China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

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chola
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 14 Jan 2020 18:22

Only cheen cookie cutter cheap AWACS.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1216757262452170752

@Rupprecht_A
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Funny yellow bird ... a factory fresh KJ-500.

Image


chola
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 15 Jan 2020 16:38

Still flying, making and selling MiG-21 ripoffs.

Not only the assembly lines for this ancient design have to be kept around but the manufacturing for obsolete turbojets too. Waste of resources or good jobs program to retain skills and keep the chini masses from being unemployed and revolting?

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1217113322656616450


@Rupprecht_A
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·
18h
Rarely seen J-7Bs assigned to the 18th Air Brigade/WTC spotting their colourful unit marking (a hawk's head).
Anyway I hoped, this unit would convert to a more modern type (J-10 was reported a few weeks ago).

Image



https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1216846555971497985

@Rupprecht_A
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Image of a rarely photographed Sudan Air Force FTC-2000S.

Image


Production FTC-2000 for export. In PLAAF and PLAN training units, it is called the JL-9:
Image

Image

Indranil
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Indranil » 16 Jan 2020 11:54

I will make a prediction. FTC2000 and L-15 derivatives will be the most exported aircraft out of Chinese stables. They will become the modern day Mig21 and F5 equivalent. And they don't even have competition. The closest would be the T-7 derivatives which will be more expensive to acquire and maintain.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chetonzz » 16 Jan 2020 15:02

...and the phakis still believe that JunkFighter-17 is their indigenous effort :lol: :lol: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

chola
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 16 Jan 2020 15:38

Indranil wrote:I will make a prediction. FTC2000 and L-15 derivatives will be the most exported aircraft out of Chinese stables. They will become the modern day Mig21 and F5 equivalent. And they don't even have competition. The closest would be the T-7 derivatives which will be more expensive to acquire and maintain.


Indranil, they have another aircraft in their stable that is even cheaper (and sells well because of it) and that is the K-8. It's been exported by the hundreds to over dozen different third world nations.

That said, the modern chini export jet, the successor to the F-7, should be the JF-17. The FTC2000, a F-7 retread, undercuts and cannibalizes its sales. For a turbofan based fighter, the Blunder should be the least expensive option for poorer air forces but not when you undercut it with a turbojet powered alternative. It's like that old cricket player who refuses to retire and continues to occupies a valuable spot in the batting order. lol

I think the L-15 has a ready made customer base that use the K-8 which came from the same chini firm Hongdu. It is a supersonic trainer. But even here the MiG-21 retread, the JL-9, had eaten into sales with the PLAAF and PLANAF. Chini mil watchers sometimes are incredulous that even their carrier academy trains with the JL-9 instead of the L-15.
Last edited by chola on 16 Jan 2020 16:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 16 Jan 2020 16:27

chola wrote:...

Indranil, they have another aircraft in their stable that is even cheaper (and sells well because of it) and that is the K-8. It's been exported by the hundreds to over dozen different turd world nations.


Humble request.. it may be fashionable in the west but on this forum let's not condescendingly disparage less developed countries as 't*rd world'

For one India herself is considered to be a third world country and for another several of these nations are our current/future Customers.. Thanks.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 16 Jan 2020 16:36

^^^ Point noted and taken, Manish ji.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Manish_P » 16 Jan 2020 17:35

Thank you for your understanding, Chola ji, and for your close watch on the Chinese Mil-Ind complex :)

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Indranil » 16 Jan 2020 20:28

The JF17 has competition from T50 from Korea. MWF and Gripen E/F will be ow become much more expensive. I think HAL should ask its IJT +HTT40 team to design a fighter jet with 30 kN of dry thrust and 45 kN of wet thrust. The trainer version of this will add a second seat at the cost of radar and ammo. The unmanned versions will become the loyal wingman and potential 5th Gen aerial target.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 16 Jan 2020 21:37

Indranil wrote:I will make a prediction. FTC2000 and L-15 derivatives will be the most exported aircraft out of Chinese stables. They will become the modern day Mig21 and F5 equivalent. And they don't even have competition. The closest would be the T-7 derivatives which will be more expensive to acquire and maintain.


We don't know whether T-7 will be more expensive to acquire than any of those unless we have the data in front of us and whether we are looking at an economic exercise (I have x $$ how many aircraft can I buy) or an affordability exercise that factors in capability, ability to meet missions, platform availability and support. On paper the Chinese Predator/Reaper knockoffs are much cheaper but there is plenty of information out there that provides a fairly good context to what also comes with that "affordable" sticker price. The T-7 is designed for 60 aircraft a year production rate so at FRP it should get quite affordable for what you get and possibly as affordable if not more affordable than some of the lesser capable trainers it will compete with.

