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China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 05 Aug 2017 00:58


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 05 Aug 2017 01:00

Yes clutter will be a concern over this area hence you will require more modern digital radars with better processing and clutter rejection techniques and additional gap filler sensors to compensate. These will all be placed in strategically important areas where they also utilize geography and altitude to their advantage (this is shown in the article in terms of the deployed elevation etc). Overall, however this problem will persist to some extent - its comes with the geography. This is also why you can't really walk out and set up a radar anywhere you like without running into these and other issues. They would have surveyed and mapped sites for both mobile long range radars and gap filler radars to account for clutter etc.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 06:36

Cross post from shiver thread
Folks this image intrigued me. There is one young man on the frontline with glasses
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9yzG22_bfh4/U ... sonnel.jpg

Then, on a hunch I started searching

Image

Image

The myopia boom
The southern city of Guangzhou has long held the largest eye hospital in China. But about five years ago, it became clear that the Zhongshan Ophthalmic Center needed to expand.

More and more children were arriving with the blurry distance vision caused by myopia, and with so many needing eye tests and glasses, the hospital was bursting at the seams. So the centre began adding new testing rooms — and to make space, it relocated some of its doctors and researchers to a local shopping mall. Now during the summer and winter school holidays, when most diagnoses are made, “thousands and thousands of children” pour in every day, says ophthalmologist Nathan Congdon, who was one of those uprooted. “You literally can't walk through the halls because of all the children.”


I am sure a lot of Chinese children get eliminated from joining the PLA if they have Myopia. But those who become myopic after joining will need glasses

Reading instruments, sighting one's rifle etc are a problem for people who need glasses

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 06:39

Here's an academic paper
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27968833/
In nine population-based studies with up to 560 000 child and adult participants, the prevalence of myopia was about 80% in 18-year-old school children and 17% in adults aged 40 years and older.


A lot of young people will get eliminated from PLA service because they are short sighted. Of yes the Chinese have enough people but this is yet another demographic bomb.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 05 Aug 2017 08:00

If you operate in a Swarm, you only need to see the soldiers next to you. Since Chinese soldiers are just cannon fodder sent for the entertainment of the Politburo, they don't have to have any sort of longer-range vision, either optical or mental.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby negi » 05 Aug 2017 11:12

Even IA allows people with Myopia to join it used to be -1.5 dioptres in my time I am not sure about now.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Aug 2017 12:09

the last time i saw so many young ppl with glasses was in a iit cinema auditorium.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 12:51

From Googal for Indian army
candidate should be able to read 6/6 in a distant vision chart with each eye with or without glasses. Myopia should not be more than 3.5D and hypermetropia not more than 3.5D including Astigmatism.
I suspect that a need for glasses will exclude some people from some roles. I doubt if any army will deliberately recruit someone with high myopia and subject them to surgical correction in the army. Need to check IAF and IN requirements as well

IAF reqt here
http://www.ssbcrack.com/2013/07/vision- ... ranch.html

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby tsarkar » 05 Aug 2017 13:59

Folks, vision or other physical challenges isnt terribly strategically detrimental in combat.

Major Bhaskar Roy, Maha Vir Chakra

https://www.facebook.com/Indianarmy.adg ... =3&theater

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_Lancers_(India)

The Mongolian general Subutai was old and obese yet led Mongolian invasion to Europe

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_ ... ganization

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subutai

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby tsarkar » 05 Aug 2017 14:10

Secondly, GoI and the Indian Army are doing the right thing.

GOI is very wisely keeping quite instead of Nehru who relished his verbosity

IA instead of the disasterous Nehru Krishna Menon forward policy is adopting a strategy similar to Vietnam where forces are preparing and working up in areas where terrain & logistic advantages favour us and negate the advantage of manpower and firepower.

Those dhoti shivering looking at photos of cruise missiles and rockets please note the following -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khe_Sanh
During the battle, a massive aerial bombardment campaign (Operation Niagara) was launched by the United States Air Force to support the Marine base. Over 100,000 tons of bombs were dropped until mid-April by aircraft of the Air Force, US Navy and Marines onto the area surrounding Khe Sanh.[26] This was roughly 1,300 tons of bombs dropped daily–five tons for every one of the 20,000 NVA soldiers initially estimated to have been committed to the fighting at Khe Sanh.[27] In addition, 158,000 large-caliber shells were fired on the hills surrounding the base.[28][29] This expenditure of aerial munitions dwarfs the amount of munitions fired by artillery, which totals eight shells per NVA soldier believed to have been on the battlefield


Yet the US withdrew in the end. As we discovered in Kargil, firing shells only hits rocks and is useless unless it hits and kills a human opposing you. And despite lasers, IR etc, technology will never ever beat strategy & fieldcraft.

