a competitive environment pretty well.

I didn’t realize that the CH-4 sold to Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Egypt was never supported by their government and never sold to the PLA (they supposedly fly the Wing Loongs onlee.) Imagine if ADA/HAL or a subdivision of theirs had come up with something they can sell without begging from the MoD and ultimately the MoF? None of this stuff is beyond HAL (especially if we hadn’t skipped the piston, turboprop, turbojet foundational steps in the 1980s and 90s while shooting for the moon in a modern turbofan like the Kaveri.)

The moola the CH-4’s manufacturer CASC received from the Arabs allowed them to develop the CH-5 which will make even more muzzies who can’t buy Amreeki killer drones interested no doubt.

Image

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1803
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby AdityaM » 07 Oct 2017 11:54

If India threatens chinese sea lanes via Malacca, is Djibouti the Chinese counter?

Image

https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven/statu ... 3999527939
#China #PLA strategical mega fortress #Djibouti has unprecedented security.Massive storage base2feed Div+ for>3mnths


https://theprint.in/2017/09/27/china-me ... -pakistan/

massive
fortress is being constructed that can easily accommodate over a brigade
strength force, has an unprecedented four-layered security ring and can
handle a dozen helicopters.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2817
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 07 Oct 2017 12:07

055 type launched. Massive destroyer this @ 13500 tons

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Oct 2017 14:15

AdityaM wrote:If India threatens chinese sea lanes via Malacca, is Djibouti the Chinese counter?

Image

https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven/statu ... 3999527939
#China #PLA strategical mega fortress #Djibouti has unprecedented security.Massive storage base2feed Div+ for>3mnths


https://theprint.in/2017/09/27/china-me ... -pakistan/

massive
fortress is being constructed that can easily accommodate over a brigade
strength force, has an unprecedented four-layered security ring and can
handle a dozen helicopters.



No room for an air base or even an air strip so that limits its ability to patrol the ocean. Not much of a threat to India yet. A supply depot for PLAN ships transittimg the region.

The troops based here are more geared towards Africa and the Middle East. To protect OBOR should things go south? Once PLAN destroyers and frigates are in Gwadar or Iran (Iranians touted the PLAN visit this summer as a jab in Unkil’s eye) then they will have forces to contest a blockade at Malacca.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Oct 2017 14:41

Cain Marko wrote:055 type launched. Massive destroyer this @ 13500 tons


I don’t think any of the four they have building in Shanghai and Dalian are actually in the water yet. But 13K tons DDGs being built in parallel in multiple shipyards are food for thought while we wait for four Visakhapatnams at half their size from MDL onlee.


chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 12 Oct 2017 02:29

Major piece of intel. Well respected chini mil watch site East Pendulum now says that the first launch of a J-15 from an EMALS device occurred in November of last year. It even mentioned the test pilot Cheng who has 2100 hours flying on naval aircraft.

The link is in French, use google translate if interested.

http://www.eastpendulum.com/armee-chinoise-confirme-le-catapultage-reussi-dun-j-15-sur-emals

The lizard has a fvcking EMALS catapult and the MoD had just put our carrier program on ice.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 17 Oct 2017 13:43

Clip of the J-31 opening its bay. Looks huge.

Image

Still no official support it seems. Probably will be hawked to Pakiland. An indication of the state of their industry when a chini PSU can design and build a prototype of a fvcking stealth fighter to pitch to the military.

This is what the American MIC does. And what HAL should do. Instead of waiting for funding from the MoF through the MoD for any new project, why not take some of that profit from the MKI project and invest in a new feasible design that it can propose to the MoD?

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3616
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby deejay » 17 Oct 2017 13:56

^^^Wow! Not a single control surface moved or changed position despite the huge bomb bays opening and closing. Steady, she goes. :shock: :shock: :eek:

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1002
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby rkhanna » 17 Oct 2017 14:46

chola wrote:Clip of the J-31 opening its bay. Looks huge.

Image

Still no official support it seems. Probably will be hawked to Pakiland. An indication of the state of their industry when a chini PSU can design and build a prototype of a fvcking stealth fighter to pitch to the military.

This is what the American MIC does. And what HAL should do. Instead of waiting for funding from the MoF through the MoD for any new project, why not take some of that profit from the MKI project and invest in a new feasible design that it can propose to the MoD?