Having said that, the air-vehicle piece of the T-7 is only about 50-60% of the program. As a trainer, nearly half of that program revolves around simulated training, Live and Virtual Construct and Open Mission Systems that allow very easy integration of new and projected capability into the training system. I suspect those buying the trainer will be evaluating that more heavily as sustaining that part of the enterprise over the next 3,4 or 5 decades is going to cost money, be technically challenging and require a level of dedication and investment that comes from a large single user or a large user-base in general. It will not only be traditional trainer for many but also an aircraft that will supplement flight hours for in-service experienced pilots. This is what will set it apart compared to the competition given the USAF and its budget is backing it with a 300-400 aircraft order sized and it is going to be a strong contender for the USN in the future adding hundreds of additional aircraft.

Though there would be very little overlap between the T-7 user base and those of the FTC-2000 and L-15. I suspect the T-7 user community will be users operating 4+ generation, 5th generation fighters and eyeing 6th generation aircraft. The FTC-200/L-15 market will predominantly be users who won't have access to the higher end western milware or may not want to operate it for other reasons.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kit » 21 Jan 2020 16:13

https://www.janes.com/article/93809/chinese-type-052d-destroyer-fitted-with-possible-anti-ship-missile-decoy-launchers

Image

Images have emerged of a Chinese Type 052D (Luyang III)-class destroyer fitted with what appears to be an anti-ship missile countermeasures system.

The photographs, which were taken during the nine-day 'Sea Guardian 2020' maritime exercise between the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) and the Pakistan Navy (PN), show that the destroyer Yinchuan (pennant number 175) has been modified, with a pair of tubes installed on each side of the hangar roof, which appear to be roughly 500 mm in diameter and perhaps 2 m in length.

The system is similar in appearance to the US Navy's (USN's) Mk 59 decoy launch system, which can deploy an expendable inflatable decoy designed to seduce an incoming anti-ship missile. The Mk 59 was first fitted to Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Ramage in late 2013.

source : Janes.com

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kit » 21 Jan 2020 16:17

i presume the decoy to be something to the one like this


Image

FDS3 inflatable floating corner reflector decoy at NAVDEX 2015. Based on the latest version of the Royal Navy’s Outfit DLF soft-kill decoy system, FDS3 is a ship-deployed, passive radio frequency (RF) countermeasure that can be used in seduction, distraction and confusion roles against even the most modern RF missile seekers.

The FDS3 system comprises a deck-mounted launch tube, which is preloaded with the stowed decoy.

Following launch activation in the operations room, the decoy package – of ‘metallised fabric’ construction – is launched out of the tube and then fully inflated alongside the ship’s hull on the sea surface.

Once fully inflated, the decoy is automatically released and floats free past the stern. According to Airborne Systems, the very rapid deployment and inflation time “means that full radar cross-section is achieved within seconds of launch into the sea… this provides for a very effective seduction capability suitable for use against supersonic and late turn-on threats”.

In September 2013, Airborne Systems announced a contract award from the US Navy to supply a variant of the FDS3 decoy system – designated Mk 59 Mod 0 – to meet a rapid response effort for improved soft-kill self-defence. In July 2014, it chalked up another success when New Zealand selected FDS3 as part of its ANZAC class Frigate Systems Upgrade programme.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Indranil » 21 Jan 2020 22:01

brar_w wrote:
Indranil wrote:I will make a prediction. FTC2000 and L-15 derivatives will be the most exported aircraft out of Chinese stables. They will become the modern day Mig21 and F5 equivalent. And they don't even have competition. The closest would be the T-7 derivatives which will be more expensive to acquire and maintain.


We don't know whether T-7 will be more expensive to acquire than any of those unless we have the data in front of us and whether we are looking at an economic exercise (I have x $$ how many aircraft can I buy) or an affordability exercise that factors in capability, ability to meet missions, platform availability and support. On paper the Chinese Predator/Reaper knockoffs are much cheaper but there is plenty of information out there that provides a fairly good context to what also comes with that "affordable" sticker price. The T-7 is designed for 60 aircraft a year production rate so at FRP it should get quite affordable for what you get and possibly as affordable if not more affordable than some of the lesser capable trainers it will compete with.

Having said that, the air-vehicle piece of the T-7 is only about 50-60% of the program. As a trainer, nearly half of that program revolves around simulated training, Live and Virtual Construct and Open Mission Systems that allow very easy integration of new and projected capability into the training system. I suspect those buying the trainer will be evaluating that more heavily as sustaining that part of the enterprise over the next 3,4 or 5 decades is going to cost money, be technically challenging and require a level of dedication and investment that comes from a large single user or a large user-base in general. It will not only be traditional trainer for many but also an aircraft that will supplement flight hours for in-service experienced pilots. This is what will set it apart compared to the competition given the USAF and its budget is backing it with a 300-400 aircraft order sized and it is going to be a strong contender for the USN in the future adding hundreds of additional aircraft.