Image

Please tell me which radar laser designator thermal imager Chinese missile rocket can scan the terrain in the photo for well fortified stone sangars masking heat and housing MMGs?

In 1962 Nehru spoke while Mao , Zhou en Lai kept quite. Check the contrast now.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Aug 2017 16:54

Pressure at sea as well.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2105359/chinas-first-home-grown-aircraft-carrier-could-join

China’s first home-grown aircraft carrier could join the navy ahead of schedule

Early service for the Type 001A points to China speeding up its effort to build a navy that can secure trade routes and challenge the US in the South China Sea

Minnie Chan
UPDATED : Friday, 4 Aug 2017, 11:53PM


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 17:01

tsarkar wrote:Folks, vision or other physical challenges isnt terribly strategically detrimental in combat.

Myopia is not a crippling disease - at least when it starts. But when the army gets a young person whose myopia increases over time he will ultimately become a liability and a waste of resources requiring expensive treatment or discharge on medical grounds. The reports about Chinese are stunning - some of which say 90% of young Chinese have some degree of myopia. No one knows how much these will progress. But glasses are missing from PLA images. So either they are weeding out myopics or they do not allow glasses on parade. But if 90% have some degree of myopia it is going to hit recruitment. For example IAF does not accept myopia at all for recruitment. Anyone with myopia is rejected.

Tattoos are known to be associated with Hepatitis C infection. Tattoos are not crippling. People with certain designated tattoos can join the Indian army but some of them, if infected, will later develop cirrhosis or liver cancer which the army will have to treat at great expense. So it is not just about combat readiness from disability but the act of recruiting a liability

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 05 Aug 2017 19:49

Hep C is pretty treatable now though. Not too sure about myopia in the military, but I doubt any air force accepts pilots with any eye condition. Even 20/20 may not be good enough.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 21:29

DavidD wrote:Hep C is pretty treatable now though. Not too sure about myopia in the military, but I doubt any air force accepts pilots with any eye condition. Even 20/20 may not be good enough.

Hep C medicines are relatively inexpensive and manufactured in India. They are comparatively expensive in the US I am told, But once cirrhosis occurs things start looking more grim

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DavidD » 05 Aug 2017 22:02

It's damn expensive in the US, though insurance covers it. Screening is easy though, so a systemic screening program can be done. Hep B is a much bigger problem in Asia, I don't know how Asian militaries view it.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby schinnas » 05 Aug 2017 22:16

Note: Edited to remove personal details.

Those not comfortable with glasses can wear contacts or go for lasik. With glasses I can read the tiniest of characters at a distance my non glass wearing friends would struggle to. Neither it affects my concentration nor my ability to hold steady. So what is the issue?

Lot of rules Indian army may have against those wearing glasses needs to be looked at again given the advancements in contact lenses, lasik surgeries, etc.
Last edited by schinnas on 06 Aug 2017 00:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Gaur » 05 Aug 2017 22:27

^^
When I had attempted, myopia till 3.5 was allowed in Army. For distant vision, requirement was 6/6 with glasses.
Lasik was not allowed. IIRC, reason was that lasik makes retina thin and can rupture during contact sports or combat.

I think same goes for IAF pilots (except for fighter pilots of course).

Couldn't find detailed medical requirements in Army website. But the following link looks about right:

http://ssbcrackexams.com/required-visual-standards-for-indian-army-indian-navy-indian-air-force/
Last edited by Gaur on 05 Aug 2017 22:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby yensoy » 05 Aug 2017 22:28

shiv wrote:Cross post from shiver thread
Folks this image intrigued me. There is one young man on the frontline with glasses
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9yzG22_bfh4/U ... sonnel.jpg

The southern city of Guangzhou has long held the largest eye hospital in China. But about five years ago, it became clear that the Zhongshan Ophthalmic Center needed to expand.



Southern Chinese are not the target for PLA. It's the northerners who are the "martial classes". North is North of Yangze, the further North you go the better.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby darshhan » 05 Aug 2017 22:35

yensoy wrote:
shiv wrote:Cross post from shiver thread
Folks this image intrigued me. There is one young man on the frontline with glasses
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9yzG22_bfh4/U ... sonnel.jpg




Southern Chinese are not the target for PLA. It's the northerners who are the "martial classes". North is North of Yangze, the further North you go the better.


