China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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Austin
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 10 Jun 2017 20:11

The Pentagon’s 2017 Report On Chinese Military Affairs

https://fas.org/blogs/security/2017/06/ ... port-2017/

shiv
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 10 Jun 2017 21:33

Austin wrote:Pentagon: China Is 'Closing the Gap' in Air Power with U.S.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... r-power-us
The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) is “closing the gap rapidly”

Last year, China announced a 7 percent increase in military spending,

work on the C919 commercial airliner and Xian Y-20 military transport,

The PLAAF fields Asia’s largest air force, with more than 2,700 total manned aircraft, including 2,100 combat aircraft. Of the latter, China operates approximately 600 fourth-generation fighters,


China is developing the fifth-generation Chengdu J-20 and carrier-capable Shenyang FC-31 Gryfalcon fighters,

The Chinese air force continues to upgrade its H-6 bomber fleet with standoff weapons—the H-6K carries six CJ-20 air-launched cruise missiles,

China started production last year of the Y-20 transport

The Ukranian-built Liaoning, China’s first aircraft carrier, conducted its second carrier task group integration training


China displayed five unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) at the Zhuhai Airshow


What does this article contain that could not be written by a BRFite after 1 hour of Googling or simply from memory

Philip
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 12 Jun 2017 13:22

THis planned unsersea network by the PRC would be completely illegal as the Indo-China Sea does not belong to China.Other nations can therefore destroy these installations at will covertly.

http://www.newsweek.com/china-announces ... sea-623501
WHAT IS CHINA DOING IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA? BEIJING REVEALS PLANS FOR HUGE OBSERVATION NETWORK
BY ELEANOR ROSS ON 6/9/17 AT 9:43 AM
Brexit Britain Tries To Woo China For Increased Trade At Belt And Road Summit
WORLDCHINASOUTH CHINA SEAMALAYSIAPHILIPPINESASIA
China has announced plans to set up a submarine observation network that will explore the seabed of the disputed East and South China Sea regions, the first of its kind.

Chinese state media outlet Xinhua news reported that the project would collect data to be analyzed in Shanghai, and will be completed within five years at a total cost of more than 2.1billion yuan ($310 million).

The system will allow it to explore deep under the sea in a region where its presence has proved contentious. According to the South China Morning Post, Zhou Huaiyang, a professor at the School of Marine and Earth Science at Tongji University, said that the collected data could be used to explore natural resources and protect China’s maritime interests and national security.

Subscribe to Newsweek from $1 per week

South China Sea
Chinese dredging vessels are purportedly seen in the waters around Mischief Reef in the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea in this still image from video taken by a P-8A Poseidon surveillance aircraft provided by the United States Navy May 21, 2015.
U.S. NAVY/HANDOUT VIA REUTERS
News of a massive nuclear submarine unit on the Yellow Sea in April suggested a Chinese move towards more deep sea exploration. China built that facility to create more nuclear attack submarines.

It is keen to continue deep sea exploration in the disputed South China Sea, after completing a four-month drilling expedition as part of the International Ocean Discovery Program.

Beijing’s moves to claim and build islands in the South China Sea is controversial, with many countries, including Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia, laying claim to parts of it. China has been accused of militarizing the sea, which is one of the world’s busiest and most lucrative shipping channels.

China’s growing militarization of the South China Sea is well documented. Most recently, satellite photographs have captured permanent structures being built on reefs and small rocky outcrops, including Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef.

China has also built its own islands in the Spratly Chain, three of which have military-grade airfields. These airstrips appeared in recent months despite Xi Jinping's 2015 pledge not to militarize the islands further.

The installation of the observation center could cause alarm among its neighbors, who are concerned about China’s expansion.

However, Christian Enemark, professor of international relations at the University of Southampton says he thinks it is credible to regard this as an investment in scientific infrastructure. “The seabed does need to be monitored, and it might be a sensible thing to instate. The situation could also be read as China expressing that the South China Sa is in China’s backyard, and that they’re the ones taking responsibility for this part of the world, but I don’t think we need to read anything suspicious into this announcement,” he tells Newsweek.

The new submarine observation network will, according to Xinhua, emphasize observation of the environment and marine disasters.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 12 Jun 2017 14:48

Dhoti shiver time

China is building the world's fastest amphibious fighting vehicle

The North China Institute of Vehicle Research has built a 4X4 armored fighting vehicle (AFV) that can reach a top speed of 31 miles per hour when traveling in calm waters. That speed would make the amphibious AFV the fastest amphibious military in the vehicle in the world (the cancelled Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle was capable of 29 miles per hour on water).


Photo - appropriately pixelated

Image

Vivek K
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Vivek K » 12 Jun 2017 23:31

Let IA subject it to summer/winter trials, fording trials and then reject it asking for 121 improvements.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 13 Jun 2017 07:11

China deploys new tank in Tibet, near India border

June 12 (UPI) -- China deployed its latest military tank, the Xinqingtan, in an area of Tibet near the Indian border.

Chinese news site Guancha reported Monday Beijing is increasing military buildup in Tibet in a show of force designed to deter the Indian military.

An integrated brigade of the People's Liberation Army in Tibet deployed an unidentified number of the new tanks, according Chinese state-owned television network CCTV.

Guancha stated the Xinqingtan's technology and firepower is "far more advanced" than the Russia-made T-90S tanks deployed by India.

The deployment of the tanks expands the Tibet-based unit and has increased their fighting power, the news site reported.

Light-duty main battle tanks with commensurate firepower are also being tested in Tibet, but the report did not provide details on the tanks, including whether they were the VT-5, a light-duty tank Beijing displayed at the Zhuhai Air Show in Guangdong Province in November.

The Xinqingtan includes a 105-millimeter tank gun, a 35-millimeter grenade launcher and a 12.7-millimeter machine gun.

The guns have already been adjusted to a high angle so they are ready for mountain operations, according to the report.

The tank is relatively light at 35-38 tons. It produces 1,000 horsepower on an 8V150-type engine.

In 2016, Beijing was placing more missiles and fighter jets along the India border, according to Kanwa Asian Defense, a news site specializing in military developments.