Though there would be very little overlap between the T-7 user base and those of the FTC-2000 and L-15. I suspect the T-7 user community will be users operating 4+ generation, 5th generation fighters and eyeing 6th generation aircraft. The FTC-200/L-15 market will predominantly be users who won't have access to the higher end western milware or may not want to operate it for other reasons.

I love the T-7. As I have said before, I love any product which is good enough. T7 is an all aluminium plane driven by a reliable engine which doesn't push on the limits of its capability (yet!)

Chinese penetration into the defence markets of African, South American and South east Asian countries is grossly underestimated. 8000 Mig-21s and nearly 3000 F-5s have retired or at the brink of retirement. How many countries have the wherewithal to replace them with $100-$300 million fighter jets?

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rony » 21 Jan 2020 23:26

This One Cheap Fighter Jet From Sweden Crushed China's Air Force

A 2015 war game in Thailand underscored the enduring flaws in Chinese aerial-warfare tactics. Despite flying a modern fighter type, Chinese fighter pilots in Thailand were vulnerable to long-range attacks and slow to react to aggressive tactics.

Exercise Falcon Strike 2015, which ran at Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base for two weeks in mid-November 2015, was the first-ever joint exercise between the Chinese and Thai air forces.

The Chinese brought J-11 fighters to the war game. The Thai air force operates F-16s from Korat, but the for the war game the Thai air arm sent Gripen fighters from Surat Thani Air Force Base.

The Thai air force operates 12 JAS-39C/D Gripens.

For seven days straight the J-11s tangled with the Gripens. The J-11, which is a Chinese variant of the Russian Su-27, proved to be the superior dogfighter, a Chinese participant in the exercise explained in a presentation at China’s Northwestern Polytechnical University on Dec. 9, 2019. But in Thai hands the Gripen was a better long-range shooter.

Aviation website Alert 5 was the first to report on the presentation.

During the first day of mock combat, the J-11s and Gripens fought visual-range battles. The result was a lopsided victory for the Chinese air force. The powerful, twin-engine J-11s with their internal cannons and infrared-guided short-range missiles -- possibly PL-8s -- “shot down” 16 Gripens for zero losses.

In Thai service, the single-engine Gripen for close-range combat is armed with AIM-9 infrared-guided missiles and an internal cannon. It’s worth noting that the Gripen has a relatively poor thrust-to-weight ratio compared to many other fighter types. That limits its maneuverability in dogfights.


The Chinese pilots scored nine kills for one loss on day two. But as the war game continued, the Chinese pilots struggled to repeat their early successes.

The exercise shifted to beyond-visual-range engagements, where the Gripen armed with AIM-120 medium-range missiles proved to be the better fighter than the J-11 with its own medium-range missiles, possibly PL-12s.

On day three, the Thai pilots “shot down” 19 J-11s for a loss of three Gripens. Over the final three days of the war game, the Thais killed 22 Chinese jets and lost three of their own. The final tally for the exercise favored the Thai air force. The Gripens shot down 42 J-11s while the J-11s shot down just 34 Gripens.

Overall, 88 percent of the Thais’ kills occurred at a range of at least 19 miles, while the Chinese scored just 14 percent of their kills at the same range. The Gripens scored 10 kills at a distance of more than 31 miles. The J-11s scored no kills at this range.


“The Chinese pilots had poor situational awareness,” Alert 5 reported, citing the presentation. “Too much focus was on front of the aircraft rather than all around.” In phases of the war game where J-11s escorted other planes, there was a “lack of coordination.”

Chinese pilots “were not experienced in avoiding missile shots,” Alert 5 continued. “Their responses were too mechanical and [they] could not judge correctly the evasive techniques for missiles with different ranges.”



Beijing knows its pilots need better training. Around 2005 the Chinese air force began organizing realistic aerial war games in the vein of the U.S. Air Force’s Red Flag exercises. But these training events have yet to produce skilled pilots who are capable of fully exploiting the best Chinese-made warplanes.

"Numerous professional articles and speeches by high-ranking Chinese officers indicate the [Chinese air force] does not believe that its past training practices prepared its pilots and other per­sonnel for actual combat,” the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency explained in its January 2019 report on the Chinese military. “Unrealistic training manifested itself in multiple ways that hin­dered the [Chinese air arm]’s air-combat capabilities."


The Chinese military "recognizes that a gap exists between the skills of its pilots and those in 'the air forces of powerful nations," the DIA continued in its report. "To address training weak­nesses, [a former air force] commander said that when the [air force] trains, it must 'train for battle' instead of 'doing things for show…[or] going through the motions.'"

