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'Make in India' Single engined fighter

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 14 Mar 2017 17:18

Viv S wrote:
Austin wrote:Really , Undetected in Enemy Airspace , How ?

What part exactly are you not getting? Enemy airspace /= 'over Beijing'. But unlike the Rafale or Su-34, the F-35 was designed from inception as a VLO fighter. For deep strike missions, it doesn't have any peers, aside from (to some extent) the F-22.


Hmm , These are just unproven claims

How many times did F-35 flew over Beijing undetected and how does it back up such claim that it can flying undetected in Enemy Airspace and loiter to gather intelligence.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Viv S » 14 Mar 2017 19:01

Austin wrote:Hmm , These are just unproven claims

How many times did F-35 flew over Beijing undetected and how does it back up such claim that it can flying undetected in Enemy Airspace and loiter to gather intelligence.

Who said it flew over Beijing undetected? What did you think was the purpose of the LO airframe?

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 14 Mar 2017 19:34

Viv S wrote:You made this Claim of F-35

The most important role played by an F-35-type aircraft is an ISR asset. It can loiter undetected in enemy airspace Enemy airspace /= 'over Beijing'


You made the above claim , All I said is prove it if F-35 can loiter undetected over Beijing Airspace Undetected

What it would mean is an F-35 would fly more than 2500 km tp Beijing from NE Airbase undetected , Loiter over it , gather intelligence and return back undetected

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Chinmay » 14 Mar 2017 20:31

There's a typo in Viv's post Austin. I think he meant 'Enemy airspace =/= Beijing' :)

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rakesh » 14 Mar 2017 20:53

srai wrote:
SaiK wrote:Nothing less than JSF now is valid (capability wise) for a single engined fighter

That is probably the IAF's plan all along. In any major Indian procurement involving many billions of dollars with ToT and license production and competitive bidding, that is a 10-year process at the minimum. Anyone thinks otherwise is a fool. If the IAF asks for a single-engine fighter now (similar to what the IN is doing), then 10+ years from now when the bureaucracy finally signs the deal the IAF/IN will get a JSF.

Don't ask what will happen to the AMCA when that occurs ...


Why The F-35 Is The iPhone Of Fighter Aircraft
http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/13/why-t ... -aircraft/

“Those three qualities don’t exist in a fourth-gen platform,” said Berke.

Berke would know, as he has also flown some of the most famous fourth-generation fighter aircraft, including the F-18 and F-16.

“The F-35, it’s light years beyond anything we already have,” said Berke. “The only way I know that is I flew F-18s, F-16s, F-22s and F-35s operationally for 23 years, that’s how I know that.”

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rakesh » 14 Mar 2017 20:55

ldev wrote:Fortunately, Chinese media have announced that the J20 has entered service with the PLAAF. Even if it does not have it's full capability as of now, it is this future PLAAF capability that the IAF will confront. This should sharpen some minds in the Indian MOD and the IAF as to what capability the IAF needs circa 2050.

How good is a F-Solah going to be against a J20 now? What is the F-Solah's survivability against a J20, in 15 years from now?

The F-35 will give the Chinese pause. And the Chinese need to get a moment of pause.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 14 Mar 2017 21:08

Chinmay wrote:There's a typo in Viv's post Austin. I think he meant 'Enemy airspace =/= Beijing' :)


Yes Sir that is what I wanted to know how can F-35 fly 2000+ km to Beijing airspace, loiter gather intelligence and come back all without getting detected.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Viv S » 14 Mar 2017 21:09

Austin wrote:You made the above claim , All I said is prove it if F-35 can loiter undetected over Beijing Airspace Undetected

=/= : Not equal to.

Enemy airspace starts at your border. Practically speaking, 300-400 km is about all the penetrative depth that is possible in well defended airspace. Which is still far more than the Rafale or Su-30 or F-15E or F-16V are capable of. They'll start showing up on radar screens, (esp. on KJ-2000/3000 units) a long way off.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 14 Mar 2017 21:22

You said Enemy airspace /= 'over Beijing' and loiter over it , that is what I am wondering how it can travel as far as 2000 km + loiter undetected and return back.

