China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

[Kartik]

S-26 submarine with AIP

China offers S-26 diesel submarine with Stirling AIP

The China Shipbuilding and Offshore International Corporation (CSOC) used the IDEX show in Abu Dhabi to market its S-26 conventional submarine for the first time with what it calls a "unique" version of the Stirling cycle engine air-independent propulsion (AIP) system.

Stirling cycle AIP systems use liquid oxygen and diesel fuel to power submarine electrical generators and extend submerged endurance.

A Stirling AIP has long been thought to equip the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) Type 039B Yuan-class submarine, which forms the basis for the S-26 export variant.

A submarine model on display at IDEX and a new brochure clearly showed the S-26 has a large liquid oxygen tank to support its Stirling engine AIP.

CSOC officials would not provide an estimate of the submerged endurance for the S-26 model on display, saying it could be tailored to customer requirements.

Another industry source at IDEX familiar with AIP systems said that they doubted that the Chinese Stirling AIP, as configured, would provide submerged endurance for a week.

A CSOC brochure notes that its 2,660 ton displacement 'Conventional Submarine' has a length of 79.5 m, a beam of 8.6 m, maximum speed of 18 kt, a range of 8,000 n miles at 4 kt, and a maximum dive depth of 300 m.

[chola]

Started chini-watching on PKF a few months ago. I can see why so many gori watchers (both white and wheat colored ones) are into this shit. They have a constant stream of rumors, half-news and PSed photos that ultimately get confirmed (mostly) or debunked over the course of weeks, months and years.

It is actually fun to follow because they offer rewards (pictures) at the end of the journey. And just the vast number of projects makes following masti.

The fact that nearly all are proven true over time (J-10B, J-20, J-31, etc.) points to controlled leaks by PRC propaganda folks. HAL and the rest of our Mil-Indu Complex establishment should do the same if we want a following for "Make in India" planes, IFVS, rifles, lathis, etc.

The latest big ones are:

1. FOUR Type 055 with ~100 VLS are being built simultaneously. Possibly 8 already ordered.

2. New sub manufacturing building to spit out Type 95 SSNs

3. J-31 version 2 is taken up by the PLA Navy

4. Type 002 Carrier will be EMALS with ship-launched AWACS based on Y-7

Let's see how these turn out.

[NRao]

2nd (Chinese) carrier almost complete

[shiv]

2nd (Chinese) carrier almost complete

Amazing how people who read stuff on the internet like us become military experts

Most advanced aircraft carriers use the Electromagnetic Catapult System, or Electromagnetic launcher (EML), to launch carrier-based jets, but China is still testing steam catapults, Li said. "The main difference is that EMLs are more flexible and the system's speed can be controlled, so it can launch aircraft of different sizes."

"Most advanced carriers use EMALS" Someone please give me a list of these advanced carriers using EMALS. Even Jahweh .er Amreeka has not yet put its first EMALS carrier into service

[hnair]

Amazing how people who read stuff on the internet like us become military experts

You are reading it all wrong. The key objective of Cheen's carrier program is defined clearly:

"In other words, 002 is entirely different from the Liaoning (001) and 001A, and it will look like US aircraft carrier rather than a Russian one," Li said.

Dont underestimate Li.

[vina]

Amazing how people who read stuff on the internet like us become military experts

You are reading it all wrong. The key objective of Cheen's carrier program is defined clearly:

"In other words, 002 is entirely different from the Liaoning (001) and 001A, and it will look like US aircraft carrier rather than a Russian one," Li said.

Dont underestimate Li.

Ok. Let me see if I understood you correctly. The Chinese are now going to make a carrier that "looks" like a US carrier. In that i am sure Li will be fully successful.

However , I do have a question looks == works ?

[hnair]

However , I do have a question looks == works ?

Counter question: Are you a chinese citizen? if yes, then answer is also apparently yes.

[Liu]

However , I do have a question looks == works ?

Counter question: Are you a chinese citizen? if yes, then answer is also apparently yes.

AC would be sitting ducks and can not survive for severay days during wars among major powers like yankees.russky and china.

during such handshows, nuke subs will be the real decisive force.
one nuke sub missle sub can destroy one mid~size country like Uk. 5 nuke missle subs can bomb usa/russia/china to stone age.

AC nowdays are just plolice mission tool to bully small coutries .

[brar_w]

Its quite a delicate walk these days for Chinese posters when it comes to talking about carriers being obsolete in one breath and grabbing their pom-pom's while talking about half a dozen super carriers China intends on fielding in the medium term.