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 22 Jan 2020 00:13

Indranil wrote:Chinese penetration into the defence markets of African, South American and South east Asian countries is grossly underestimated. 8000 Mig-21s and nearly 3000 F-5s have retired or at the brink of retirement. How many countries have the wherewithal to replace them with $100-$300 million fighter jets?



$100-$300 Million aircraft aren't the only game in town, and neither are just new fighters. There are plenty of designs at a much lower cost (and capability) across the various needs. Yes manyof them are Chinese, but there are also Russian, European, South Korean and even the US with both new and used aircraft..Chinese aircraft (and not just manned) will likely pick up orders here and so will others..but that doesn't really compete with the T-7. The T-7 program will likely produce upwards of 700 aircraft over its lifetime but very little of those export orders will be in direct competition with Chinese aircraft..these will mostly be with nations who want the highest end capability currently available, and an aircraft to flex experienced pilots on. When a combat version of it is created..it will likely be for those who operate other western systems, operate the trainer and want a combat variant, or who want to integrate with western (US/NATO etc) systems but can't afford higher end fighters.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 27 Jan 2020 05:58

Estimating the Arms Sales of Chinese Companies (SIPRI)


Quantitative research on the finances of the Chinese arms industry has been limited by the scarcity of available data. A scoping study to estimate the financial value of the arms sales of companies in the Chinese arms industry—using a new methodology—found information on four companies: the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), the China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC), the China South Industries Group Corporation (CSGC) and the China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO). These four companies cover three main sectors of conventional arms production: aircraft, electronics and land systems.

The estimates suggest that China is the second-largest arms producer in the world, behind the United States and ahead of Russia. All four of the profiled companies would be ranked among the 20 largest arms-producing and military services companies globally in 2017, with three—AVIC, NORINCO and CETC—in the top 10. The new methodology improves the understanding of the structure, size and evolution of the global arms industry.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Vamsee » 28 Jan 2020 01:42

(Only part of this report is available for non-premium users. But looks like they are struggling with engine technology)
--Vamsee
========================

Chinese military jet engine production plans exposed

Turning to the data unveiled, no more than five WS15 jet engines, which power the J-20 stealth fighter, will be produced annually from 2020-26. The data also listed a lower-end conservative production rate of three engines per annum if the target of five cannot be attained.

This will mean the J-20 will have to continue relying on Russian Saturn AL-31F M2 engines for the foreseeable future.

The same production figures of five units yearly apply to WS15 engines for the FC-31 export-oriented fighter.

Moving to larger aircraft, the WS18 engine is an indigenous powerplant for the H-6K bomber and Y-20 transport aircraft. Significantly, the filing revealed that R&D had run into serious difficulties, and progress is partially suspended while the company develops new materials and alloys for it.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Vivek K » 28 Jan 2020 02:23

brar_w wrote:
Indranil wrote:Chinese penetration into the defence markets of African, South American and South east Asian countries is grossly underestimated. 8000 Mig-21s and nearly 3000 F-5s have retired or at the brink of retirement. How many countries have the wherewithal to replace them with $100-$300 million fighter jets?



$100-$300 Million aircraft aren't the only game in town, and neither are just new fighters. There are plenty of designs at a much lower cost (and capability) across the various needs. Yes manyof them are Chinese, but there are also Russian, European, South Korean and even the US with both new and used aircraft..Chinese aircraft (and not just manned) will likely pick up orders here and so will others..but that doesn't really compete with the T-7. The T-7 program will likely produce upwards of 700 aircraft over its lifetime but very little of those export orders will be in direct competition with Chinese aircraft..these will mostly be with nations who want the highest end capability currently available, and an aircraft to flex experienced pilots on. When a combat version of it is created..it will likely be for those who operate other western systems, operate the trainer and want a combat variant, or who want to integrate with western (US/NATO etc) systems but can't afford higher end fighters.

By not allowing local MIC to come up - India will be a non-player in this large market where LCA light (perhaps with Kaveri), IJT, HTT-40 could have grabbed some sales.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rony » 02 Feb 2020 20:32

Raytheon engineer arrested for taking US missile defense secrets to China

When Wei Sun, a 48-year-old engineer at Raytheon Missile Systems, left for an overseas trip last year, he told the company he planned to bring his company-issued HP EliteBook 840 laptop along. Sun, a Chinese-born American citizen, had been working at Raytheon, the fourth-largest US defense contractor, for a decade. He held a secret-level security clearance and worked on highly sensitive missile programs used by the US military.

The country’s security services have already compromised dozens of crucial US weapons systems, such as the Army’s Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) ballistic missile defense system, and the Aegis ballistic missile defense system used by the Navy. In 2018, Chinese hackers stole top-secret plans for a supersonic anti-ship missile being developed by the Navy known as Sea Dragon. The intruders reportedly managed to get massive amounts of sensitive signals and sensor data, in addition to the Navy’s entire electronic warfare library.

