China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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Singha
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 02 Aug 2018 08:50

the 4 cats will generate formidable sortie rates of large fighters and AEW birds for backup. a carrier can launch 6 fighters + 1 AEW quickly and form a defensive screen some 300km away (fighters) and AEW 150km behind in the direction of any threat to the group. more fighters can be kept warm and ready on the cats to relieve those running out of fuel. see top gun :D

the only thing is the USN relies heavily on land based fuel tankers for persistence in theater. if you look at typical fightingish areas north of norway, between japan and russia, baltic sea, medi sea, black sea , gulf, GIUK gap , aleutian islands .... all are within range of major nato airbases and have been been well stocked with tankers when needs arise. if the same CVBG were in middle of IOR with no land based tankers in support, their persistence and sortie rates would see a dramatic decline.

in any murican adventure the first phone call goes out to drum up reservist ANG crews and mass some 100 KC767/KC135 into theater followed by the second call to drum up some 100 C17/C5/C130/MD11 for logistical tail

so for SCS/YS/ECS it is fine, as PLANAF/PLAAF can provide the tanker support.

what for in the BoB/AS/IOR ? they will need a good chain of bases with tankers to support their carriers. gwader or ormara in TSP is right now the only sure bet.

if we wish to pursue symmetric buildup we need such carriers and air wings , our peninsula is located well for land based tanker support.
if we wish to go asymmetric and disruptive, we need SSGN n-subs , SOSUS arrays all over and land based supersonic bombers armed with both supersonic ASMs and ELO sea skimmers. these will however not be as impressive or effective diplomats in peace time.

either way we have "work to do"

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 02 Aug 2018 10:25

Tanker logistics is one of the first things NATO and us air arms do while planning for a strike. For carrier based fighters, they have a solo F18 circling above which provides fuel to those running low via buddy refueling on the return. Their MQ-25 program is to eliminate the problem of having to use valuable fighter airframe hours doing menial labour like this. The chinese won't wait too long to get their own program started.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 02 Aug 2018 15:20

Singha wrote:The 4 cats will generate formidable sortie rates of large fighters and AEW birds for backup. a carrier can launch 6 fighters + 1 AEW quickly and form a defensive screen some 300km away (fighters) and AEW 150km behind in the direction of any threat to the group. more fighters can be kept warm and ready on the cats to relieve those running out of fuel. see top gun :D


The cats will allow for a lot of things. Tankers along with COD and most importantly AEW.

Note that their CATOBARs look like their STOBARs with the ramp shaved down and the beam, especially the arse, widen. So I think there will only be a modest expansion in the size of the deck and the number of overall planes. From 65K tons to 80K and from 36-40 planes to 50 or a little more. Certainly not 90 like the Amreeki carriers. The hull change is more incremental than clean sheet even going to cats.

The Varyag has saved them decades and given them a leg up with a rational design for a true carrier. Imagine if they had used the Kiev class as their base. They have two of Gorshkov/Vikramaditya’s sisters (Kiev and Minsk) sitting around China as theme parks.

The Kiev at Binhai Park in Tianjin:
Image
https://www.topchinatravel.com/china-attractions/binhai-aircraft-carrier-theme-park.htm

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 04 Aug 2018 15:03

Of course, the chinis are preparing an AEW aircraft for their CATOBARs. When they decided on a carrier arm they go the full mile.

http://www.atimes.com/article/plas-new-early-warning-plane-to-fly-higher-see-further/amp/

PLA’s new early warning plane to fly higher, see further
Chinese aircraft carriers still use repurposed helicopters for AEW, but KJ-600 could be a game changer

By ASIA TIMES STAFF
AUGUST 2, 2018 4:42 PM (UTC+8)

Photos of what is believed to be a KJ-600 airborne early warning (AEW) and control aircraft sitting on the flight deck of a warship replica in the central Chinese city of Wuhan have been circulating online in recent weeks.