In December, Kanwa quoted sources in the Indian navy and air force who said Chinese troops have placed fighter jets, the Jian-11, the Jian-10 and the Kongjing-500, in rotational deployment.

In Hotan, an oasis town in southwestern Xinjiang, the country has been deploying the J-10 and the strategic bomber H-6K.

Cosmo_R
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Cosmo_R » 13 Jun 2017 07:14

^^^Great! Let's order 1000 Armatas :)
Fake news? Ukrainian T-80Us anyone?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 13 Jun 2017 15:15

Now this is something to really dhoti-shiver about. Not pie-in-sky "super weapon" but a change that can radically affect existing weapons based on a decades old technology that simply needed money and perserverance to complete.

They actually outlasted Unkil in going after this technology, no official US project even though Boeing tested their ramjet more than two years ago. Or maybe this story is a plant to get Congress to approve moolah for it.

http://www.popsci.com/chinas-new-ramjet-engine-triple-range-missiles

This new ramjet engine could triple the range of Chinese missiles
Deadly surprises for even the most modern stealth fighters.
By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer Yesterday at 9:13am

China's developing a hypersonic weapon that has triple the range of existing Chinese air-to-air missiles. The premise: a ramjet engine that can turn already deadly missiles into weapons that have greater range, maneuverability, and speed.

. . .

Song said the ramjet engine could more than triple the range of Chinese BVRAAMs. The PL-12's range, for example, could increase from 62 miles to over nearly 200 miles.

. . .

A ramjet BVRAAM would provide a huge overmatch against existing and even planned U.S. air-to-air missiles. For example, the most modern U.S. BVRAAM—the AMRAAM AIM-120D—has an active radar seeker, two way datalink, Mach 4 top speed and a range of more than 100 miles.
DARPA's Triple Threat Terminator (T3) ramjet missile was about the size of the AMRAAM, and would have been targeted against both enemy aircraft and radar systems. Despite four test flights by Boeing before 2015, the T3 missile does not appear to have lead to an actual development program (hence United States Air Force General Herbert Carlisle calling January 2017 for Congress to fund an AMRAAM replacement). However, the USAF does intend to introduce the Small Advanced Capabilities Missile in the 2030s, which will be half the size of the AMRAAM but has the same 100-mile range.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 13 Jun 2017 15:30

chola wrote:Now this is something to really dhoti-shiver about. Not pie-in-sky "super weapon" but a change that can radically affect existing weapons based on a decades old technology that simply needed money and perserverance to complete.

They actually outlasted Unkil in going after this technology, no official US project even though Boeing tested their ramjet more than two years ago. Or maybe this story is a plant to get Congress to approve moolah for it.

http://www.popsci.com/chinas-new-ramjet-engine-triple-range-missiles

This new ramjet engine could triple the range of Chinese missiles
Deadly surprises for even the most modern stealth fighters.
By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer Yesterday at 9:13am

China's developing a hypersonic weapon that has triple the range of existing Chinese air-to-air missiles. The premise: a ramjet engine that can turn already deadly missiles into weapons that have greater range, maneuverability, and speed.

. . .

Song said the ramjet engine could more than triple the range of Chinese BVRAAMs. The PL-12's range, for example, could increase from 62 miles to over nearly 200 miles.

. . .

A ramjet BVRAAM would provide a huge overmatch against existing and even planned U.S. air-to-air missiles. For example, the most modern U.S. BVRAAM—the AMRAAM AIM-120D—has an active radar seeker, two way datalink, Mach 4 top speed and a range of more than 100 miles.
DARPA's Triple Threat Terminator (T3) ramjet missile was about the size of the AMRAAM, and would have been targeted against both enemy aircraft and radar systems. Despite four test flights by Boeing before 2015, the T3 missile does not appear to have lead to an actual development program (hence United States Air Force General Herbert Carlisle calling January 2017 for Congress to fund an AMRAAM replacement). However, the USAF does intend to introduce the Small Advanced Capabilities Missile in the 2030s, which will be half the size of the AMRAAM but has the same 100-mile range.



Neither is the case. I was very surprised given their experience of building simpler ramjet weapons and their hypersonic weapons program that they hadn't achieved a VFDR motor test point earlier given that it was achieved in the west a couple of decades ago. Boeing tested its weapons under the DARPA program not only against an aircraft but also a cruise missile and a ground radar (ARM) but the USAF, the contracting authority does not yet want to pursue a weapon based on assumptions made in the late 1990s /early 2000s about combat in the 2030s. The basic 7 inch 1st and 2nd generation propellant equipped VFDR motor was in testing at ARC since the early 1990s, specific to the AMRAAM project.

Their second motor, specific to the Navy SST program was larger in diameter and simpler (to keep cost low) and is actually in service, having been upgraded in 2 block increments along the way. Yet another VFDR motor was developed, bench and flight tested by ARC for the AGM-88 program but ultimately not pursued since the USAF decided to pursue only guidance and communication upgrades on its HARM inventory (no new missiles).

They have since then begun to look into this problem from the start and have formally created a new BVR weapons program to address an AMRAM replacement (I have posted about it in the International thread recently) with induction expected in the late 2020s or early 2030s. It has as much to do with networks, communications and PID and CONOPS. A more efficient motor, or a larger missile (SAM on a plane) wasn't holding back long range interceptions all this time so the problem is not one dimensional alone (as in range/range/range) but multi-faceted since LO and VLO targeting is involved as is extensive Electronic Warfare.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5098&start=4320#p2163805

chola
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 13 Jun 2017 15:47

^^^ Yeah, it wouldn't make sense for the US to not fund this technology unless they have something better. But for everyone else, this could be daunting.

A Derby at 35 miles or Astra/R-77 at 60-70 miles would be massively outranged by say a SD-10 if it were retro-fitted with a ramjet.