Even then even if it is 300-400 km inside enemy airspace and loiter undetected that would be interesting considering the enemy may be employing multiband radar , I dont disagree that Rafale or F-16 might get detected as well.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rakesh » 14 Mar 2017 21:59

OPINION: India needs fighters more than factories
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-434306/

Local workshare is not all bad, and highly skilled aerospace jobs are the delight of politicians globally. That said, New Delhi appears to place far too much emphasis on the industrial value of buying fighter aircraft, rather than the military purpose of their acquisition.

Strategic imperatives cannot be comprised for the sake of economic benefit.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Indranil » 14 Mar 2017 23:37

What a convoluted logic? Where do aircrafts come from? Factories or trees or eggs?

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Viv S » 15 Mar 2017 00:56

Austin wrote:You said Enemy airspace /= 'over Beijing' and loiter over it , that is what I am wondering how it can travel as far as 2000 km + loiter undetected and return back.

/=, !=, ~= : "not equal to".

Even then even if it is 300-400 km inside enemy airspace and loiter undetected that would be interesting considering the enemy may be employing multiband radar , I dont disagree that Rafale or F-16 might get detected as well.

The Rafale or F-16 with their dirty payloads will always be detected at far far longer ranges than the F-35. Why is precisely why every major air force (with the possible exception of the Luftwaffe, for now*) is investing in LO fighter designs including Russia & China.


*The GAF is studying clean-sheet designs for a Tornado replacement but will probably end up operating the F-35A as well.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Kakkaji » 15 Mar 2017 01:13

With both Ashton Carter and Manohar Parrikar gone, I think the F-16 proposal will die a natural death.

IMHO, buy a few squadrons of F-35 off-the-shelf for the IAF and IN, junk the FGFA, and put all the money in LCA Mk1A and then AMCA. Fill any technology gaps through offsets.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cybaru » 15 Mar 2017 01:24

Put a FACO line, it might help with some insights and perhaps we may find something of usefulness to use in AMCA.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby ShauryaT » 15 Mar 2017 07:23

I will pray for the Tejas.

F-16s, Made in India
Why Second Best Is Best By S. Paul Kapur and Sumit Ganguly

India is in the market for a new fighter plane—actually, about 200 new fighter planes. The country's fleet of MiG 21s is aging and increasingly prone to accidents, so it is seeking a replacement capable of air superiority and ground-attack missions. Initial reports suggested that the indigenously produced Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) might play this role. The Tejas, however, has been plagued with problems; a government investigation identified 53 design flaws, including underpowered engines, excess weight, poor maneuverability, lack of fuel capacity, underperforming radar, and maintenance shortcomings. Thus, despite a development process spanning more than 30 years, the Tejas remains unfit for combat duty. A Tejas Mark II will supposedly address many of the first edition’s shortcomings, but flight testing is not expected to commence until late 2018.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby shiv » 15 Mar 2017 08:07

Rakesh wrote:Why The F-35 Is The iPhone Of Fighter Aircraft

That means:
1. It is too expensive in India
2. Not as useful as Android phones
3. New and even more expensive iterations will come out every year to try and make you jealous of the guy who gets that first
4. Your American relatives will flaunt them but you won't be able to tell the difference from your Samsung
5. You can't understand why your American relatives make it a point to say that they had version X last year but have version X+1 this year
6. The charger will fail and cost a bomb to replace and there will be no local alternatives available

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Vishal Jolapara » 15 Mar 2017 13:00

Angad's post on his flight in the Gripen: http://www.zone5aviation.com/2017/03/14 ... 39-gripen/

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Philip » 15 Mar 2017 13:13

Shiv,hilarious! The most important point you listed .We simply can't afford it.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Manish_P » 15 Mar 2017 15:01

shiv wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Why The F-35 Is The iPhone Of Fighter Aircraft

That means:
1. It is too expensive in India
2. Not as useful as Android phones
3. New and even more expensive iterations will come out every year to try and make you jealous of the guy who gets that first
4. Your American relatives will flaunt them but you won't be able to tell the difference from your Samsung
5. You can't understand why your American relatives make it a point to say that they had version X last year but have version X+1 this year
6. The charger will fail and cost a bomb to replace and there will be no local alternatives available


