China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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chola
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 29 Jan 2019 13:39

Interesting study of Cheen’s two carriers from the same location and angle.

Nearly identical save for some rather minor differences on the islands.

The Varyag was laid down in Ukraine in 1985. No major outward design changes after 4 decades it seems. A brand new sister ship to the Kuznetsov and Varyag after all these years. No imagination.

Liaoning/Varyag
Image

Type 001A (or Type 002 I’ve seen different designations)
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 29 Jan 2019 13:56

the radars are taller and bigger.
the russians as is their pet mantra, packed 16-20 enormous granit silos where the hull starts to narrow down toward the ski jump.
these have been deleted from both of these.
even in a carrier, space is always contested and a carrier lives and dies by its air wing and sortie rate. Su33 is a large plane. hanger space is precious.
also the various sponsons on the kuznetsov packed with some 196 SAMS are either deleted or left as empty shells - i would say a few CIWS guns and small boxes of SRSAM are all we will see.

apart from the su33/su27 being sub optiomal off the ski jump, the other issue would be the power plant - steam turbines and boilers....how much of upkeep they need .... for a long mission 6 months to the east coast of africa and med sea to project global power, definitely very high quality power plant is a must.

I think our vikky has been to sri lanka so far :roll: not sure if 1 engined recovery has been demoed by mikoyan else it was tying down vikky to be within range of a recovery apt like goa and kochi :roll:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 02 Feb 2019 14:31

US: China Biggest Counter intellligence Threat

The officials painted a multifaceted picture of the threat posed by China, as they were questioned repeatedly by senators about the No. 2 world economy's business practices as well as its growing international influence.

"The Chinese counterintelligence threat is more deep, more diverse, more vexing, more challenging, more comprehensive and more concerning than any counterintelligence threat I can think of," FBI Director Christopher Wray said.

He said almost all the economic espionage cases in the FBI's 56 field offices "lead back to China."

Coats said intelligence officials have been travelling around the United States and meeting with corporate executives to discuss espionage threats from China.

He said China has had a meteoric rise in the past decade, adding, "A lot of that was achieved by stealing information from our companies."

The testimony came just a day after the United States announced criminal charges against China's Huawei Technologies Co Ltd, escalating a fight with the world's biggest telecommunications equipment maker and coming days before trade talks between Washington and Beijing.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 02 Feb 2019 18:31

^^^ LoL. Very different from the Cold War days when the US was encouraging exchanges (and defections) while the USSR tried to restrict travel for its citizens.

Cheen OTOH floods the West with people (student, tourists, immigrants.)

They might need to do a second Chinese-Exclusionary Act. But there will be unintended consequences. A sudden cutoff of chini tuition, tourist and investment money and also a reverse braindrain.

All non-gora nations suffer from a massive braindrain of their brightest to the West. This might or might not give PRC an advantage by blocking that advenue for their best.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 02 Feb 2019 20:04

Chinese have penetrated the US system quite well probably they spent a lot of time learning about US and not making the same mistake US made , I saw an interview with Madeline Albright who says we need to work with the Chinese as our economy is deeply integrated with Chinese ...... The Chinese have made deep impression with the Demps :lol:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 02 Feb 2019 20:05

Summary of China's launches in 2018.
38 successful launches & 103 satellite/spacecraft into space. 12 were foreign or with foreign partner.

https://twitter.com/hanipersian/status/ ... 9224961024

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 02 Feb 2019 20:50

Austin wrote:Summary of China's launches in 2018.
38 successful launches & 103 satellite/spacecraft Long into space. 12 were foreign or with foreign partner.

https://twitter.com/hanipersian/status/ ... 9224961024



The failed launch is from Landspace, one of their private space ventures. IMO, this might be more impact long term than all the CNSA (their ISRO equiv) launches.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 02 Feb 2019 22:56

i dont think there is truly an private space launch co in the world who started from scratch. those that claim to be private like spaceX have received massive help from govt (nasa) in tot, testing, mentoring, patents, funds and trained people.
i am sure the people who work for scaled composites or blue origin are again all ex-govt/boeing/lockheed/thiokol/rocketdyne types.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Zynda » 02 Feb 2019 23:15

Austin wrote:Chinese have penetrated the US system quite well probably they spent a lot of time learning about US and not making the same mistake US made , I saw an interview with Madeline Albright who says we need to work with the Chinese as our economy is deeply integrated with Chinese ...... The Chinese have made deep impression with the Demps :lol:

OT

I do see a lot more hate for Russia from many US liberal commentators. Its almost like China is a non-existential threat for them. They go back to how Russia/Putin is the real enemy and out to destroy US value system.

