China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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Neshant
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Neshant » 12 Sep 2018 08:34

chola wrote:One thing we found out from the Burmese and Cheen is that yellows do not accord the same tolerance of muzzie intolerance as we do.



Chinis will kill anyone who is not a Han drone - even peaceful Tibetans.

In that sense, what Uighurs do or don't do is irrelevant.

The mere fact that Uighurs have a long history, a language, traditional attire and distinct culture makes them targets for extinction and replacement by Han drones.

That a million Uighurs have to be imprisoned in brainwashing camps speaks to the total lack of soft power of chinis.
Despite being a 90%+ majority, chinis have almost no cultural influence/absorption capacity even within their own country.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 12 Sep 2018 16:49

Neshant wrote:
chola wrote:One thing we found out from the Burmese and Cheen is that yellows do not accord the same tolerance of muzzie intolerance as we do.



Chinis will kill anyone who is not a Han drone - even peaceful Tibetans.

In that sense, what Uighurs do or don't do is irrelevant.

The mere fact that Uighurs have a long history, a language, traditional attire and distinct culture makes them targets for extinction and replacement by Han drones.

That a million Uighurs have to be imprisoned in brainwashing camps speaks to the total lack of soft power of chinis.
Despite being a 90%+ majority, chinis have almost no cultural influence/absorption capacity even within their own country.


You cannot absorb muzzies which is why Bharat is now factured along muzzie lines into cancers Pakiland and Beedee. Think man.

Neshant ji, Han expansion was ALWAYS predicated on absorption. The Han race itself is hundreds of previously different groups absorbed over the millenias. Northern Hans are racially as different from Southern Hans as Mongols and Koreans are from Cambodians and Vietnamese. Western Hans are closer to Turks than Eastern Hans who are closer to Japanese.

Cheen was never a great warrior race conquering others through war. It was always a soft short rice-eating one that absorbed its neighbors and made everyone culturally the same.

We always talk about the lack of chini soft power but that is relative to the West onlee. Remember, chini language and culture are infused in Japan, Korea and Taiwan as well as Hong Kong, Singapore and Macau — that’s all of first world Asia. Chini characters, kanji, are still used in Japan. Koreans use fengshui and their national flag is the chini yinyang symbol. Koreans, Japanese and Taiwan vacation, live, study and work in Cheen in huge numbers.

I’ve been looking at their media and entertainment industry as a work project. Chini celebrities are covered by every country in the Sinosphere like their own. A chinese pop star like a member of the “TFBoys” landing at Incheon airport will paralyze the damn place with screaming Korean girls. Japanese men named one of the chini girl group members the “4000-Year-Old Idol” for worship. On Youtube, banned to chini users, the posters of chini pop groups are Vietnamese and Thais.

Their music and movie box offices are a soft power magnets because everyone in East Asia must learn chini tastes and customs to sell to it.

None of this soft power works with muzzies. We couldn’t moderate pakis with Bollywood so neither could the chinis with their girl groups.

No workee with muzzies:
Image

At least the chinis realize this. We don’t.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Neshant » 13 Sep 2018 14:05

Pick any aspect like religion and see how they stack up against the competition.

[*] Saudi arabia has "weaponized" its exported religion of Islam building mosques and training radicals all over the world.

[*] Christianity has gone on a global brainwashing & conversion spree gaining millions of followers.

[*] Even Bharat has exported Buddhism throughout South East Asia, China, Korea and Japan (and even the west).

What religion can you name that has come from China. I can't think of any.


Or lets pick another aspect. What is the equivalent even Bollywood from China beyond martial arts Jacky Chan movies?


Anime, managas and all that stuff is Japanese not Chinese. Girl bands, Hello Kitty, Cutesy "school girl" stuff are also a Japanese phenomena.
Many westerners are interested in Japanese culture and some even fly there to learn Japanese and their way of life. Cinis being 10x larger, how many are interested in learning Chinese beyond just for business purposes?

Chinis may conquer the world economically and militarily, but it sure as hell won't be culturally.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Neshant » 13 Sep 2018 14:08

A vision of the future (more like the present!) from your friendly neighborhood cinis.

Gotta admit though, a system like this would in some ways benefit India if implemented in terms of keeping things organized - although it has a very draconian dimension to it.

--------------------------

China's 'Digital' Totalitarian Experiment

[*] China's "social credit" system, which will assign every person a constantly updated score based on observed behaviors, is designed to control conduct by giving the ruling Communist Party the ability to administer punishments and hand out rewards. The former deputy director of the State Council's development research center says the system should be administered so that "discredited people become bankrupt".

[*]
Officials prevented Liu Hu, a journalist, from taking a flight because he had a low score. According to the Communist Party-controlled Global Times, as of the end of April 2018, authorities had blocked individuals from taking 11.14 million flights and 4.25 million high-speed rail trips.

[*]
Chinese officials are using the lists for determining more than just access to planes and trains. "I can't buy property. My child can't go to a private school," Liu said. "You feel you're being controlled by the list all the time."

Chinese leaders have long been obsessed with what Jiang Zemin in 1995 called "informatization, automation, and intelligentization," and they are only getting started Given the capabilities they are amassing, they could, the argument goes, make defiance virtually impossible. The question now is whether the increasingly defiant Chinese people will accept President Xi's all-encompassing vision.