7. China will promptly make a copy of it claiming at least 50% the capability at only 10% of the price

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Singha » 15 Mar 2017 15:08

:rotfl:
8. very expensive accessories and repair costs - repair center will ask you pay 50% and get a new iphone than try to repair
9. beautiful glass & metal chassis but fragile if put to rough use
10. locked garden ecosystem of weapons and apps - for everything you need to go via iTunes virus app and obey the true Mahdi
11. only authorized mahdi certified outlets can open the phone for a steep fee, else all service contracts are void.
12. processor is proprietary and mahdi owns it. no parts are allowed to be made locally. all must be designed in palo alto and made in shenzhen. each part will have RFID tags and markers to weed out and punish unworthy fakes and replacements.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby SaiK » 15 Mar 2017 22:02

I think our stealth designs should be futuristic that doesn't compromise on aerodynamics. It should never be "shape science" to deflect radar signatures the primary motto of stealth designs. There are other ways that the khans might not have looked into where India can spear ahead. Other than the radar, which we are taking help from the Israelis, there is no other need to consider a single engined fighter just for the heck of showing off 'hamara paas JSF jaisa fighter hai'. What is and where is our ASQR on this need? Why would not AMCA specifications be told clear, as to what is the requirement for single-engined fighter.

I think this a non-starter and time-pass mUngphalE thread

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby brar_w » 15 Mar 2017 22:20

SaiK wrote:I think our stealth designs should be futuristic that doesn't compromise on aerodynamics. It should never be "shape science" to deflect radar signatures the primary motto of stealth designs


Aircraft are designed around a set of requirements. Things like signature, range, payload, speed, agility, cost etc etc. Both the F-22A and F-35 are supersonic, 9G capable fighters designed around performance requirements which were very in line with their mission and/or the aircraft and missions they are replacing. If you allowed the designers to trade performance for signature (i.e tailor the requirements to prioritize signature as opposed to a balanced approach), your fighter will look something like This and not like the shapes we see currently. This may well happen in the future but only once 'enablers' allow for those trades to be made.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby NRao » 15 Mar 2017 22:44

SaiK wrote:I think our stealth designs should be futuristic that doesn't compromise on aerodynamics. It should never be "shape science" to deflect radar signatures the primary motto of stealth designs.


A lot in those two sentecnes. But, in short (in addition to Brar post), ALL that will be only as good as the computational power India possess at a given point in time (this is clearly a varying factor)

In stealth, "shape" is a big factor, but so are the material used to make the skin (there is a huge diff between "composite"s), Tolerances in manufacturing (as an example: LCA I think uses around 80 microns, F-35 at 1 micron). Then there are umpteen other tech factors that round out the "stealth" craft.

There are other ways that the khans might not have looked into where India can spear ahead. Other than the radar, which we are taking help from the Israelis, there is no other need to consider a single engined fighter just for the heck of showing off 'hamara paas JSF jaisa fighter hai'. What is and where is our ASQR on this need? Why would not AMCA specifications be told clear, as to what is the requirement for single-engined fighter.


The IAF and IN had subscribed to the AMCA in 2008 or so. And they have been working together with the ADA.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Cybaru » 15 Mar 2017 23:02

NRao wrote: ALL that will be only as good as the computational power India possess at a given point in time (this is clearly a varying factor)


What does that mean?

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby NRao » 16 Mar 2017 07:19

Very interesting article.

Parrikar’s exit puts question mark over defence ‘strategic partners’ model

FinMin and PMO opposed it. Parrikar was the only one to support the SP model!! AJ would shelve it.

Bottom line for SE:

However, shelving of the strategic partnership concept is not likely to impact the domestic defence industry while for foreign firms it may mean greater ease of doing business as they will have greater flexibility to choose partners for joint venture.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby abhik » 16 Mar 2017 07:58

shiv wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Why The F-35 Is The iPhone Of Fighter Aircraft

That means:
1. It is too expensive in India
2. Not as useful as Android phones
3. New and even more expensive iterations will come out every year to try and make you jealous of the guy who gets that first
4. Your American relatives will flaunt them but you won't be able to tell the difference from your Samsung
5. You can't understand why your American relatives make it a point to say that they had version X last year but have version X+1 this year
6. The charger will fail and cost a bomb to replace and there will be no local alternatives available

But but but what to do, we prefer apple onlee. Which is why apple is moving it assembly line for their 3 generation old phone to India just like LM is going to move it's last generation fighter assembly line.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby NRao » 16 Mar 2017 09:46

THE topic, debated on BR, about buying from abroad, etc.

