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China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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SaiK
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby SaiK » 01 Mar 2018 16:32

Indian military scrambles to keep up after China moves to put forces in Africa

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/28/militar ... ocean.html

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby SSridhar » 01 Mar 2018 18:04

China plans to build nuclear aircraft carrier: Reports - AP
Chinese media reports say the country is planning to build a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier capable of remaining at sea for long durations, in what would be a major upgrade for its increasingly formidable navy.

The China Shipbuilding Industry Corp. issued a statement this week saying initial work had begun on the ship, the Communist Party newspaper Global Times and Hong Kong's South China Morning Post said Thursday.

The company's statement Tuesday, which the newspapers said also mentioned the development of new types of nuclear submarines and other sophisticated technologies, was a rare revelation about China's long-term naval expansion plans.

On Thursday, however, no mention of nuclear carriers or other such technologies could be found on its website. The Post said the original statement had been replaced with a new one.

The Global Times report quoted the CSIC statement as saying the company saw the need to ``accelerate the realization of nuclear powered aircraft carriers, new-type nuclear submarines, quiet-type submarines'' and various other sophisticated naval warfare technologies.

The goal was to ``provide high-quality weapon systems for the navy's strategic transition to a deep blue high seas force by 2025,'' {In the recent 19th Congressw, Xi said that PLA's modernization would be completed by c. 2035}
the newspaper quoted the statement as saying.

A man who answered the phone Thursday at the company's news office said it was ``not a convenient time to respond'' to questions about the report. There was no immediate response to questions faxed to the company.

CSIC was responsible for extensively refurbishing China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaonig, which arrived as a mostly empty hull from Ukraine, and for building the country's sole domestically produced carrier, which is expected to enter service later this year. Both are conventionally fueled and must take on regular deliveries of oil.

Nuclear carriers such as the U.S. Navy's Nimitz class can operate for 20 years without refueling.

China has the world's largest navy in terms of numbers of ships, although it lags behind the U.S. in technology and combat capabilities.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 01 Mar 2018 19:47

^^^ Hardly a surprise. The chini carrier pathway had been established for years now in the chini watchers community (which seems to include a large number of US mil or ex mil members) :

1) Type 001 (Varyag),
2) Type 001A (Varyag clone),
3) Type 002 (CV CATOBAR) and
4) Type 003 (CVN CATOBAR).

Andrew Erickson (US Naval War College) fleshed out the PLAN’s plan by looking at a model maker of all things in 2014. Fascinating read not only on the Chini plans but also the Amreeki thought process of research and deduction:
http://www.andrewerickson.com/2014/06/is-this-a-model-of-chinas-next-aircraft-carrier/

We might be next door to Cheen but the American understanding of the PRC is infinitely greater.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 01 Mar 2018 20:35

China just built a new railway station in an unbelievable 9 hours using sev. teams working simultaneously. Their speed of construction is probably unmatched, SoKo is v.good too.However, China is a Pacific power predominantly., the Asian part being mainly land oriented.It is challenged by at least 6-8 USN large CVs, why it is looking at such a CV.Supporting 4+ CVs will tax and task the PLAN substantiality, in supporting surface warships for the CBGs.India with 3 med-sized carriers plus LR maritime strike operating from mainland and islands, will be sufficient to sanitise the IOR.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2018 21:09

Video of Chinese DF-10 Cruise Missile Test , Seems rapid fire

https://sputniknews.com/military/201803 ... sile-test/

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2018 22:05


chola
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 01 Mar 2018 22:14

Philip wrote:It is challenged by at least 6-8 USN large CVs, why it is looking at such a CV.Supporting 4+ CVs will tax and task the PLAN substantiality, in supporting surface warships for the CBGs.India with 3 med-sized carriers plus LR maritime strike operating from mainland and islands, will be sufficient to sanitise the IOR.


At any given time, there will be around two US carrier groups in northwest Pacific not 6-8 (US commitment is global and maintenance means only 1/3 of available 11 carriers is available during peace time.)

The Chinis looks like they will field six carriers in the immediate future — two 001 Varyag types, two Type 002 CVs and two Type 003 CVNs — to give themselves two active carriers within a regular maintenance schedule. Types 002 and 003 will be built in pairs (according to this scenario.)