By 2020, Chinese officials plan to have about 626 million surveillance cameras operating throughout the country. Those cameras will, among other things, feed information into a national "social credit system."

That system, when it is in place in perhaps two years, will assign to every person in China a constantly updated score based on observed behaviors. For example, an instance of jaywalking, caught by one of those cameras, will result in a reduction in score.

Although officials might hope to reduce jaywalking, they seem to have far more sinister ambitions, such as ensuring conformity to Communist Party political demands. In short, the government looks as if it is determined to create what the Economist called "the world's first digital totalitarian state."

China's President Xi Jinping is not merely an authoritarian leader. He evidently believes the Party must have absolute control over society and he must have absolute control over the Party. He is taking China back to totalitarianism as he seeks Mao-like control over all aspects of society. (Photo by Lintao Zhang/Getty Images)

That social credit system, once perfected, will surely be extended to foreign companies and individuals.

At present, there are more than a dozen national blacklists, and about three dozen various localities have been operating experimental social credit scoring systems. Some of those systems have failed miserably. Others, such as the one in Rongcheng in Shandong province, have been considered successful.

In the Rongcheng system, each resident starts with 1,000 points, and, based upon their changing score, are ranked from A+++ to D. The system has affected behavior: incredibly for China, drivers stop for pedestrians at crosswalks.

Drivers stop at crosswalks because residents in that city have, as Foreign Policyreported, "embraced" the social credit system. Some like the system so much that they have set up micro social credit systems in schools, hospitals, and neighborhoods. Social credit systems obviously answer a need for what people in other societies take for granted.

Yet, can what works on a city level be extended across China? As technology advances and data banks are added, the small experimental programs and the national lists will eventually be merged into one countrywide system. The government has already begun to roll out its "Integrated Joint Operations Platform," which aggregates data from various sources such as cameras, identification checks, and "wifi sniffers."

So, what will the end product look like? "It will not be a unified platform where one can type in his or her ID and get a single three-digit score that will decide their lives," Foreign Policy says.

Despite the magazine's assurances, this type of system is precisely what Chinese officials say they want. After all, they tell us the purpose of the initiative is to "allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step."

That description is not an exaggeration. Officials prevented Liu Hu, a journalist, from taking a flight because he had a low score. The Global Times, a tabloid that belongs to the Communist Party-owned People's Daily, reported that, as of the end of April 2018, authorities had blocked individuals from taking 11.14 million flights and 4.25 million high-speed rail trips.

Chinese officials, however, are using the lists for determining more than just access to planes and trains. "I can't buy property. My child can't go to a private school," Liu said. "You feel you're being controlled by the list all the time."

The system is designed to control conduct by giving the ruling Communist Party the ability to administer punishments and hand out rewards. And the system could end up being unforgiving. Hou Yunchun, a former deputy director of the State Council's development research center, said at a forum in Beijing in May that the social credit system should be administered so that "discredited people become bankrupt".

"If we don't increase the cost of being discredited, we are encouraging discredited people to keep at it," Hou said. "That destroys the whole standard."

Not every official has such a vindictive attitude, but it appears that all share the assumption, as the dovish Zhi Zhenfeng of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences said, that "discredited people deserve legal consequences."

President Xi Jinping, the final and perhaps only arbiter in China, has made it clear how he feels about the availability of second chances. "Once untrustworthy, always restricted," the Chinese ruler says.

What happens, then, to a country where only the compliant are allowed to board a plane or be rewarded with discounts for government services? No one quite knows because never before has a government had the ability to constantly assess everyone and then enforce its will. The People's Republic has been more meticulous in keeping files and ranking residents than previous Chinese governments, and computing power and artificial intelligence are now giving China's officials extraordinary capabilities.

Beijing is almost certain to extend the social credit system, which has roots in attempts to control domestic enterprises, to foreign companies. Let us remember that Chinese leaders this year have taken on the world's travel industry by forcing hotel chains and airlines to show Taiwan as part of the People's Republic of China, so they have demonstrated determination to intimidate and punish. Once the social credit system is up and running, it would be a small step to include non-Chinese into that system, extending Xi's tech-fueled totalitarianism to the entire world.

The dominant narrative in the world's liberal democracies is that tech favors totalitarianism. It is certainly true that, unrestrained by privacy concerns, hardline regimes are better able to collect, analyze, and use data, which could provide a decisive edge in applying artificial intelligence A democratic government may be able to compile a no-fly list, but none could ever come close to implementing Xi Jinping's vision of a social credit system.

Chinese leaders have long been obsessed with what then-President Jiang Zemin in 1995 called "informatization, automation, and intelligentization," and they are only getting started. Given the capabilities they are amassing, they could, the argument goes, make defiance virtually impossible.

Technology might even make liberal democracy and free-markets "obsolete" writes Yuval Noah Harari of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in the Atlantic. "The main handicap of authoritarian regimes in the 20th century — the desire to concentrate all information and power in one place — may become their decisive advantage in the 21st century," he writes.

There is no question that technology empowers China's one-party state to repress people effectively. Exhibit A for this proposition is, of course, the country's social credit system.

"Both residents and state media blasted it for its seemingly unfair and arbitrary criteria, with one state-run newspaper comparing the system to the 'good citizen' certificates issued by Japan during its wartime occupation of China."