With Cheen pouring money to catch up to Unkil, it would be interesting to see where they end up techwise even if they never reach Amreeki levels.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 13 Jun 2017 16:15

Let me put this in a different way. Out of all the likely headaches missile design teams will have to develop solutions for while developing a future NG weapon, adding more range isn't really one of them. Its actually a low hanging fruit and probably the least costly of the newer capabilities that will have to be incorporated into a future weapon. Even the Boeing weapon mentioned by the article, was to incorporate far harder to design technologies and capabilities than simply a range bump. They wanted multi mission (3 missions in one weapon), and wanted full spherical coverage at all engagement ranges which essentially meant a significantly more agile weapon that had to incorporate Aim-9X like performance elements at short range to engage targets behind the aircraft.

Range extension can be done in a number of ways depending upon the unique challenge and cost on is trying to hit. You can increase motor size (AMRAAM-ER), add a pulsed motor (Derby ER, Barak 8, PAC-3MSE etc), use a VFDR (Meteor, Boeing T3) or remove the warhead altogether (Stunner, NCADE, CUDA etc)...However, Long range targeting amidst signature suppression, decoying, and ECM is the hard bit. This is the complexity and cost driver on future missiles and one of the reasons why it was fashionable to make these weapons multi-mission to justify higher unit costs. Current NG variants such as Aim-120 D and Meteor address some of this such as both adding a 2-way data link and the former adding GPS. Future weapons would need to build on this.

But first and foremost you have to be able to close the loop on a LO or VLO aircraft and develop targeting concept of operations. That's the challenge whether we are talking about Chinese aircraft countering F-22's and F-35s, or US F-22's and F-35's countering J-20s or PAKFAs. Not that I would give a lot of credibility to what popsci writes but increasing range by XX% isn't really going to address any of that. The cost to kill an F-22 or F-35 from 200km away is going to be far more than having a motor that can get a weapon there. Longer ranged weapons have existed for a long time and larger diameter SRM's are fairly easy to incorporate so that is really not a very concerning issue for most missile makers around the world including China. A nice fat booster (cheaper and simpler solution though with limitations) on a legacy weapon won't make it any better against the high end threat even though it may increase its range and kinematic capability significantly.

One area where this may be more of a concern is them moving their liquid ramjet surface weapons over to solid VFDR configurations. These wooden rounds would be a step up for them and they could rapidly develop multiple strike weapons for various missions allowing smaller and lighter weight aircraft to carry these compared to the heavier weapons of the past.

A Derby at 35 miles or Astra/R-77 at 60-70 miles would be massively outranged by say a SD-10 if it were retro-fitted with a ramjet.


An 'out-sticking' competition almost always assumes parity elsewhere. What you need to look at holistically is whether the Chinese can bring effects to bear at such long ranges and if so what one wants to do to counter that. Missile effectiveness is determined by the data i.e. signature of the target, Electromagnetic spectrum control or environment and end game Electronic Counter measures onboard the intended target. Kinematics come in so far as to provide a conducive envelope to employ the weapon but the other things matter a great deal at all engagement scenarios and envelopes. So you need to address each of these aspects and that will be the "counter" to the Chinese adding a longer ranged weapon i.e. the response needs to be focused at denying them targeting and intercepts from such ranges.

This would involve signature suppression (being addressed by FGFA, and AMCA), EMS Control (Jamming support), and better ECM (also being addressed). On the offensive side there are multiple options including Derby ER, Meteor and ASTRA variants out into the future but as with the defensive side, kinematic range extension has to follow a clearly laid out path to first effectively command and control and target at those ranges..Otherwise you incur costs on account of a more expensive motor but derive very little in added effectiveness for the other side has denied you advantages elsewhere. The challenge so far as I see it isn't the Chinese developing longer ranged weapons but addressing some of the things on defensive side of the equation i.e. denying long range targeting against them through their Low Observable fighter projects.

As an aside, Below are videos of the GQM-163A VFDR Motor test. The Designated MR282 (13.8 inch diameter and 134 inch length) configuration Motor was an SST bound simpler design that leverages a stock MK70 booster. Extreme performance was kept at 15 feet altitude with 10G+ weave maneuver capability. Block upgrade since then have improved cruise speed to mach 4 at altitude ( Mach 2.8 at 49 feet in sea skimming mode) and provided a powered high dive mode to replicate similar modes on Chinese Anti Ship missiles. Motors like this for strike applications is what is likely to see significant investment by china as they upgrade their legacy ramjet weapons to fit smaller, more compact strike aircraft and vessels. To me these are far more worrisome than some uber silver bullet long range BVRAAM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXFeJIW45qw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG4MSx4BVfA
Last edited by brar_w on 13 Jun 2017 19:47, edited 1 time in total.

Philip
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 13 Jun 2017 19:20

http://www.defencenews.in/article/China ... ank-262570
China Hastens Military Build-up along Indian Border; Deploys ‘Xinqingtan’ Light Tank

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby VinodTK » 14 Jun 2017 02:13

^^^^^
June 12 (UPI) -- China deployed its latest military tank, the Xinqingtan, in an area of Tibet near the Indian border.

Chinese news site Guancha reported Monday Beijing is increasing military buildup in Tibet in a show of force designed to deter the Indian military.

An integrated brigade of the People's Liberation Army in Tibet deployed an unidentified number of the new tanks, according Chinese state-owned television network CCTV.

Guancha stated the Xinqingtan's technology and firepower is "far more advanced" than the Russia-made T-90S tanks deployed by India.

The deployment of the tanks expands the Tibet-based unit and has increased their fighting power, the news site reported.

Light-duty main battle tanks with commensurate firepower are also being tested in Tibet, but the report did not provide details on the tanks, including whether they were the VT-5, a light-duty tank Beijing displayed at the Zhuhai Air Show in Guangdong Province in November.

The Xinqingtan includes a 105-millimeter tank gun, a 35-millimeter grenade launcher and a 12.7-millimeter machine gun.

The guns have already been adjusted to a high angle so they are ready for mountain operations, according to the report.

The tank is relatively light at 35-38 tons. It produces 1,000 horsepower on an 8V150-type engine.

In 2016, Beijing was placing more missiles and fighter jets along the India border, according to Kanwa Asian Defense, a news site specializing in military developments.

In December, Kanwa quoted sources in the Indian navy and air force who said Chinese troops have placed fighter jets, the Jian-11, the Jian-10 and the Kongjing-500, in rotational deployment.

