Army strikes terror camps in PoK

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
brvarsh
BRFite
Posts: 193
Joined: 03 Mar 2011 20:29

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby brvarsh » 02 Oct 2016 08:43

Realistically what are the chances of Pakistan retaliating?
1. Pakistan told its people Indian surgical strike did not happen. How would they justify an open strike against India?
2. All eyes are on India and Pakistan. If Pakistani Army retaliates that India deliberately did not touch (unless they came on their way) a direct action will implicate them as supporters of Terror that they hide behind Moral support BS.
3. Would they risk another 26/11 type attack risking someone get caught and spill beans again only this time caught with their pants down?
4. They could do Pathankot and Uri type targeted attack by Militants on defense targets - But haven't we learned anything yet? Wouldn't we have a greater chance now eliminating them right when they enter?

In any case wouldn't India's counter political offensive be much more stronger if Modi's government is spending its time to work with American and other countries to apprise them of a Pakistani attack and how that retaliation can directly be associated to India's plea of declaring them a Terrorist state?

salaam
BRFite
Posts: 304
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby salaam » 02 Oct 2016 09:08

brvarsh wrote:Realistically what are the chances of Pakistan retaliating?

Pretty high. Will be really surprised if they do overt action though.

brvarsh wrote:In any case wouldn't India's counter political offensive be much more stronger if Modi's government is spending its time to work with American and other countries to apprise them of a Pakistani attack and how that retaliation can directly be associated to India's plea of declaring them a Terrorist state?

- why do you think India hasn't done/doing diplomatic offensive?
- retaliation if it happens will be directly associated by default. India need not worry atleast on that matter.
- India should declare them a terrorist state before asking others.

vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6046
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby vina » 02 Oct 2016 09:17

The Pakis have been ferrying the "international media" to the sites in PoK where they interview 'locals" and others and claim that nothing happened, that the Indian Army did not cross and that everything is normal. Today's NY Times has an article.

So, it is quite certain that the reaction will be via the usual proxies. The Paki Army is not going to send people in uniform to act.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16834
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Rahul M » 02 Oct 2016 09:19

brvarsh wrote:Realistically what are the chances of Pakistan retaliating?...

ZERO

the chances of pak attacking us again in some way are however 100%, just like it has been since it took up terrorism as a state policy 30 odd years ago.
an attack like that is NOT retaliation, because it would have happened irrespective of whether IA struck those camps or not. that is just the TSP state going about its regular business.

calling any future paki attack as retaliation for the strikes across PoK is not just wrong, it is simply playing the narrative the "talks are the only way" brigade wants us to play, causing fear paralysis about paki response and making us an easy target for their babrbarism.

rajpa
BRFite
Posts: 302
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 09:35
Location: Chennai

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby rajpa » 02 Oct 2016 09:38

vina wrote:The Pakis have been ferrying the "international media" to the sites in PoK where they interview 'locals" and others and claim that nothing happened, that the Indian Army did not cross and that everything is normal. Today's NY Times has an article.

So, it is quite certain that the reaction will be via the usual proxies. The Paki Army is not going to send people in uniform to act.


The journos were most likely ferried to some other sleepy hamlets. Wonder who is making the Paki military spokesman Shameless Bajao do these spineless nataks.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11617
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby A_Gupta » 02 Oct 2016 09:51

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/world ... world&_r=0

MANDHOLE, Kashmir — The sound of gunfire awoke Malik Rustam and his family around 4 a.m. on Thursday. Within minutes, they headed for cover in a community bunker, as residents here in the Pakistani-controlled portion of Kashmir have been trained to do.

Cross-border fire between Pakistani and Indian troops is nothing new, but on Thursday, the Indian military claimed it had carried out “surgical strikes” against four camps, including one near Mandhole, used by militants intent on attacking the Indian-controlled portion of Kashmir.