Image

These photos could be hints that the People’s Liberation Army has been trialing its new airborne radar-picket plane for the force’s future catapult-equipped flattops and that the first KJ-600 may make its maiden flight soon.

AEW is a weak underbelly in the PLA’s carrier air wing. One challenge is that such aircraft are too heavy and slow to operate off the PLA Navy’s existing carriers with upward-curved ramps, such as the Liaoning and its lookalike sister ship that is currently undergoing sea trials.

At present, the Liaoning relies on an airborne early-warning variant of the Z-18 medium transport helicopter and an integrated radar system for airborne reconnaissance as a stopgap measure, but it’s said that these helicopters are hard put to airlift phased radars for long-distance warning and these slow-flying aircraft may also risk exposing the carrier’s position.

Now observers think the fixed-wing KJ-600 could be the closest Chinese counterpart of the US Navy’s E-2 Hawkeye, a versatile, all-weather, carrier-capable tactical AEW aircraft.

Built by the Xi’an Aircraft Corp under the state-owned juggernaut Aviation Industry Corp of China, the turboprop KJ-600 is mounted with a large active electronically scanned array radar in a radome on top of its fuselage. It bears a larger radar and flies higher than a helicopter and thus sees much further.

The US-based magazine Popular Science once reported that the KJ-600 likely traced much of its design ancestry back to a four-rudder variant of the Y-7 transport aircraft that was tested for a carrier-capable, fixed-wing AEW platform.

Given current Chinese combat data-linking and signal-processing capabilities, the KJ-600 will likely be able to guide aircraft as well as help target long-range Chinese missiles, detect stealth fighters from a foe in certain angles and ranges and integrate real-time data from multiple platforms into a single stream, according to the report.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 04 Aug 2018 21:57

Although in Mandarin language has good footage of Chinese ops , pilots,training etc


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Aug 2018 05:07

https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status/1025434924457779200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1025434924457779200&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%231025434924457779200

Per the reporting of Master Sergeant Class One Dou Shujun, PLAAF 3rd Brigade is converting pilots to fly J-16, which will become the 4th combat unit flying J-16 mutirole fighters.


New photos of the J-16. Basically the chini version of our SU-30 MKI (without the vectoring nozzles and canards.) Multirole fighter that comes in two-man version only with an AESA radar and their latest avionics and chini WS-10A engines.
Image
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 05 Aug 2018 10:08

I dont see the canard and TVC is not apparet so its like MKK and pictures looks touched

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Aug 2018 11:27

this morning I remembered something from an old book and shared with a few friends now sharing it here.
I think i read it during my mtech days in mid 90s.

it is regarding the rise of militaristic japan in the WW1 years and their quest for resources to feed industries and "racial equality" with the colonial white powers. events of that era including japan helping the allies in the middle east / africa / mediterranean theater with naval forces .
later when he quest to be considered a equal power and given share of colonial spoils did not find support among gora elites and ran up against a expanding american power in the pacific, events leading to the american-japan war were finally in motion.
pearl harbour did not happen in a vacuum...the seeds were laid in the post WW1 years

my thesis is that china is in a similar dynamic now. it already has a logistic base in djibouti and patrols the red sea and horn of africa. it wants equality with the khan in all matters...it is being denied this in various overt and covert ways, and resentment is high. just like imperial japan, the PLAN is now a power within a power and looking to chart a global power role.

the next step will be granting syria some 50b in reconstruction aid in exchange for a similar base in Latakia. russis will not mind as it will distract nato from snooping on tartous and complicate the situation in eastern mediterranean.

not many know this...read it all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_during_World_War_I