In Hotan, an oasis town in southwestern Xinjiang, the country has been deploying the J-10 and the strategic bomber H-6K.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 16 Jun 2017 07:36

non mil news

cheen launches 3t x-ray telescope sat

https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017061610 ... pe-launch/

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Muns » 16 Jun 2017 08:52

China launches 1st X-ray Space Telescope : Hard X-ray Modulation Telescope

http://www.india-aware.com/china-launches-1st-x-ray-space-telescope-hard-x-ray-modulation-telescope/

On Thursday morning, China launched a cutting-edge space telescope, the Hard X-ray Modulation Telescope, HXMT, jointly developed by the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the China Academy of Space Technology, blasted off at 11 am atop a Long March 4B carrier rocket from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in Northwest China.

The satellite is the nation’s first space-based X-ray observatory. With a weight of nearly 2.5 metric tons, the HXMT will be in operation for at least four years in a low-Earth orbit at an altitude of about 550 kilometers, according to the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense, which oversees China’s space programs.


more on the above

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 16 Jun 2017 09:18

This is the one that will impact the military far more than the X-Ray satellite.

Unhackable communication coupled with "spooky" science. To be perfectly honest, this stuff is not just weird but a bit fvcking scary because it doesn't respect the visible laws of time and space.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2134843-chinese-satellite-beats-distance-record-for-quantum-entanglement/

Chinese satellite beats distance record for quantum entanglement

By Anil Ananthaswamy

Less than a year after they launched the world’s only quantum communications satellite, Chinese researchers have for the first time ever sent entangled photons from space to ground stations on Earth.

“This is the first step towards worldwide secure quantum communications, and maybe even a quantum internet,” says Anton Zeilinger, an expert on quantum physics at the University of Vienna in Austria.

. . .

Now, entanglement has been preserved in pairs of photons sent by the Chinese satellite Micius to ground stations separated by 1203 kilometres — a new record.

. . .

For every pass of the satellite over China, which happened at night for about 275 seconds, it had to establish two such downlinks simultaneously, either between Delingha and Lijiang (1203 kilometres apart) or Delingha and Nanshan (1120 kilometres apart).

If we were to use optical fibres to distribute pairs of entangled photon pairs on Earth over 1200 kilometres, the loss of signal strength with distance means that we could only transmit one pair per second.

The Chinese satellite smashed that barrier. “We have already improved the distribution efficiency by 12 orders of magnitude over former technologies,” says Pan.

Next up, daytime
Zeilinger is impressed. “It’s a very important achievement,” he says. “It proves that China is really able to master the technology, particularly the technology to follow a satellite optically and have the downlinks.”

Pan says that the next step is to operate during the daytime, which means coping with far more light pollution from the sun, which can destroy the entanglement, and also to send satellites into higher orbits so that they are visible for longer durations. “Then it will be really a useful and radical system for secure quantum communications,” says Pan.

The team also tested the fundamentals of quantum mechanics. Einstein had argued that since quantum mechanics allows for entanglement, which he derided as “spooky action at a distance”, it must be an incomplete theory and that there must be an underlying reality to explain such weirdness. But the tests done on the entangled photons between the pairs of ground stations showed that quantum weirdness is real and cannot be explained by any Einsteinian notions of hidden reality.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby tandav » 16 Jun 2017 13:59

With the Light Tanks in the Tibet Theatre... One major concern is the High power Laser Dazzlers (deemed illegal by many international conventions but have still been deployed by PLA/PLAAF/PLAN) that China is outfitting to its military machines (Tanks/Helis/Recce Vehicles). These devices have the ability to physically blind Indian Soldiers manning the front lines while the Chinese troops inside the Troop carriers and Tanks are safe guarded by relying on Electronic/TV displays. In the first wave of Chinese attacks we need to ensure that such assassins mace type technologies do not disable our war fighting abilities on the Chinese borders

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby shiv » 16 Jun 2017 17:39

tandav wrote:With the Light Tanks in the Tibet Theatre... One major concern is the High power Laser Dazzlers (deemed illegal by many international conventions but have still been deployed by PLA/PLAAF/PLAN) that China is outfitting to its military machines (Tanks/Helis/Recce Vehicles). These devices have the ability to physically blind Indian Soldiers manning the front lines while the Chinese troops inside the Troop carriers and Tanks are safe guarded by relying on Electronic/TV displays. In the first wave of Chinese attacks we need to ensure that such assassins mace type technologies do not disable our war fighting abilities on the Chinese borders

I would like more information about these dazzlers if you have any. Technically it is certainly possible to have a laser dazzler that changes its point of focus to shine at the eyes of multiple soldiers by moving the beam around rapidly. But I can't see how this can possibly blind soldiers whose position is not known, or tactics designed to divert the attention of the dazzler from one direction while the vehicle is hit from the side. In combat non lethal methods can only go so far.

Soldiers do not "go blind" with lasers any more than we go blind by looking at the sun. They will close and avert their eyes and avoid the source allowing the laser bearing vehicle to move even as it attracts attention to itself. A counter tactic would be to attract its attention by shooting from behind a mound while someone else creeps off to the side and blasts the vehicle to jannat

More problematic than fancy tech would be the Chinese ability to put overwhelming numbers of men, vehicles and firepower against something they want to attack. This has to be thwarted by having the ability to match an equally deadly response.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 16 Jun 2017 18:05

China is at least a decade+ over us in AIP tech,apart from other naval tech,where we one had a lead over them.This beggars a big Q,as to why the IN /MOD never insisted on all our Scorpenes to have an AIP system/Was it becos the DRDO made yet another "tall claim" that they would by then perfect a desi AIP system? When all Pak's Agosta 90B subs,of a previous generation but coming/refitted with AIP,we shoul;d've insisted that all the Scorpenes came with an AIP system of our choice.This deal has been one of the major goof-ups in hindsight.Much delayed,at exorbitant cost,no AIP,plus all the generic secrets of the type leaked out to all and sundry! Any wonder that the IN wants no more!

http://www.ecns.cn/military/2017/06-16/261714.shtml
[b]China's first AIP submarine reaches 10-year service milestone
1 2017-06-16 08:32People's Daily OnlineEditor: Wang Fan
(Xinhua/Han Lin)

China has mastered air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology, and the country's navy submarines can now be equipped with the system to reach the advanced level of similar systems throughout the world.