The weapons with which Sun worked are “pretty much top-of-the-line American systems,” according to Dean Cheng, a fellow at the Heritage Foundation who studies China’s military capabilities.

The AMRAAM, or Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile, is used on US fighter jets like the F-16 and F-22 to destroy other aircraft before they can be seen by anything but radar. It has also been converted into a ground-based air defense system, which may have been Sun’s focus, since prosecutors describe his work as centered on ballistic missile defense.

The documents also say Raytheon employees will provide testimony about the Stinger missile, a “man-portable” air-defense missile that can be fired by troops on the ground, made most famous when the US supplied it to Afghan warlords fighting against occupying Soviet troops.

Perhaps most significant is Sun’s involvement with the Redesigned Kill Vehicle (RKV) program, an effort to replace the interceptor used by US air defense systems to shoot down incoming ballistic missiles.

The Pentagon cancelled the program last year because of technical problems, but information about the project would still be useful to China to understand what the US might do to defend from conventional or nuclear missiles. Missile technology has become central to Beijing’s strategy to deter US power in the Pacific, making up for deficiencies and a lack of experience with weapons systems like jet fighters.

China would be eager to learn how to defeat the missiles by understanding the technical details of how they find their targets with radar and other sensors, and how they respond to attempts to jam or distract them, Cheng told Quartz.

China already has its own equivalents of these weapons, so it’s not necessarily seeking to copy US technology. However, as one example, China’s advanced air-to-air missile has never been used in combat, while the AMRAAM has, so its design may offer lessons that China’s defense industrial base has yet to learn.

Cheng said this is “one piece of the larger Chinese espionage picture…we tend to focus on Chinese cyber [but] they have human intelligence, they have people trying to steal examples of it in other countries as well.”

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 02 Feb 2020 22:23

To create an industry in a field that is monopolized by the West and Russia, you need to:

Cheat, lie, steal and, most importantly, spend money.

Article on how the extra $16B invested by Cheen in 2013 finally gave them a viable engine industry today.

The GE CEO once said something like this "The engine business is easy, you just need to invest billions decade after decade after decade like we have."

Money and perserverance.

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htproc/20200128.aspx


Procurement: China Finally Masters Jet Engines

January 28, 2020: Back in 2013 China announced that it was investing $16 billion in an effort to fix some of its problems encountered manufacturing high-performance (as in world-class) jet engines. Although China has been working on this for over three decades, continued problems with materials durability, efficient design and quality control have prevented Chinese engines from being competitive with Western models. That large investment appears to have paid off because by 2019 all new Chinese jet fighters were entering service with one of several variants of the WS10 engine.

The WS10 engine has been in development for 30 years so that it could eventually replace Russian AL31F engines used in the Russian Su-27/30 and Chinese clone (J-10/11/15/16) jet fighters. WS10 development efforts encountered one problem after another. Many Chinese engineers considered the WS10 design a superior engine to the AL31F, even though the WS10 copied a lot of Russian technology. The Chinese point out that as delivered from Russia, the AL31 is good for 900 hours of operation. Chinese engineers figured out how to tweak the design of the engine so that it lasted for 1,500 hours. While those tweaks worked on paper, the Chinese were frequently frustrated getting them to work as predicted because their Chinese suppliers could not produce key components to the needed level of quality and durability. Some of those recently invested billions were apparently spent on getting component suppliers to upgrade production techniques and product quality so that this weak link in the supply chain was no longer stalling full-scale production of the WS10.

After 2000 China believed it would be free from dependence on Russia for military jet engines within the next five years. By 2010 it was clear that the “within five years” expectations were not happening and that was a major reason for the additional $16 billion investment. The fundamental problem was that Russia and the nations that set the world standard in military high-tech had developed high-tech infrastructures. While Chinese designers could come up with superior (on paper) designs, the technical skills required to manufacture components and fabricate the actual device were not sufficiently developed to make the Chinese designs work as intended. You needed skilled and experienced workers and managers to get it all right. Within five years China fixed that problem, mainly because many component manufacturers were close to the goal already with the extra money and attention getting them the rest of the way, and able to produce complex components to spec and do it regularly.

Now there are at least seven variants of the WS10 being used in five different Chinese jet fighters. This includes the new J-20 stealth fighter where the WS10 is a placeholder engine until the more powerful WS15 shows up in five or six years. That is one reason why the J-20 is not being produced in large numbers yet.

China recently received some Russian Su-35 jet fighters and their advanced Al041F1 (or 117S) engines. This purchase was made, in part, to get a close look at the high-end tech the Russians have mastered (with some difficulty) to make this engine work. China has long copied foreign technology, not always successfully. Since 2000 China has gradually put more and more money into developing a jet engine manufacturing capability. The Chinese encountered many of the same problems the Russians did when developing their own engine design and component construction skills and that two decades of escalating efforts paid off.