Sirji HAL cannot reinvest Retained Earnings without approval of the board/shareholders. If GOI has no interest HAL has no interest.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9277
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 17 Oct 2017 16:07

Looking at Google earth, more and more facilities of PLA are coming up in Chumbi Valley, they are flooding the valley, see coordinates 27°31'13.4"N 88°58'17.1"E (27.520389, 88.971407 in decimals)

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 18 Oct 2017 12:39

rkhanna wrote:
chola wrote:Clip of the J-31 opening its bay. Looks huge.

Image

Still no official support it seems. Probably will be hawked to Pakiland. An indication of the state of their industry when a chini PSU can design and build a prototype of a fvcking stealth fighter to pitch to the military.

This is what the American MIC does. And what HAL should do. Instead of waiting for funding from the MoF through the MoD for any new project, why not take some of that profit from the MKI project and invest in a new feasible design that it can propose to the MoD?


Sirji HAL cannot reinvest Retained Earnings without approval of the board/shareholders. If GOI has no interest HAL has no interest.


Yes, I know. That is why there must be change. If it can’t come organically to the PSUs then it must be done through the private sector or competitive pressure from there.

Look at US competition of the past: F-14 vs F-111, YF-16 vs YF-17 (became F-18), YF-22 vs YF-23, F-18E/F vs A-12. Advances come heavy and quickly in competition where firms stake their future in developing advance yet achievable designs. A communist-type system where money must come from the state for every project can never be as efficient or innovative.

Seeing cheen PSUs and private sector companies putting forth prototypes without central funding or support to me is a troubling indication that the chinis are moving fast towards the the highly successful US way of doing things.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 18 Oct 2017 12:52

Top flight report on Cheen’s carrier training air station at Huangdicun from Col. Vinayak Bhat.

https://theprint.in/2017/10/17/satellite-images-reveal-china-naval-airbase/

The first airbase with possible ski ramps was noticed in June 2010 at Huangdicun near Xincheng. The airbase construction started in April 2009 and was operational by the end of 2011.

The airbase has two ski ramps and two wire traps with arrestor cables. It has 24 aircraft shelters with one shelter for possible UAV parking, three large hangars possibly for UAVs, one large hangar for airborne early warning and control (AEWC) planes and other administrative facilities.

The airbase was upgraded with two catapults between 2015 and 2016. The first catapult-assisted take off was observed on satellite imagery in October 2016. The two catapults (steam and electromagnetic) suggest that future carrier vessels of the PLAN will have catapult assisted take off but arrested recovery or CATOBAR.

...

The aircraft usually observed on this airbase are J-15, which are the basic naval aviation backbone developed based on Su-33 of Russian origin. It has features such as missile approach warning system (MAWS), glass cockpit, tail sting and WS-10H engines with improved thrust for ski-ramp take offs.

UAVs and JL-9s have also been observed on this airbase. The presence of JL-9, in addition to J-15 aircraft, on the airbase suggests higher pilot to aircraft ratio.

The UAVs seen on the catapults suggest the future Chinese carrier vessels will have UAVs with CATOBAR (a system used for the launch and recovery of aircraft from the deck of an aircraft carrier) version.

Image

Image

Image

There have been three accidents, two of them fatal. Both fatal accidents occurred in the month of April 2016. The first one was on the ground training facility at Huangdicun and the other was on board Liaoning.

Two of these accidents could be identified on the satellite imagery much before the official announcement. The first one was identified in the last week of June 2016 from the remains of burn marks on the grass, approximately 700 m from the first arrestor cable.

Image

nam
BRFite
Posts: 545
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 18 Oct 2017 14:22

Aditya_V wrote:Looking at Google earth, more and more facilities of PLA are coming up in Chumbi Valley, they are flooding the valley, see coordinates 27°31'13.4"N 88°58'17.1"E (27.520389, 88.971407 in decimals)


Good. We need to get the Han from their comfort zone in Shanghai in to the frozen heights of Tibet.

This will also let us scream "threat" and speed up modernization.