With two active, they will be in the IOR only during peace time. Main function would be to show the flag along chini trade routes.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 01 Mar 2018 22:32

It takes a lot to deploy with a carrier strike group, and you cannot always be deployed with the presence mission as this takes away from other tasks associated with maintenance, training, upgrades etc etc. As Chola mentions the ratio is usually 1 forward deployed carrier, one ready to deploy carrier and one carrier in maintenance so shrink the total fleet by a third during most of the times. PACOM is important but it is not the only COCOM that needs a carrier at any given time so if 3-4 carriers are forward deployed you will at most have 2 in one COCOM.

But then this is where the Gator Navy comes in with their Lightning Carrier concepts. By 2020 they plan to deploy on their first Capstone to test out the 16-20 F-35B carrier concept. https://s9.postimg.org/m5ic9jztb/LHA-6.jpg . Japan will also likely turn the Izumo to something similar..just a matter of time as the Chinese offensive capability builds up.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 02 Mar 2018 07:17

Austin wrote:Video of Chinese DF-10 Cruise Missile Test , Seems rapid fire

https://sputniknews.com/military/201803 ... sile-test/

Austin - that video is massively edited to make it look rapid fire. I do a lot of video editing myself and with a little practice this is not difficult.

A 5 sec the mijjile on the extreme right fires off. As it fires off the middle missile door is shut - but the door is magically open one frame later as debris falls in front of it. The debris itself simply vanishes as it falls in front of the driver's cabin and the air is clear of smoke one frame later. Again after the 7th second and the firing off of the second missile - some debris is seen falling up to the level of the 3rd missile door and suddenly the debris simply vanishes. These are 3 clips from the same launch video joined up after snipping off the video in the time gap between missile launches for propagandu effect.

It is bullshit like this that makes me feel that the Chinese are bullshitters of the first order - but I don't blame them. The rest of us are jackasses. We and the Chinese are made for each other.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 03 Mar 2018 09:16

The pace of building is inhuman. Not dhoti shivering but this shit is becoming scary.

The 3rd, 4th and 6th 13K-ton Type 055 at Dalian. The other 3 are at the yard in Shanghai. We only saw the first Type 055 this past summer.

The 16th and 17th Type 052Ds as well. It looks like they will continue building the 64 VLS 052D alongside the 112 VLS Type 055. Two types of DDGs concurrently?

From a Japani chini observer:
https://twitter.com/OedoSoldier/status/969442305458556928/photo/1

Image

A few pages back we had 21 J-10Cs stacked at Chengdu. And those new AWACS at Xian.

What the hell are they preparing for?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 03 Mar 2018 14:24

chola wrote:What the hell are they preparing for?

Maybe they are preparing for 30% serviceability of new untested hardware being churned out at an insane rate? Everyone else in the world has teething problems with new stuff that takes years to settle. The Chinese claim they have no such problems. Everything works fine, first time and forever. And of course I believe them. 400%

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 03 Mar 2018 21:51

My new video

Chinese Navy Access to the Indian Ocean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRBhZ2ATWqI

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby abhik » 05 Mar 2018 10:18

IMO the Chinese are "mass producing" only once they have iterated to a "good enough" design. A decade and half ago they were mass producing missile boats (which they now have a couple hundred of), they have since moved up the chain, checking off corvettes, frigates, amphibious ships and now the big boy destroyers. Next would be nuclear subs and aircraft carriers.
Regarding 30% availability, without a largish fleet it would not be possible to ensure even this - in spite of all their TFTA technology, the Germans currently don't have even one operational sub. Same with the Brits with their destroyers etc.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Mar 2018 11:47

^^You seem to have some inside information about the state of serviceabilty of German and British hardware no doubt from open publications that all of us can see. Do you have similar information sources about the serviceability rate of Chinese equipment. It is shameful if they have dozens of vessels with just 30% serviceability. That means that their tech is no better than what anyone else has and they are simply doing what the FSU did..producing huge numbers as a hedge against failure. Typically only 1/3 of vessels can be on patrol. One returning, one leaving and one for repair. So if only 30% are serviceable only 10 are ready for action no?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Mar 2018 13:21

to save on commute time it seems workers are allowed to cook rice and noodle on under construction ships..this looks like 052D
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Sid » 05 Mar 2018 13:36

Singha wrote:to save on commute time it seems workers are allowed to cook rice and noodle on under construction ships..this looks like 052D
Image


bloody hell, gas cylinder & full kitchen under ASM quad pack!! What could go wrong.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karthik S » 05 Mar 2018 13:41