This information was disclosed in a feature published on the website of the Ministry of National Defense on June 14. According to the article, China's first AIP submarine has already completed over 50 important tasks and safely voyaged hundreds of thousands of miles since it was put into service 10 years ago.

An industry insider who asked not to be named told the Global Times on June 14 that China's command of AIP technology is mature, and the system is widely used in the country's submarine units. This news release emphasizes the confidence of the Chinese navy, the insider noted.

AIP allows non-nuclear submarines to operate without access to atmospheric oxygen, prolonging operation duration and increasing stealth. The new submarine is based on Type 035 and 039 submarines, both diesel-electric vessels. The new units are expected to greatly increase the combat capacity of the Chinese navy.

The insider also disclosed that a batch of AIP professionals have been cultivated to both satisfy the needs of routine training and military preparedness, and to carry out maintenance and fault deletion.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Jun 2017 19:13

tandav wrote:With the Light Tanks in the Tibet Theatre... One major concern is the High power Laser Dazzlers (deemed illegal by many international conventions but have still been deployed by PLA/PLAAF/PLAN) that China is outfitting to its military machines (Tanks/Helis/Recce Vehicles). These devices have the ability to physically blind Indian Soldiers manning the front lines while the Chinese troops inside the Troop carriers and Tanks are safe guarded by relying on Electronic/TV displays. In the first wave of Chinese attacks we need to ensure that such assassins mace type technologies do not disable our war fighting abilities on the Chinese borders

In war there will always be such surprises, the most important thing, where we wilted in '62 and did not in '99(in limited context at least) was is our desire to fight till our objectives were fulfilled. We have to shun the defeatist attitude and start thinking like pakis to fight it till the very end and ACT on it as well. In any war chinese will have more to lose as compared to us

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby tandav » 17 Jun 2017 07:47

In grad school many friends were working with high power lasers and one student lost eyesight due to a freak accident where a high power laser bounced off a reflective surface for an estimated time of less than 30 microseconds.

I believe it is relatively easy to find eyes in darkness and during the days by volumetric scanning using visible, IR or UV reflections of the tapetum lucidum layer of mammalian eyes (recall the famous red eye effect in Pics).

The Chinese have deployed the following weapon in Tibet. Note though it is banned under UN conventions we cannot count on the UN ban to prevent its use. The chinese combat weapon I think use a green laser, however that was back in 2003 Today they may be using IR laser which are not visible to the naked eye and can burn the retinas of human. Most tanks have laser sensors on their body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZM-87

The same chinese weapon was deployed and used against US forces back in 2003 by North Korea and the USA/SK forces routinely wear protective eyewear in the DMZ.
https://www.stripes.com/news/u-s-says-apache-copters-were-targeted-by-laser-weapons-near-korean-dmz-1.9753#.WUSPHFHhXIV

An image of the ZM-87 is here
https://www.quora.com/Can-an-electrical-engineer-build-laser-weapons

A few other links... Chinese research in lasers is quite advanced and the same has been weaponized for use in various applications
http://goldsea.com/Text/index.php?id=14690

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 17 Jun 2017 17:38

^^^ Sorry, but that dhoti shivering manure based on fears not reality.

A light tank with 105MM main gun? Dazzlers? Is this weak shit supposed to be scary?

India hold OVERWHELMING material and especially numbers advantage along chini borders. As we went iver this for months on end, geo-politically and geographically, Cheen cannot deploy large formations in Tibet.

List all of the aircraft and ground assets between the two nations at say 300, 200, 100 miles from the border and I say we have up to 10 to 1 advantage in men if not more.

For example, Kashmir alone has 100K jawans. All of Tibet holds no more than 50K PLA if that from what I read because of terrain.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 17 Jun 2017 20:18


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby vasu raya » 18 Jun 2017 22:10

Wonder why Chinese while conducting experiments on quantum entanglement suffer from atomic clock failures on Beidou?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 18 Jun 2017 22:41

While that many be up to doubt, many cities ban use of lasers pinging at aircraft due to the effect it has in pilots.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 22 Jun 2017 19:08

There is a growing suspicion that the SU-30 that crashed close to the Tibetan border was the victim of a cyber attack,why the pilots could not even eject. Watch this space.

Why India too should fear the PLAN's sub ambitions and immediately embark upon a crash programme to acquire readily available N-subs/diesel subs from Russia and Germany to bridge the yawning gap between us and China,both in numbers and capability.We must also add the ambitions of the PN to the threat.When such a massive threat is already upon us,the IN's wet dreams about a future super-carrier ,while relegating the sub crisis to a lesser priority is completely mystifying. THis is especially when from "unsinkable" INS India and the A&N islands,LRMP aircraft and our MKIs armed with BMos,etc.could wreak havoc against any intruding PLAN surface forces and CBGs. Even if sanctioned today,such a super-carrier would arrive only around 2030,at a cost of a min. of $9B without its aircraft,helos,AEW aircraft,etc. The current cost of the Ford class super CV of the USN is around $13B today in comparison. Even a paltry-by comparison sum of at least $3-4B ,when the P-75I prog. is estimated at being about $10B,will give us at least 9 Kilos of latest variant,or 6 German AIP U-boats,or a lease of 3 more Akula SSGNs. Is anyone in the MOD/GOI listening?

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... 255?page=2

Why America Should Fear China's Submarine Fleet
Bill Gertz
June 21, 2017

Te large-scale buildup of China’s naval forces is the most visible part of a major rearmament campaign that has been under way for more than a decade. But Chinese development of modern and increasingly quiet submarines poses one of the more serious strategic challenges for the United States and other nations concerned about Beijing’s growing hegemony in Asia.

The increasing size of the People’s Liberation Army Navy fleet of surface vessels captures most international attention, based on the sheer numbers and advanced weapons on an array of new warships.