They can put all they want in the valley. We will pound them from the heights.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6004
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 18 Oct 2017 14:54

Look at US competition of the past: F-14 vs F-111, YF-16 vs YF-17 (became F-18), YF-22 vs YF-23, F-18E/F vs A-12. Advances come heavy and quickly in competition where firms stake their future in developing advance yet achievable designs. A communist-type system where money must come from the state for every project can never be as efficient or innovative.


In all those instances money came indirectly from the state since the defense industry in the US is largely a 1 customer set up. The difference is that what allowed private industry to secure shareholder and institutional funding for their IRAD projects was the prospect of state funded profit stream down the road. In other words they took some risk, Northrop and McD along spent just shy of $900 Million dollars of their own money on the failed YF23 project back in the late 80s and early 90s.

There are limits even in the private set up because profit margins in the DOD are closely monitored (unlike Apple or Google, companies most often cited by folks trying to peg them to defense contractors) and demand is cyclical, loosely based around replacement cycles. You will be hard pressed to find a firm that is spending more than 3-5% of revenue on IRAD because they have shareholder responsibilities.
Last edited by brar_w on 18 Oct 2017 17:51, edited 1 time in total.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33977
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 18 Oct 2017 17:10

Aditya_V wrote:Looking at Google earth, more and more facilities of PLA are coming up in Chumbi Valley, they are flooding the valley, see coordinates 27°31'13.4"N 88°58'17.1"E (27.520389, 88.971407 in decimals)

Please consider this as choti mooh badi baat. This site was marked by rajfortyseven on Twitter and was cross posted on BRF but I have a real problem with accepting this as a regular military site for the following reasons. I say this after spending hours and hours looking for Chinese military sites.

I say this because
1. military sites usually have excellent road connectivity, this one does not
2. There are usually large parade or parking/training areas. Very little here.
3. It is usually a neat walled compound with guarded gate entrance. This has no such thing
4. If vehicles are seen they are olive green military and neatly parked in rows. In any case civil vehicles are not seen. This site has many likely civil vehicles haphazardly parked
5. There is often, but not always a helipad

This is not to say that the Chinese are not building up - but there are so many other sites. Even this image is from 2016 and is not new.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3513
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kartik » 26 Oct 2017 02:18


chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 26 Oct 2017 22:02




That made a nice mushroom.

JL-9 is the latest MiG-21 offspring to date. Still being built brand new with a turbojet.

Interesting that this is a trainer since the MiG-21 is famous for being atrociously hard handling for new pilots.

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1803
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby AdityaM » 27 Oct 2017 08:20


Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60479
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2017 08:47

good analysis by raj47. the brigade and artillery units are on field deployment without time to build neat walled compounds and parade grounds. so they are dispersing and based in these makeshift areas without huge supporting infra.

even then it is not easy to support a brigade up there in the frigid cold with supply chain going back to lhasa depots.

our imint analysts will be keeping a careful eye on SAM units and mobile LR radars moving forward, as they know the static cheen mountain top radars will be struck within the first hour hostilities

we have some 6 IRS sats on N-S tracks over tibet so will be getting daily feeds of the area from atleast 1 or 2.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 27 Oct 2017 19:23

Interesting write up on major ongoing PRC aviation programs. Most of stuff are pretty well-known in this thread — J-20, J-31, carriers, helos, UAVs but the DF-41 ICBM info is rather rare and new.

https://theaviationist.com/2017/10/25/chinese-stealth-goes-operational-carrier-program-and-export-initiatives-accelerate/



CHINESE STEALTH GOES OPERATIONAL, CARRIER PROGRAM AND EXPORT INITIATIVES ACCELERATE
Oct 25 2017


By Tom Demerly

CHINA’S OPERATIONAL STEALTH FIGHTER: THE J-20

CHINA’S DF-41 ICBM: GLOBAL STRIKE CAPABILITY IN WORLD’S LONGEST RANGE ICBM.
The Dongfeng-41 or DF-41 is an impressive and menacing missile system. It has the longest range of any ICBM in the world, surpassing the U.S. LGM-30 Minuteman III by a significant margin. Various sources quote the U.S. LGM-30 as having an approximate strike range of nearly 8,000 miles. But the Chinese and external analysts suggest the range of the DF-41 exceeds 9,000 miles.