[shiv]

AC nowdays are just plolice mission tool to bully small coutries .

What about African countries who need to be dominated - oh I forgot that is for the J-20

More seriously - China has less experience than Thailand or Italy in carrier operations and if they give up so soon it means something is not working out right

[Liu]

AC nowdays are just plolice mission tool to bully small coutries .

What about African countries who need to be dominated - oh I forgot that is for the J-20

More seriously - China has less experience than Thailand or Italy in carrier operations and if they give up so soon it means something is not working out right

1.experience always is acqired and accumulated in missions.
one have ac active in missions, it will acqure necessory experience .

and china does.and it would keep a Ac fleet much more active than any other country but Usa. so chinA would accumulate Ac operation experience faster than any other country but Usa soon,including italy and tailand of course.

2. the goal of china AC fleet is not to push back USA,but to show mussle in the front of smll~mid size coutries and protect its oversea interest.

it is J20 ,df21/26 and nukes that have been built by china to counter yankees.


3.china is investing all over the earth, and she knows yankees ac fleet are not so warmhearted to defend chinese oversea investment in 3rd world.
so, china build AC now, and does it by itstself.

[ranjan.rao]

^^welcome back Liu,

during such handshows, nuke subs will be the real decisive force.
one nuke sub missle sub can destroy one mid~size country like Uk. 5 nuke missle subs can bomb usa/russia/china to stone age.

Only if the nuke sub is not tailed and sunk , and yeah a nuke sub sunk is also much easier to hide, save face than an aircraft carrier

[ranjan.rao]

Its quite a delicate walk these days for Chinese posters when it comes to talking about carriers being obsolete in one breath and grabbing their pom-pom's while talking about half a dozen super carriers China intends on fielding in the medium term.

so many aircraft carriers for sea policing and mussle to strong african nations. One geniune question? Does chinese the chinese police carry Type 99 for policing in Peking?

[chola]

If it is only to show "mussle" then all a chini carrier needs to do is look the part. It doesn't actually needs to work.

All said and done, this is a good thing. Whether it works or not, a PRC CATOBAR can kick off a carrier arms race in Asia that will enhance abilities all around.

When the European powers were competing with one another, their men o' wars ended up in Chennai, Hong Kong and Yokahama bristling with cannons that cowed the local browns and yellows into submission for next several centuries.

It would be karma to see an IN CBG sailing through the English Channel and a PLAN one rounding Ireland with decks full of aircraft giving whites a taste of their medicine.

[TSJones]

the chinese carriers are meant to cower its neighbors and to offset US asian influence.

the only taste of medicine china is going to dish out is keeping its overseas customers happy with cheap goods to shop for.

and it knows it,

[chola]

the chinese carriers are meant to cower its neighbors and to offset US asian influence.

Well duh. Obviously.

the only taste of medicine china is going to dish out is keeping its overseas customers happy with cheap goods to shop for.

and it knows it,

The Asian power dishing out the medicine might very well not be China. Competition is good.

[Liu]

Its quite a delicate walk these days for Chinese posters when it comes to talking about carriers being obsolete in one breath and grabbing their pom-pom's while talking about half a dozen super carriers China intends on fielding in the medium term.

so many aircraft carriers for sea policing and mussle to strong african nations. One geniune question? Does chinese the chinese police carry Type 99 for policing in Peking?

only 1 of 3 Ac can be assured to be active anytime.

thus,6 AC just means only 2 of 6 ones are active anytime.

china usually has leave active one AC group to look after its neighbours near south/east china sea,so only one can wander freely

[shiv]

china usually has leave active one AC group to look after its neighbours near south/east china sea,so only one can wander freely

Don't you think neighbouring countries will become very interested in carrier sinking weapons?

[shiv]

S-26 submarine with AIP

China offers S-26 diesel submarine with Stirling AIP

This is out of my "depth" so could someone tell me of real life practical applications of Stirling cycle engines?

[Liu]

china usually has leave active one AC group to look after its neighbours near south/east china sea,so only one can wander freely

Don't you think neighbouring countries will become very interested in carrier sinking weapons?

to sink AC need expensive AC-trailing/locating infrasture ,such as dozens of satilites,drones.
china can afford expensive AC～trailing/locating infrastructures such as space assets &drones.

chinese neighbours have neither fund nor tech to duplicate such infrastructures.


AC is weak to russia , china and Usa, but formdable to most small/mid stats.