This may be due to the fact that many lib commentators hate Trump and think Russia election meddling is a useful "tool" to get rid of him.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 02 Feb 2019 23:53

Ideologically the Leftist Dems are alligned with communist China so they have a lot of soft heart for them and they hate Russia coz their government is Center right during Cold War it used to be exact opposite where Rep used to hate SU , it’s only very relevutantly that dems accept China as threat with conditions , they some how think they lost the election due to Putin which Hillary was surely going to win :((

Countries that are powerful are also the most insecure ones as they always fear loosing it that’s the nature of power

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby SSridhar » 03 Feb 2019 07:36

Guys, just a reminder. This is China Military Watch thread.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 03 Feb 2019 08:42

Singha wrote:i dont think there is truly an private space launch co in the world who started from scratch. those that claim to be private like spaceX have received massive help from govt (nasa) in tot, testing, mentoring, patents, funds and trained people.
i am sure the people who work for scaled composites or blue origin are again all ex-govt/boeing/lockheed/thiokol/rocketdyne types.


Yes but it means there are now landing spots for surplus talent/experience. And because they are no longer the “national” team with full support they are likely forced to do with less on these “private” or secondary teams. Necessity is the mother of inventions as they say.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 03 Feb 2019 17:29

Intel tweets. Chini Growler in first. They are still developing major variants of this Flying Coffin. Despite horrid safety record, it will soldier on for decades yet because CATOBAR versions are coming too.

The buildup of J-20As at CAC in second. Chengdu still building J-10 marks so no conversion to J-20 onlee as some observers suggest. Unlike Khan, Cheen might not be able to afford an all-5th gen fleet.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1092001985929322497
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J-15D EW spotted again
Image


https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1090909576130629632
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Two J-20A and one factory fresh J-10C at CAC
Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 03 Feb 2019 19:10

their AF too is following the "force in being" model of PLAN - lots and lots of factory fresh gear lined up on aprons for satellites to see and shiver over.
what really is the combat ready and deployable core of the PLAAF is masked by these front ends and vast numbers.

i guess same applied to USSR with their 1000s of fighters and 100,000 SAMs, 100,000 tanks and army divisions spread across Cat-1,2,3.

my guess is they will have a hard time in the coming decade to fund the expansion with the funding levels of the last 15-20 years. they need to catch up to the yawning gap on all fronts - from 4++ gen kit, to missiles, to electronics, to SAMs....in pretty much no area are they on par with japan and american quality.

Xi has to strike a balance between funding his vast legions , more base R&D and keeping his restive hordes of factory workers in their seats and being allowed to produce iphones and machinery for the free world to consume.

being long lead items, we will see first signs of a decline when the number of keel layings drops. for example the gap in large DDG hulls is 100 (usn + jmsdf) vs 15 (052x) :lol:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Prasad » 03 Feb 2019 20:55

Youre right. The current slowdown might result in lesser funding for all these. We might see an impact next year in number of parked aircraft on aprons perhaps.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 03 Feb 2019 21:04

Xi miscalculated in term of imperial overreach and mistimed his saber rattling just when DT took the throne.
he is being punished and bluff called on all fronts, even by hitherto meek munnas like malaysia where a aeging Mahatir (93 years old!!) took down the OBOR scam.

he might have to stage a 'tactical retreat' , play nice for a while and 'hide his strengths' to escape with his skin intact and not get boxed into one corner. in parallel his gestapo will continue to purge and expel potential rivals to keep internal threats low. do not for a moment imagine that Bo Xilai types were the exception among the top echelons ... *all* those cats play in billions, have foreign wealth and passports for the kids, maybachs and bentleys.... not exactly sadhu's serving the hoi polloi.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 03 Feb 2019 21:45

^^^ If anything, Cheen will expand the MIC to make up for employment loss with the Great Squeezing from Trump. So you will see even more ships and planes in the immediate years IMO.

The “force in being” is strictly for the US and Japan though.

Against us, they don’t really have a force in being. A pathetic 6 or 7 ships (including provision and tankers) in the IOR at any given time and maybe a few dozen fighters with degraded performance in Tibet.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 03 Feb 2019 21:48

Xi must be hoping that this is Trumps last term and he does not get reelected , If Dems come they are safe.