Most notable among them is a refurbished Soviet-era aircraft carrier – the Liaoning, which was the first of its kind commissioned into the PLA Navy in 2012 – and development of its first indigenous ski-jump carrier, a vessel with a sloped flight deck.

China’s first domestically constructed carrier will be commissioned in 2020. Coincidentally, the Liaoning was a refurbishment of the Varyag, a Kuznetsov aircraft carrier, which has a sloped flight deck. The difference between the two is size, with the China-made one smaller.

Since 2004, six new PLA Navy classes of indigenous warships – destroyers, frigates and corvettes – were deployed. The ships include some that appear similar in design to the US Navy’s Aegis destroyers.

Less noticed but perhaps more strategically significant is China’s growing force of submarines, including both conventional and nuclear armed vessels. As with other Chinese strategic and conventional military forces, submarines are a growing threat for one key characteristic – their missiles.

Most of China’s submarines are older and relatively noisy – and thus easy to detect, track and destroy by US attack submarines. But the force is being upgraded and made more lethal by the introduction of new submarines armed either with nuclear or cruise missiles.

The Pentagon’s latest annual report on the Chinese military sheds new light on China’s submarine buildup.

Retired US Navy Captain Jim Fanell, a former Pacific Fleet intelligence director, says the report shows the high priority China has placed on undersea warfare.

“From the strategic developments of the new Type 096 ballistic missile submarine to the continued serial production of the world’s largest anti-ship cruise missile submarine force,” Fanell says, “make no mistake: China’s long term goal is to displace the US Navy as the largest and most capable submarine force in the world.”

China’s operational undersea force has 63 vessels – five nuclear-powered attack submarines, four nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines, and 54 diesel-powered attack submarines.
However, in fewer than three years this force will grow to between 69 and 78 submarines.


The number of anti-ship cruise missile submarines is also increasingly significantly. Since the 1990s, China has built 13 Song-class attack submarines and 17 Yuan-class ones with diesel-electric air-independent power attack submarines. Three more Yuans are slated for deployment by 2020.

Also, eight of China’s 12 Russian-made Kilo-class submarines can launch cruise missiles, which are designed to deliver large warheads over long distances.

For nuclear submarines – those capable of longer-range missions from China’s coasts, the PLA Navy has since 2002 built two Shang 1-class nuclear attack submarines, and four Shang 2-class ones.

Strategic missile submarines include four new Jin-class ones outfitted with Julang-2 ballistic missiles. The JL-2 is the second generation intercontinental-range submarine-launched ballistic missile.

“China’s four operational Jin-class [ballistic missile submarines] represent China’s first credible, sea-based nuclear deterrent,” the Pentagon report said.

Coming soon will be a more modern and advanced missile submarine, the Type 096, with construction expected to begin in the early 2020s and armed with a new more lethal missile, the JL-3.

And Beijing is working on a new class of nuclear-powered attack submarines, based on the Shang class called the Type 093B guided missile nuclear-attack submarine.

According to the Pentagon, the Type 093B “not only would improve the PLA Navy’s anti-surface warfare capability, but might also provide it with a more clandestine land-attack option.”

Many of the newer subs will be outfitted with China’s supersonic anti-ship cruise missile, the YJ-18, regarded by the Pentagon as one of the most lethal anti-ship weapons. Chinese analysts have called the YJ-18 “the most perfect anti-ship cruise missile.”

The PLA Navy also has been showing off its new undersea military power. A recent video provided an inside look at the secretive world of China’s submarine forces.

Another recent report, this one by the US Office of Naval Intelligence, regards China’s submarine forces as part of what Beijing calls “non-contact warfare” – the use of weapons and platforms capable of conducting long-range, precision attacks from outside an enemy’s defended zone.

For the nuclear missile carriers, the four Jin-class submarines are based in the South China Sea and have been set to begin strategic patrols for the past several years. However, there has been no official confirmation from China that the patrols, with nuclear-tipped JL-2 missiles, have begun.

China in the past has kept its missile warheads separate from the actual missiles. If the Jins are carrying nuclear-tipped missiles, it would be the first such deployment.

Currently, US Navy submariners are closely watching advances in Chinese submarine forces that remain lacking in terms of capabilities and quietness of American submarines that have decades of experience operating around the world.

However, China is making rapid strides in closing the gap.

Abhijit Singh, a military analyst at India’s Observer Research Foundation, believes China is seeking a network of port facilities to be used for its nuclear submarines operating in the Indian Ocean. They have included a bid to set up facilities in several locations, including Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Myanmar and Bangladesh.

“Ultimately, China’s submarine operations in the South Asian littorals portend greater Chinese force projection in the Indian Ocean,” he stated in a recent article in The Interpreter, an online publication of the think tank, Lowy Institute for International Policy, in Australia.

Rick Fisher, a China military affairs analyst with US think tank, the International Assessment and Strategy Center, sees the Pentagon’s notice of the next generation of the Type 096 third-generation missile submarine as one of the more significant disclosures.

“This means the third generation Type 095 nuclear attack sub could be building around the same time,” Fisher said, noting that reports from Asia indicate the PLA may build 14 Type 095 attack subs.

“If realized, this could mean a [PLA Navy] SSN fleet of about 20 submarines,” he said, referring to the code used for nuclear-powered submarines. “This would put great pressure on the US Pacific deployed [attack submarine] fleet and raises the question of whether the PLA will soon target US missile submarines.”

The annual Pentagon report views China’s Jin submarines and their JL-2 missiles as a potent strike capability with enough range to reach the continental United States. “To maintain a continuous peacetime presence, the [PLA Navy] would likely require a minimum of five Jin-class submarines; four are currently in service,” the report said.

This first appeared in AsiaTimes here.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 22 Jun 2017 21:30

OMG! That stoopid cyber attack story is becoming reality to all the dhoti shiverers out there. A flying MILITARY aircraft with all MIL-STD (standards) is for some reason stupidly hooked up to the f-ing internet so a cyber attack can knock it out of the sky.

Same with the sub shivering. The US have 75 odd NOOK subs the chinis have to counter. The PRC will never be able spare numbers for India unless it wants to give its near seas to the US, Japan, Taiwan and a half dozen other nations.