Xi Jinping will not be as restrained as Rongcheng's officials. He evidently believes the Party must have absolute control over society and he must have absolute control over the Party. It is simply inconceivable that he will not include in the national social credit system, when it is stitched together, political criteria. Already Chinese officials are trying to use artificial intelligence to predict anti-Party behavior.

Xi Jinping is not merely an authoritarian leader, as it is often said. He is taking China back to totalitarianism as he seeks Mao-like control over all aspects of society.

The question now is whether the increasingly defiant Chinese people will accept Xi's all-encompassing vision. In recent months, many have taken to the streets: truck drivers striking over costs and fees, army veterans marching for pensions, investors blocking government offices to get money back from fraudsters, Muslims surrounding mosques to stop demolition, and parents protesting the scourge of adulterated vaccines, among others. Chinese leaders obviously think their social credit system will stop these and other expressions of discontent.



https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09- ... experiment

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Neshant » 13 Sep 2018 15:39

Chinis are going full steam to turn Uighurs into slaves of Hans.

Silence all round from Muslim "brothers" in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran..etc.

Pakistan was making good money selling a lot of "brothers" to US Guantanamo Bay for hard cash just a few years back.

-------

China installing QR codes on Uighur Muslim homes in mass seceurity crackdown

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 795623.cms

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 13 Sep 2018 17:10

Neshant wrote:Pick any aspect like religion and see how they stack up against the competition.

[*] Saudi arabia has "weaponized" its exported religion of Islam building mosques and training radicals all over the world.

[*] Christianity has gone on a global brainwashing & conversion spree gaining millions of followers.

[*] Even Bharat has exported Buddhism throughout South East Asia, China, Korea and Japan (and even the west).

What religion can you name that has come from China. I can't think of any.



None. But again they had exported their culture and writing system to what amounts to the entirety of first world Asia — Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau and Singapore. The new up and coming Asian tiger Vietnam is also Sinosphere.

You take the weight of the Sinosphere countries and compare it to all the muzzie ones and tell me who are the more powerful and important in the world today.

India exported Buddhism through Cheen to Korea, Japan and Taiwan while Cheen exported language and culture. But so what is the impact for India? Barely any. Those nations are overwhelmingly chini not hindi. China has become a global trading power because Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese found it far easier to visit, live and work in Cheen.

Or lets pick another aspect. What is the equivalent even Bollywood from China beyond martial arts Jacky Chan movies?


Bruce Lee, Jet Li and Donnie Yen too. The chini martial arts is arguably the biggest nonwhite genre in films. I don’t think most Americans think of bollywood when they think of Asian films. Kung Fu flicks were on Western television for close to four decades now.

Again, the size of the chini music and movie markets are soft power magnets because they force the rest of Asia (and Hollywood) to study Chinese tastes, trends and culture in order to sell into it.


Anime, managas and all that stuff is Japanese not Chinese. Girl bands, Hello Kitty, Cutesy "school girl" stuff are also a Japanese phenomena.
Many westerners are interested in Japanese culture and some even fly there to learn Japanese and their way of life. Cinis being 10x larger, how many are interested in learning Chinese beyond just for business purposes?


Again, Japan is Sinosphere. Westerns interested in Japan invariably gravitate towards China as well.

Economics is a huge part if not the dominant part of soft power anyways.

But China studies departments in American and Western universities had always been well established even when the PRC was piss poor. Their cultural weight is considerable. And not least because Cheen is studied as the mother culture — the Greece and Rome — of Japan (and Korea whose pop culture is eclipsing Japan’s.)

Chinis may conquer the world economically and militarily, but it sure as hell won't be culturally.


Yes, the West will remain dominant in global cultural standards for many more decades if not centuries yet. So that is a complete no-brainer.

But economics and pop culture often go hand in hand. Western dominance will erode on the margins in the coming decades.

Cheen has a massive head start in this compared to all the other non-goras based on size of market and their cultural influence on Japan, Korea and the rest of the sinosphere who, to be perfectly honest, form the only significant competition to gora domination. Chinese singers and actors are as tightly integrated in East Asia as ours are in the subcontinent. But they have Japan and we have Pakiland.

At any rate, the lack of chini soft power is only relevant when compared to the West. The rest of the non-gorah world lacks even more.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 13 Sep 2018 21:32



finally chinese take off and do night landing on liaoning, full on SYRE propaganda, just that evil Indians did it in 2014 Nov

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kengsley » 13 Sep 2018 22:23

ArjunPandit wrote:

finally chinese take off and do night landing on liaoning, full on SYRE propaganda, just that evil Indians did it in 2014 Nov


Considering that the video in question involves:

1. A series of take-offs and landings in succession
2. The use of the forward launch positions - they'd probably use the 200m launch position if this was the first night time take off
3. A significant amount of editing for production value/propaganda - looks more like a recruitment video and not the usual cctv news report

Suggests that the first night time landings were done a long time ago and that they have a significant number of pilots qualified for night landings and takeoffs. Plus the Liaoning - which has been used to qualify all of their pilots - has been in Dailan shipyard for close to 3 months now for a refit, so we know this footage is at least that old.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kengsley » 13 Sep 2018 22:50

Their fifth Type 071 LPD pennant number 980 has been commissioned into the Chinese Navy:

Image

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kengsley » 13 Sep 2018 22:59

And in the short time the Type 002 has been back at Dailan Shipyard from her second sea trial, they've installed her arrestor cables:

Image

Image

Would they commence fixed wing flight trials during the ship's builder's trials? She hasn't been handed over to the navy for her official PLAN trials yet...