Japan's military, taking advantage of the great distances and Imperial Germany's preoccupation with the war in Europe, seized German possessions in the Pacific and East Asia, but there was no large-scale mobilization of the economy.[1] Foreign Minister Katō Takaaki and Prime Minister Ōkuma Shigenobu wanted to use the opportunity to expand Japanese influence in China. They enlisted Sun Yat-sen (1866–1925), then in exile in Japan, but they had little success.[2] The Imperial Japanese Navy, a nearly autonomous bureaucratic institution, made its own decision to undertake expansion in the Pacific. It captured Germany's Micronesian territories north of the equator, and ruled the islands until they were transitioned to civilian control in 1921. The operation gave the Navy a rationale for enlarging its budget to double the Army budget and expanding the fleet. The Navy thus gained significant political influence over national and international affairs.[3]
....
Events of 1914

In the first week of World War I Japan proposed to the United Kingdom, its ally since 1902, that Japan would enter the war if it could take Germany's Pacific territories.[4] On 7 August 1914, the British government officially asked Japan for assistance in destroying the raiders from the Imperial German Navy in and around Chinese waters. Japan sent Germany an ultimatum on 23 August 1914, which went unanswered; Japan then formally declared war on Germany on 23 August 1914 in the name of the Emperor Taishō.[5] As Vienna refused to withdraw the Austro-Hungarian cruiser SMS Kaiserin Elisabeth from Qingdao, Japan declared war on Austria-Hungary, too, on 25 August 1914.[6]

Japanese forces quickly occupied German-leased territories in the Far East. On 2 September 1914, Japanese forces landed on China's Shandong province and surrounded the German settlement at Tsingtao (Qingdao). During October, acting virtually independently of the civil government, the Imperial Japanese Navy seized several of Germany's island colonies in the Pacific - the Mariana, Caroline, and Marshall Islands - with virtually no resistance. The Japanese Navy conducted the world's first naval-launched air raids against German-held land targets in Shandong province and ships in Qiaozhou Bay from the seaplane-carrier Wakamiya. On 6 September 1914 a seaplane launched by Wakamiya unsuccessfully attacked the Austro-Hungarian cruiser Kaiserin Elisabeth and the German gunboat Jaguar with bombs.[7]

The Siege of Tsingtao concluded with the surrender of German colonial forces on 7 November 1914.

Events of 1915–16
In February 1915, marines from the Imperial Japanese Navy ships based in Singapore helped suppress a mutiny by Indian troops against the British government. :shock: With Japan's European allies heavily involved in the war in Europe, Japan sought further to consolidate its position in China by presenting the Twenty-One Demands to Chinese President Yuan Shikai in January 1915. If achieved, the Twenty-One Demands would have essentially reduced China to a Japanese protectorate, and at the expense of numerous privileges already enjoyed by the European powers in their respective spheres of influence within China. In the face of slow negotiations with the Chinese government, widespread and increasing anti-Japanese sentiments, and international condemnation (particularly from the United States), Japan withdrew the final group of demands, and a treaty was signed by China on 25 May 1915.

...

Events of 1917
On 18 December 1916 the British Admiralty again requested naval assistance from Japan. Two of the four cruisers of the First Special Squadron at Singapore were sent to Cape Town, South Africa, and four destroyers were sent to the Mediterranean for basing out of Malta. Rear-Admiral Sato Kozo on the cruiser Akashi and 10th and 11th destroyer units (eight destroyers) arrived in Malta on 13 April 1917 via Colombo and Port Said. Eventually this Second Special Squadron totalled during the war 3 cruisers (Akashi, Izumo, Nisshin), 14 destroyers (8 Kaba-class, 4 Momo-class, 2 ex-British Acorn-class), 2 sloops, 1 tender (Kanto).

The Second Special Squadron carried out escort duties for troop transports and anti-submarine operations.
No ship was lost, but on 11 June 1917 a Kaba-class destroyer (Sakaki) was hit by a torpedo from an Austro-Hungarian submarine (U 27) off Crete; 59 Japanese sailors died. The Japanese squadron made a total of 348 escort sorties from Malta, escorting 788 ships containing around 700,000 soldiers, thus contributing greatly to the war effort. A further 7,075 people were rescued from damaged and sinking ships. In return for this assistance, Great Britain recognized Japan's territorial gains in Shantung and in the Pacific islands north of the equator.