They may not be loaded yet.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Mar 2018 14:55

its one of those many 052D ships under construction. that being said, with many flammable stuff lying around i would imagine this is not by the book. that seafood paella in the handi and the prawn noodles looks delicious though...would not mind a soupy bowl.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 05 Mar 2018 15:54

Loaded or not its risk to cook with gas cylinder around any accidental explosion will still cause material damage to the ship

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Mar 2018 19:17

embarassing wardrode slip vs the strong white robed , steel fisted, stone faced tfta vibe they like to project.
the poor guy is cooking for some 30 people looking at size of the handi, so looks like no onsite canteen for workers or they want to save time and keep the workers confined to the ship only - eat , drink, sleep, use portable loos and showers there.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Karthik S » 05 Mar 2018 19:26

The quad has been marked in English rather than Chinese. From the Chinese I've met, they hardly use any language other than Mandarin. Seems strange they marked in a phoren language.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Mar 2018 19:27

Singha wrote:to save on commute time it seems workers are allowed to cook rice and noodle on under construction ships..this looks like 052D
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXUD1L-U0AA38nx.jpg:large

Is this actually China, One of the packets has English/Roman text - also the newspaper with a non English language in Roman text.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Mar 2018 20:29

Sid wrote:
Singha wrote:to save on commute time it seems workers are allowed to cook rice and noodle on under construction ships..this looks like 052D
Image


bloody hell, gas cylinder & full kitchen under ASM quad pack!! What could go wrong.



LOL. I can imagine some sweaty chini cook in a wifebeater tee shirt stir frying noodles and cooking off a missile which streaks across the shipyard and holes a brand new destroyer being celebrated on the other side of the cove. As the new behemoth sinks, the assorted dignitaries and the band on the deck go running willy nilly knocking some into the water. We see the angry Admiral with water rising up to his waist as the ship sinks.

Cook stands paralyzed for a minute watching this and then runs for it, in his haste he runs into and knocks over the wok full of noodles upending the propane stove which also sends him over the rail and into the water, then the propane tank on the stove blows up aboard the ship as the scene fades away with sounds of screaming and yelling.

Yah, that would work well in a comedy. I need to write this script.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Khalsa » 07 Mar 2018 01:22

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:to save on commute time it seems workers are allowed to cook rice and noodle on under construction ships..this looks like 052D
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXUD1L-U0AA38nx.jpg:large

Is this actually China, One of the packets has English/Roman text - also the newspaper with a non English language in Roman text.


Doctor
I believe this maybe a photo of the latest Russian Frigate or Destroyer that the Vietnamese just inducted.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Bart S » 07 Mar 2018 02:38

Karthik S wrote:The quad has been marked in English rather than Chinese. From the Chinese I've met, they hardly use any language other than Mandarin. Seems strange they marked in a phoren language.


Chinese use English numbers for most things - you can see this on number plates of cars if you go to China.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 07 Mar 2018 22:31

052Ds do not have slant launchers, 052Cs are no longer in production, 054As have square canisters, and 056/As do not have quad launchers. That newspaper appears to be in Vietnamese, it's likely a Vietnamese warship.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Mar 2018 22:52

Hello Dave! Long time no see. And never mind upholding the honor of the Middle Kingdom by pawning the ad hoc kitchen off on Vietnam. We already said the noodles look tasty.

Please look at this and translate what is being said about the Z-20:
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 08 Mar 2018 08:30

Hans Kristensen
‏Verified account @nukestrat

DIA says China is developing “two new air-launched ballistic missiles, one of which may include a nuclear payload

Image

http://www.dia.mil/News/Speeches-and-Te ... ffer03bbe/

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 08 Mar 2018 09:47

More crying need for our own strat. bomber.IAF's myopia incredible.At least equip the IN with Backfires.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2018 09:55

matches the vietnamese gepard class . daymn didnt realize the urans had such huge tubes...some of our small ships carry 16 of these..perhaps klub is planned

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2018 09:57

the ALBM should be of similar mould as the Mig31 weapon right? a iskander with additional mach2 of launch speed and 50,000 feet height to extend range.

we can expect these on hard targets like airbases , static radars and POL storage sites

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 08 Mar 2018 18:52

chola wrote:Hello Dave! Long time no see. And never mind upholding the honor of the Middle Kingdom by pawning the ad hoc kitchen off on Vietnam. We already said the noodles look tasty.