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 13 Sep 2018 23:03

just the mere ability of long range flankers to operate at night and bad weather will scare off slow LRMP planes
this scaring off will create a better operating env for their submarines
which will increase the threat to enemy DDGs and carriers and drive them to more range
and reduce the threat to PLAN ships

its a whole chain of cause and effect

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Khalsa » 14 Sep 2018 08:58

AGI wrote:Their fifth Type 071 LPD pennant number 980 has been commissioned into the Chinese Navy:

Image

Image



Big ship indeed....
Great rate of progress
4/6 done.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 14 Sep 2018 15:58

ArjunPandit wrote:

finally chinese take off and do night landing on liaoning, full on SYRE propaganda, just that evil Indians did it in 2014 Nov


SDREs do it with greater skills and nerves since our Kiev class STOVL/helo cruiser refit is far smaller and much more dangerous to land on.

AGI wrote:And in the short time the Type 002 has been back at Dailan Shipyard from her second sea trial, they've installed her arrestor cables:

...

Would they commence fixed wing flight trials during the ship's builder's trials? She hasn't been handed over to the navy for her official PLAN trials yet...


Yeah, not having to wait for the Russians to send you gear for the aviation complex does wonders for your construction timeline.

They seem to be crazy fast on the build end of things. But not so sure on the training side. They have their cruise ship housing personnel at dockside to the carrier but I assume that’s for the ship’s crew. Too early for the air crew in my opinion.

Thanks for posting and welcome, AGI saar. There is such a steady pace of “leaks” at the chini mil watch forums that if you take a little time off, like I did, to pursue study of Chinese soft power (namely chini girl groups and their bikini videos) that you would miss out on things like the arrestor cables and a new 20K ton LPD :-?

I miss the good old J-10/LCA flame war days when the chinese fanboys were so devoid of material they were photoshopping Lavis and F-16s. Those were hilarious times. Now, not so much.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 16 Sep 2018 15:03

Chini Growler, J-15D, in primer.

Image

Image

PLAN is systematically building out its carrier aviation. We see constant moves in logical order. Cat-launch J-15T prototypes, KJ-600 AEW program, F-15D EW, etc.

And, of course, they are already building their next carriers even as their new one is just entering sea trials. The project planning is immaculate given the long lead times involved.

No waiting around for approvals from their MOD for the chini navy, I imagine.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 18 Sep 2018 12:48

Some intel from QuantumFx at the AFM forum:

J-16 0404 — 4th batch so possibly around 100 of this latest chini flanker ripoff now as batches are between 24 and 28:
Image
Image
Image

J-16 with KD-88 LACM training round
Image

J-10C with KD-88 (difference of J-10C from the “B” variant below is the extra blade antenna on spine)
Image

J-10B SEAD with 2x YJ-91 (anti-radiation variant):
Image

Serial production (probably LSP) Z-20 CopyHawk:
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Hari Nair » 18 Sep 2018 13:53

The Zhi-20 CopyHawk seems to be perhaps, one better than the original?
Its a five bladed main rotor compared to the original four bladed design.
Five blades should translate into better high altitude performance and lower vibrations. We should be seeing this at the TAR airfields soon, I suppose.
The pic does not have sufficient resolution, however it seems that the tail rotor has a more conventional design with drag dampers as compared to the original 'stiff-in-plane' crossbeam design.
Any news on the installed powerplants?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 18 Sep 2018 14:12

Hari Nair wrote:The Zhi-20 CopyHawk seems to be perhaps, one better than the original?
Its a five bladed main rotor compared to the original four bladed design.
Five blades should translate into better high altitude performance and lower vibrations. We should be seeing this at the TAR airfields soon, I suppose.
Any news on the installed powerplants?


They spent around three decades reverse engineering the S-70 so it is expected that they will add some improvements that come from the evolution in philosophy over that period.

Unlike licensed TOT (Z-9, Z-8, Z-11 or J-11 for that matter) actual RE projects are never exact copies anyways because trying to replicate every one of the thousands of parts with the same tolerances would take you infinitely longer than a clean sheet design.

The Blackhawks they imported in the 1980s are still being used in the TAR and surrounding areas today in spite of embargo precisely because of their high altitude performance. So people expect the Z-20 to occupy tge same role and more.

The powerplants are supposed to be the new 2100 hp WZ-10 turboshaft. The original imported S-70s had the GE T700. Most likely, the WZ-10 combined their TOT experience with Turbomeca and elements of the amreeki engine. The chini forums have rumors that spinoffs from the WZ-10 are helping their chronically anemic Z-10 attack helos.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Sep 2018 16:38

So Zhi-20 is actual reverse engineering unlike Flanker series which I think still are mostly screwdrivergiri with most components from Russia.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby SaiK » 18 Sep 2018 17:40

Am I linking this to a wrong dhaaga?

https://amp.businessinsider.com/japan-s ... sea-2018-9

Japan is staring China down with its first submarine drills in the contested South China Sea

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 20 Sep 2018 14:19

Aditya_V wrote:So Zhi-20 is actual reverse engineering unlike Flanker series which I think still are mostly screwdrivergiri with most components from Russia.