[shiv]

Don't you think neighbouring countries will become very interested in carrier sinking weapons?

to sink AC need expensive AC-trailing/locating infrasture ,such as dozens of satilites,drones.
china can afford expensive AC～trailing/locating infrastructures such as space assets &drones.

chinese neighbours have neither fund nor tech to duplicate such infrastructures.

The neighbouring states have dozens of maritime patrol aircraft and even fishing boats that can be used as spotters of the Chinese fleet in the narrow confines of the littoral waters. There will be thousands of listening devices for realtime information. Not easy to get "lost". If you are speaking Pacific ocean it is a different issue

In your area there are a lot of unsinkable aircraft carriers and bases for surveillance platforms

[Austin]

S-26 submarine with AIP

China offers S-26 diesel submarine with Stirling AIP

This is out of my "depth" so could someone tell me of real life practical applications of Stirling cycle engines?

AIP for Subs , The Gotland class uses it for a long time

http://saab.com/naval/Submarines-and-Wa ... ng-Engine/

[Liu]

to sink AC need expensive AC-trailing/locating infrasture ,such as dozens of satilites,drones.
china can afford expensive AC～trailing/locating infrastructures such as space assets &drones.

chinese neighbours have neither fund nor tech to duplicate such infrastructures.

The neighbouring states have dozens of maritime patrol aircraft and even fishing boats that can be used as spotters of the Chinese fleet in the narrow confines of the littoral waters. There will be thousands of listening devices for realtime information. Not easy to get "lost". If you are speaking Pacific ocean it is a different issue

In your area there are a lot of unsinkable aircraft carriers and bases for surveillance platforms

china has more space assets than anyone else but Usa.

china exports/produces more drones than anyone and its drone tech is almost neck by neck with USA.

china has best supercomputer tech on the earth.


china has world first class telecom producers like HUawei and ZTE.


Besides,chinese government has better cash flew than most states

it is because china has the above 5 preconditons that china can trail/moniter/lock cruising AC groups anytime

but,most chinese neighbours even have none of the above 5 preconditions.


if anyone can trail/moniter/lock cruising AC groups, it would not so hard to destroy them.
but not everyone can do it(maybe except USA/RUSSIA/CHINA).

[vina]

but,chinese neighbours have none of the above 5 preconditions.

What if someone from outside of China's maritime neighbours give them those conditions like weapons and early warning and intelligence and training and other systems that make it untenable for the Chinese Navy to go to do sea control with carriers?

[Liu]

but,chinese neighbours have none of the above 5 preconditions.

What if someone from outside of China's maritime neighbours give them those conditions like weapons and early warning and intelligence and training and other systems that make it untenable for the Chinese Navy to go to do sea control with carriers?

yankee has problem of cash flew.

if USA had enough cash flew, USA would be the sole one that has the above preconditons at the same time,except china.

Except money,Usa also needs time to engineer such a huge AC～trailing/monitering system.

it took China over one decades to finish it.USA might be able to finish it a bit faster, had it enough money.


but here is a qustion :
why should USA spend so much money building such a expensve AC~trailing/monitering system,when USA has global largest AC fleet and nuke sub fleet?
it is much more economical for yankees to destroy chinese AC with yankees' nuke sub fleet or AC fleet.


china built it, because it is more economical for china than to build/maintain dozens of AC groups like USA.

[Rishi Verma]

Noko use of VX to kill the other kim is said to be an attempt by Noko to show off it's chemical weapons capability. By logical extension, here China is showing their chemical weapons to the US

[chola]

What if someone from outside of China's maritime neighbours give them those conditions like weapons and early warning and intelligence and training and other systems that make it untenable for the Chinese Navy to go to do sea control with carriers?

yankee has problem of cash flew.

if USA had enough cash flew, USA would be the sole one that has the above preconditons at the same time,except china.

Except money,Usa also needs time to engineer such a huge AC～trailing/monitering system.

it took China over one decades to finish it.USA might be able to finish it a bit faster, had it enough money.

Bullshit. Your made up preconditions ignore the overwhelming fact that the US blankets the entire region with sensors. That the entire area is ringed by US bases.

The USN and USAF patrol right off your coast. When your pilot crashed into the EP-3, it was so close to your coast that it had to land in China and not fly back to its base in Okinawa.

Stop being such a fuc-ing idiot, Liu. Btw, I do enjoy following PLAN development. It is a historic buildup, much like that of the German fleet prior to WWI.