A chinese guy once told me that it is the manchus who are the martial race of china. Hans are useless.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby yensoy » 05 Aug 2017 22:41

^^^^ There's still bad blood. Qing dynasty - the last Emperors - were Manchus. But with race, it's all a continuum since there has been a lot of intermarriage (some of it forced, in order to encourage assimilation). Which is why the further North you go, the more Manchu and martial Han influence you have.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 22:43

schinnas wrote:Lot of rules Indian army may have against those wearing glasses needs to be looked at again given the advancements in contact lenses, lasik surgeries, etc.

For that matter a man with a hernia - a perfectly treatable condition will not get into the army. He will have to have his hernia repaired surgically first. It is not the army's responsibility to detect diseases which the army will have to treat over a soldier's life. The army will take only people who they deem fit for the duties needed. The fact that many conditions can be treated has nothing to do with it. Treatment of medical conditions is for hospitals and doctors, not the army. Once a man is selected for the army -the army has a duty to treat him whatever happens. So they select only the people that will not become a medical burden in later life over and above the risks of army life. In India the taxpayer pays for that so the army is justified in their selection process

All OT for this thread. I am sure the PLAAF is rejecting people with high myopia. the question that I want an answer for is how many they have to reject per 1000 applicants due to high myopia

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby yensoy » 05 Aug 2017 22:49

^^^^ Close to zero maybe? Since it must be in the application form that those >x myopia can't apply so unless it's' undetected (hard to be undetected if you are at -3.5D) or the candidate is lying, they won't even apply.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2017 22:54

yensoy wrote:^^^^ Close to zero maybe? Since it must be in the application form that those >x myopia can't apply so unless it's' undetected (hard to be undetected if you are at -3.5D) or the candidate is lying, they won't even apply.

Provided they know they have myopia..Or they may come armed with arguments that it is treatable.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby deejay » 06 Aug 2017 08:03

shiv wrote:
schinnas wrote:Lot of rules Indian army may have against those wearing glasses needs to be looked at again given the advancements in contact lenses, lasik surgeries, etc.

For that matter a man with a hernia - a perfectly treatable condition will not get into the army. He will have to have his hernia repaired surgically first. It is not the army's responsibility to detect diseases which the army will have to treat over a soldier's life. The army will take only people who they deem fit for the duties needed. The fact that many conditions can be treated has nothing to do with it. Treatment of medical conditions is for hospitals and doctors, not the army. Once a man is selected for the army -the army has a duty to treat him whatever happens. So they select only the people that will not become a medical burden in later life over and above the risks of army life. In India the taxpayer pays for that so the army is justified in their selection process

All OT for this thread. I am sure the PLAAF is rejecting people with high myopia. the question that I want an answer for is how many they have to reject per 1000 applicants due to high myopia


Indian Armed forces are voluntary. We have surplus volunteers. We can be selective on whom to take in. Our medical standards would be different and more stringent from a conscripting army.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby AdityaM » 06 Aug 2017 18:38

Twitter user ‪@xinfengcao ‬has PLA pics to look at

Some dhoti shiver types:

Image

J-20 front view
Image

J-20 cockpit view
Image

What is a
Harpy anti-radiation loitering weapon:
Image


DF-16, DF-21D, DF-26, DF-31AG
ImageImageImageImage





Video of DF-31A & DF-31AG ICBM
https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/8 ... 8909210625

At the end of the video the canisters have an odd shape as if to accommodate the tail wings of a missile.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby sum » 06 Aug 2017 18:49

Dont know how well they work in reality but a very impressive and huge range of weaponry covering all segments!

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 06 Aug 2017 19:52

Nice roads. Could run 50 tanks simultaneously tanks to crush thousands of pro-democracy protesting children.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 06 Aug 2017 21:27

Why would any country pull out 20-24 frontine missiles from deployment to show them on parade when they should be sitting hidden away in places where they can't be easily detected?

No wait. I know. They are dummies. But why make 2 dozen dummies? For "show of strength" of course? Duh "Dummy show of strength??"

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 06 Aug 2017 21:48

shiv wrote:Why would any country pull out 20-24 frontine missiles from deployment to show them on parade when they should be sitting hidden away in places where they can't be easily detected?