They undoubtedly use Russian components in the sino-flankers but I imagine far less than when they began the SU-27SK program.

And unlike any other screwdrivergiri where you are screwing together components for exactly one model onlee and in exactly the number dictated by the russkies, the chinis are allowed to screwdriver together any variant their little lizard minds could think up and in any numbers they want.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-11

J-11A – Chinese/Russian assembled Su-27SK from Russian-made kits. 104 were built. They were later upgraded with MAWS. Unconfirmed upgrades include improved cockpit displays, and fire control systems for R-77 or PL-10 missiles.[23] It is also called J-11.[24]

J-11B – Indigenously-produced version using Chinese technology,[23] and the first J-11 variant to use the WS-10A turbofan.[25] The airframe is slightly lighter due to greater use of composites.[26] It has new avionics, a glass cockpit, MAWS, and onboard oxygen generator system.[27] Upgrading to AESA radar may have been planned.[26]

J-11BS – A twin-seat version of the J-11B.[23] In 2012, the number of J-11B and J-11BS in service was over 120.[28]

J-11BH – Naval version of the J-11B.[26][29] It was first sighted in May 2010.[26][30]

J-11BSH – Naval version of the J-11BS.[26][29]

J-15 – Carrier-based version based on the J-11B, incorporating structural elements from the Sukhoi Su-33 prototype purchased from Ukraine in 2001. It uses avionics from the J-11B.[31]

J-16 – Twin-seat strike fighter[23] based on Russian Sukhoi Su-30MKK sold to China in 2000.[32] It is claimed to be a variant of the J-11BS.[33][34]

J-11D – Variant with fixed electronically scanned array radar, IRST, and capability to fire heavier imaging/infrared (IIR) air-to-air missiles. The airframe makes greater use of composite materials, especially in the engine intakes for lower radar observability. The wings have three hardpoints each. Unconfirmed reports claim it has a new fly-by-wire control system, glass cockpit, improved EW systems, and an improved version of the WS-10A engine.[35]


And that exhaustive list above is missing the:
J-15T (CATOBAR),
J-15S (twin seat),
J-15D (EW),
J-16D (EW) and
J-16H (Naval.)

Oh, and multiple converted engine testbeds for their WS-10 programs.

That kind of screwdrivergiri is properly negotiated and ACTUAL transfer of technology, me thinks.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby VinodTK » 20 Sep 2018 18:25

Source: Popular Mechanics Counterfeit Air Power: Meet China's Copycat Air Force
As China’s world influence expands, so is its military. An increasingly capable Navy, large investments in weapons tech, and its first overseas military base speak to President Xi Jinping’s goal to make China a global superpower.

But to match that ambition, the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has turned to other countries for “inspiration” when it comes to outfitting its armed forces. Although buying or stealing foreign military technology could be seen as a strategic weakness, China skips expensive and time-consuming R&D.

And nowhere is fast-and-loose weapons adoption (and its inherent shortcomings) more apparent than in China’s Air Force. Like the U.S, China deploys aircraft with a broad range of capabilities, but unlike the U.S. most of China’s planes are based on plans purchased or stolen from its adversaries. Here are seven of them.

Chengdu J-10 and U.S. F-16

In the 1980s, the U.S. partnered with Israel to develop a new combat aircraft based on the General Dynamics F-16. But as costs rose, the U.S. pulled out of the deal, leaving Israel’s “Lavi” fighter unfinished. Years later American officials discovered that Israel sold the Lavi’s development plans to China, granting them unprecedented access to technologies first developed for the F-16.

The J-10 shared more than a striking visual resemblance with the F-16. The technology sourced through Israel allowed China to advance significantly over the 1960s era fighters they were fielding at the time. This would not be the last Chinese fighter to incorporate elements of the F-16, but it's the most direct.

An updated version of the J-10 entered into service last year with an advanced fire control radar array, an increased use of composite materials to reduce weight, and a number of other domestically developed updates that aim to keep the J-10 capable for decades to come.

Shenyang J-11/16 and Russian Sukhoi Su-27

WIKIMEDIA COMMONSUSAF AND AIRWOLFHOUND
As the Soviet Union neared collapse in 1989, China seized the opportunity to secure the production line for the Sukhoi Su-27, an air superiority fighter developed to counter American jets like the T-14 Tomcat. The Soviets, keen to sell China a new MiG design instead, were left with little choice in the face of looming economic ruin.China quickly set about producing their own Su-27s, and then improving upon the design to develop what would become the J-11.

Unlike other fighters China employed at the time, the Su-27 brought advanced avionics systems and fly-by-wire technology that China was also able to incorporate into later platforms.

In 2000, Russia sold China a number of advancements they’d made to their own Su-27 platform, and China’s subsequent effort to incorporate them alongside domestically developed technologies has since resulted in the the J-16—a modified and updated Su-27.

Shenyang J-15 and Russian Sukhoi Su-33

China’s J-15 serves as their primary carrier based aircraft, and if China had gotten their way, it would have been produced originally by simply purchasing the production line for the Su-33 (which is Russia’s carrier-capable version of the Su-27).