With the American entry into World War I on 6 April 1917, the United States and Japan found themselves on the same side, despite their increasingly acrimonious relations over China and competition for influence in the Pacific. This led to the Lansing–Ishii Agreement of 2 November 1917 to help reduce tensions.

In late 1917, Japan exported 12 Arabe-class destroyers, based on Kaba-class design, to France.

Toward the end of the war, Japan increasingly filled orders for needed war material for its European allies. The wartime boom helped to diversify the country's industry, increase its exports, and transform Japan from a debtor to a creditor nation for the first time. Exports quadrupled from 1913 to 1918. The massive capital influx into Japan and the subsequent industrial boom led to rapid inflation. In August 1918, rice riots caused by this inflation erupted in towns and cities throughout Japan.

Events of 1919
The year 1919 saw Japan's representative Saionji Kinmochi sitting alongside the "Big Four" (Lloyd George, Orlando, Wilson, Clemenceau) powers at the Versailles Peace Conference. Tokyo gained a permanent seat on the Council of the League of Nations, and the Paris Peace Conference confirmed the transfer to Japan of Germany's rights in Shandong. Similarly, Germany's more northerly Pacific islands came under a Japanese mandate, called the South Pacific Mandate. Despite Japan’s prowess on a global scale, and its sizable contribution to the allied war effort in response to British pleas for assistance in the Mediterranean and East Asia, the Western powers present at the Treaty of Versailles rejected Japan's bid for a racial equality clause in subsequent Treaty of Versailles. Japan nevertheless was not doubted to have emerged as a great power in international politics by the close of the war.

The prosperity brought on by World War I did not last. Although Japan's light industry had secured a share of the world market, Japan returned to debtor-nation status soon after the end of the war. The ease of Japan’s victory, the negative impact of the Showa recession in 1926, and internal political instabilities helped contribute to the rise of Japanese militarism in the late 1920s to 1930s.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Aug 2018 11:33

question is will the chinese elite seek a direct confrontation like pearl harbour or seek to make an example out of india or vietnam to cow down fence sitters and american allies on its pacific and southern rim ?

the second option is much less risky and higher ROI for the effort involved. murica wont really give a crap if india or vietnam take a hit. it can sell billions of dollars of weapons post-war to "balance" the unbalance and murican congress will pass a resolution of signed support which will be grandly handed over after a rousing speech for all free countries to stick together.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Aug 2018 11:39


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Aug 2018 16:21

Austin wrote:I dont see the canard and TVC is not apparet so its like MKK and pictures looks touched


Austin ji, I wrote explicitly that the J-16 does not have the TVC and canards. It is like our MKI as a multirole fighter that comes in two-man version onlee. O say that as a point of reference as most people here would not be familiar with the MKK.

But you are correct, it looks like and probably is a clone of the MKK which was sold to Cheen after the SU-27SK.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Aug 2018 16:57

Singha wrote:question is will the chinese elite seek a direct confrontation like pearl harbour or seek to make an example out of india or vietnam to cow down fence sitters and american allies on its pacific and southern rim ?

the second option is much less risky and higher ROI for the effort involved. murica wont really give a crap if india or vietnam take a hit. it can sell billions of dollars of weapons post-war to "balance" the unbalance and murican congress will pass a resolution of signed support which will be grandly handed over after a rousing speech for all free countries to stick together.


Attacking Pearl Harbor will end in the same way as it did for Japan but quicker. But unlike the Japanese in 1941, the chinis will need to attack Korea and Japan first, then Taiwan and then Guam just to get to Pearl Harbor. After WWII, the US made sure that an attack from that direction will never happen again.

And I can only hope they start a war with us because we would crush them like an egg. Almost impossible for them to build local advantage along the our borders.