[Rishi Verma]

So liu's single nuclear submarine can send the US to stone age, Good do it as my mother in law is there. But Liu didn't finish the statement, "after which the US will send China to Jurassic age"

...US and China are neck by neck...

Liu could be a plofessor of english in england.

[Liu]

So liu's single nuclear submarine can send the US to stone age, Good do it as my mother in law is there. But Liu didn't finish the statement, "after which the US will send China to Jurassic age"

...US and China are neck by neck...

Liu could be a plofessor of english in england.

well, you suggest chinese nuke sub fleet is too small?

i do think so,too.

in order to prevent yankees having the idea of "send china to yurassic age", china need build a nuke sub fleet as large as USA.

i do think china is doing so.

and i do not think china is short of money , tech or shipyards.

the only that china needs now is time.

maybe in 3-5 years, you would notice a much larger PLAN NUKE SUB FLEET.

[Liu]

yankee has problem of cash flew.

if USA had enough cash flew, USA would be the sole one that has the above preconditons at the same time,except china.

Except money,Usa also needs time to engineer such a huge AC～trailing/monitering system.

it took China over one decades to finish it.USA might be able to finish it a bit faster, had it enough money.

Bullshit. Your made up preconditions ignore the overwhelming fact that the US blankets the entire region with sensors. That the entire area is ringed by US bases.

The USN and USAF patrol right off your coast. When your pilot crashed into the EP-3, it was so close to your coast that it had to land in China and not fly back to its base in Okinawa.

Stop being such a fuc-ing idiot, Liu. Btw, I do enjoy following PLAN development. It is a historic buildup, much like that of the German fleet prior to WWI.

Ep3 was over highseas(although very close to our coast) when clash happened, china had no execuse to shot down it.

case is quite different during wartime.

unless chinese airforce were completely crushed, yankees'EP3 and other sensors near china would be swept soon by china ,when yankees AC group would be worrying how to survive under drones/missles attack in seas neighbouring china.

military bases are much more easier to be locked and destroyed than crusing AC groups.

and yankees could not crush chinese airforce completely,unless yankees were to nuke china industry base.

as long as chinese almighty industry base is there, chinese airforce /navy fleet would become larger and larger day by day,however many aircrafts/warships yankees sinks.


thus, yankees AC group nowday would have no chance to survive around china during a war against china ,if Yankees were not to nuke china industry bases.

but dare yankees nuke china? all the world except taiwanese know yankees dare not.

so china built islands in south china sea,pissing yankees statements.the philips now knows it ,so abandon yankees and is in bed with china.

[shiv]

china has more space assets than anyone else but Usa.

Yes but they cannot stop others from spotting your carriers and stalking them

china exports/produces more drones than anyone and its drone tech is almost neck by neck with USA.

This will not save your carriers from being spotted, tracked and attacked.

china has best supercomputer tech on the earth.

I hope those supercomputers flaot. They might help Chinese carriers from sinking

china has world first class telecom producers like HUawei and ZTE.

Sir you are an entertaining person, like a man who answers the question "How old are you?" by saying "I own a smartphone". Completely irrelevant and will not keep carriers afloat

Besides,chinese government has better cash flew than most states

Is it a full floated currency? Because flotation is what Chinese carriers will need

it is because china has the above 5 preconditons that china can trail/moniter/lock cruising AC groups anytime

but,most chinese neighbours even have none of the above 5 preconditions.

Sir how will supercomputers, phones and cash flow stop other countries from tracking and attacking a Chinese carrier. Please excuse me but your answers sound a bit like a cheap robot meant for export to Pakistan

[Liu]

1.you guys misunderstand Huawei/ZTe much.

Both are Good at smarphone,but smartphone is not their mainbusiness.

Their main business is telecom infrastructure,such as base stations and Fiber-optic communication facilities.

They can help civilian telecom companied build The most advanced 5G civilian cellphone telecom net ,and they also can help PLA build The most advanced military datalink and Fiber-optic communication net.

2.
A realtime AC～tracking systems needs eyes(satellites,drones and other sensors ),nerve(anvanced datalinks and military long～distance communication system) and brain( supercomputers).

If Any of eyes,nerve or brain does not work properly, The whole system does not work.and any of them costs billions of dollars.

China happens to have eyes,nerve and brain advanced enough at The same time,after investing Billions of dollars.


Not every state has Enough fund/tech to build eyes,nerve and brain of realtime AC～tracking system.


3. AC groups can cruise at a speed of 30-40km/hour.
without a realtime tracking system,one can not lock them with weapons.