Good lord, we need a war soon with Cheen to dispell all this peeing in our lungis.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby sivab » 23 Jun 2017 23:39

https://twitter.com/Leopard212/status/8 ... 3679721472

Wandering Baba‏ @Leopard212

A skirmish has been reported on Indian side of Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet Tri junction (East of Chumbi Valley)
Chinese troops hit Indian bunkers.

This action by Chinese troops have led to Kailash Mansarovar Yatra via Nathu La being suspended.

Chinese destroyed recently repaired Indian bunkers, at Dokala, 14 days ago.

This was an innocuous statement from the Foreign Office, on the troubling situation as it exists in Sikkim.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 24 Jun 2017 00:16

No sooner had I asked . . .

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby sivab » 25 Jun 2017 02:05

https://twitter.com/Swamy39/status/878251770404716545

Subramanian Swamy‏Verified account @Swamy39

The Chinese army I.e., PLA is getting restive. So fasten your seatbelts folks




https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/878607408477519872

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618

Yup, there are reports of PLAA destroying bunkers in the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction.

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618 7h7 hours ago

The Chinese seem to be getting jittery about their position in the Chumbi valley. They destroyed the Indian bunker in the Dokala area.

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618 7h7 hours ago
Replying to @SJha1618

Not only does the PLA want to offset its vulnerability in the Chumbi Valley they are also signalling towards the Siliguri Corridor



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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby sivab » 25 Jun 2017 09:35

http://www.news18.com/news/india/china- ... 42213.html

China Refuses Entry To Kailash Mansarovar Yatris After ‘Border Skirmish

According to sources, the situation in Nathu-la evolved after an incident of skirmish at Dokala area of Sikkim. The sources said Chinese PLA troops destroyed a newly repaired bunker of India around 10 days ago. This has led to a tense border situation between the two sides. A recent flag meeting also failed to resolve the situation.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 26 Jun 2017 13:59

The Chinese are very conscious that the longer Narendra Modi stays in office the faster India will be able to both modernise and expand its mil forces and capability. From a few authentic sources,Mr.Modi is doing everything he can to get the Indian babu machine chugging along,from its earlier state of lethargy under the UPA selecting capable clean officers to shoulder the burden. Right now,even as he is in the US meeting with the Donald to accelerate Indo-US relations,Jet Li was despatched to Moscow to firm up delayed Indo-Russian mil deals.Then there is the Israeli factor apart from a list of smaller deals with a variety of nations. Though decisions are being taken as quickly as they cam,bringing the fruit in will take a few years.

Therefore there is genuine concern in both Beijing and Islamabad that Mr.Modi is politically unstoppable in India. The manner in which he has very deftly put the issue of India's next president to pasture,completely outwitting the Opposition,and the hints from Mr.Gurumurthy that Rajnikant will shortly enter the political arena ...on the BJP side,will ensure that the bloc vote that the Dravidian parties hold on Lok Sabha elections has seen its day.The failure of the Opposition to unite in any meaningful manner also shows that when the next election arrives,and it may be sooner rather than later,Mr.Modi and the BJP will romp home. So stopping Mr.Modi politically can only be done from the outside,in the manner in which Pandit Nehru ws dealt a lethal blow.

Thererfore,China is itching badly in its backside to teach India another lesson before it becomes too late to do so. Pak ramping up civil unrest in J&K,while China prepares for a showdown with us in the Himalayas.It's warning about us developing our infrastructure on our side,the opening of the longest bridge in the country,cutting down by sev. hrs. time to get to Ar.Pr.,plus the plan to develop at least 16 stretches of NH which can allow fighters to operate from,indicates the seriousness of the threat from China which this govt. is trying to counter. The Modi-Trump meeting today is v.important as India would like definite guarantees from the US to curtail the Sino-Pak JV aimed against India through sponsored terror,gobbling up of Indian territory by China in POK,and the establishment of a Chinese naval and air base at Gwadar.Thus far the US has given but token consideration to India's genuine concerns.If the US does b*gger all and the Donald sends Mr.Modi away with the usual platitudes and merely Twitters about them,then India will have to take emergency measures and look to old friends for whatever support it can get. We have to be prepared to be " home alone" vs China and need on a war footing critical acquisitions to counter any mil mischief from our two enemies.

However, China would do well to understand one clear fact.Mr.Modi is not Mr.Nehru.In the excitement of the time of the ending of the colonial era without the need to fight for it,Mr.Nehru thought that moral power alone would serve as sufficient deterrent. India was also not sufficiently well prepared or armed to counter a massive surprise Chinese attack.Sheer fright in babudom and in some mil quarters saw us keep the IAF firmly grounded,its use which could've made a huge difference and bloodied the Chinese nose. Even though the mil balance is in China';s favour ,any mil mischief on its part we are sure will receive the "full Modi". We will not hesitate to use whatever means we have at our disposal to defeat the Chinese. Chinese shipping in the IOR will have an exciting and short lifespan.Chinese ships transiting the Malacca Straits will be equiv to "running the gauntlet".

Therefore,the Chinese want a very quick swift "lesson" to be delivered,in cahoots with Pak,one which they can boast as a "victory" of sorts,which they think will damage Mr.Modi's reputation and his electoral prospects.Significant trikes against key Indian positions/infrastructure and a significant intrusion across the LAC to demoralise the population will be China's tactic.The window of opportunity for China and Pak is closinf by the day,Expect the unexpected.

Tall claim from the PRC.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 07811.html
China claims it developed world's most powerful submarine detector
The device could also be used on civilian and military aircraft as a "high performance equipment and technical solution to resources mapping, civil engineering, archaeology and national defence.

PTI| Last Updated: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 17:20

China claims it developed world's most powerful submarine detector
Beijing: Chinese scientists have claimed a major breakthrough in magnetic detection technology which could find hidden metallic objects, including minerals and submarines.

The Chinese Academy of Sciences, China's largest research institute, said in an article this week that a "superconductive magnetic anomaly detection array" has been developed in Shanghai and passed inspection by an expert panel, Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post reported.