Using the Japanese historical example on Cheen is flawed, Singha ji. For one, Japan was a TFTA warrior race where the Samurai is exulted. China is a Short Rice Eating nation and a race of shopkeepers and factory workers, the exact opposite of a fighting race like Japan.

Secondly, it is far better to use chini history itself as an example.

There was a period in Cheen that mirror the present situation exactly. It had just come out of foreign domination. It was expanding its trade and naval presence from the Yellow Sea to the warms waters around present day ASEAN and was making forays into the IOR. It was in Sri Lanka and East Africa with a vast fleet under a muzzie imperial eunuch.

That period was the Ming Dynasty empire. It had come out from domination by the Mongols. What was the result? They ended up rebuilding the Great Wall and sat around trading silk and ceramics until they were overrun (again) by horsemen who breached their stupid wall once more in the form of the Manchus.

Cheen hadn’t fought a real war in four decades and the chances of them fighting one now with a society full of spoiled single-child L’il Emperors, aging population and crashing birthrate is practically nil.

Nope, they will rely on their industrial production to wage their “war.” They will try to force out the US presense from their shores by flooding the Yellow Sea, East China Sea and the Taiwan Strait with so many ships, aircraft and infrastructure that is becomes fait accompli like in the SCS. But that will take decades. The spillover effects from this buildup will mean more and more chini ships in the IOR but that will always be a rump force because of their need to force the USN away from their coast.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Aug 2018 18:02

I do not share your lack of confidence in the chinese geostrategy

Nothing is perfect. It just needs to be better than the confused plans of soko japan and india

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby abhik » 05 Aug 2018 20:40

One major difference between Japan in WW2 and China today is that the Japanese were ~1:10 disparity in industrial capacity compared to US but today China actually has an advantage.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 05 Aug 2018 21:57

Japan had no other choice other than sinking USN to have any chance of dominating. The generals also realized until they can march on to Washington, they cannot win. WW2 was the conventional version of MAD.

China cannot defeat US, until it is able to march on to Washington. Which we can say quite confidentially say will not cannot happen. So unless China wants to try out conventional MAD and see if it is the last man standing, we will not see real fist fights.

So it is probably gonna use the US template. Park ships across adversary's backyard and get involved in some bush wars or arm some munna to fight on it's behalf and show off the kit .

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby souravB » 05 Aug 2018 22:24

just to add a counter-point to the prevailing point in this great discussion
Cheen can try to flood regions with their war machines but that might very soon become a too costly endeavor. US as the biggest consumer of Chinese goods is basically financing the expansion but also as the consumer they do hold the aces. They will want to diversify their import portfolio. even if they just reduce the direct import from Cheen by half, this model of Cheen would go belly up.
When the external money dries up, so will the leverages on other countries and inside Cheen will have other problems to face like what to do with the big industries whose demand has shrink-ed overseas.
as a rough estimate US trade balance with China is ~ $-400B. If they just halve that where is China going to get $200B from. They cannot reduce imports as they are already importing only the necessities.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 05 Aug 2018 22:55

They will reduce the imports of raw materials used for the lost 200b
Obviously job losses will be there and some unrest
But the media control is tight
Facial tecofnition cctv are all over
And red guards will crush street unrest

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby souravB » 05 Aug 2018 23:23

Exactly. reducing imports from other countries will result in further loss of leverage.
Then again the 400B is the trade balance with US, that means that is the net profit of Cheen after importing everything from US. Now lets say for argument's sake Cheen imports raw material from US and sells them the product made from those raw materials only, then 400B is the gross profit before discounting salaries. So if they reduce the import of raw material, the difference increases and US will also reduce imports.
Now for other countries, if Cheen reduce imports, IMO most of them will not sit idly by and take action to reduce their own imports from Cheen. It will have a rolling effect.
But I think I have gone OT, maybe it is worth discussing on the other Cheen thread.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 05 Aug 2018 23:31

US and India are two biggest trade deficit countries(and have always been). Both are doing fine. Chini will get hit with drop in exports, however with already 12 trillion, they should have enough consumption power to tide over it.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 06 Aug 2018 07:54

Singha wrote:I do not share your lack of confidence in the chinese geostrategy

Nothing is perfect. It just needs to be better than the confused plans of soko japan and india


No Singhaji, I unfortunately have plenty of confidence in their plan. I actually want your idea of Cheen being the next imperial Japan to occur because I feel that is the only way to stop their strategy.