Please look at this and translate what is being said about the Z-20:


Hmm, it's a bit cryptic, it says "Boss, a hot pot to go" as in ordering at a restaurant. Not sure what it's meant to say.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 08 Mar 2018 21:29

DavidD wrote:
chola wrote:Hello Dave! Long time no see. And never mind upholding the honor of the Middle Kingdom by pawning the ad hoc kitchen off on Vietnam. We already said the noodles look tasty.

Please look at this and translate what is being said about the Z-20:


Hmm, it's a bit cryptic, it says "Boss, a hot pot to go" as in ordering at a restaurant. Not sure what it's meant to say.


It is hinting that it is in regular day to day use? Or somewhere where hot pot takeout is the norm?

You people are so inscrutable. But I like it, chini watching is fun that way. The artwork in your forums are simply delectable. I would say PROFESSIONAL grade from my layman’s perspective. I have never seen any other forum with anywhere near this level of artwork, especially the computer-generated stuff but also the hand-drawn stuff like these cartoons.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 08 Mar 2018 23:08

Singha wrote:the ALBM should be of similar mould as the Mig31 weapon right? a iskander with additional mach2 of launch speed and 50,000 feet height to extend range.

we can expect these on hard targets like airbases , static radars and POL storage sites


Last year, the US tested a nearly 4000 km BGV in support of the CPGS program which is now transitioning to the Navy and will be integrated to subs and VLS as per requirements. The aim is to go after C2 and long range targeting complexes (some graphics even point to going after mobile launchers) that allow China to launch medium to intermediate range anti-ship ballistic missiles and other weapons from range that can deny USN ships access. Moving launch and targeting to the air was an expected/anticipated answer to such a move as the US itself gamed out and experimented with these things in the 60s and 70s. To the targets you guessed, I'd be comfortable with adding ships as well. Their BMs can already target ships so no reason to believe that this will not be a part of the target set.

A good collection of ALBM work HERE

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Zynda » 09 Mar 2018 18:57

China sure seems to continue being enterprising. It seems like UTC Aerospace Systems are supplying various components (not sure if nacelle is included...although Wiki states that Nexcelle (competitor to UTC) is supplying nacelle & thrust reversing systems to Comac). Both companies are of US origin...technically Nexcelle is a JV between GE & Safran Nacelles. I am sure Comac & Chinese subsidiaries will be busy trying to reverse engineering as I type but clever of Chinese to enlist help where required. Major sub-systems suppliers like UTAS will be more than willing to diversify their clientèle. In fact, UTC was (is?) also supplying control systems actuators among others to Irkut MS-21 program.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 09 Mar 2018 20:50

^^^ Enterprising yes but not surprising when you consider they are the top trading nation globally. They are as or more hooked into the global supply chain as anyone. The PRC is simply a different beast. How many dictatorships are so connected to the outside world — trade, tourism, education, etc.? Would be nice if they were like NoKo or the old USSR.

I think their assault on the Boeing/Airbus duopoly will be long-term and it will be grounded in their home market. The home market is where their dictatorial/authoritarian side helps them. They’ll get there eventually because unlike Japan or any of the other smaller markets, the costs will not overwhelm them since they have a massive captive market. We are the only one with a comparable potential market but we cannot control ours in the same fashion they do theirs.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby VinodTK » 10 Mar 2018 01:42

China's Air Force May Soon Get More Russian Su-35 Fighters
Moscow and Beijing may have struck a deal.

China's Air Force May Soon Get More Russian Su-35 Fighters
Beijing is happy with the speed and quality of first Su-35 delivery, but makes local production prerequisite of more orders

Multiple sources within Russia and the People’s Liberation Army Air Force suggest that Beijing and Moscow may have struck a preliminary deal for procurement by the PLAAF of more of Russian-made Sukhoi Su-35 fighters.

Hong Kong-based military monthly Kanwa Defense Review reported in February that the second batch of the highly maneuverable aircraft with thrust-vectoring engines had already descended on PLA airbases in southern China.

Among those tipped as the likely locations to service and hangar the multi-role air-superiority fighters is the Suixi airbase in southern China’s Guangdong province, which is under the PLA’s Southern Theater Command.