When the Soviets refused to part with their Su-33 design secrets, China purchased an Su-33 prototype aircraft from Ukraine, dubbed the T-10K-3, and quickly set about reverse engineering it.

The result is a carrier-based fighter that shares the Su-33’s folding wing design and overall appearance coupled with a few Chinese improvements like incorporating more composite materials to reduce overall weight.

Technically speaking, the J-15 could be considered the superior fighter to America’s long serving (and fastest) intercept fighter, the F-15—at least on paper. With a faster top speed, greater maximum G-load, and slightly higher operational ceiling, China has been happy to contend that a dog fight between the two jets would undoubtedly result in a Chinese victory;

But the J-15 is severely hindered by its launch apparatus. China’s dated Liaoning carrier’s inferior catapult and ramp system to launch fighters severely limits the maximum operational weight of the J-15, reducing the total ordnance it can take into fight. New carriers under development promise to offer an electromagnetic catapult similar to those used on America’s new Ford class carriers, but the J-15 may not live to see service on such a ship.

CASC Caihong-4 and U.S. MQ-9 Reaper

While there is no definitive publicly available evidence to support America’s claims that China’s Caihong-4 (CH-4) armed drone is based on stolen plans for the General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper, seeing is believing. The resemblance is striking but similarities are only skin deep

Despite clearly being modeled after the American UAV, the CH-4 boasted fewer outboard stations for mounted ordnance while delivering comparable flight characteristics and duration, suggesting that it’s propulsion system is not as capable as those fielded on the Reaper.

However, China promptly set about working to match the Reaper’s capability within their own drone program, leading to the newer and more robust CH-5, which is an updated version of their first attempt at copying the American platform.

FC-1 Xiaolong and Soviet MiG-21

China’s love affair with Russian fighters doesn’t only include Sukhoi designs. In the 1960s, China purchased production plans for the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21, which was modified and updated into China’s J-7 platform. In the years since, that J-7 became the basis for a new joint venture with Pakistan that aimed to field a new fighter that could compete with a different MiG—the newer Soviet MiG-29.

Thanks to China’s access to F-16 design specs through Israel’s “Lavi” program, that joint venture resulted in an amalgamation of F-16 and Mig-21 characteristics, creating an aircraft that some contend is greater than the sum of its parts. Elements of both aircraft can be seen in the FC-1 (JF-17 in Pakistan), with the F-16’s nose and tail joined by a distinctly MiG-21 wing design.

This plane continues to fly today, and is by many accounts a fighter that can stand toe-to-toe with jets designed decades after it first flew.

The newest iterations of the JF-17 now include air-to-air refueling capabilities, greater use of composite materials to reduce weight, and fly-by-wire technology first procured through a different Soviet purchase.

Chengdu J-20 and U.S. F-22 Raptor

WIKIMEDIA COMMONSALERT5 AND USAF
The J-20, China’s first fifth generation fighter, was purpose built not only to serve as a competitor for America’s F-22 Raptor, but in many ways, as a direct copy. Plans for the Lockheed Martin design were stolen by a Chinese national named Su Bin, who was sentenced to 46 months in federal prison for his crime. The repercussions of his efforts on behalf of the Chinese government will live on for decades.

Aside from the obvious addition of forward canards on the J-20, the two aircraft look nearly identical thanks to China’s access to classified F-22 development data, but as is often the case, the similarities seem to end with the aesthetic.

Because China lacks extensive background in stealth technology, it’s widely believed that the J-20’s stealthy design is limited by their inferior radar-absorbant coating, production materials, and even those tell-tale canards (which some believe will have an adverse effect on its stealth profile).

American defense experts have said that China’s J-20 will have a far larger radar signature than the F-22, but other variables may ultimately render any American advantages moot. The U.S. canceled the F-22 program in 2011 with fewer than 200 built. China, on the other hand, will continue to produce J-20s in large quantities for years to come.

Shenyang J-31 and the U.S. F-35

Like the F-22, Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter was also compromised by Su Bin, leading to China’s J-31 program. This jet, still under development, possesses a greater operational range and larger payload capacity than the F-35 it was based on. There is an expectation that the J-31 will become China’s primary carrier-based fighter once it reaches full production, replacing the PLA-N’s troubled J-15 once it enters service. Like the J-20 program, the J-31 is limited by China’s inexperience with stealth aircraft.

Aesthetically, the J-31 seems to borrow heavily from both the F-35 and F-22 programs, suggesting that it may be lighter and more maneuverable than America’s top-tier fighter. But it does lack some degree of the F-35’s stealth characteristics, as well as the American jet’s real claim to fame—a sensor suite that offers the pilot greater awareness of the battlespace.

In many ways, the F-35 serves not only as a fighter, but as a data hub. There is no indication that China’s J-31 has been able to fuse such a large variety of feeds into a singular manageable interface. That means the F-35’s ability to fight from beyond the horizon won’t be found in its Chinese knock-off.