BUT the Chini strategy as I re-iterate is the SAME one they have been using in the past 40 years to go from a near failed state that was no more than a giant-sized North Korea to their currently number two position today. That strategy is to AVOID war while building up an industrial complex that can produce in immense numbers which allows them to WIN territory and influence during PEACE time.

Unless someone from the United States, Japan, SoKo or Taiwan is willing to be the bad guy and start a war that can attrite the chinis’ numbers then they will just continue pumping so many destroyers, frigates and carriers into the Yellow and East China Seas and the Taiwan Strait that chini control is fait accompli once the saturation point is reached.

The one issue is the US has 11 carriers and 68 DDGs and CGs so it will take the PRC decades to build a force capable of crowding out the US. But that trendline is inevitable — unless war happens in the decades preceding the saturation point.

The PRC won’t start a war like Imperial Japan because time is on the side of the industrial complex that is the crux of the lizard’s power. War is the advantage of the warrior nation which Cheen had decided 40 years ago — after their debacle in Vietnam — that it was not and had assiduously avoided war ever since.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 06 Aug 2018 23:01

hypersonic weapon tested

TOI
BEIJING: China on Monday announced that it has successfully ..

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Aug 2018 14:18

^^^ Yes, a major development, Singhaji. Hypersonics is a major contest between Unkil and the Lizard in their “Star Wars” rivalry along with anti-satellites (both ABM-based systems and ground lasers) and railguns/EM launchers. It will give us a kick in the pants to do similar things.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Aug 2018 14:46

Intel tweets:

Supposedly the assembly dock for their new CATOBAR; interesting in that they are developing the dock and its adjacent area even as the carrier is being assembled; everything is done concurrently:
Image


J-11B with construction number 0706, previously 0615 and 0618 in December 2014 were the highest sighted; significance is they are still building the J-11B when watchers thought the “B” was dropped for the J-16:
Image
Image

Supposedly two 052Ds are nearing completion and being moved to the mouth of a giant drydock in Dalian to clear space for the construction of yet two more:
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 07 Aug 2018 16:11

the CRRC goliath crane must be the biggest on mother earth. the buildings on the left are large ones, but it towers over them. it is full sized to lift up modules to the top mast of a drydocked carrier. no other ship can be that tall.

I am guessing they will build 2 in parallel to achieve more economy of scale and spread more FUD

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 07 Aug 2018 16:14

cough cough
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 07 Aug 2018 18:35

Singha wrote:the CRRC goliath crane must be the biggest on mother earth. the buildings on the left are large ones, but it towers over them. it is full sized to lift up modules to the top mast of a drydocked carrier. no other ship can be that tall.

I am guessing they will build 2 in parallel to achieve more economy of scale and spread more FUD


Yah, with the infrastructure they’ve put in place for building carriers, I’m beginning to wonder if 6 carriers onlee is their goal. They might go for 12 to pip the Amreekis.

Then Unkil will build 15 to keep edge.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 07 Aug 2018 20:36

They've really built up their crane building. Goliath cranes and others, selling them to russian shipyards too.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 07 Aug 2018 21:04

umm not just russian but uncle too.

in india, you see their zoomlion tower cranes at construction sites all over.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ashish raval » 08 Aug 2018 02:26

Are we developing things to counter this from Chin?
Lasers perhaps not either due to its line of sight limitation?

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2158524/chinas-hypersonic-aircraft-starry-sky-2-could-be-used

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 08 Aug 2018 02:44

ashish raval wrote:Are we developing things to counter this from Chin?
Lasers perhaps not either due to its line of sight limitation?