The village of Mandhole is along the banks of the Poonch River, just across the Line of Control, the de facto border between Pakistan and India in the disputed Kashmir region, which both sides claim in its entirety. Indian military posts within 500 yards are visible.

On Saturday, Mr. Rustam, 22, pointed in that direction and said the Indian troops never left their posts. “They are lying,” he said. “They never crossed the L.O.C.” A group of villagers standing nearby nodded in agreement.

As the latest escalation between India and Pakistan threatened to break the fragile peace between the estranged, nuclear-armed neighbors, residents in Mandhole seemed unusually calm.

Schools have remained open. Grocery stores were serving customers, and buses moved slowly on patchy, winding roads along the hilly terrain. As the afternoon sun sank behind the hills, several women could be seen working in the fields, cutting grass and herding cattle.

Pakistan seemed eager to play down any tensions in the area. Mr. Rustam and his fellow villagers had gathered on Saturday to talk to a group of journalists who were ferried in by Pakistani military helicopters to the Bhimber District of the Pakistani-controlled part of Kashmir, about 100 miles from Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital.


Earlier Saturday, Pakistani military officers, including Lt. Gen. Asim Saleem Bajwa, the Pakistan Army spokesman, gave a briefing in Baghsar, a picturesque, hilly village about 60 miles from Mandhole. Pakistani officials said Thursday that the weapons fire had killed two soldiers and wounded nine. General Bajwa reiterated Pakistan’s claims that Indian troops had fired only small arms and mortars at Pakistani military posts.

Indian troops opened fire at 2 a.m. on Thursday at five locations over an area spanning 155 miles, he said. The gunfire lasted about five hours, but the Indian troops never crossed the Line of Control, and Pakistani troops returned fire.

India said that it had destroyed bases from which militants carried out attacks in the part of Kashmir it controls, and that it had inflicted heavy casualties on the militants. General Bajwa rejected those claims.


“Where did all the dead bodies go?” he asked. “Where were the funerals? Why haven’t the Indians produced any dead bodies if they took them back?”

“Where is the damage?” General Bajwa said of India’s claims of “surgical strikes,” adding that he welcomed an independent inquiry. “Our side is open to the United Nations observers and journalists.”


General Haider said the claims were “totally incomprehensible,” adding, “A surgical strike took place against us, and we were not even aware of it?”

Brig. Furqan Moazzam, a brigade commander, echoed his fellow officers when asked how residents were coping with the aftermath of the border clashes. “The valley is right in front of you,” he said, pointing to the vast area. “Life is going on normally.”

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Raja Bose » 02 Oct 2016 09:57

India is like the Sikh fella who made a smooching sound and slapped the Paki every time the train passed thru a dark tunnel. :mrgreen:

Bheeshma
BRFite
Posts: 592
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 22:01

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Bheeshma » 02 Oct 2016 09:59

Pakis are desperately trying to save H&D. I hope some images are released. No need to give out much.

ssundar
BRFite
Posts: 652
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 02:33

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby ssundar » 02 Oct 2016 10:00

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/world/asia/kashmir-pakistan-india.html?ref=world&_r=0

Pakistan seemed eager to play down any tensions in the area. Mr. Rustam and his fellow villagers had gathered on Saturday to talk to a group of journalists who were ferried in by Pakistani military helicopters to the Bhimber District of the Pakistani-controlled part of Kashmir, about 100 miles from Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital.



I do not see the need to ready any further. Clueless western journalists never realize (or admit) that they've been had when the Paki military flies or drives them around with escorts and "villagers" voluntarily talk to them in the presence of those escorts.

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3732
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby hnair » 02 Oct 2016 10:03

Rahul M wrote:calling any future paki attack as retaliation for the strikes across PoK is not just wrong, it is simply playing the narrative the "talks are the only way" brigade wants us to play, causing fear paralysis about paki response and making us an easy target for their babrbarism.


well said! This irrational fear among the pre-GenX, stemming from an odd "what about that miandad sixer at Sharjah?" logic is sad. Miandad is a clownish oaf who got lucky and is now better known as Dawood Ibrahim's slave. India has moved on and the younger gen has been thrashing the pakis day in and day out, as even that gasbag musharaf had to admit. But the pathetic fear among a few Indians still stands.