DT administration must codify what ever agreement he does with china into a law so that the next administration does not water it down.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 03 Feb 2019 22:07

Looks weird

Video: Chinese soldiers marching at parade

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/stat ... 4639644672

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 03 Feb 2019 23:07

^^ there are more complex drills. i have seen a drill of japanese where several such rows cross another formation without colliding.

see @ 1:52 :twisted:


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 03 Feb 2019 23:11

That Chinese march is xerox copied from the Russians.

My goodness, they cannot do squat without xerox copying.

Useless and pathetic. No ingenuity. No thought process. Just shamelessly xerox copy.

This is what happens when they do not xerox-copy....


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby gaurav.p » 04 Feb 2019 00:05

Image

Image went viral on twitter, putting it here for the record. Showing the true colors of a commie mindset.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 04 Feb 2019 01:18

gaurav.p wrote:Image went viral on twitter, putting it here for the record. Showing the true colors of a commie mindset.


LOL. At least they’re up front about it!

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2019 05:54

Next the Chinese will claim, they meant EXPLORATION and not EXPLOITATION.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby gaurav.p » 04 Feb 2019 10:14

Rakesh wrote:Next the Chinese will claim, they meant EXPLORATION and not EXPLOITATION.


Indeed! This is truly the envisioned ' socialism with chinese characteristics'. Where a non-existential threat keeps them aloof, propaganda and censorship is normal, privacy is not present anywhere. Orwelian state.

A flopshow and a bogey. Given its current place just because it big/fat enough.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 04 Feb 2019 10:26

^^ cheen was used as a cats paw to undermine the ussr.
that use case is gone now.
now cheen is using noko as cats paw to undermine japan , usa, soko and TSP wrt india. while west would not mind india being in the mud with tsp, losing control of the western pacific will be strategic disaster for them hence the khujli to push back on cheen.

cheen have also done some errors in brutally exploiting poorer countries with debt and imported cheeni surplus labour than being a bit generous like massa was in an earlier gentler age. empires have to show generosity to vassals and bring them up for a durable relationship. but perhaps cheen dynamics with TSP drives its behaviour with others who have better self respect and culture :)

cheen and its lackey TSP conversing when bane(khan sahib) shows up to spoil the day
note the foxy tactical agility of TSP to pick the winning side in that little argument :twisted:


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby gaurav.p » 04 Feb 2019 11:02

Singha-ji you have found a gem. Hope someone overlays the faces of Winnie the pooh, begging cricketer and pussy grabber in the video. Would be viral! :lol:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 04 Feb 2019 12:04

as a co incidence the bulky build of tom hardy matches the orange gorilla. and the short weak stature of the dragon lord and the sly slippery tactical nature of his minion.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby ArjunPandit » 04 Feb 2019 17:23

^^what no one mentioned about the news chinese offering mighty liaoning to almighty pakis

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Feb 2019 18:42

If this news around the web is true and we know Pakis don't have the money to pay from it or its aircraft or the Carrier Battle group, it means the Aircraft carrier is junk and PLAAF does not want it. But then again media reports put the date of sale as 2030. Looks like the Chinese are havign huge troubles with it.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Singha » 04 Feb 2019 19:20

with the kuznetsov fading in ruN inventory, PLAN could quickly pickup and induct as they have 2 of the type already.
few small mods like removing gransit silos and SAMs can be done in 1 year.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Feb 2019 06:00

Singha wrote:
cheen and its lackey TSP conversing when bane(khan sahib) shows up to spoil the day
note the foxy tactical agility of TSP to pick the winning side in that little argument :twisted:


GD, your wit makes my day (many times) LoL

Non-warrior corporate shopkeeper chief when faced with violent and actual kinetic force. LoL

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Feb 2019 06:14

Singha wrote:with the kuznetsov fading in ruN inventory, PLAN could quickly pickup and induct as they have 2 of the type already.
few small mods like removing gransit silos and SAMs can be done in 1 year.


I don’t think Roos will give up the Kutz no matter what. Too much pride in that carrier.

But their desperation in saving the Kutz might involve Cheen.

Full story behind paywall but seems interesting.

https://economics.unian.info/m/10402440-russia-forced-to-sell-technology-to-china-in-exchange-for-repairing-ill-fated-admiral-kuznetsov-aircraft-carrier.html

Russia forced to sell technology to China in exchange for repairing ill-fated Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier

In case Russia fails to build another floating dock, all of their large naval vessels, including 1164- and 1144-type cruisers, will have to be repaired and modernized exclusively with China's help, the report says.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Feb 2019 15:56

Courtesy of our Rooskie “friends” — the SU-35 in lizard’s colors:
Image
Image

SU-57 next?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 05 Feb 2019 16:26

We’ll be seeing the chini CATOBAR being assembled sometimes this year I reckon.