Go to the sight to see the side by side pictures os all the planes

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Sep 2018 12:26

Is this a joke

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/20/politics/russia-china-sanctions-caatsa-state-dept/index.html

US sanctions Chinese military for buying Russian weapons

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby souravB » 21 Sep 2018 14:26

^^ Bound to happen sometime. CAATSA is just an excuse. After that show of might in Vostok 2018, it was just a matter of time. I for one am not surprised at all if this the whole truth.
Now blacklisting companies in US market would be easier for unkil.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 21 Sep 2018 15:15

^^^ Yes, no joke. Pretty sure that the PLA buys and sells stuff from and to the US even if it were just Amreeki strategy books from the US Naval Institute and toy models. They are pretty slavish to US philosophy and doctrine.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 21 Sep 2018 15:34

New export version of the Z-10. PDF says the chinis learn from Paki evaluation and had made changes including uprated engine. Pukes might need to go back to the Z-10
since the T-129 from the Turks might be embargoed by Trump.

https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status/1041839909638557697

Image

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby nam » 21 Sep 2018 21:23

chola wrote:New export version of the Z-10. PDF says the chinis learn from Paki evaluation and had made changes including uprated engine. Pukes might need to go back to the Z-10
since the T-129 from the Turks might be embargoed by Trump.


If the Chini required Pakis to test their kit to find out if they work or not.... well, I would only worry about kit deployed by Chinis, but also exported.

That means all their J10/15s/20s/30s ...

Now we can also infer FC-21 is the only Chini jet that works, although I have not seen it fire BVR.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 22 Sep 2018 06:06

If anything china pays more for this licensing cum tinkering model than pure licensing of hal

Like brahmos corp / arihant perhaps a rotating cast of russian experts also comes for onsite and mentoring work

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 22 Sep 2018 07:03

nam wrote:
chola wrote:New export version of the Z-10. PDF says the chinis learn from Paki evaluation and had made changes including uprated engine. Pukes might need to go back to the Z-10
since the T-129 from the Turks might be embargoed by Trump.


If the Chini required Pakis to test their kit to find out if they work or not.... well, I would only worry about kit deployed by Chinis, but also exported.

That means all their J10/15s/20s/30s ...

Now we can also infer FC-21 is the only Chini jet that works, although I have not seen it fire BVR.


The danger from chini equipment is not whether it performs in war. They haven’t fought a godddam war in the four decades their power grew and they took over the SCS.

The danger is in whether it can be built in numbers and can go from one spot in the global commons or sundry disputed locations to the next and establish chini presence during peace time — which is 99.99% of the time their military is wielded.

We do not have to worry about “J10/15s/20s/30s” during war, not after the PLA practically begged us to give them a beating at Doklam. I’ve given up hope of war with the SYREs.

We should think, though, about about J-15s launching off CATOBARs in the IOR during peace time to establish themselves as a clear number two after Unkil.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 22 Sep 2018 11:20

in other news the lead ship of the 27DDG Maya class has been commisioned in Japan.
this is 3rd generation aegis system vessel after the kongo and atago class.

96 VL cells packed as needed with SM6 ERAM, SM2 SAM, ESSM and SM3 TBMD, and a large 8200t computer and sensor packed hull.
very tall bridge vs vanilla ddg51 shape.

superb build cycle and fit n finish

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Hari Nair » 22 Sep 2018 11:26

chola wrote:New export version of the Z-10. PDF says the chinis learn from Paki evaluation and had made changes including uprated engine. Pukes might need to go back to the Z-10
since the T-129 from the Turks might be embargoed by Trump.


Some changes that are apparent - the stub wings appear to have been shortened - perhaps to improve high altitude hover performance?

The Blackhawks they imported in the 1980s are still being used in the TAR and surrounding areas today in spite of embargo precisely because of their high altitude performance. So people expect the Z-20 to occupy the same role and more.


Interesting - back in the 80s, when we had activated after the Sumodrong Chu incident ahead of Tawang, we would routinely encounter their then spanking new S-70s in our then spanking new Mi-17s near the ThagLa ridge. There were at least 3-4 times when I flew south of the Sumodrong Chu on my mission with the S-70 flying nearly alongside north of the nullah on his mission. They had built a helipad on the south side of ThagLa at a fairly high elevation where the S-70 would land. The only reaction from the S-70 when he spotted us was to switch ON his anti-collision strobe lights to warn us to keep away.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 22 Sep 2018 11:28

american magic - kirishima smashes a mrbm in space using a SM3



the final stage weapon seems to have X based thrusters with oxidiser carried onboard or cold gas system for use in space and a IIR sensor....it then does HTK.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 22 Sep 2018 15:04

Hari Nair wrote:
chola wrote:New export version of the Z-10. PDF says the chinis learn from Paki evaluation and had made changes including uprated engine. Pukes might need to go back to the Z-10
since the T-129 from the Turks might be embargoed by Trump.


Some changes that are apparent - the stub wings appear to have been shortened - perhaps to improve high altitude hover performance?

The Blackhawks they imported in the 1980s are still being used in the TAR and surrounding areas today in spite of embargo precisely because of their high altitude performance. So people expect the Z-20 to occupy the same role and more.


Interesting - back in the 80s, when we had activated after the Sumodrong Chu incident ahead of Tawang, we would routinely encounter their then spanking new S-70s in our then spanking new Mi-17s near the ThagLa ridge. There were at least 3-4 times when I flew south of the Sumodrong Chu on my mission with the S-70 flying nearly alongside north of the nullah on his mission. They had built a helipad on the south side of ThagLa at a fairly high elevation where the S-70 would land. The only reaction from the S-70 when he spotted us was to switch ON his anti-collision strobe lights to warn us to keep away.