China does have several advantages over Russia in this effort. First, they knew of the mistakes the Russians had made, and so were able to avoid many of them. Then there was the fact that China had better access to Western manufacturing technology (both legally and illegally). Finally, China was, unlike the Soviets, able to develop their engine manufacturing capabilities in a market economy. This was much more efficient than the command economy that the Soviets were saddled with for seven decades. Despite all this, China continued to encounter problems with consistent quality in manufacturing key components. China has overcome those problems and mastered Russian engine building techniques. Now they are slowly expanding the rate of production while moving to eventually surpass the Western firms who have long been the masters of this technology.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 03 Feb 2020 19:40

Chini engine firms are keeping alive projects on their own? The WS-13 was junked by the Pakis for the JF-17 and nothing in the current PLAAF fleet uses a medium engine but Guizhou is coming back with an uprated version for the FC-31 and JF-17 new blocks. The net result is multiple engine programs in parallel that reduce risk for chini fighter projects.

An uprated WS-10 is the interim engine for the J-20 before the WS-15. An uprated WS-13 could be the interim engine for J-31 and the JF-17 Blk 3 before WS-19.

https://www.china-arms.com/2020/01/ws-13ipe-for-fc-31/#more-1288


WS-13IPE engine for FC-31 carrier-based fighter could be mass-produced in 2020

Posted on January 26, 2020 by buffalo

Guizhou Liyang Aero Engine Co., Ltd. affiliated to China Aviation Engine Corporation posted the company’s key tasks in 2020 recently, one of which is the implementation of small-batch production of a new aircraft engine.

The outside world generally believes that this new engine is probably WS-13IPE (thrust-enhanced type), which mainly adds thrust on the basis of WS-13 engine in order to adapt to performance upgrade and improvement of fighters.

However, Liyang company did not abandon WS-13 in this regard, and continued to improve and increase the engine’s thrust. Liyang company believed that JF-17 Block-III fighters would undergo major changes, and will use new equipment such as source phased array radar and integrated electronic warfare systems. And the weight of the aircraft would definitely increase significantly compared to the first and second batches. So the need for a larger thrust engine is an opportunity for WS-13 engine.

FC-31 fighter was originally planned to use a fourth-generation homemade turbofan engine, but this engine has just been developed, and it will take some time for the design to be finalized and mass-produced.

Liyang company decided to improve the thrust of the WS-13 engine as a transition for FC-31 fighter. The WS-13IPE thrust- enhanced engine adopts a relatively conservative scheme and retains the original four-stage fan, but the blades are swept forward to delay the airflow separation. This increases the fan speed and allows the engine to take in more air, thereby increasing the engine thrust.

After the improvement, the thrust of WS-13IPE engine could be over 9 tons, which can be used for JF-17 Block-III and can also meet the initial needs of JC-31 stealth fighters, especially if JC-31 is chosen as the carrier-based fighter, which would need engines with a higher thrust to carry its increased weight.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2020 01:25

Before getting takleef over the number of Chinese aircraft carrier builds....

https://twitter.com/bennedose/status/12 ... 25728?s=20 ----> I spoke to Admiral @sudhirpillai_in

He recalled an anecdote. A Chinese navy man asked "How long does it take to ready a naval carrier?"
Answer was like: "You can build a carrier in 2 years. Training personnel 5 years. Developing credible carrier ops: 25 years"

We must not lose this!

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2020 01:27

https://twitter.com/sudhirpillai_in/sta ... 49216?s=20 ----> That question was asked by Admiral Wu Shengli, then Cdr PLA Navy in a visit to Mumbai and Mysore in Nov 2008. In Jan 2009, as we exited Gulf of Aden, PLA Navy sailed in and have maintained a growing presence ever since. Their major investments since: aircraft carriers...

https://twitter.com/JaggiBedi/status/12 ... 86688?s=20 ---> They are quick learners. Had hosted Admiral Wu Shengli during his visit to WNC in 2008. Big accompanying delegation comprised mostly naval pilots with single purpose to learn all about carrier flying. Visited Viraat too. Totally focussed and ready to imbibe knowledge.

https://twitter.com/subnut/status/12188 ... 56226?s=20 ----> Agree. As Eastern Fleet Commander, I visited Shanghai in September 2000 with ships & interacted/exercised with PLAN. IMO, very focused, pragmatic & ready to learn.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 04 Feb 2020 01:59

^^^ Admiral, from what I read they scrounged all over for ideas on carrier ops. Aside from India, Russia (of course) with the SU-33 but also Brazil of all places.