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2158524/chinas-hypersonic-aircraft-starry-sky-2-could-be-used


The idea behind these hypersonic weapon delivery systems is the extreme speed makes countering by traditional methods nearly impossible. So no counter yet by us or anyone else.

We have hypersonic programs of our own too with Shauriya and Brahmos II which will be a re-usable waverider like the chini one in the article.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 08 Aug 2018 09:53

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/first-t ... topstories

BEIJING: Amid the trade war with the US, China has reported a current account deficit of $28.3 billion in the first half of this year, which is the first in 20 years for the world's second largest economy.

China also recorded its first quarterly current account deficit in nearly 17 years this year, ending its dream run of accumulating trade surplus as top exporter for years and the deficit carried on to the first half of this year.

The deficit in the current account stood at $28.3 billion in the January-June period, down from $34.1 billion in the first quarter, the State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE) said in a statement.

China's service trade posted a deficit of $147.3 billion up from $73.6 billion three months earlier. The spending on trips, transport, and intellectual property rights contributed to the bulk of the deficit, state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

China however saw a goods trade surplus of $155.9 billion in H1 2018. This is the first half-year deficit in 20 years as spending on overseas services continued rising and outpaced income generated from the sale of goods by the world's largest exporter, Caixin magazine reported.

The country's current account surplus has been steadily shrinking since the 2008 economic crisis as it moved towards increasing domestic consumption to reduce dependence on declining exports, which were the mainstay of its economic growth. The world's second largest economy posted 6.9 per cent GDP last year and the government has fixed 6.5 per cent as this year's growth target.

China's overall trade and current account surpluses have fallen significantly as a percentage of its GDP since 2007.

Its current account surplus declined from 9.9 per cent of GDP in 2007 to 1.3 per cent in 2017, according to the data of SAFE.

Analysts forecast a narrowing surplus or more frequent current account deficits against the backdrop of trade tensions between China and the US.

Caixin quoted Zhang Ming, chief economist at Ping An Securities as saying that as goods trade comes under pressure and as service trade continues expanding, China may see more current account deficits.

Zhang said the deficit also reflects a falling domestic saving rate, which may be partly because of the aging population.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 08 Aug 2018 10:24

Well US has been running deficit for decades now and it would soon reach trillion USD next year or so

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 08 Aug 2018 14:12

...it has the worlds reserve currency and strong printing press + network of allies in the OECD . others may not have the same luxuries.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 08 Aug 2018 15:35

^^^ Cheen has a printing press as well.

Hopefully the trade war can put a crimp in their production.

But it could also have the opposite effect as the export industry slows down from the tariffs they could expand the MIC to create and sustain jobs. So even more planes and ships.

These are their programs on fast jets alone and their associated engine projects:

CAC:
Production Run — Upcoming Variant — Domestic engine
J-10C — J-10D — WS-10X
J-20 — J-20A — WS-10X, WS-15
JF-17 — JF-17B — WS-13

SAC:
J-11B — J-11D — WS-10X
J-15 — J-15D, J-15T — WS-10XH
J-16 — J-16D — WS-10X
Prototype
FC-31, FC-31v2 — (Carrier variant) — WS-13E, WS-19

GAC:
FTC-2000 — FTC-2000G — WP-14C
JL-9 — JL-9G — WP-14C

HAC:
L-15 — L-15B — WS-11
JL-10 — JL-10H — WS-11
K-8 — K-8W — WS-11
JL-11 — JL-11G — WS-11

XAC:
JH-7A — JH-7B — WS-9A


We have Tejas, Kaveri and barely-alive IJT programs onlee :((

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 08 Aug 2018 15:45

We are comparing programs of 2.8 trillion GDP with 12 trillion GDP country.

If we see progress in LCA MK1A,MK2, Navy, AMCA, UCAV, Kaveri engine (atleast for UAV), Scramjet we would have done fairly well for a 1/5 of Chini GDP.