Indigenisation: Challenges & Way Ahead for Indian Air Force



Indigenous Product Development: Make in India


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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2017 10:40

in stealth arena i think what india needs asap is not a f22/jsf style fighter with good performance and stealth, but a ELO manned or unmanned platform with the B2 / B21 requirements of sacrificing speed and raw aerodynamics for ELO signature and decent weapons payload. if you recall the original AMCA design studies from 10 yrs ago had no tails and subsonic speed for this reason - LO was being given prime billing. over time the goalpost seems to have shifted to try something like the JSF - a jack of all trades, specialist in none.

this B2ski in concert with GLCM/brahmos can be used to target the IADS in Tibet/TSP , permitting normal a.c to operate more safely.

the rest of world still lacks a answer or rival to the B2 technology, with the PAKDA being only shaped up now...while B21 is in works to leapfrog.

having 50 platinum core door kickers is a must, rest can follow like AMCA . perhaps the AURA ucav is meant to fulfill these week1 deep strike roles.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Philip » 16 Mar 2017 11:35

Look,JSFs,F-22s,FGFAs,etc. are all "sports cars",costing an arm and two legs,plus v.susceptible to sustained ground fire. They cannot do the equiv. of the "milk run","door delivery" of munitions onto the battlefield by humbler vehicles where Johnny Jawan desires it so. For that,one needs the equiv. of an old dented Amby,that can take whatever sh*t the ruts and potholes and off-roading comes as standard fare. This SE farce,has a fatal flaw,that in its very name "single-engined". Isn't the humble twin-engined Jag been serving us quite well for decades,is small,v.cheap,can fend off attackers with its new over-wing launched Mica AAMs,and carry a warload of 4,500kg to boot with a v.reasonable radius of action,more than the MIG-21s.

Now the venerable MIG-21 was the clear winner in the '71 war against the Lockheed Starfighter ("missile with a man in it") and even in the Vietnam War,shot down far more F-4 Phantoms and F-105s than its own losses.The ratio was almost 2 F-4s for every MIG-21 loss. Now that gives us a lot to chew upon. We need replacement for the hundreds of this small,agile,v.capable cheap dogfighter which had a secondary role of GA.MIG-27s dedicated to the GA role. MIG-27s are heavily armoured to absorb the variety of ground fire that greets it. This is why the equally venerable SU-25s and A-10s have been doing yeoman work in the MEast wars.
Ideally,had the LCA arrived in style,and in full flight production-wise,we wouldn't be needing this thread,but we are because the bride is at least a decade late!

Therefore the task must be to find the best cost-effective solution u,by increasing numbers of existing resources/assets ,before looking for a new bird which will need a whole new "settlement" and its huge costs,before it can begin operations. The Jag was amazingly only $8M a pop in 2008! Even if you double the cost,one would get 7-8 Jags for the cost of just one JSF!! With the IAF set to possess over 300MKIs,all to be upgraded to "Super-Sukhoi" std,another 150+ MIG-29 UGs/M2k UGs/Rafales,giving us 450 heavy and med. fighters,the rest (around 350-400) could be a mix of LCAs, new upgraded Jags and any light/med. sized fighter around $40M.Don't forget that (hopefully) FGFAs and AMCAs will also start becoming part of the fleet post 2020.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Viv S » 16 Mar 2017 14:43

Philip wrote:Look,JSFs,F-22s,FGFAs,etc. are all "sports cars",costing an arm and two legs,plus v.susceptible to sustained ground fire. They cannot do the equiv. of the "milk run","door delivery" of munitions onto the battlefield by humbler vehicles where Johnny Jawan desires it so. For that,one needs the equiv. of an old dented Amby,that can take whatever sh*t the ruts and potholes and off-roading comes as standard fare. This SE farce,has a fatal flaw,that in its very name "single-engined". Isn't the humble twin-engined Jag been serving us quite well for decades,is small,v.cheap,can fend off attackers with its new over-wing launched Mica AAMs,and carry a warload of 4,500kg to boot with a v.reasonable radius of action,more than the MIG-21s.