As a sidenote, training with Brazil means the chinis would have some familiarity with catapult launches as the Sao Paulo was a CATOBAR.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a25260/brazil-retiring-only-aircraft-carrier/

Brazil was a mentor to China's fledgling carrier program—in 2009, Brazil agreed to train Chinese navy officers on the São Paulo. In 2013, according to the Xinhua state media service, a cadre of Brazilian Navy carrier pilots were training China's People's Liberation Army Navy in carrier flight operations.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby IndraD » 04 Feb 2020 03:37

https://twitter.com/avarakai/status/122 ... 06983?s=20
Rumour on SM, from Chinese, is that PLA has done a coup & taken over from Xi. Hence, Xi missing for 5th straight day. PROBABLY, this is the reason, why PLA was deployed to manage supplies

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 13 Feb 2020 23:30

Four newly confirmed Y-20A serials spotted in Wuhan.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1227900748282855429


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Quite interesting, including the altogether 6 Y-20As, which participated the medical relief mission to Wuhan airport today, there were four so far not clearly confirmed Y-20As, namely the numbers 09 & 10 from the 10th TD and the first two numbers 20041 & 20042 from the 13th TD:

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Looks like the type is being used extensively in Wuhan:

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 16 Feb 2020 10:52

Cheen is bringing in a lot of PLA medics and nurses to the frontline in the virus fight in Wuhan.

You know what? I feel a wee bit proud of them as a follow Asian. Many of them will get sick. Probably more than a few of them will die. Once they get this thing under control, their labor and sacrifices will be swept under the rug like the young doctor who died trying to warn the country. Their sh1tty government will try to attribute the "victory" to Pooh Xi. But it would make their sacrifices no less real.

They did a great job with the Y-20 too. It looks like beast. Like the C-17 in fact ...
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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 17 Feb 2020 19:42

More from the operation to Wuhan.

Y-20, IL-76 and Y-9. Blue camo looks like airforce/naval personnel as opposed to the mostly brown army ones.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Avinandan » 17 Feb 2020 23:48

The last pic is drool worthy ...

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby kit » 19 Feb 2020 05:19

https://www.janes.com/article/94373/china-testing-hypersonic-weapon-with-intercontinental-range-says-usnorthcom-commander

China is testing an intercontinental-range hypersonic glide vehicle (HGV), according to written testimony submitted to the US Senate Armed Services Committee on 13 February 2020 by US Air Force General Terrence J O’Shaughnessy, commander of US Northern Command (USNORTHCOM) and of North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD).

Although Gen O’Shaughnessy did not identify any specific weapon programme – saying only that the weapon “is designed to fly at high speeds and low altitudes, thus “complicating” the US ability to provide “precise warning” – he was likely referring to a weapon different from the DF-17 HGV-carrying ballistic missile that was exhibited at China’s National Day Parade on 1st October 2019 in Beijing.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby brar_w » 19 Feb 2020 05:32

This was expected. While Russia will largely focus its BGV on strategic IC/IR systems, and the US will focus on mostly tactical-conventional MR/IR systems, the Chinese have the will and the resources to do it across the spectrum including tactical and strategic systems at all operational ranges. Given the wide gap between the strategic systems between them and the US and Russia, it would be wise for them to just seek a qualitative advantage and not bother about numerical parity. This way they can keep on avoiding joining an arms-control-treaty, with Russia and US, citing numerical inferiority.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 19 Feb 2020 20:07

^^^ They have used a minimum nuke strategy since the collapse of the USSR. They don't want to end up the same way.

The PRC has more industrial capacity than the USSR wver did but decides to spend on nuke powerplants, six lane highways and HSR because bombs are economic deadweight. Suits a very mercantile race.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 19 Feb 2020 20:54

Their MIC is getting back online.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HenriKenhmann/status/1229832692394414081


East Pendulum
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·
20h
Les usines en Chine reprennent progressivement à la production. Le premier appareil sorti de la chaîne de SAC à Hanzhong et à commencer les essais en vol est un AWACS KJ-500 dédié à l'armée de l'air chinoise.

-------- Google Translate --------

Factories in China are gradually resuming production. The first aircraft released from the SAC chain in Hanzhong and to begin flight testing is an AWACS KJ-500 dedicated to the Chinese Air Force.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Rakesh » 21 Feb 2020 23:19

https://twitter.com/IndoPac_Info/status ... 80128?s=20 ----> Coronavirus hits the Chinese Navy. The Type 054A Changzhou frigate, with a crew of about 165 ,has been placed on lockdown as military admit outbreak fears. Captain Yu Song Qiu and a number of his men are under quarantine.

https://twitter.com/IndoPac_Info/status ... 99168?s=20 ----> The vessel is a 4,053 tonne frigate armed with missiles, torpedoes, rockets and a three inch gun. Military brass have insisted despite the quarantine everything remains “stable and organised”.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 22 Feb 2020 19:18

It looks like their entire MIC was knocked down for close to two months. One would have thought the critical frontline programs like the Y-20 and J-15 would have continued even under war conditions. But these reports are they are coming back online just now onlee.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HenriKenhmann/status/1231165192546873346

East Pendulum
@HenriKenhmann
Le 21 Février, XAC a livré son premier Y-20 de l'année 2020 à l'armée chinoise. La production est reprise progressivement un peu partout en Chine.