Time for the MOD to greenlight IN’s proposal. If not, they’ll be catapulting their planes for many years — and gaining a new skill — while we wait interminably for ours. (We’ve lost catapult launching capability since removing the cat from the old Vikrant in the 1980s.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1092693709081186304

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Latest image of the halls at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai where the Type 003 flattop carrier hull modules are currently manufactured.

Image

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby John » 05 Feb 2019 17:49

chola wrote:
Singha wrote:with the kuznetsov fading in ruN inventory, PLAN could quickly pickup and induct as they have 2 of the type already.
few small mods like removing gransit silos and SAMs can be done in 1 year.


I don’t think Roos will give up the Kutz no matter what. Too much pride in that carrier.

But their desperation in saving the Kutz might involve Cheen.

Full story behind paywall but seems interesting.

https://economics.unian.info/m/10402440-russia-forced-to-sell-technology-to-china-in-exchange-for-repairing-ill-fated-admiral-kuznetsov-aircraft-carrier.html

Russia forced to sell technology to China in exchange for repairing ill-fated Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier

In case Russia fails to build another floating dock, all of their large naval vessels, including 1164- and 1144-type cruisers, will have to be repaired and modernized exclusively with China's help, the report says.


No surprise the amount money funneled by China to Russia under the table is reportedly well in triple digits of billion $ to get its hand on Russian tech. Unfortunately Russians squandered a good deal of it corruption, pet projects like Sochi.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 05 Feb 2019 18:21

chola wrote:https://economics.unian.info/m/10402440-russia-forced-to-sell-technology-to-china-in-exchange-for-repairing-ill-fated-admiral-kuznetsov-aircraft-carrier.html

Russia forced to sell technology to China in exchange for repairing ill-fated Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier

In case Russia fails to build another floating dock, all of their large naval vessels, including 1164- and 1144-type cruisers, will have to be repaired and modernized exclusively with China's help, the report says.



Quoting from a unknown Ukrainian website must be the most authoritative source out there , Like reading from National Interest website :lol:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Austin » 05 Feb 2019 18:22

gaurav.p wrote:Image went viral on twitter, putting it here for the record. Showing the true colors of a commie mindset.


:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 05 Feb 2019 23:09

Read below. Folks on BRF start dhoti-shivering seeing the Chinese build capacity. But this is the reality. Others on BRF use the build capacity to scare monger folks into believing that only a strategic alliance with America will save India from Chinese assimilation (or otherwise annihilation).

The Chinese threat is very real and it requires a real response. But there is no need to buy into the hype & fear and make ad-hoc purchases called F-16 Block 70/72.

Chinese navy veteran warns training, not hardware is key to military preparedness
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... y-military

When Wang Yunfei, a retired Chinese naval officer, was on vacation in Okinawa in January, he watched with a heavy heart as Japanese fighter jets and helicopters carried out a routine training exercise at Naha Airport. The cloud was low and the sky was murky and overcast. “The cloud was barely 200 to 300 metres above ground and the jets immediately disappeared into the cloud after take-off,” Wang said. “In China, [our military planes] would not have taken off [for training] if the cloud was lower than 400 metres above ground,” he explained. “Such conditions are dangerous [for military aircraft to take off] but they were able to carry on training despite the weather.”

As China expands its military might with new aircraft carriers, advanced fighter jets and other world-class weaponry, questions have been raised about whether the People’s Liberation Army can compete with other advanced forces. Wang, now a naval armament expert, pointed out that size was only one determining factor in modern warfare, and hardware could only answer part of the question as China raced to catch up with leading powers like the US and its top allies, including Japan. “Doubling the number of our warships would not make our military twice as strong strategically,” he said. “It is the people who use these weapons that count, and that essentially boils down to our level of training.