The DF-41 ICBM, developed beginning in late July, 2012, takes a page from Israeli ICBM development on their Jericho 3 ICBM by being so fast it is likely impossible to intercept. The DF-41 flies at Mach 25 or 19,000+ M.P.H. enabling it to strike nearly every target in the world in less than an hour.


THE SHENYANG J-31 GYRFALCON: CHINA’S JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER?


THE CHINESE AIRCRAFT CARRIER PROGRAM: FROM BUYING USED TO BUILDING AT HOME.

CHINESE GUNSHIPS: A NEW CATEGORY FOR A NEW WORLD ORDER.

CHINESE RPA’S, ALREADY AN EXPORT SUCCESS WITH NEW MODELS COMING.



nam
BRFite
Posts: 545
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 27 Oct 2017 20:02



The note about track discipline is interesting. So they had set it up in hurry and had to do lots of trips to feed and oil the brigade. It could also mean to be a deliberately noted by us as mark of intentions.

The fact that they had dispersed over large area and had air defense tells how sh** scared they are of IAF attacks. This does not indicate a offensive posture.

Now if they can disperse to prevent rocket attacks, wouldn't IA do the same? So where does that leave their TFTA rockets?

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1803
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby AdityaM » 28 Oct 2017 00:44

nam wrote:The fact that they had dispersed over large area and had air defense tells how sh** scared they are of IAF attacks. This does not indicate a offensive posture.

Being prudent doesn’t imply being shit scared.

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 955
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 31 Oct 2017 14:13

Dhoti Shiver time :)

China tests new spy drones in near space 'death zone'

China has successfully tested high-altitude spy drones which could help it dominate "near space", a region of the Earth's atmosphere, a media report said.

Near space, which begins at about 20km above sea level, has until now been regarded a "death zone" for drones due to thin air and extremely low temperatures.

At this altitude, thin air makes it hard to generate lift for a drone while extremely low temperature means electronic components, like batteries are prone to fail.


The goal of scientists is to develop a durable near space vehicle capable of observing large areas for weeks, months or even years on end.

Drones, which would cost just a fraction of what a satellite with comparable abilities would cost, are seen as one of the best ways of reaching that goal.

Until now, the Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk, which can reach to an altitude of about 19km, has been the highest-flying drone in use.

Last month, a research facility in Inner Mongolia successfully tested an experimental drone at an altitude of 25km, the report said.


The test involved two experimental unmanned aerial vehicles being sent up on a high-pressure balloon before being deployed at different altitudes. The second drone was deployed at an altitude of nine-km, it said.

Each of the drones, which are about the size of a bat, was launched using an electromagnetic pulse that accelerated them from zero to 100 km within a space of about the length of an arm.

"It shot out like a bullet," said Yang Yanchu, lead scientist of the project with the Academy of Optoelectronics at the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing.

The drones then glided towards their targets more than 100km away, adjusting course and altitude in flight without human intervention. On-board sensors beamed data back to a ground station.

"The goal of our research is to launch hundreds of these drones in one shot, like letting loose a bee or ant colony," Yang said.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 31 Oct 2017 15:12

I would dhoti-shiver if Cheen were a fighting nation. But they are a Short Yellow Rice Eating (SYRE) race so I watch their mil development like Jane Goodall studying chimpanzees.

Lots of stuff here including shipborne ballistic missiles and the air wing for their carrier program.

IMHO, the most interesting is the Amreeki style single hull 7K-ton SSN armed with a dozen missile tubes and the “auxiliary nuclear powerplant for electricity generation for fitting into conventional submarine designs.”

The second one is disruptive technology if they succeed. Nuclear powerpacks for SSKs to extend endurance.

https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/leaked-slides-detail-chinese-navys-shipbuilding-plans

Potential modernization plans or ambitions of the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) were revealed in unprecedented detail by a former rear admiral in a university lecture, perhaps delivered within the last 2-3 years. The admiral, retired Rear Admiral Zhao Dengping, revealed key programs such as: a new medium-size nuclear attack submarine; a small nuclear auxiliary engine for conventional submarines; ship-based use of anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs); next-generation destroyer capabilities; and goals for PLAN Air Force modernization.

...