------------Google Translate-------------

On February 21, XAC delivered its first Y-20 of 2020 to the Chinese military. Production is gradually being resumed almost everywhere in China.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1231130918242394113

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Finally confirmed officially by AVIC/SAC new J-15s (Batch 03) are being produced. In contrast to previous batches they have a green primer. The text says: "resuming production, full steam ahead...", confirming previous rumors that a new production line is operating for some time.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby NRao » 22 Feb 2020 20:32


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby Kartik » 26 Feb 2020 06:03

Shenyang resumes production of carrier borne J-15 fighters

Images released on 21 February in an announcement by the Shenyang Aircraft Company (SAC), a subsidiary of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), indicate that the manufacturer has resumed production of its carrier-borne J-15 multirole fighter aircraft.

The images, the publication of which comes about three months after the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) commissioned its second aircraft carrier, Shandong , show at least one J-15 painted in green primer - suggesting that the aircraft is part of a new batch - and technicians working on the platform at what appears to be a factory.

Although the SAC announcement does not specifically mention the J-15, the aircraft type can be identified by its shape and canards. The images also feature a short text, stating, among other things, "full resumption of production".

It is unclear, however, when the images were taken and whether the new J-15s will be different in any way from the ones currently in service with the PLAN on the service's first aircraft carrier, Liaoning .

That said, the technicians are wearing surgical masks presumably as protection against the Covid-19 coronavirus, indicating the images were taken relatively recently.

Since 2012 the J-15, which is a Sukhoi Su-33 derivative, has been the PLAN's sole fixed-wing carrier-borne aircraft. Only 24 of these aircraft had been delivered to the PLAN in two batches before production was apparently halted in mid-2017.

At least two J-15s have so far been lost and two more have been damaged, meaning that fewer than 20 of these aircraft are believed to currently be available for the PLAN's two carriers as well as for training. The additional aircraft will most likely be used to set up a second carrier-based air wing to be assigned to Shandong .


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 26 Feb 2020 07:01

Chinis began tanker and AWACS variants of the Y-20.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HenriKenhmann/status/1231928913116295170

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L'un des premiers pilotes de Y-20 confirme dans un interview télévisé qu'il existe au moins 2 variantes pour cet avion de transport militaire - la version ravitailleur, et la version AWACS. Il indique également que le Y-20 ravitailleur rejoindra bientôt l'armée de l'air chinoise.

----------- Google translate -----------

One of the first Y-20 pilots confirmed in a TV interview that there are at least 2 variants for this military transport aircraft - the tanker version, and the AWACS version. It also indicates that the Y-20 tanker will soon join the Chinese Air Force.


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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby chola » 26 Feb 2020 07:16

Kartik wrote:Shenyang resumes production of carrier borne J-15 fighters


It is unclear, however, when the images were taken and whether the new J-15s will be different in any way from the ones currently in service with the PLAN on the service's first aircraft carrier, Liaoning .

That said, the technicians are wearing surgical masks presumably as protection against the Covid-19 coronavirus, indicating the images were taken relatively recently.

Since 2012 the J-15, which is a Sukhoi Su-33 derivative, has been the PLAN's sole fixed-wing carrier-borne aircraft. Only 24 of these aircraft had been delivered to the PLAN in two batches before production was apparently halted in mid-2017.

At least two J-15s have so far been lost and two more have been damaged, meaning that fewer than 20 of these aircraft are believed to currently be available for the PLAN's two carriers as well as for training. The additional aircraft will most likely be used to set up a second carrier-based air wing to be assigned to Shandong .



We've seen picture evidence of 24 J-15s in the watchers community. You can see links to the photos of these individual aircraft here:
http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/gallery-i.html?m=1

But that doesn't mean that there are/were only 24. The latest pictures showed new batch machines that are outside (thus completed from an assembly standpoint) so it looks like the line had been operating for a while. There are multiple prototypes too -- including possibly two J-15T(?) with towbar for cat launches. We've seen multiple J-15s lined in front of catapults at their naval test facilities. The STOBAR models serving on the ex-varyag can't be catapulted. There are also twin-seat and Growler prototypes.

It is a pretty active program and whatever its faults, the PLAN is stuck with it for at least another decade.

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Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Postby tandav » 28 Feb 2020 09:31

Chinese Naval Vessels have the ability to deny airspace around them to human operated aircraft via military laser called dazzlers. How these affect opto electronics is an open question.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/27/poli ... index.html


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