Will you please give up this nonsensical argument? The Jaguar went out of production 10 years ago. It cannot be revived over the short term. Period.

We have a cheap locally-designed multi-role aircraft that can be inducted in numbers. Its called the Tejas. Unlike the resurrection of the long dead Jaguar line, ramping up the Tejas production is a perfectly feasible venture.

Don't forget that (hopefully) FGFAs and AMCAs will also start becoming part of the fleet post 2020.

Please do go ahead and forget that. The FGFA will only come by 2025 and will likely come with a range of bugs and serviceability issues that require addressing. The AMCA will become a part of the fleet no earlier than 2035.
Last edited by Viv S on 16 Mar 2017 15:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rishi Verma » 16 Mar 2017 15:18

Austin wrote:
Viv S wrote:What part exactly are you not getting? Enemy airspace /= 'over Beijing'. But unlike the Rafale or Su-34, the F-35 was designed from inception as a VLO fighter. For deep strike missions, it doesn't have any peers, aside from (to some extent) the F-22.


Hmm , These are just unproven claims

How many times did F-35 flew over Beijing undetected and how does it back up such claim that it can flying undetected in Enemy Airspace and loiter to gather intelligence.


This is just a rhetorical question. if the F-35 flew over Beijing 190 times "undetected", nobody can say it did or didn't, because it wasn't detected!

But American technology and claims have more credibility than Russian claims.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby brar_w » 16 Mar 2017 15:36

The F-35 won't be flying over Beijing undetected. That is neither its mission nor how it is likely to be deployed.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Philip » 16 Mar 2017 15:55

There are over 120 Jags to be upgraded. Planned. Dedicating a couple of sqds for the GA role,by relieving the two sqds of their maritime strike role, is very doable. This is because once BMos is integrated onto MKIs and later when BMos-M arrives, MKIs,MIG-29UGs,M2Ks and Rafales too could possible carry the missile,giving a quantum leap in striking power ,range,etc.than lowly Jags equipped with sub-sonic ASMs.
THis is again because all 120+ are to be upgraded which will require huge spares/component requirements to sustain the aircraft for at least 2 decades,what is the great difficulty in restarting production of new ones when even brand new engines are being fitted?

Why,there are some from time to time in the US who advocate restarting F-22 production! The US Congress tasked the USAF to study the cost,feasibility,etc. of the same.And back in the USSR..sorry Russia,There is talk of reopening the Blackjack line. China wants to reopen the AN-124 line with the UKR. A completely brand new facility in Russia is now manufacturing IL-76-90s,transports,tankers and EW variants,completely new upgraded aircraft,which was once built only in Tashkent. In fact a certain country called India has just ordered two more for its AWACS Phalcon bird. So please think outside the box.Where there's will there's a way.

The issue is not building Jags instead of LCAs. LCA production is abysmal and even with the second line,one has to wait and see if the magical 16/yr will be built by HAL.The key point which you missed is that the Jags are the cheapest aircraft that we can build.The LCAs ,far more sophisticated,will cost us between $25-30M. Now that we do not want armed Hawks,because of the scandal reg. commissions,we could instead go in for an alternative light attack combat trainer aircraft like the Yak-130 instead of the Jags,even cheaper.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Viv S » 16 Mar 2017 17:25

Philip wrote:There are over 120 Jags to be upgraded. Planned. Dedicating a couple of sqds for the GA role,by relieving the two sqds of their maritime strike role, is very doable. This is because once BMos is integrated onto MKIs and later when BMos-M arrives, MKIs,MIG-29UGs,M2Ks and Rafales too could possible carry the missile,giving a quantum leap in striking power ,range,etc.than lowly Jags equipped with sub-sonic ASMs.

Lets get the facts straight first. There's only one squadron of Jaguar IMs in the IAF consisting of only 12 aircraft. They are not 'dedicated maritime' aircraft, they are multi-role aircraft that will carry out routine strike missions in wartime in addition to anti-shipping missions. The Brahmos-M will in all likelihood enter service around 2030, around the same time as when the Mirages, MiG-29s & Jaguars start retiring.

None of which has any relation to restarting the Jaguar production, so I assume it was written as a deflection.