"Pakis attack, we do not retaliate, due to diminishing returns" has been the only way this has been going on for a long time. That has changed to "Pakis attack, we teach them a lesson"

williams
BRFite
Posts: 379
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 20:55

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby williams » 02 Oct 2016 10:10

New mantra in the retarded MSM. "Don't escalate by gloating about the strike". "Is there a way to de-escalate and then talk". "Give Pakistan space to save face and H&D" I still don't understand what is this obsession in Indian MSM about Paki H&D and talking to Pakis?

Bheeshma
BRFite
Posts: 592
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 22:01

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Bheeshma » 02 Oct 2016 10:27

This is the time to escalate. Hit them in baluchistan , PoK and elsewhere.

aditya
BRFite
Posts: 144
Joined: 18 Dec 2005 03:15
Location: Sub-sector Jingopura

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby aditya » 02 Oct 2016 10:58

Bad news. Terroristan now denies knowledge about "captured" Indian soldier whose grandmother died of shock at the news (she brought him up after his parents died).

So MIA rather than PoW after all. Painful to even speculate on his fate. More #SurgicalStrikes needed on this sick jihadi organization.

http://hindustantimes.com/india-news/pa ... CqqeK.html

Christopher Sidor
BRFite
Posts: 1435
Joined: 13 Jul 2010 11:02

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Christopher Sidor » 02 Oct 2016 11:29

shiv wrote:
What can India do?
1. We have to help Pakistan become a threat to the world before the world wakes up and stops helping them. Jihad in Pakistan is important for everyone and unstoppable
2. We really really must be ready to nuke them out of existence and get hurt in the process
3. People who don't like the idea need to come up with much better ideas by getting out of denial and imagining that Pakistan is somehow peace loving and moderate. The moderates such as existed are being squeezed out
4. Educated Indians are not doing enough reading about Pakistan, but talking too much about personal experiences with individuals or small groups of Pakistanis.


+1
What our countrymen do not realise is that longer Pakistan survives longer it bleeds us. Yes we have to take a step to eliminate it and it will have a cost. the step will be elimination of Pakistan as a viable entity. It also allows us to concentrate on the East and the North from where we will have to fight our 2nd Sino-Indian war in which we need to give a bloody nose to PLA, PLAAF and PRC. Take back our lost Northern Ladakh territories and restore Independence to Tibet plus East Turkestan.

rajpa
BRFite
Posts: 302
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 09:35
Location: Chennai

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby rajpa » 02 Oct 2016 11:31

They must have "tried" to make him admit some bullcrap and failed at that.

LokeshC
BRFite
Posts: 696
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 04:36

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby LokeshC » 02 Oct 2016 11:45

I hope this is returned in kind 20x times as well.

pushkar.bhat
BRFite
Posts: 276
Joined: 29 Mar 2008 19:27
Location: prêt à monter dans le Arihant
Contact:

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby pushkar.bhat » 02 Oct 2016 11:55