A New SSN
Admiral Zhao described a new unidentified 7,000-ton nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) that will feature a “new type of powerplant…new weapon system [and] electronic information system.” An image shows this SSN featuring a sound isolation raft and propulsor which should reduce its acoustic signature, 12 cruise missile tubes in front of the sail, and a bow and sail similar to the current Type 093 SSN. This design appears to have a single hull, which would be a departure from current PLAN submarine design practice, but the 7,000 ton weigh suggests it may reflect the lower-cost weight and capability balance seen in current U.S. and British SSNs.

...

Small Nuclear Powerplant
Zhao also revealed the PLAN may be working on a novel low power/low pressure auxiliary nuclear powerplant for electricity generation for fitting into conventional submarine designs, possibly succeeding the PLAN’s current Stirling engine-based air independent propulsion (AIP) systems.

One slide seems to suggest that the PLAN will continue to build smaller submarines around the size of current conventional powered designs, but that they will be modified to carry the new nuclear auxiliary powerplant to give them endurance advantages of nuclear power. While the PLA would likely seek longer endurance, it may be attracted by the potential cost savings of a nuclear auxiliary powered submarine compared to a SSN.


nam
BRFite
Posts: 545
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 01 Nov 2017 00:19

AdityaM wrote:
nam wrote:The fact that they had dispersed over large area and had air defense tells how sh** scared they are of IAF attacks. This does not indicate a offensive posture.

Being prudent doesn’t imply being shit scared.


Sure and it is also Chinese dhoti shivering.

If this was an offensive deployment, they wouldn't be spread over such a large area.

They are expecting to be attacked and are taking the threat seriously. This despite the fact that it was Chinese beating the war drums with "shake the PLA mountain" and India will be defeated in a week's time.

Also the realization that flat open Tibet plateau, it is not easy to hide from air/missile attacks.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4121
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 02 Nov 2017 05:13

India began biggest drill during Doklam crisis
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 89393.html

Even as the military standoff between India and China was on Doklam plateau, the Indian Army carried out its biggest exercise, involving actual war gaming with troops, in the Himalayas. The 74-day standoff (June 16 to August 28) did not come in the way of Army’s 17 Corps to conduct its scheduled two-month-long exercise that commenced in the first week of August and ended just a week before Diwali. The 17 Corps is also known as the Mountain Strike Corps. A brigade-strength (around 3,500 men) exercise was carried out in strategically located Eastern Ladakh. Though this could have sent a message to China that Delhi was ramping up, the exercise was carried out.Eastern Ladakh, part of Jammu and Kashmir, shares 826-km frontier with China and is geographically defined as the area from Karakoram Pass in the north to Demchok in the south-east.

Eastern Ladakh—a barren landscape dotted with high mountains and equally high passes—has been virtually militarily “tailored” to prevent a repeat of 1962—when China, with a few exceptions, literally overran the Indian military defences. Indian war gaming aimed at stopping the People Liberation Army’s (PLA) of China, in case of a war in the sector. This includes a method of getting real-time updates on Chinese movement using satellite imagery; countering their patrols along the disputed Line of Actual Control (LAC)—the de facto border—with own patrols; maintaining a minimum level of firepower and future stationing of fighter jets at Leh, the key airbase in Ladakh. The Army has already stationed three regiments of tanks in Ladakh. India and China have differing perception along the LAC, including Pangong Tso. The sub-sector north, which includes Depsang plains at 18,000 feet and also the areas abutting the Aksai Chin and Galwan, is among the other flashpoints.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4121
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 02 Nov 2017 05:14

^^^

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/925029480132894720 --> Judging by the report, I wonder if one of 17 Corps planned independent infantry brigades carried out this exercise.

https://twitter.com/sjha1618/status/925029685305655296 --> 17 or XVII Corps is of course the newly raised Mountain Strike Corps, also known as Brahmastra Corps.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4121
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 02 Nov 2017 05:15

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 5033892864 --> A Border Personnel Meeting was held at Bum La (15,200 feet) in the Tawang Sector along the McMahon Line between Indian and Chinese troops earlier today. Indian delegation led by Brig MP Singh, Tawang Brigade Commander.