“Some people hold the view that our military planes are more advanced than others. But if we look at the level of training of our forces ... We are not at the same level [as others] yet.” Antony Wong Dong, a military expert based in Macau who has spent years studying the PLA, agreed with Wang’s assessment. Although the PLA – which has not fought a major war since the Korean war – has made great strides in improving training for its rank and file in past decades, Wong said there was much room for improvement to raise its “preparedness”. That was in fact the message from President Xi Jinping in December in a speech reminding the top brass that strengthening training and preparation for war would be the top priorities for the PLA in 2019. Naha, in Japan’s Okinawa prefecture, is home to the 9th Air Wing, which was set up three years ago with 40 F-15 fighter jets.

It was a time of growing assertiveness by China in the East China Sea, including over the contested Diaoyu Islands, which are administered by Tokyo but also claimed by Beijing and Taipei. According to the Joint Staff of the Japanese defence ministry, in the 2017 fiscal year, which started on April 1, there were 500 scrambles by Japan’s Air Self-Defence Force to intercept Chinese military aircraft flying over the region, compared with 851 scrambles in 2016. But in the first three quarters of the 2018 fiscal year, the number of scrambles reached 476, as Xi pushed the PLA to conduct more training, including exercises further from home. And, as China starts testing its first home-made aircraft carrier, Tokyo announced in December that it would convert its helicopter carrier, the destroyer Izumo, into an aircraft carrier capable of launching American F-35B fighter jets.

Against such a background, Wang said China needed to reflect deeply on its overall military strength in addition to investing in cutting-edge weaponry. This was the reason for his heavy heart at Naha Airport, as he watched the extent of Japanese military training. “On that day it was not just the F-15s taking off [at Naha], but also Ospreys and Sikorsky Seahawks, and the training went on non-stop the whole day,” Wang said. “It immediately came to my mind that we should not look down upon the Japanese forces. We must bear in mind that the level of training reflects your level of combat preparedness. Our fleet of warships and military planes far outnumber the Japanese forces, even by the number of more advanced generations of fighter jets ... but in real combat, the size of the battlefield is limited, whether it is at sea or in the sky. You cannot deploy everything you have. And when both sides deploy the same resources into the battlefield, we must not be blindly [optimistic] about our chance of winning.”

The rapid development of new hardware could also pose challenges for training Chinese troops, especially in helping them master the skills necessary to use and understand the new weapons. “We are still exploring. It is not that we are slack. [These new weapons] are just too advanced,” Wang said. “Like [the stealth fighter jet] J-20... or [carrier-based fighter jet] J-15, we initially didn’t know how to make the best use of them in different circumstances. “We only recently mastered how to take off and land [J-15s] at night. It is not certain if we are ready to undertake evening flight missions of these aircraft when they are loaded with heavy missiles,” he said. Military expert Wong said the PLA had yet to resolve many issues, including pairing up its J-15 fighter jets and its aircraft carriers. “To what extent can PLA troops and these weapons work seamlessly in executing tactics?” Wong said. “From what we saw on the news, [I would say that] there are still gaps in the quality and quantity of weapons that [our carrier-based aircraft] can actually carry.”

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 06 Feb 2019 13:02

Rakesh wrote:Read below. Folks on BRF start dhoti-shivering seeing the Chinese build capacity. But this is the reality. Others on BRF use the build capacity to scare monger folks into believing that only a strategic alliance with America will save India from Chinese assimilation (or otherwise annihilation).

The Chinese threat is very real and it requires a real response. But there is no need to buy into the hype & fear and make ad-hoc purchases called F-16 Block 70/72.



The chini warfighting threat is not really there to begin with against India. Not with 6 or 7 ships in IOR at any given time and a dozen or two of fighters at debilitating altitude in Tibet. Ground forces we outnumber them at least 10 to 1 across the whole border. Any fight will end in an overwhelming Indian victory.

But, because we’re both nuke states, chances of actual warfare is pretty much nil. I posted previous articles where Japan must scramble to intercept chini planes 850 odd times in 2016. I cannot find a single instance of intercept between desi and chini aircraft. War will never happen, I gave up hope of it after Doklam.

The real “threat” is the MIC during peace time. The flooding of the gray zones with machines operated by barely trained crews. Ill trained personnel won’t matter because the chinis don’t intend to fight.

The proper response is not shiver or even extend our current (overwhelming) advantage with more imports but to look at the lizards production and use it as a challenge to build our own MIC. Buying phoren chit combined with our training advantage would guarantee an even greater measure of superiority. But so what? The advantages we have in numbers alone over Cheen in any possible scenario is already overwhelming.

We should be able to buy 12 squadrons of Tejas or build a 65k ton CATOBAR carrier without worrying about importing phoren gear to tackle an “imminent” two front war.


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