Here is my quick assessment of the raids and what could follow:
- The number of 30-40 KIA on the Pakistani side is a reasonable number for a raid on launch pads. That will be approx 5-7 per launch pad. very reasonable and believeable number.
- If the number is more than 40 and any multiple of it. Maroof Raza says nearly 70 and heard another report that claimed that our boys killed close to 100 terrorists and support assets then this is a decapitating strike of monumental proportions. It usually took between 100-120 of foreign and kashmiri boys to keep the valley on the boil. Thats a year's worth of output from their schools.
- The pakistani's are in a bind. If they claim that the cross border transgression happened then they will be under domestic pressure to retaliate. If they continue on their line that the Indian's are telling a lie, then they cannot retaliate and their H&D is lost. Also India has tested the sub-conventional threshold and knows that it can use it to punish pakistan at a point & time of its choice.
- At the same time any retaliation by using "Surgical Strikes" by BAT's will expose them as state sponsors of terrorism. It will also draw more direct action towards them and this time over it will not be towards their non-state actors but rather to PA and its para-military elements.
- Most important I was happy to see that the Ghataks of the Bihar and Dogra's were involved. The paltan's izzat has been restored. The deaths from Uri have been avenged. More power to them.
- Lastly, the number of deaths in Uri were pure bad luck. The boys were in arctic tents. Reports indicate that there was deisel refilling underway when the attacks happened. Just like in pathankot most of the dead were not combat deaths. Infact they were unfortunatley caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Had some of these elements not come together the Uri attack would have had a lower death toll and the story would have been a different one.

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1625
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 02 Oct 2016 12:14

hnair wrote:
Rahul M wrote:calling any future paki attack as retaliation for the strikes across PoK is not just wrong, it is simply playing the narrative the "talks are the only way" brigade wants us to play, causing fear paralysis about paki response and making us an easy target for their babrbarism.


well said! This irrational fear among the pre-GenX, stemming from an odd "what about that miandad sixer at Sharjah?" logic is sad. Miandad is a clownish oaf who got lucky and is now better known as Dawood Ibrahim's slave. India has moved on and the younger gen has been thrashing the pakis day in and day out, as even that gasbag musharaf had to admit. But the pathetic fear among a few Indians still stands.

"Pakis attack, we do not retaliate, due to diminishing returns" has been the only way this has been going on for a long time. That has changed to "Pakis attack, we teach them a lesson"


Absolutely. Even on BR some people are asking idiotic questions about retaliation. Come one guys dont play into the enemy hands.

kedariprasad
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 28
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby kedariprasad » 02 Oct 2016 12:39

Neela wrote:Keep pulling em chaddis of our libbie retards.


Image


one more great Moulani medha patkar, says is not the right way to take revenge on Pakistan.


Detailed news in Marathi
http://www.loksatta.com/mumbai-news/soc ... e-1311755/

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2120
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby manjgu » 02 Oct 2016 12:46

!@Sidor .... ghanta fight with PLAAF...independence for tibet... we cant properly handle a entity 1/7 of our size. first destroy Pak then do this talk... Jai HInd

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Singha » 02 Oct 2016 12:52

Image

Image

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Singha » 02 Oct 2016 12:52

note the Yuan notes on the bed.

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7044
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby IndraD » 02 Oct 2016 12:57

Deleted
Last edited by IndraD on 02 Oct 2016 14:39, edited 1 time in total.

vaibhav.n
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 575
Joined: 23 Mar 2010 21:47

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby vaibhav.n » 02 Oct 2016 13:23

FWIW. Just got confirmation.

Enemy casualty count ( especially irregulars) is very high most likely double that of officially released figures. These figures will also include non-combatants ie. guides and tanzeems admin and ideological staff at enemy FDL.

There is still terror concentration happening as by 15th Oct, snowfall will close passes. The enemy is in a bind as more infiltration could invite more raids or otherwise will be a tough winter for those terrorists already in the hinterlands who want to be replaced.

Bheeshma
BRFite
Posts: 592
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 22:01

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Bheeshma » 02 Oct 2016 13:26

Why cant we test garuthma from MKI and launch a fewat the camps in PoK and KP? Raids should exclusively target PA and their families.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Singha » 02 Oct 2016 13:37

India today reports 300 jihadis from camps either fled home after the raids or were moved back to safer madrasas in the hinterland.

In think the Intifada in kashmir is over this year..one swift slap and the local separatists are also sulking in their corner.

M_Joshi
BRFite
Posts: 139
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:06

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby M_Joshi » 02 Oct 2016 13:39

partha wrote:
Neshant wrote:should have used the helicopter gunships.

a few bursts would have cleaned things up.

if you're going to do strikes, do it well.