THis is again because all 120+ are to be upgraded which will require huge spares/component requirements to sustain the aircraft for at least 2 decades,what is the great difficulty in restarting production of new ones when even brand new engines are being fitted?

Re-engining, upgrades or consumables production is very very different from aircraft production.

Why,there are some from time to time in the US who advocate restarting F-22 production! The US Congress tasked the USAF to study the cost,feasibility,etc. of the same.

And what pray tell did the study say? Keep in mind, when the F-22 program would wound up, it was still the most they put in contingency plans to restart production if necessary. The documentation was preserved and tooling carefully stored. None of which applies to the Jaguar.

And back in the USSR..sorry Russia,There is talk of reopening the Blackjack line. China wants to reopen the AN-124 line with the UKR. A completely brand new facility in Russia is now manufacturing IL-76-90s,transports,tankers and EW variants,completely new upgraded aircraft,which was once built only in Tashkent. In fact a certain country called India has just ordered two more for its AWACS Phalcon bird. So please think outside the box.Where there's will there's a way.

Thinking outside the box is different from living in La La Land. The Russians have sizeable orders for transport aircraft that do NOT undergo obsolescence in the same manner as fighter aircraft.

The issue is not building Jags instead of LCAs. LCA production is abysmal and even with the second line,one has to wait and see if the magical 16/yr will be built by HAL.The key point which you missed is that the Jags are the cheapest aircraft that we can build.The LCAs ,far more sophisticated,will cost us between $25-30M.

LCA production is 'abysmal' so lets invest in vaporware instead? The Jaguar is cheapest based on what? Why isn't the MiG-27 the cheapest aircraft we can build? Or MiG-21? Or maybe the Gnat? All are equally meaningless proposals since the cost of rebuilding the infrastructure and long supply chains that feed into it, is up in the air.

Austin
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 16 Mar 2017 21:10

Rishi Verma wrote:
Austin wrote:
Hmm , These are just unproven claims

How many times did F-35 flew over Beijing undetected and how does it back up such claim that it can flying undetected in Enemy Airspace and loiter to gather intelligence.


This is just a rhetorical question. if the F-35 flew over Beijing 190 times "undetected", nobody can say it did or didn't, because it wasn't detected!

But American technology and claims have more credibility than Russian claims.


Ok fine lets say the Russians are zero credibility and Americans has super duper credebility.

Even then there is no stealth aircraft that can fly over undetected carefree even over Bangladesh Airspace much less any other more capable nation , Flying Undetected is just a myth.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Rishi Verma » 16 Mar 2017 21:26

You are cleverly mixing technical discussion with fog-of-war discussion. If a certain aircraft has a tiny radar signature, yes technically it can be detected in a controlled lab environment but does stealth give you an advantage over conventional aircraft in a real war.. There is no question it does. Now you will say but at what price, and that Russian planes cost less...

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Austin » 16 Mar 2017 21:36

Rishi Verma wrote:You are cleverly mixing technical discussion with fog-of-war discussion. If a certain aircraft has a tiny radar signature, yes technically it can be detected in a controlled lab environment but does stealth give you an advantage over conventional aircraft in a real war.. There is no question it does. Now you will say but at what price, and that Russian planes cost less...


You see even Radar technology has evolved like Stealth technology and war is far more complex topic , We have yet to see any war with an equal adversary with more or less equal capability to make any conclusion in stealth or counter stealth capability of each other.

For eg look at our own Radar Capability that we have and will have in near future , look our our AD system and the range of system we are deploying , These are very radically different we had in 80' 90's. A lot of what we deploy and will do so offeres a very comprehence counter Stealth capability and mobile systems.

There were wars in past where Stealth did well or even had its down fall but those were with very unequal adversary.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby NRao » 16 Mar 2017 21:48

self deleted.
Last edited by NRao on 17 Mar 2017 01:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby NRao » 16 Mar 2017 21:57

A point to note.
Last edited by NRao on 17 Mar 2017 02:11, edited 1 time in total.

Indranil
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Re: 'Make in India' Single engined fighter

Postby Indranil » 16 Mar 2017 22:42

How much do those things matter in actual combat is still a big question mark. The F-15s had a problem seeing the Mig-21s. They did the RCS testing of full scale LCA. It is has RCS far below that of Mig-21. So ....


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