Hari Sir! I thank you so very much for that reply and your service.

It would be wonderful to hear your opinion and your experience on the border with the PLA. Amazing how things had changed. Were not for the Tianenmen Square Massacre we might be seeing a chini military full of amreeki hardware today.

Also, it’s been asked multiple times in this thread why the Americans and Chinese like the Blackhawk so much when it seems the Mi-17 with its ramp is more useful and efficient in most situations.

Can you give us your opinion on this? The rear-ramp layout versus the side door one? This is an intriguing question especially since the PLA flies hundreds of Mi-17s too but insists on cloning a Blackhawk.

We’d love to have the professional view on the matter!

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Hari Nair » 22 Sep 2018 18:47

chola wrote:
It would be wonderful to hear your opinion and your experience on the border with the PLA. Amazing how things had changed. Were not for the Tianenmen Square Massacre we might be seeing a chini military full of amreeki hardware today.

Also, it’s been asked multiple times in this thread why the Americans and Chinese like the Blackhawk so much when it seems the Mi-17 with its ramp is more useful and efficient in most situations.

Can you give us your opinion on this? The rear-ramp layout versus the side door one? This is an intriguing question especially since the PLA flies hundreds of Mi-17s too but insists on cloning a Blackhawk.

We’d love to have the professional view on the matter!


Interesting point raised there - why the preference for cloning the Blackhawk...Well, I can think of the following:
On the plus side-
The UH-60 / S-70 family have exceptional crashworthiness - proven better than the US Military Standard MIL-1290. Its due to a combination of the tail-wheel layout, crashworthy fuselage, undercarriage and seats. I wonder how much of those techs the Chinks cloned?
The UH-60 / S-70 are battle-damage tolerant using outsized hardened components in critical systems and controls. The Mi-17 is'nt far behind there.
The systems design and redundancies are way better than the Mi-17. It manoeuvrability is also far better, making it better for troop induction in the battlefield.
Its faster than the Mi-17. Along with better manoeuvrability and compact size, its better suited for special ops roles.
It has comparable underslung capability with the Mi-17.

On the Minus side:
It has a smaller cabin, carries far fewer troops than the Mi-17.
It lacks the clamshell door (rear door) layout that gives greater mission flexibility.
Its high-altitude capabilities are lesser than the Mi-17.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 23 Sep 2018 07:44

Hari sir,
Any way I could get in touch with you? An email ID or something please?
Thanks.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby SSridhar » 24 Sep 2018 08:12

PLA doubles new recruits' training period to improve combat readiness - PTI
The Chinese military has doubled the training period for new recruits of its ground forces from three to six months in a bid to improve their combat capabilities, state media reported on Friday.

The new recruits of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) will be trained on professional skills before they are allocated to different companies, which have their own schedules and pace for professional skills training, Global Times quoted the PLA Army announcement as saying.

The PLA is the world's largest military with two million troops.

The new recruits could not keep pace with veterans, and veterans are not receiving enough training, the announcement said.

The problem has influenced and curbed the sustainable development of the PLA Army's combat capability, an anonymous official of a training bureau was quoted as saying in the announcement.

"Now the new recruit training is more effective, and they will be allocated to combat units after being fully trained to the standard of a qualified soldier," the official said.

Tian Liang, political commissar of the 2nd group of new recruits in the 71st Group Army said: "The extended training period and additional training content have ensured the new recruits can blend faster into different units and be prepared for combat".

The enrolment period has been held in summer and autumn since 2013, before that it happened in winter.

The change in 2013 allows new recruits to join the PLA Army in September and also helps increase the proportion of university graduates among the recruits.

The new recruits are placed alongside veterans in March after six months of training, it said.

The additional three months of training gives six months to the new recruits to adapt to military life and receive comprehensive training, the report added.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Neshant » 24 Sep 2018 12:42

They are truly insane.

1 million people detained in camps to eliminate their ethnicity.

-----

Own up to mass Muslim detentions, Amnesty tells China

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 24 Sep 2018 14:05



One way to look at it is their battle readiness today. Another way of course is that they are serious about future. They have had it easy for quite sometime. They have been scaring others with their size and their demonstrated ability to bear large losses without giving up(60 years ago). May be They realize that the good times wont last. Single kids families and precision weapons will make them bear huge losses

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 24 Sep 2018 14:30

Neshant wrote:They are truly insane.

1 million people detained in camps to eliminate their ethnicity.

-----

Own up to mass Muslim detentions, Amnesty tells China

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst


Strategic advantage to them as they are the only ones willing to tackle this danger head-on. And the fact they are doing this in front of their Pukes allies tells me they put their security ahead of niceties and political correctness.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 24 Sep 2018 16:55

They had/have the advantage of having almost that entire population localized in one part of the country, and that too at a corner (away from the main population center)

They want to eliminate the very possibility of a smart, determined neighbor using this as an Achilles heel against them

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 24 Sep 2018 21:28

the mighty hobart class ddg in pearl harbour - another anti cheen asset should a fight erupt in west pacific
a variant of the alvaro de bazan F100 spanish design

does not have the BMD SM3 of the jmsdf ships

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