How do you know it was not used? Don't take statements from GoI ministers at face value. Some of them are deliberately misleading. We don't know anything other than the fact that surgical strikes were done.



DGMO said in his presser that few pigs were captured alive & have confessed & their statements recorded. IMO it's highly likely that the SF guys were the ones who must have captured them as they were the ones who went into the deeper launch pads. So Helis might have been used to ferry them back with the captured pigs at the last moment. It wouldn't take more than few minutes to go in at a predetermined location inside PoK & come back. Plus, as per official stance helis were on standby, so we know that at the least they were part of the operation but needn't be used, or they might have been...

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2120
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby manjgu » 02 Oct 2016 13:46

i am confident few of them are in custody...reading AL koran and praying and singing...

SaraLax
BRFite
Posts: 502
Joined: 01 Nov 2005 21:15
Location: redemption land

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby SaraLax » 02 Oct 2016 13:52

Singha wrote:note the Yuan notes on the bed.


Yep - the income earned for the service given to Cheenies by the PAKIs ... nice pink colored upper-body inner-wear of the PAKIs ..cast away on the side of the bed !!.

More similar witty cartoons can be seen at following twitter link : @ManojKureel

I hope we will soon have an exhibition of Kureel's numerous witty cartoons in a Museum. Maybe we can invite the PAKI Ambassador to India to grace that occasion as the Chief Guest and open that exhibition.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3399
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Aditya G » 02 Oct 2016 13:55

Josy Joseph on previous raids across LoC. He is trying to trivializing Surgical Strike 2016. Political direction of this raid has transformed it from a tactical one to a strategic one.... makes all the difference.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 175008.ece

On February 27, 2000, as Pakistani troops opened heavy fire on Indian positions in the Nowshera sector, a group of terrorists sneaked across into the Indian side. They struck on Ashoka Listening Post, killed seven soldiers, and severed the head of one of them to take back as trophy. When the news became public, outrage was instant.

The Pakistani media reported the incident with a twist, saying the cross-border raid was led by Ilyas Kashmiri, a veteran terrorist of Afghanistan operations, to take revenge for an Indian Army raid on a Pakistani village called Lonjot in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. According to those reports, Indian commandos raided the village on February 25, 2000, spent the entire night there, and killed 14 civilians. The Ilyas Kashmiri-led operation by the Pakistani terrorists came a day later. The then Pakistan ruler, General Pervez Musharraf, congratulated the team led by Kashmiri, the reports said.

Such stories of cross-border raids, many of them never verified or admitted by the Armies, have not been uncommon along the 740-km Line of Control for decades, especially since the Kashmir insurgency flared up in the late 1980s, say Army veterans. The only difference this time is that the Narendra Modi government has decided to go public with a surgical strike, they say.

Targeting terrorists

According to veteran para commandos, they have regularly undertaken cross-border raids in the 1990s and up until the ceasefire along the LoC was declared in 2003. “It was far too common, but our targets were always the Army or terrorists, not innocent villagers,” says a retired Para Special Forces officer.

The retired officer, who has himself taken part in some of those operations before the Kargil conflict of 1999, said the targets were often Army posts or militant hideouts. “There was a large number of terrorist launch pads those days. Often, the targets could be some small military posts, or their patrols,” he said.

Former 15 Corps GOC Lieutenant-General Syed Ata Hasnain says such raids were “routine” before the 2003 ceasefire along the LoC came into being. “It was mostly response from our side to action by the other side. The targets used to be patrols, logistics detachments, listening posts, etc.,” he told The Hindu .

After 2003, such cross-border raids almost ceased, but resumed sometime in 2007-08, say Army sources. The new wave of cross-border actions peaked with the beheading of Lance Naik Hemraj on January 8, 2013.

Pakistan, which actively seeks to internationalise Kashmir issue, has repeatedly filed complaints with the United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP) accusing the Indian Army of doing cross-border operations.