No wait. I know. They are dummies. But why make 2 dozen dummies? For "show of strength" of course? Duh "Dummy show of strength??"


My first thought as well. Some of missiles feel light by looking at the way they shake as the trucks roll. Empty cans.

That said, it fits their strategy. You can't intimidate with hidden missiles.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2017 22:34

they learnt it from the soviet union


must be lot of dummy TELARs also to throw off satellite analysts and confuse counter force targeting

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ramana » 07 Aug 2017 03:52

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco_A ... m_Howitzer

The towed AH4 howitzer is a Chinese artillery system manufactured by Norinco.[1] Its main characteristic is that it has been designed to be lightweight, which allows greater tactical mobility. The weight of 4,500 Kg, compared to a traditional system that can weigh 18,000 Kg,[2] allows the system to be airlifted via heavy-lift helicopters like the CH-47 or Mi-26, or transport aircraft like a C-130 or Y-8. Also, as a modern howitzer system, it possesses a range of engagement of up to 40 Km using rocket-assisted projectiles.[1]
Because of its weight, the AH4 can be used in mountain warfare, which traditionally had to use pack howitzers like the OTO Melara Mod 56, but that proved to be ineffective because of its short range, and reliability due to its light barrel.[2]
Design[edit]
The body of the system has forward stabilizers as well as spades and dampers.[3] It has a cannon that can fire 155mm/39 calibre shells with an elevation angle from -3° up to 72° with a traverse limit of 22°. The hydro-pneumatic suspension allows for quick deployment of around 3 minutes and packing in 2 minutes.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 07 Aug 2017 06:45

Singha wrote:they learnt it from the soviet union
must be lot of dummy TELARs also to throw off satellite analysts and confuse counter force targeting


Yes but even a half baked Intel dept would track where these trucks go after the parade. See where they are parked and where they head off to even if they are dummies

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby AdityaM » 08 Aug 2017 22:21

Every day brings some new Chinese weapon. They seem to have invested money in critical technologies wisely.

Image
Image

From thread https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/8 ... 2739884033

As per Col. Bhat, its L-10.5m, W-15.5m

More info if you can decode this: https://wapbaike.baidu.com/item/利剑隐身无人攻击机

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby KrishnaK » 08 Aug 2017 22:30

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:they learnt it from the soviet union
must be lot of dummy TELARs also to throw off satellite analysts and confuse counter force targeting


Yes but even a half baked Intel dept would track where these trucks go after the parade. See where they are parked and where they head off to even if they are dummies
Impossible to track multiple groups going in different directions which could use other camouflage to hide their movements etc.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 08 Aug 2017 22:34

KrishnaK wrote:
shiv wrote:
Yes but even a half baked Intel dept would track where these trucks go after the parade. See where they are parked and where they head off to even if they are dummies
Impossible to track multiple groups going in different directions which could use other camouflage to hide their movements etc.

Yeah but if all went off to one storage location, it means that they are dummies waiting for the next parade. If they go to different storage locations - well follow what is possible and the direction in which they started heading. They could all be decoys - but some thing might show up like what they do to hide stuff. Or else not hiding them at all would mean they want that to be seen - that would require an explanation

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_Sharma » 08 Aug 2017 23:08

AdityaM wrote:E

Image



This is same as Ghatak design.
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 09 Aug 2017 04:23

Exclusive: Why Indian Air Force may best Chinese jets in an air battle over Tibet
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/exclusiv ... india-news

The lower density of air at high-altitude Tibetan bases prevents Chinese Air Force fighters such as the Su-27, J-11 or J-10 from taking off with a full complement of weapons and fuel. These aircraft would, therefore, enter a fight with the IAF at a severe disadvantage in the event of a conflict.

Profile of Squadron Leader Sameer Joshi from whom Vishnu Som wrote the above article from..

https://in.linkedin.com/in/sameer-joshi-97327a123

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 10 Aug 2017 09:49

Recent pic of Chinese Aircraft seen during Aviadarts 2017

Image
Image
Image


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 11 Aug 2017 16:52

Chinese Navy eyes Indian Ocean as part of plan to extend PLA reach
http://www.news18.com/news/india/chines ... 88661.html

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 11 Aug 2017 21:03

The plane looks pretty, but I can only see one wing pylon for an AAM (rocket pod in another image) and a wet pylon. I can only see 5 pylons (including both wings). In the pic below 3 have tanks. Any other pics of pylons?

Austin wrote:Image


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