Several Su-35s joined the PLA’s recent circumnavigations of Taiwan and air patrols above the South China Sea, along with Su-30s, H-6K bombers and jammer aircraft.

In November 2015, the PLA became the first export customer for the Su-35 after Moscow and Beijing signed a US$2 billion contract for the purchase of 24 of the fighters. The first four aircraft were delivered in December 2016.

Citing sources within the Russian defense industry, the magazine noted that Su-35 producer Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Plant had been canvassing more orders after satisfactory feedback from the PLA about the speed and quality of the initial delivery batch.

The Su-35 was a modernized derivative of the Su-27 fighters earmarked for export in the late 1980s, but the disintegration of the Soviet Union and the West’s arms embargo clipped its wings, until orders from Beijing threw a lifeline.

Subsequent improvements have also been made to its cockpit, structural design and weapons-control system over the years.

It’s also said that Beijing has made it clear that more orders can only come under the parameters of knowledge transfer and localized production of some sub-systems and avionics, a tried and true tactic to replicate overseas technologies for cheaper, home-made alternatives.

Still, analysts say Russia may be willing to oblige now that there is a genuine rapport between the two powers, and a plethora of bilateral co-development and co-production of weapons and planes – ranging from cruise missiles to wide-body airliners – is also making headway.

Moscow curtailed arms transfers and cooperation around 2005 over Chinese reverse engineering of weapons systems, especially aircraft engines and components.

But now it has also agreed to sell China advanced S-400 air and missile defense systems, among others, after several years of lobbying by Beijing.

Meanwhile, the Indonesian Air Force also finalized the purchase contract for 11 Su-35s in February, with the first delivery expected by October. India and the United Arab Emirates are reportedly mulling possible purchases as well.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kit » 10 Mar 2018 02:35

VinodTK wrote:China's Air Force May Soon Get More Russian Su-35 Fighters
Moscow and Beijing may have struck a deal.

China's Air Force May Soon Get More Russian Su-35 Fighters
Beijing is happy with the speed and quality of first Su-35 delivery, but makes local production prerequisite of more order

Still, analysts say Russia may be willing to oblige now that there is a genuine rapport between the two powers, and a plethora of bilateral co-development and co-production of weapons and planes – ranging from cruise missiles to wide-body airliners – is also making headway.

Moscow curtailed arms transfers and cooperation around 2005 over Chinese reverse engineering of weapons systems, especially aircraft engines and components.

But now it has also agreed to sell China advanced S-400 air and missile defense systems, among others, after several years of lobbying by Beijing.

Meanwhile, the Indonesian Air Force also finalized the purchase contract for 11 Su-35s in February, with the first delivery expected by October. India and the United Arab Emirates are reportedly mulling possible purchases as well.


The Russians seem to be banking on the short term tide over handing over current tech while busy making the next gen tech., 5 gen fighter, and the next gen S 500 defence system.They will try to recoup some of that through sales to India.( overcharging could help and saying " we will give you better options than china")

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 10 Mar 2018 14:46

One fails to understand US and EU motives reg. Russia.The CW ended, the West won mainly becos of superior economic factors .The former Warsaw Pact states were inveigled into joining the EO, German reunification took place with great detriment to E.Germans still nostalgic about the old days and job security, state services, etc.
What happened next was that
the greed of the arch- capitalist saw them lust after the huge natural wealth of Russia and former republics.Thanks to drunken Yeltsin they along with certain oligarchs looted the state.

Putin put an end to state looting which is the main reason why the West hates him.Secondly, he has restored to a great extent Russia's military might , especialu its strat. forces, and has prevented a full takeover of the UKR by the West, regaining the Crimea in the process. The sanctions imposdd by the US and EU failed to work.zRussia again ddcisively intervened in Syria, routing IZIS and the US/Sunni Arab backed mercenaries and "rebels".

In punishjng Russia, the West has only forced Russia and China, threatrned by a maritime "militia" of naval forces of varying nations (including a servile India to US diktat)
against it, has forced them to put aside their differences and enter into a "quasi" ally relationshp against the US in particular. This is why India should tread very carefully on the " quad", but instead as at MILAN, going on right now, bring together like-minded nations under the lbenign leadership of India in forming a collective security architecture avoiding the risk of getting enmeshed in power- bloc spats , provinb detrimental to our sovereign
riights and interests.


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