Those complaints have accused the Indian troops of decapitating at least a dozen Pakistani soldiers and killing at least 30 of its citizens in raids across the border since 1998.

The Indian Army does not file any such complaints with the UNMOGIP, but it emerged when Hemraj was beheaded that there have been at least three other instances of beheading of Indian soldiers in over a decade before that incident by the Pakistani troops.

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3399
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Aditya G » 02 Oct 2016 14:11

This piece immediately day after the strikes by Sujan Dutta has many details which others missed:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160930/j ... _DFx_mAOko

THE BRIEF AND THE EXECUTION

The three-point brief given to the Indian Army

Objective: Cause maximum casualties to terrorists and their handlers
Result: India says “significant casualties” to terrorists and their supporters

Objective: Surprise and shock must for insertion, execution and extrication with no or minimum damage to own forces; no Indian soldier to be left behind
Result: Indian sources say Pakistani troops were “caught napping”. Pakistan says 2 soldiers died and nine wounded. India said in the evening one soldier was caught by the Pakistani Army after he “inadvertently” crossed over

Objective: Special Forces detachments must execute plan in co-ordination with the infantry battalions manning the LoC
Result: Accomplished, say Indian sources

New Delhi, Sept. 29: Commandos of the Indian Army with shoulder-fired flamethrowers and plastic explosives crossed the Line of Control in the early hours today and raided at least five "terrorist launch pads" in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, officials and sources here said.

The "surgical strikes" inflicted "significant casualties to terrorists and those trying to support them", the Indian Army said. The terrorists were aiming to carry out "strikes in Jammu and Kashmir and in various metros", the army added.

....

Today's "surgical strikes" were in reprisal for the September 18 killings of Indian soldiers in Uri. It effectively marks a return to a situation described as "no war, no peace". But neither India nor Pakistan has formally called off the ceasefire on the LoC that was agreed in 2003.

...

This is not the first time that Indian forces have carried out a raid like this. It is the first time, however, that the Indian government has formally claimed to have hit "terrorist launch pads" across the LoC with "surgical strikes".

Sources in the Indian Army and veterans said such cross-LoC strikes had been conducted many times in the past. But they were localised, "tactical" moves that were not publicised. For instance, in 2013, after two Indian soldiers were mutilated, the then army chief, Gen. Bikram Singh, had said a tactical response was given. {Do we have this quote?}

In announcing the "surgical strikes" through a rare joint media read-out by the external affairs ministry and the army Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) this afternoon, the Narendra Modi government has raised what was a tactical measure to a strategic level. Such a move means actions on the LoC will now be treated as factors of national, not local Kashmiri, import. {Exactly}

...

Indian officials said they had enough evidence to assess the damage/attrition caused by the raids. It will be made public depending on the environment that will follow as a consequence of the Indian actions.

The action peaked between 3am and 4.30am, according to officials in the know of operations. The Indian commandos "exfiltrated" and were back in their home bases - their own "launch pads" in Indian territory - between 7 and 9 this morning.

Prime Minister Modi was informed at 9am. The DGMO talked to his counterpart in Pakistan on a telephone hotline at 11am and informed him about the Indian action.

The Indian Special Forces teams were asked to move to staging posts yesterday afternoon. Special Forces commandos of the 4 and 9 para - in the actions on Wednesday-Thursday night - were involved.

They were supported by " ghatak" (assault) platoons of infantry battalions that man the LoC in sectors across three divisions of the army headquartered in Rajouri, Baramulla and Kupwara. Uri is in the area of the Baramulla division. The frontage opposite which the raids took place spans Nowgam as well.

The officials said there were three non-fatal casualties among Indian troops that were caused "not by terrorists" but because of obstacles.

One soldier was injured because of a mine blast. The LoC has been heavily mined on both sides by the Indian and Pakistani armies through the decades. The mining goes back so long that nature and the elements have shifted the explosives buried in the ground to the extent that neither side can claim to have exact maps of their minefields, a task of army engineers (sappers).