We may not be able to dominate, however we become a tough nut to crack with all the foundation tech in place.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 08 Aug 2018 19:10

nam wrote:We are comparing programs of 2.8 trillion GDP with 12 trillion GDP country.

If we see progress in LCA MK1A,MK2, Navy, AMCA, UCAV, Kaveri engine (atleast for UAV), Scramjet we would have done fairly well for a 1/5 of Chini GDP.

We may not be able to dominate, however we become a tough nut to crack with all the foundation tech in place.



Yes, this is why the Tejas programs are so important. Eventually the contest between great powers will come down to the economies and the MICs. The chini programs I quoted above are jet programs verified to have at least a flying prototype. They do not include the rumored but widely cited ones like the CAC single-engined stealth fighter, J-20 carrier variant or the J-18 STOVL — any of which could likely be further along than the AMCA.

Our drone programs are critical because the chini UAVs are legion in types and numbers. We need to develop these things to have a semblance of balance in the decades coming up.

The engines for these drones are critical as well. Even if we never use the Kaveri for the Tejas, it will be gamechanger for us if we can use it in our UCAVs and cruise mijjiles. The desi diesel that is slated for Rustom II is important too as that will give us an economical poweplant for smaller recon UAVs.

We need a full industry with engines and aircraft running from small to large and from mundance to advance. It can’t be built overnight but it needs to start.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 09 Aug 2018 21:09

3 large LPH ships under construction. will be useful for flag staff, sea control and ASW

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_075_ ... opter_dock

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Neshant » 10 Aug 2018 00:58

An unlikely Ally has emerged as an icon of resistance in China.

------

China's Winnie The Pooh Crackdown Intensifies As Half-Naked Bear Becomes Resistance Icon

China's war with Winnie the Pooh has intensified, as Beijing has reportedly banned the new Disney film "Christopher Robin" as part of their new crackdown on the half-naked bear. Why? Because Pooh has become a resistance icon over Chinese social media due to his resemblance to Chinese President Xi Jinping.


Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Neshant » 10 Aug 2018 01:52

chola wrote:
nam wrote:We are comparing programs of 2.8 trillion GDP with 12 trillion GDP country.

If we see progress in LCA MK1A,MK2, Navy, AMCA, UCAV, Kaveri engine (atleast for UAV), Scramjet we would have done fairly well for a 1/5 of Chini GDP.

We may not be able to dominate, however we become a tough nut to crack with all the foundation tech in place.



Yes, this is why the Tejas programs are so important.


Doesn't seem that way given the IAF was trying to kill the program and hurriedly import foreign planes.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 10 Aug 2018 07:15

Neshant wrote:
chola wrote:

Yes, this is why the Tejas programs are so important.


Doesn't seem that way given the IAF was trying to kill the program and hurriedly import foreign planes.


The IAF believes in preparing for war, it is their job. Phoren weapons gives them the best chance in a fight.

But it is the GOI who must form the proper strategy. If catastrophic war is imminent then importing weapons is the proper strategy. If it is not, then forming the MIC is far more important to the nation in the long run.

IHMO, we had badly overrated our two opponents as military threats that required superior phoren weapons at hand for the two-front war just around the corner.

The problem is not the IAF, it is the improper strategy of the GOI and the parties that ran it. Congress and the Nehru clan gave us a bad start. BJP’s MII is a start but it has a long way to go.

Tejas is vitally important to the MIC but not necessarily the IAF. The MIC is vitally important to the nation therefore the nation must make the decision not the IAF. You think the PLAAF wanted the J-10 when it was crashing all over the place? I doubt it.

The PRC decided that the MIC was more important and that great powers like themselves are unlikely to fight other great powers like the US, Japan or India so they forced the J-10 down the PLAAF’s throat and ended up with a deep and wide aircraft industry.

If we had done the same with the Marut who knows where we’d be today.


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