4.once tracking/locking AC groups ,China/russia can launch hundreds of missles at them at the same time,from all kinds of waring platforms such as bombers,warships,strikers,subs or simple land vechicles(df21/26).
AC groups can hardly survive under such saturation attack.
to AC groups,being tracked means being locked. being locked means being destroyed.
for yankees,the best way to stop such saturation attack is to disable China's AC~tracking system(shootdown satellites,jam long~distance communication/datalin,bomb supercomputers.…)..
however,shooting~down satellite /bombing supercomputer usually are looking on as launching a world war .
thus,in a limited conflict,few options available are left for USA to help its AC groups survive from chinese saturation attack.yankees nowdays have to consider seriously retreat its AC groups out of the range of chinese missles.

[shiv]

China does not have enough money to pay human soldiers? Needs more drones

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomac ... h-protests

Chinese military veterans have demonstrated in central Beijing for two days, demanding unpaid retirement benefits in a fresh wave of protests highlighting China’s challenge in managing demobilised troops.

Hundreds of protesters, dressed in green and blue camouflage fatigues, gathered on Wednesday morning outside the Communist Party’s anticorruption agency, the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection, standing in rows and chanting slogans.

“It used to be as volunteer soldiers, when we returned home we had land,” Zhao said. “Now we don’t have jobs, no retirement pension, we have nothing.”

No money for humans..

President Xi Jinping announced in 2015 the People’s Liberation Army would cut troop levels by 300,000, targeting the bulk of the reductions by the end of this year as it seeks to spend more money on high-tech weapons for its navy and air force and become a leaner and more strategic fighting force.

[ranjan.rao]

yankee has problem of cash flew.

if USA had enough cash flew, USA would be the sole one that has the above preconditons at the same time,except china.

where did you get the USA cash flow statement? ChinaTimes/CPC pamphlet? Please share with me too,

Do you know who's purchasing most of the US Tbills till few years back, which currency Chinese Forex Reserves are in ? Dinar Dirham? or Remnibi
one point to ponder for you would be where did china get that cash?

I thought you were idiot, but you seem to be proving worse than that...

[Liu]

yankee has problem of cash flew.

if USA had enough cash flew, USA would be the sole one that has the above preconditons at the same time,except china.

where did you get the USA cash flow statement? ChinaTimes/CPC pamphlet? Please share with me too,

Do you know who's purchasing most of the US Tbills till few years back, which currency Chinese Forex Reserves are in ? Dinar Dirham? or Remnibi
one point to ponder for you would be where did china get that cash?

I thought you were idiot, but you seem to be proving worse than that...

can you tell the difference and relation among defence expenidture, government revenue ,GDP,and forex？


you seem to be confused at them.

[Rakesh]

Liu: you are a gift that keeps on giving. Keep it up!

[hnair]

Liu: you are a gift that keeps on giving. Keep it up!

Iraq had its Comical Ali and china has its LOLiu.

Except money,Usa also needs time to engineer such a huge AC～trailing/monitering system.

it took China over one decades to finish it.USA might be able to finish it a bit faster, had it enough money.

That bit about US needing another decade to catch up with China's "*yuuuge AC trailing system" will make Musharraf proud:

“Pakistan’s space programme is now ahead of India after the formal launching of Paksat-I and this is due to the hard work of our scientists and I am sure Indians would take another 30 months to do the job,” Gen Musharraf claimed.

[ranjan.rao]

In your rhetorical counter question you missed asking me if I know cash flow statement.

can you tell the difference and relation among defence expenidture, government revenue ,GDP,and forex？

Of course I can and i will, but only after u answer my initial question. Jokes aside i am seriously asking , Can you please substantiate your statement "if USA had enough cash flew" [assuming you mean cash flow].
Let me break this down further: where did you get US cash flows? and what is enough according to you?

The answer will decide whether you wnat yourself to be a joke here or not. Sadly propaganda doesnt work on this forum. Even super smart Indian posters are not spared here, let's see what you've got!

[ranjan.rao]

Why dont the mongol yak herder visit this forum? or he seems to condone his ilk?

[Yagnasri]

I do not know why all the eeevil brfees toying with lula here. The Chinese navy is part of Communist party, and therefore it can do anything and everything under the sun. Please know that.

Coming back to serious business, significant production capability of Chinese will be an issue. Whether they can train men to operate those units and if those units have quality is always an unknown factor. Party number lead destroyers and SSNs will be worth watching in the case of real shooting match with USN or even INS.