The details that have been shared so far by sources in the army and those monitoring the operations are that teams of Special Forces had begun rehearsing raids since September 18. The actual timing of the operations was left to the northern army commander, Lt Gen. D.S. Hooda, and field commanders. The Special Forces are specially tasked for insertion and extrication from enemy territory.

The sources said "we caught them napping", when asked about the opposition they faced. Understandably, the Special Forces teams did not exit from the same routes through which they entered.

Some of the teams were helilifted from their bases to army camps within the Indian side of the LoC. No helicopter flew over the LoC with troops. The teams then used nullahs (narrow valleys) to sneak to the suspected terror launch pads.

"We chose a time during which people are vulnerable," said an official. The Pakistani troops were caught off guard despite the state of high alert on both sides of the LoC, the official said. The special teams then used plastic explosives with delayed charges and/or flamethrowers to blow up and/or burn the suspected terror camps, the official added.

The insertion of the troops began shortly after midnight. The action peaked across four areas identified as Tatapani or Hotspring, across the Indian sector of Mendhar, Lipa Valley, across the Indian sector of Nowgam, Bimbhar, across the Indian subsector of Bimbhar Gali, and Kel, across the Indian sector Machhil, between 3am and 4.30am.

"The actual assault probably took less than 90 minutes," the official said.

"They (the commandos) went up to shallow but significant depths," he said. He refused to define the distances to which the commando teams infiltrated but said the launch pads are usually between 1km and 3km from the LoC and are tactically placed between penny-packet posts of Pakistan's forward-deployed battalions.

"They (the Pakistani troops and the militants) did not know where we had come from and where we were exiting from. We have given them a clear-cut signal that our objective was the terrorists and their handlers," the official said. The last bit is designed to illustrate that the commandos deliberately chose not to attack Pakistani army positions.

Both the Indian and Pakistani armies are well aware of each other's posts nearly all along the LoC and are often literally eyeball to eyeball. Each side has mapped the other in great detail and has fine-tuned those maps through the 65-year stand-off on what used to be the ceasefire line that is called the LoC.

"Plans of the SF (Special Forces) were intimately coordinated with troops manning the LoC and the local ghatak platoons were incorporated," said the official.

The timing of the operation was chosen after the army received information (intelligence) that militants were assembling at the launch pads.

"During the exfiltration (of the commandos), the Pakistanis carried out intense ceasefire violations nearly all along the LoC, to which we responded appropriately," the official said.


Image

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3399
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Aditya G » 02 Oct 2016 14:14

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 170281.ece

Over a dozen terrorist launch pads exist along the Line of Control, but they are not the ones housing most of the terrorists undergoing training in Pakistan.

The Army operation targeted eight of those launch pads, but not the terrorist training camps deep inside Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, said reliable sources. They imply that at best the Army may have succeeded in wiping out a group of terrorists wanting to cross over into Kashmir, but not dramatically reduced the ability of terror groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed to target India.

Army sources estimate that up to 40 terrorists were killed in the raids on Thursday morning.

Infiltration at night

According to the most reliable estimates, there are about 12 launch pads along the LoC regularly used by terror groups. These are manned by one or two members of the terror groups permanently.

Whenever a group of militants are to cross the LoC into India, they reach the launch pad and stay there for a few hours, or at best a day. They infiltrate usually on dark nights, avoiding moon-lit ones, and are led across by guides. “The militants do not stay for more than a day or so in these pads,” one official explained.

According to officials, these facilities have undergone significant transformation in recent years, especially as far as who administers them.

“Until 2008 or so, each of these pads were run by low-level ISI officials, but towards the end of General [Pervez] Musharraf’s regime that changed,” one of them said.

Presently, these launch pads are run by the terror groups themselves.

According to Army sources, at least three of these pads were fully destroyed in the surgical strikes on Thursday.