Image

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 02 Nov 2017 10:09

It looks like the chinis will be putting EMALS in an 80K-ton conventional carrier with an integrated power system (IPS.)

http://m.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2117947/breakthrough-power-most-advanced-jet-launch-system


Breakthrough to power most advanced jet launch system on China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier


Military chiefs have given green light for new integrated propulsion system capable of powering electromagnetic catapults, experts say

Minnie Chan

UPDATED : Wednesday, 1 Nov 2017, 11:47PM

A technological breakthrough in naval propulsion will enable China’s second home-grown aircraft carrier to use the world’s most advanced jet launch system without having to resort to nuclear power, overcoming a huge hurdle in the vessel’s development, military sources said.

The development of the integrated propulsion system (IPS) would allow the vessel to be more efficient, allowing more power for an electromagnetic catapult, rather than a less technologically advanced steam-driven catapult launch system, the sources said.

Image


Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19924
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 07 Nov 2017 10:42

China just showed its hypersonic-BGV in a vid on 08 Oct. Probably a test design model, but AFAIK this is first pics of an actual object

https://twitter.com/soraywang/status/927286374193012736

Image
Image
Image

Khalsa
BRFite
Posts: 1016
Joined: 12 Nov 2000 12:31
Location: NZL

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Khalsa » 07 Nov 2017 13:14

chola wrote:It looks like the chinis will be putting EMALS in an 80K-ton conventional carrier with an integrated power system (IPS.)
Image
[/quote]

Smart move !!
EMALS and flattop instead of jumpSki !!

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Nov 2017 16:02

Khalsa wrote:
chola wrote:It looks like the chinis will be putting EMALS in an 80K-ton conventional carrier with an integrated power system (IPS.)
Image


Smart move !!
EMALS and flattop instead of jumpSki !!



It is the only logical move if you want to be relevant in carrier operations. It is the same move that the IN has to make for IAC II.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Nov 2017 16:19

Austin wrote:China just showed its hypersonic-BGV in a vid on 08 Oct. Probably a test design model, but AFAIK this is first pics of an actual object

https://twitter.com/soraywang/status/927286374193012736

Image
Image
Image


We will be seeing all kinds of Star Wars monstrosities in their giant MACH 9 JF-12 wind tunnel.


Writeup of this weapon at the USI.
http://usiofindia.org/Article/?pub=Strategic%20Perspective&pubno=39&ano=2197

Hypersonic Weapons : Is India Prepared For the Next War?

Col Saif Ul Islam Khan*

Introduction

A new flying platform travelled the length of Chinese territory in January 2014 as China conducted the flight of its new hypersonic vehicle[1]. This is major step forward in China’s strategic nuclear and conventional strike capability as it gives China the ability to strike long distances in a very short span of time.

‘The New Year’ for India thus started with a new challenge as she found her skies subject to penetration by a potential adversary, and her territories open to easy targeting.

chola
BRFite
Posts: 1737
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Nov 2017 16:52

Latest photo of their Z-20 copyhawk in Tibet

Image

This might be a real reverse-engineering project. Unlike the Flanker which took less than a decade for an exact version to be made, the Z-20 took close to 30 years to clone from Blackhawks imported during the 1980s and is not an exact copy owing to lack of OEM support.

Time comparison of a TOT with OEM support versus RE without:

J-11
initial access — 1998 (Su-27SK license)
first flight of copy — 2004 (J-11B with AL-31)
induction — 2007 (J-11B in PLAAF with WS-10 engine)

Z-20
initial access — 1984 (import of S-70C-2 Blackhawk)
first flight of copy — 2013 (Z-20 with P&W PTC6)
induction — 2017? PLA eval unit? at best LSP not mass production

RE takes decades longer than ToT and the copies are not exact to make most of domestic parts. TOT like the J-11 are exact clones of the product sold and development of variants is lightning fast with help from the OEM (provided you negotiated a proper license.) In the J-11 case, this included a re-engine and a carrier variant, all done concurrently inside a decade.

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2718
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby JayS » 07 Nov 2017 17:08

Austin wrote:China just showed its hypersonic-BGV in a vid on 08 Oct. Probably a test design model, but AFAIK this is first pics of an actual object

https://twitter.com/soraywang/status/927286374193012736

Image
Image
Image


Pictures not very clear, but looks like wave-rider concept.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60479
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 09 Nov 2017 08:23

https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017110610 ... clamation/

cheen inducts a gigantic dredger for creating artificial islands quickly



Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aditya_V, Austin, Google [Bot], Zynda and 54 guests