The device, which works from the air, could be used to pinpoint the location of minerals buried deep beneath the earth in Inner Mongolia, for example, with a level of precision as high as anything currently available around the world, the experts were quoted as saying by the report.

The device could also be used on civilian and military aircraft as a "high performance equipment and technical solution to resources mapping, civil engineering, archaeology and national defence," the article said.

China's military may soon adopt the technology, if it has not already, said Professor Zhang Zhi, an expert in remote sensing with the Institute of Geophysics and Geomatics, China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, Hubei.

"The technology could be used to detect minerals on land, and in the ocean to nail down submarines," Zhang, who was not involved in the project was quoted by the Post saying.

Dr Lei Chong, an assistant researcher studying MAD technology at the Department of Micro/Nano Electronics, Shanghai Jiaotong University, said the Chinese device was different from conventional designs in at least two ways.

The first is the large number of probes the device uses. With this "array", it can collect much more data than traditional detectors, which tend to use just one antenna, said Lei, who was not involved in the project.

The new MAD also uses a superconductive computer chip cooled by liquid nitrogen. This super-cool environment significantly increases the device's sensitivity to signals that would be too faint for traditional devices to spot.

"I am surprised they made such an announcement," Lei said. "Usually this kind of information is not revealed to the public because of its military value," he said.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Vikas » 26 Jun 2017 14:05

What is with ToILet Paper these days ?
Publishing Anti-India articles from obscure chinese newspapers as if it is stated policy of Cheen sarkaar and we Indians should Dhoti Shiver and follow instructions. It is as if ToI publishes its own anti-India editorials by hiding behind some chineese paper.
I always thought that HUndi is Chinese publication while ToILet is sponsored by poodleistaan.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 26 Jun 2017 14:56

The Chindu at times appears to be more nationalistic than other media entities.Ram's Frontline,though clearly more socialist in colour,has v.good articles on defence and scientific achievements.The latest issue has one on ISRO's success with the cryo/GSLV launch.
There is a definite lobby in India which wants us to cow down to China.WE must not only allow Chinese sh*t to be thrown at us but also eat it,like stapled visas,comments about our infrastructure development,
relations with Vietnam,oil exploration in the Indo-China Sea,etc.,etc.These pimps are the ones who ensure that the trade deficit in $50B+ in China';s favour.It is also very questionable why the NDA-2 govt, has not seen the gap is either narrowed down or removed completely by bringing in massive tariffs for all Chinese goods as well as a complete ban on key items like fireworks,cell-phones,telecom eqpt.,ect. which have serious security implications.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ashthor » 27 Jun 2017 13:10

China confirms Nathu La pass closed because of border stand-off with India

indiatoday.intoday.in/story/china-nathu-la-pass-border-stand-off-india-mansarovar-yatra/1/988081.html

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Philip » 28 Jun 2017 12:54

http://www.janes.com/article/71624/chin ... -uav-swarm
China launches record-breaking UAV swarm

Andrew Tate, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
22 June 2017

China's CETC claims to have set a new record for the number of UAVs launched in a swarm. Source: Via CCTV
The China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) claims to have set a new record for the number of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) flying in a swarm, the state-owned Xinhua news agency quoted the corporation as saying.

The 11 June news report states that the swarm comprised 119 UAVs, breaking CETC's previous record swarm of 67 UAVs. Xinhua did not mention when or where the event took place.

The size of the mini UAV swarm is greater than that trialled by the US Air Force in October 2016 when three Boeing F/A-18 Hornets deployed a swarm of 103 Perdix micro UAVs, which the US Department of Defense noted was one of the world's largest micro UAV swarms to date.

CETC published a video in 2016 of its fixed-wing UAV swarm prototype, which shows the UAVs in a co-ordinated launch from the ground. The corporation said that the UAVs were flying ad hoc networks, sensing and avoiding collision, and demonstrating autonomous group control.

The 2016 video also indicates that the development is aimed at enhancing capabilities in the fields of collaborative intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR), target acquisition, distributed wide area surveillance, and saturation attack.

A CETC engineer was quoted by Xinhua as saying that UAV swarms will become "a disruptive force" that will "change the rules of the game".

In the United States a number of programmes are being run by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), the Strategic Capabilities Office (SCO), and the Office of Naval Research (ONR) to develop concepts and applications of UAV/ unmanned aerial systems (UAS) swarms.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DrRatnadip » 28 Jun 2017 13:11

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0628/c90000-9234286.html

China launched its first independently developed 10,000-ton destroyer on the morning of June 28. The Shanghai Shipyard held a grand ceremony.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby DrRatnadip » 28 Jun 2017 13:19

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0628/c90000-9234155.html

BEIJING, June 27 (Xinhua) -- A book of the selected remarks of President Xi Jinping on national defense and building strong military has been published, according to military authorities Tuesday.
.
.
.
All the military officers and soldiers should consolidate their ideological and political foundation in mind to "be loyal to the core, support the core and safeguard the core", the department added.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nirav » 28 Jun 2017 13:42

Noob pooch to knowledgeable saars.

Can we retake Mansarovar militarily and defend it ?

The Chinese are displaying their A1 harami within.
No amount of border talks will yield in a peaceful handover of Mansarovar.im not even sure if previous govts even mentioned it in talks.

Today's toilet has it on front page.
China: no pilgrims to Mansarovar till Sikkim row resolved.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby vina » 28 Jun 2017 13:50

Basically the Math the math is like this.

Per Capita GDP wise

China : India :: Tamil Nadu : Bihar

Military Spending Wise, GDP wise

China : India :: Tamil Nadu : UP

There. The basic problem is clear. Get UP and Bihar up from the stuck in the 1960s state and bring them up to speed, India will match China. The 30 year rule of Lalloos, and the MullahYum and others in UP and Bihar has been absolutely deleterious. TN and South have some idiotic politics , but that hasn't stopped them or slowed them down.

Bengal is a basket case. I write it off. They are good only for Sloganeering and some street level agit-prop and exporting some pseudo intellectuals in bulk to places like JNU and humanities departments in Furrin Universities and live in a make believe "oh so liberal than thou" world.


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