“They are small premises, or houses taken on rent from locals. Their destruction wouldn’t adversely impact the terror infrastructure,” says a former intelligence official.

In contrast to the launch pads, it is in terrorist training camps, which are far from the LoC, that most of the militants are housed. Until a few years ago, Indian intelligence agencies believed that there are 42 such camps.

However, this figure has been revised to 17. “That is the most credible estimate,” one source said.

Of the camps, the biggest is operated near Muzaffarabad in a locality called Dulai by the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

According to evidence gathered by Indian agencies, this camp could be housing anywhere between 30 and 50 terrorists at any given point of time.

“It would be too risky for India to plan a Special Force raid on a terrorist training camp deep inside. Raids on launch pads have been part of our operations in the past too,” says a former Para Commando.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16834
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Rahul M » 02 Oct 2016 14:30

IndraD wrote:And now....Yogi Adityanath of BJP is backing Salmsn Khan over not to ban Paki artists!

these are political news that have no place in this thread.

Amoghvarsha
BRFite
Posts: 245
Joined: 18 Aug 2016 12:56

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Amoghvarsha » 02 Oct 2016 14:49

As soon as the present US administration will retire,the exact damages on Pakiland will be in their books.

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7044
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby IndraD » 02 Oct 2016 14:50

Deleted saar! ^





mummy mummy mujhe bachao... :mrgreen:
There’s a real danger that Modi may be tempted to take further reckless action. [this itself means even Paki media thinks surgical strikes happened]
There’s a real danger that as frustration at the failure of threats and bluster mounts in India, and Kashmiri protests continue, Modi may be tempted to take further reckless action. There are signs that India has been planning over the past few months for the possibility of a conflict with Pakistan. It would be wise for Pakistan to warn the world, including the Security Council, of the dangers of such adventurism. Islamabad should demonstrate, in part through its deployments, its readiness to respond to such Indian aggression.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1287408/modis-war

Downhill skiing by Paki generals
The Pakistan Army said on Saturday that escalation and provocation was not in anyone’s interest as it launched a media blitzkrieg to challenge Indian claim of having conducted surgical strikes in Azad Kashmir to neutralise alleged “terrorism launch pads”. http://www.dawn.com/news/1287481/escala ... -says-army

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Lalmohan » 02 Oct 2016 15:35

i wonder if in the briefing to the 22 foreign diplomats - images and footage was shown that will not be released to the media? :-)

rajpa
BRFite
Posts: 302
Joined: 04 Aug 2004 09:35
Location: Chennai

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby rajpa » 02 Oct 2016 15:50

Most certainly. All this nautanki by the TSPA is laughable and unbecoming of a so called professional army.

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Lalmohan » 02 Oct 2016 16:20

nautanki is to pour cold water on the rising mardangi of the faithfools so that TSPA doesn't actually have to do anything

halfpig syed will have to be calmed... perhaps a year's free pass to red lips is in the offing, maybe even a trip to head office branch in shanghai

its fine - nothing happened, there are no terrorists, there was no raid... next time india will do what needs to be done and no one need worry

Amoghvarsha
BRFite
Posts: 245
Joined: 18 Aug 2016 12:56

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby Amoghvarsha » 02 Oct 2016 16:35

Lalmohan wrote:i wonder if in the briefing to the 22 foreign diplomats - images and footage was shown that will not be released to the media? :-)


Most Likely.It will all slowly trickle out over the next few weeks to months.Right now everyone wants to avoid embarassing the Paki Army.

anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8279
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Postby anupmisra » 02 Oct 2016 16:44

aditya wrote:Bad news. Terroristan now denies knowledge about "captured" Indian soldier whose grandmother died of shock at the news (she brought him up after his parents died).


Maleeha Lodhi, paki rep to the UN, had confirmed the capture of an Indian soldier on September 30. Can she deny that statement?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... in-kashmir


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chinmay, Kakarat, sbangera and 53 guests